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Post by Liam on Jan 12, 2019 20:23:27 GMT 1
It's possible (possible) that the current pairing is the best one we have available at the club.
However, surely the time has now come to at least test this theory by picking someone else for a game or two and seeing what happens.
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Post by tvor on Jan 12, 2019 21:04:42 GMT 1
Waterfall comes in for a lot of stick, some deserved a lot (in my opinion) undeserved. Sadler seems to escape criticism despite, for me, not being the player he was last season. Ricketts clearly indicated this week that he sees Beckles as a centre back and wants to play him there, after today I'll be amazed if that doesn't start on Tuesday or next Saturday. Depending on what happens this transfer window we may see a completely new centre back pairing in a week or two, i.e. Beckles plus AN Other.
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Post by Liam on Jan 12, 2019 21:10:55 GMT 1
I feel a bit sorry for Waterfall, as he tries hard and would happily lose a couple of teeth if it meant preventing a goal. Despite this he isn't really good enough, and yet he has to cop all of the flak for this season's ropey defending as everyone loves Sadler.
The time has come to take him out of the firing line and try Beckles or Bolton or both though.
Playing Sadler and Waterfall is fine. However, doing it every game without any experimentation when our defending has been shoddy all season is at best unimaginative.
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Post by blueboy62 on Jan 12, 2019 21:16:14 GMT 1
Agree with both above posts. We have always been vulnerable to pace and Charlton had it all over the pitch.
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Post by Red Rose In Exile on Jan 12, 2019 21:25:52 GMT 1
There is without doubt a player in there with Luke Waterfall. Just not in league 1 with STFC. Too many basic errors each and every game since he signed. Dont know him personally, but a bit of a journeyman for me if you believe WiKi: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_Waterfall
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Post by JohnG on Jan 12, 2019 21:28:10 GMT 1
Slow, ponderous, and prone to errors every game.
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Post by Mortgagehound on Jan 12, 2019 21:32:23 GMT 1
Time to accept that against good opponents Mr Waterfall is not up to the task
Personally thought he had been improving over the past couple of months but we have to accept he is making too many mistakes that are leading to us conceding goals
Sorry Luke I’m afraid it’s time to step outside the limelight and work on your game or maybe consider dropping down a league
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Post by shrewdshrewssupporter on Jan 12, 2019 21:43:55 GMT 1
I feel a bit sorry for Waterfall, as he tries hard and would happily lose a couple of teeth if it meant preventing a goal. Despite this he isn't really good enough, and yet he has to cop all of the flak for this season's ropey defending as everyone loves Sadler. The time has come to take him out of the firing line and try Beckles or Bolton or both though. Playing Sadler and Waterfall is fine. However, doing it every game without any experimentation when our defending has been shoddy all season is at best unimaginative. Backline: Emmanuel, Bolton, Beckles, Haynes Sears in for Emmanuel or at Centre back with Bolton at right back??
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Post by dooble78 on Jan 12, 2019 22:00:14 GMT 1
Defo think we need to change Defence I like the look of Emanuel beckles Bolton Haynes waterfall and sadler have to be dropped make beckles captain 🤔
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Jan 12, 2019 22:01:11 GMT 1
Emmanuel wasn’t even on the bench today was he? Could be next to go...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2019 22:14:35 GMT 1
Chatting to a Charlton fan before the game today he said they had lots of pace up front, I replied we would struggle in that case
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Jan 12, 2019 22:21:25 GMT 1
Charlton have got the basics covered, giants at the back, pace up front, and one or two technicians in the middle. We have none of the above.
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Post by blueboy62 on Jan 13, 2019 0:22:10 GMT 1
Charlton have got the basics covered, giants at the back, pace up front, and one or two technicians in the middle. We have none of the above. They had giants at the back so we decided to lump it forward for Okenabirhie at 5'10" to battle for it.
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Post by staffordshrew on Jan 13, 2019 0:59:25 GMT 1
Chatting to a Charlton fan before the game today he said they had lots of pace up front, I replied we would struggle in that case You were wrong then, capitulate might have been better.
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Post by wickedwilleh on Jan 13, 2019 1:19:32 GMT 1
I thought the one time we looked really comfortable at the back this season was against Barnsley with a back 3 containing Waterfall in the middle with Beckles left and Bolton right, gives Waterfall the pacey backup he needs.
That suited Haynes and Emmanuel too as wing backs.
We then went to Oxford and played pants so it was given up but I would like to see that formation again.
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Post by venceremos on Jan 13, 2019 1:51:00 GMT 1
I thought the one time we looked really comfortable at the back this season was against Barnsley with a back 3 containing Waterfall in the middle with Beckles left and Bolton right, gives Waterfall the pacey backup he needs. That suited Haynes and Emmanuel too as wing backs. We then went to Oxford and played pants so it was given up but I would like to see that formation again. Agreed. We lack solidity all through the team. We need 3 in defence, 3 in the middle and 2 wing backs. Got to start being harder to play against again and it would also give us some much needed width. I know it was only a short time but I thought we looked less vulnerable against Stoke when Sadler had to go off and Beckles gave us a more physical presence.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2019 3:05:05 GMT 1
Didn't attend today. But was there at the valley.
And it certainly is interesting how we have regressed against practically the same team.
We outplayed and competed for a huge swathe of the game against Charlton at their place. Centre backs that day were Beckles and Waterfall. And whilst Taylor caused issue. I'd argue he causes problems every team he faces.
Incidentally that day we were well worthy for a point but for some last minute calamities from Grant and Coleman. The game was also docherty and norburns first so the team was rusty and very new.
Regression or what.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jan 13, 2019 6:08:30 GMT 1
Didn't attend today. But was there at the valley. And it certainly is interesting how we have regressed against practically the same team. We outplayed and competed for a huge swathe of the game against Charlton at their place. Centre backs that day were Beckles and Waterfall. And whilst Taylor caused issue. I'd argue he causes problems every team he faces. Incidentally that day we were well worthy for a point but for some last minute calamities from Grant and Coleman. The game was also docherty and norburns first so the team was rusty and very new. Regression or what. <iframe width="18.720000000000027" height="6.159999999999997" style="position: absolute; width: 18.720000000000027px; height: 6.159999999999997px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_40916107" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="18.720000000000027" height="6.159999999999997" style="position: absolute; width: 18.72px; height: 6.16px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 881px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_38204126" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="18.720000000000027" height="6.159999999999997" style="position: absolute; width: 18.72px; height: 6.16px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 245px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_57578570" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="18.720000000000027" height="6.159999999999997" style="position: absolute; width: 18.72px; height: 6.16px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 881px; top: 245px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_9502123" scrolling="no"></iframe> under rickets in the league we have won 1 Drawn 3 lost 3 so from a combination of performance and results we have definitely regressed as we continue to slide down the table.
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Post by Exkeeper on Jan 13, 2019 10:16:08 GMT 1
Defo think we need to change Defence I like the look of Emanuel beckles Bolton Haynes waterfall and sadler have to be dropped make beckles captain 🤔 So you want to make captain, a player who has been shown to be not good enough and given time will show it again. I agree we need a younger, quicker, dominant centre back but am pretty sure OB will prove not to be the answer.
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Post by blueboy62 on Jan 13, 2019 11:22:01 GMT 1
Omar should play centre half in place of Waterfall but why on earth make him captain.
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Post by kuffdam72 on Jan 13, 2019 12:29:00 GMT 1
call in the veterinary all need to be put down.
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Post by Pilch on Jan 13, 2019 13:47:12 GMT 1
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Post by horse01 on Jan 13, 2019 14:11:58 GMT 1
I think they’ll be alright next week. Give them a chance to showcase what they can do at Blackpool......
......unfortunately, that will be on Blackpool beach rather than the pitch!!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2019 14:14:12 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2019 14:14:35 GMT 1
Can’t help but feel the fact we had to pay for Waterfalls services, probably put him on decent wages and a long term contract is the reason he keeps starting.
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Post by greeny on Jan 13, 2019 16:17:20 GMT 1
I feel a lot of our problems stem from our CB partnership. Against a ‘big man little man’ combination we are always going to struggle. The big man sits on Sadler and wins most things and anybody with pace will do Waterfall every time.
We seem to be on the back foot and on edge all the time due to our lack of pace at the back. Then when you throw into the mix unforced errors from Waterfall and Bolton’s poor performances of late we are always going to struggle.
Although Toto wasn’t exceptional on the ball, he didn’t mind getting it down when he had the chance and his pace covered for Sadler. Waterfall has played pretty much every game since he’s come in and he’s improved but he’s still some way off what we need. It’s not just his fault but he puts us under pressure and I really can’t see him ever being a long term fixture in our team.
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Post by Exkeeper on Jan 13, 2019 18:33:20 GMT 1
Bolton got stitched like a kipper on the halfway line for the last goal. If the ball gets past, make sure the man doesn’t. Obstruction on the halfway line should mean a booking at most.
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Post by markglasgow on Jan 13, 2019 19:43:13 GMT 1
Demonstrates how fortunate we were to have Toto last season. The guy had all the attributes. Power, pace, positioning and great in the air. He's the player all our L1 CB's will unfortunately be measured against for the foreseeable.
We've signed arguably the best CB's L2 has produced over the last few years in both Beckles and Waterfall. Both are very decent CB's but don't come close to what Nsiala gave us last season. This parnership is key to what we do in this league. GT suffered due to Tam & Winfield and Mellon's downfall was much to do with Lancaster and El Abd struggling badly. Our current duo are, in my mind at least, better than those previous pairings. Mistakes will be made and points will be lost. Anyone expecting perfection will be terribly disappointed.
The Sadler/Waterfall CB combo has been the preferred option for all three managers who have had to make these decisions this season, so for me, Liam is correct in the suppostion that this our best option in this position. Interesting to see what will transpire over the next few weeks. Will Ricketts decide that Beckles should get his chance or perhaps opt to bring in another CB whilst the window is open or even take the broader view that today was a blip and performances versus Sunderland and Stoke are indicative that things aren't as bleak as some may suggest.
On a slightly different note it was again very disappointing to read and hear so much abuse directed at Waterfall over the last 24 hours of so. Like all players at our club the lad has limitations but not sure if there is anyone who lays it on the line each week as much as he does. For that alone at least he deserves my respect. Tough day yesterday for sure but more likely to be one of the many L1 bumps we've had since GT brought us back to this level rather than the fall of Rome. Keep the faith. Get behind them.
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masshrop
Midland League Division Two
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Post by masshrop on Jan 13, 2019 21:12:06 GMT 1
Great post that
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Post by northwestman on Jan 13, 2019 22:10:46 GMT 1
"We've signed arguably the best CB's L2 has produced over the last few years in both Beckles and Waterfall".
That has to be a very questionable opinion to say the least!
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