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Post by venceremos on Jan 20, 2019 17:02:38 GMT 1
Putting aside our obvious differences on this, I came across a report that should alarm even the most hardened brexiteer.
Bart De Strooper is Belgian and heads the UK Dementia Research Institute. This was set up in 2016 with £250m funding and aims to make the UK a world leader in dementia research. He says he now faces two major problems, recruitment and funding.
The Institute has 250 researchers and hopes to reach 700, but it's becoming hard to recruit the talented foreign scientists needed because they see the UK as anti-European and anti-international. The Home Office does little to help, refusing without explanation to grant visas to well paid foreign scientific experts seeking to attend seminars here. It seems we're happy for any footballers to come here, but not scientists.
The UK has done well in attracting EU funding for scientific research. Between 2007-13, the UK paid €5.4bn towards R&D activities in the EU but received €8.8bn in EU grants for research projects carried out in the UK. This would certainly end with a no deal brexit. A major source of scientific funding would be lost and, as the UK government is forecast to have lower revenues, it would be unable to make up for the loss.
Our dementia research programme would stall, other countries would take the lead and we'd lose the chance of earlier improved treatments and the economic benefits of the medications we might otherwise discover.
This isn't intended to be an anti-brexit rant. I just don't believe any of us would want this outcome. Sometimes the arguments get too emotional and irrational but there are real consequences like this that mustn't be ignored in the general debate. If there's to be a no deal brexit, at least ask those pushing for it how they would deal with a problem like this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2019 17:18:35 GMT 1
Yes, there's lot's of stuff like this out there to discover and read out, that isn't talked about in the press.
I mentioned back in '16 about the impact on education and training leaving the EU would have when the European Social Fund money is withdrawn.
I remember the Shropshire Tenor talking about he effect on academic research and the sharing of resources during the ref debate.
But, the debate wasn't about that and what you posted, it was about taking back control and suchlike.
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Post by shrewder on Jan 20, 2019 17:23:04 GMT 1
Putting aside our obvious differences on this, I came across a report that should alarm even the most hardened brexiteer. Bart De Strooper is Belgian and heads the UK Dementia Research Institute. This was set up in 2016 with £250m funding and aims to make the UK a world leader in dementia research. He says he now faces two major problems, recruitment and funding. The Institute has 250 researchers and hopes to reach 700, but it's becoming hard to recruit the talented foreign scientists needed because they see the UK as anti-European and anti-international. The Home Office does little to help, refusing without explanation to grant visas to well paid foreign scientific experts seeking to attend seminars here. It seems we're happy for any footballers to come here, but not scientists. The UK has done well in attracting EU funding for scientific research. Between 2007-13, the UK paid €5.4bn towards R&D activities in the EU but received €8.8bn in EU grants for research projects carried out in the UK. This would certainly end with a no deal brexit. A major source of scientific funding would be lost and, as the UK government is forecast to have lower revenues, it would be unable to make up for the loss. Our dementia research programme would stall, other countries would take the lead and we'd lose the chance of earlier improved treatments and the economic benefits of the medications we might otherwise discover. This isn't intended to be an anti-brexit rant. I just don't believe any of us would want this outcome. Sometimes the arguments get too emotional and irrational but there are real consequences like this that mustn't be ignored in the general debate. If there's to be a no deal brexit, at least ask those pushing for it how they would deal with a problem like this.
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Post by shrewder on Jan 20, 2019 17:27:21 GMT 1
Putting aside our obvious differences on this, I came across a report that should alarm even the most hardened brexiteer. Bart De Strooper is Belgian and heads the UK Dementia Research Institute. This was set up in 2016 with £250m funding and aims to make the UK a world leader in dementia research. He says he now faces two major problems, recruitment and funding. The Institute has 250 researchers and hopes to reach 700, but it's becoming hard to recruit the talented foreign scientists needed because they see the UK as anti-European and anti-international. The Home Office does little to help, refusing without explanation to grant visas to well paid foreign scientific experts seeking to attend seminars here. It seems we're happy for any footballers to come here, but not scientists. The UK has done well in attracting EU funding for scientific research. Between 2007-13, the UK paid €5.4bn towards R&D activities in the EU but received €8.8bn in EU grants for research projects carried out in the UK. This would certainly end with a no deal brexit. A major source of scientific funding would be lost and, as the UK government is forecast to have lower revenues, it would be unable to make up for the loss. Our dementia research programme would stall, other countries would take the lead and we'd lose the chance of earlier improved treatments and the economic benefits of the medications we might otherwise discover. This isn't intended to be an anti-brexit rant. I just don't believe any of us would want this outcome. Sometimes the arguments get too emotional and irrational but there are real consequences like this that mustn't be ignored in the general debate. If there's to be a no deal brexit, at least ask those pushing for it how they would deal with a problem like this. Yes this certainly is an eye opener. Problem is Brexiteers just shut themselves off from anything positive about staying in. It will be interesting a few years down the line what views on leaving will be.
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crayfish
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Post by crayfish on Jan 20, 2019 17:28:35 GMT 1
You need not worry about dementia as we will all have died of thirst and or hunger and of various diseases within weeks of leaving the EU. How we ever survived as a nation before joining is almost beyond comprehension.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2019 17:46:33 GMT 1
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Post by thesensationaljt on Jan 20, 2019 17:49:20 GMT 1
The EU is dying and a good thing too.
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Post by shrewder on Jan 20, 2019 17:50:34 GMT 1
The EU is dying and a good thing too. Another head in the sand Brexiteer .
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Post by venceremos on Jan 20, 2019 18:07:48 GMT 1
The EU is dying and a good thing too. And your answer to the problems of the UK Dementia Research Institute would be …..?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2019 18:40:18 GMT 1
Losing 8.8bn of funding - so that’s about 25 weeks of the 350m per week the NHS will be getting when we leave the EU. Panic over.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jan 20, 2019 18:43:28 GMT 1
rather alarming; who knows what is going to happen but if we do completely leave then you would think the sensible thing would be to some kind of points system but then that does require some forward thinking and common sense .
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Post by thesensationaljt on Jan 20, 2019 19:06:40 GMT 1
I must admit I haven't even bothered to read it. I'm not big on anti democratic scare stories from a desperate losing side.
The UK pays £19billion into the EU coffers. In 2017 we had a £67billion deficit with the EU.
The EU is run for the benefit of big business, woolly liberals, megabucks money men and failed but got rich champagne politicians like Blair who would treat the working class like sheep, to be moved from pen to pen at their will. Well the working people of Europe have had enough.
Power to the people.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2019 19:36:22 GMT 1
Losing 8.8bn of funding - so that’s about 25 weeks of the 350m per week the NHS will be getting when we leave the EU. Panic over. I would imagine any money we would 'save' will go on big tax breaks to keep/attract business in/to the UK. But, the real problem isn't the money, it's how experts in their field now perceive the UK as anti-European and anti-international. Why would experts come here? Why is the foreign office being obstructive? This is the debate, surely? At a micro level, my Russian colleague has noted a definite change in attitudes to her. Which is a real shame and is upsetting to the point of her and her English husband contemplating leaving the UK. Taking their skills and knowledge with them.
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Post by venceremos on Jan 20, 2019 19:46:09 GMT 1
I must admit I haven't even bothered to read it. Enough said.
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Post by thesensationaljt on Jan 20, 2019 19:52:04 GMT 1
That's because the boogie man is alive and well. Get under the bed sheets children. Whoooooooooo, I'm coming to get yooooouu.
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Post by venceremos on Jan 20, 2019 19:55:53 GMT 1
Losing 8.8bn of funding - so that’s about 25 weeks of the 350m per week the NHS will be getting when we leave the EU. Panic over. I would imagine any money we would 'save' will go on big tax breaks to keep/attract business in/to the UK. But, the real problem isn't the money, it's how experts in their field now perceive the UK as anti-European and anti-international. Why would experts come here? Why is the foreign office being obstructive? This is the debate, surely? At a micro level, my Russian colleague has noted a definite change in attitudes to her. Which is a real shame and is upsetting to the point of her and her English husband contemplating leaving the UK. Taking their skills and knowledge with them. When taxes are perceived to be high and there's a threatened exodus of the wealthy (usually involving the likes of Michael Caine and Phil Collins), those on the right tell us that's a bad thing. When we're faced with the prospect of a real brain drain and a loss of important contributors to the country's future, the silence is deafening. Forget brexit, are we serious about being an international-facing country or is our future to be spent trying to recapture an obsolete and largely fictitious national identity?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2019 20:04:30 GMT 1
Losing 8.8bn of funding - so that’s about 25 weeks of the 350m per week the NHS will be getting when we leave the EU. Panic over. I would imagine any money we would 'save' will go on big tax breaks to keep/attract business in/to the UK. But, the real problem isn't the money, it's how experts in their field now perceive the UK as anti-European and anti-international. Why would experts come here? Why is the foreign office being obstructive? This is the debate, surely? At a micro level, my Russian colleague has noted a definite change in attitudes to her. Which is a real shame and is upsetting to the point of her and her English husband contemplating leaving the UK. Taking their skills and knowledge with them. Interesting - you mind me asking where you’re based? Wondering if that’s an attitude based on region - my wife’s Russian and experienced no such change (fortunately in her area of research it seems to be going the opposite way!) but then again we live/work in a city that voted predominantly remain.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2019 20:14:47 GMT 1
I would imagine any money we would 'save' will go on big tax breaks to keep/attract business in/to the UK. But, the real problem isn't the money, it's how experts in their field now perceive the UK as anti-European and anti-international. Why would experts come here? Why is the foreign office being obstructive? This is the debate, surely? At a micro level, my Russian colleague has noted a definite change in attitudes to her. Which is a real shame and is upsetting to the point of her and her English husband contemplating leaving the UK. Taking their skills and knowledge with them. Interesting - you mind me asking where you’re based? Wondering if that’s an attitude based on region - my wife’s Russian and experienced no such change (fortunately in her area of research it seems to be going the opposite way!) but then again we live/work in a city that voted predominantly remain. <iframe width="18.4" height="8.12" id="MoatPxIOPT1_47038174" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 15px; top: -5px; width: 18.4px; height: 8.12px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe> <iframe width="18.4" height="8.12" id="MoatPxIOPT1_10746356" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 865px; top: -5px; width: 18.4px; height: 8.12px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe> <iframe width="18.4" height="8.12" id="MoatPxIOPT1_58554073" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 343px; width: 18.4px; height: 8.12px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe> <iframe width="18.4" height="8.12" id="MoatPxIOPT1_67866560" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 865px; top: 343px; width: 18.4px; height: 8.12px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe> www.shropshirestar.com/news/politics/2016/06/24/eu-referendum-result-shropshire-votes-leave/
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2019 20:22:10 GMT 1
Putting aside our obvious differences on this, I came across a report that should alarm even the most hardened brexiteer. Bart De Strooper is Belgian and heads the UK Dementia Research Institute. This was set up in 2016 with £250m funding and aims to make the UK a world leader in dementia research. He says he now faces two major problems, recruitment and funding. The Institute has 250 researchers and hopes to reach 700, but it's becoming hard to recruit the talented foreign scientists needed because they see the UK as anti-European and anti-international. The Home Office does little to help, refusing without explanation to grant visas to well paid foreign scientific experts seeking to attend seminars here. It seems we're happy for any footballers to come here, but not scientists. The UK has done well in attracting EU funding for scientific research. Between 2007-13, the UK paid €5.4bn towards R&D activities in the EU but received €8.8bn in EU grants for research projects carried out in the UK. This would certainly end with a no deal brexit. A major source of scientific funding would be lost and, as the UK government is forecast to have lower revenues, it would be unable to make up for the loss. Our dementia research programme would stall, other countries would take the lead and we'd lose the chance of earlier improved treatments and the economic benefits of the medications we might otherwise discover. This isn't intended to be an anti-brexit rant. I just don't believe any of us would want this outcome. Sometimes the arguments get too emotional and irrational but there are real consequences like this that mustn't be ignored in the general debate. If there's to be a no deal brexit, at least ask those pushing for it how they would deal with a problem like this. **** that, I’d much rather a nice shiny blue passport any day!
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Jan 20, 2019 20:41:48 GMT 1
Yes, there's lot's of stuff like this out there to discover and read out, that isn't talked about in the press. I mentioned back in '16 about the impact on education and training leaving the EU would have when the European Social Fund money is withdrawn. I remember the Shropshire Tenor talking about he effect on academic research and the sharing of resources during the ref debate. But, the debate wasn't about that and what you posted, it was about taking back control and suchlike. I don’t bother posting what my daughter tells me about the adverse affects of Brexit on medicine, engineering and academia as it’s clear that no one is going to change their mind. Suffice to say that it’s never positive. The most interesting thing I’ve heard recently is a Marxist economist speaking in favour of no deal which helped to explain Corbyn’s position. It appears that the extreme right and extreme left want no deal for the same reasons but that they expect opposite results. The left expect freedom from EU regualion to allow a Socialist Government to prevent outward flow of capital and allow industries to be taken into State ownership while the right expect freedom from these regulations to enable them to remove workers rights and cut social budgets so we have a low wage/low tax economy.
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Post by staffordshrew on Jan 20, 2019 21:10:45 GMT 1
I must admit I haven't even bothered to read it. I'm not big on anti democratic scare stories from a desperate losing side.
The UK pays £19billion into the EU coffers. In 2017 we had a £67billion deficit with the EU.
The EU is run for the benefit of big business, woolly liberals, megabucks money men and failed but got rich champagne politicians like Blair who would treat the working class like sheep, to be moved from pen to pen at their will. Well the working people of Europe have had enough.
Power to the people. It will all depend on the qualty of our own government, that's a bigger worry than Brexit for me. Even being in the EU we have greatly increased use of foodbanks and homelessness, that, for me, is a national disgrace. People are setting up little cardboard rooms in empty shop doorways, in or out of the EU, we have to address the problems people currently have.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2019 21:27:25 GMT 1
Yes, there's lot's of stuff like this out there to discover and read out, that isn't talked about in the press. I mentioned back in '16 about the impact on education and training leaving the EU would have when the European Social Fund money is withdrawn. I remember the Shropshire Tenor talking about he effect on academic research and the sharing of resources during the ref debate. But, the debate wasn't about that and what you posted, it was about taking back control and suchlike. I don’t bother posting what my daughter tells me about the adverse affects of Brexit on medicine, engineering and academia as it’s clear that no one is going to change their mind. Suffice to say that it’s never positive. The most interesting thing I’ve heard recently is a Marxist economist speaking in favour of no deal which helped to explain Corbyn’s position. It appears that the extreme right and extreme left want no deal for the same reasons but that they expect opposite results. The left expect freedom from EU regualion to allow a Socialist Government to prevent outward flow of capital and allow industries to be taken into State ownership while the right expect freedom from these regulations to enable them to remove workers rights and cut social budgets so we have a low wage/low tax economy. It's too late to change minds, but some leavers are in total denial about the effects on certain sectors in the UK over a no deal and Brexit generally. But, still, that's up to them. The best Corbyn can hope for is a Social Democratic Government and is naïve at best to expect a true Socialist economic utopia. Anyone on the left who thinks this possible hasn't been paying attention these past 40 years. The right wing version is the more likely outcome, then people who voted leave will really have something to moan about. I'm happy saying this, because I know Tory voters who moan about cuts in services that effect their lives. Cuts they voted for...
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Post by albionshrew on Jan 20, 2019 22:36:32 GMT 1
I must admit I haven't even bothered to read it. I'm not big on anti democratic scare stories from a desperate losing side.
The UK pays £19billion into the EU coffers. In 2017 we had a £67billion deficit with the EU.
The EU is run for the benefit of big business, woolly liberals, megabucks money men and failed but got rich champagne politicians like Blair who would treat the working class like sheep, to be moved from pen to pen at their will. Well the working people of Europe have had enough.
Power to the people. It will all depend on the qualty of our own government, that's a bigger worry than Brexit for me. Even being in the EU we have greatly increased use of foodbanks and homelessness, that, for me, is a national disgrace. People are setting up little cardboard rooms in empty shop doorways, in or out of the EU, we have to address the problems people currently have. I suspect that food banks and homelessness have more to do with having a Tory government than EU membership.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2019 22:39:04 GMT 1
I must admit I haven't even bothered to read it. I'm not big on anti democratic scare stories from a desperate losing side.
The UK pays £19billion into the EU coffers. In 2017 we had a £67billion deficit with the EU.
The EU is run for the benefit of big business, woolly liberals, megabucks money men and failed but got rich champagne politicians like Blair who would treat the working class like sheep, to be moved from pen to pen at their will. Well the working people of Europe have had enough.
Power to the people. It will all depend on the qualty of our own government, that's a bigger worry than Brexit for me. Even being in the EU we have greatly increased use of foodbanks and homelessness, that, for me, is a national disgrace. People are setting up little cardboard rooms in empty shop doorways, in or out of the EU, we have to address the problems people currently have. In or out these are the direct result of economic policy of the government. Perhaps salopross might like to check on and explain. He's proud of his parties record on this.
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Post by staffordshrew on Jan 20, 2019 23:21:48 GMT 1
It will all depend on the qualty of our own government, that's a bigger worry than Brexit for me. Even being in the EU we have greatly increased use of foodbanks and homelessness, that, for me, is a national disgrace. People are setting up little cardboard rooms in empty shop doorways, in or out of the EU, we have to address the problems people currently have. I suspect that food banks and homelessness have more to do with having a Tory government than EU membership. Yes, and our government's role will be even more important when there is no EU level of government or checks. I don't like the EU and I think we could do ok without it, but our government needs to be much better and work for the general population and not just the elite. I doubt that will happen.
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Post by salop27 on Jan 21, 2019 0:12:25 GMT 1
[quote author=" albionshrew" source="/post/1402500/thread" I suspect that food banks and homelessness have more to do with having a Tory government than EU membership.[/quote] The homeless and food banks increase is not just a UK problem. There are record high levels across Europe. Unless the evil tories are so evil they're masterminding a Europe wide increase it could be something else responsible. Maybe a bubble from the financial crash or a reaction from increased migrant /refegee entry into Europe.
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Post by thesensationaljt on Jan 21, 2019 0:23:30 GMT 1
I suspect that food banks and homelessness have more to do with having a Tory government than EU membership. Yes, and our government's role will be even more important when there is no EU level of government or checks. I don't like the EU and I think we could do ok without it, but our government needs to be much better and work for the general population and not just the elite.
You're not wrong, staffy. I don't trust any of them to be honest. The Juan sure thing is that the left and right, (some of them very undesirable), are gaining ground and will react to be strangled by non democratic posh boys, who would tell the working class to know their place.
Power to the people.
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Post by frankwellshrews on Jan 21, 2019 9:54:03 GMT 1
Here's the link I was looking for the other day when I argued that the referendum was only wanted by a "handful of cranks"; www.economist.com/britain/2017/04/03/brexit-a-solution-in-search-of-a-problemAccording to polling data less than 10% of people ranked EU membership as the issue which most concerned them in the DECADE which ran up to the referendum. So, leavers, where were you for those ten years or more?
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jan 21, 2019 10:38:20 GMT 1
First off, I think we can all agree that Bart De Strooper is a great name... There are undoubtedly good things that come about through working close together with our European neighbors, in the great scheme of things I doubt there are many who would argue against that. I would think most people would point to this institute and its work as the exact thing that they would like from a closer working relationship with European nations. However, that doesn't remove the feeling that that many have that the EU (as is) has gone beyond the remit that they consider beneficial and desirable. Perhaps this is an excellent example of what people want from a European Union. However, we know that the EU goes way beyond such cooperation and that it has gone beyond what many people want from it. As for funding, can we be 100% sure that no future funding will be available to such research based in the UK? Perhaps not to the same amounts but something. I mean the greatest test for me if the UK does leave the EU is whether we will see such things funded as they were previously but directly for the UK's coffers (rather than through the EU). That must continue. Whether it will, however... The visas sounds a concern and it would be interesting to understand more about that. And as for the people who they need refusing to come to the UK because they see it as anti-European and anti-international, well that's very much on them. You can't really do a great deal about that when faced with such ignorance. That's certainly no fault of anyone's but those who hold such views. The EU isn't perfect, there are good things and there are bad things. Brexit will lose us the good things for sure, this being a fine example. I guess it comes down to your own position, your own situation, your own priorities, the importance that you place on certain things related to membership of the EU...
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Post by thesensationaljt on Jan 21, 2019 10:46:26 GMT 1
According to polling data less than 10% of people ranked EU membership as the issue which most concerned them in the DECADE which ran up to the referendum. So, leavers, where were you for those ten years or more?
I know where we were on polling day, Frankie.
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