itfc1962
Shropshire County League
Posts: 20
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Post by itfc1962 on Jun 4, 2018 13:53:12 GMT 1
Sorry I would have come on before but had some registration problems / been busy the last few days. Anyway, about the Paul Hurst issue.
Quick intro, been a Town fan for considerable years and seen a lot of ups and downs and managerial changes but you'll have a much better understanding of what Hurst can bring to the club and what we can realistically expect. Now, McCarthy was infamous for boring defensive approaches and playing for draws and 1 point results and would expect the new name to eradicate such events and give the players and fans some freedom and belief to expect something different. When I had a look in on these pages when the transfer between clubs was still underway I saw some comments from Shrews fans admitting Hurst could employ these tactics himself and wasn't the most adventurous of people. One of my biggest concerns is the transition from League One to Championship and for a manager who has never been involved at that level I think our owners have taken some big risk in their decision.
Before now we never really had much involvement with Shrewsbury. Two or three FA Cup meetings in the 80's that saw your team register victories but not much in the time since. Many fans here (Ipswich) are happy with the appointment but then again we've had a succession of inept banal names as manager since Joe Royle off in 2006 so any change will of course lead to expectations and maybe false dawns.
That's not to say Paul Hurst is going to be a bad manager for us - or has been as a whole - but would appreciate some assistance from Shrews people as to what our fans can realistically expect from August. Sorry your team did not win the play off final, obviously that must have been hard to take but you now need to focus on what lies ahead and the new name to replace Hurst.
We both have work to do next season with new managers but this is the best place to ask on what Hurst can bring to Portman Road and realistic expectations for the months ahead. Many thanks.
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Post by SouthStandShrew on Jun 4, 2018 13:59:10 GMT 1
I'm sure you will 'tap up' Nolan in no time...
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itfc1962
Shropshire County League
Posts: 20
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Post by itfc1962 on Jun 4, 2018 14:08:55 GMT 1
If there was tapping up involved then I apologize for that, unfortunately I don't have any control over the executive decisions our directors undertake. Saw it mentioned on here Hurst was maybe appointed some weeks before the actual announcement and for some reason Evans kept it quiet, to what end I don't know.
Sorry if there's any hard feelings about what occurred the last few days but again I'm just a humble supporter, I don't have any influence on what the owners say or do. I think we can agree we just want what's best for both clubs and now Hurst is with us I'd ask again what he can bring to the Championship league -and with it a club in ourselves who have remained it for much longer than we would have liked. It's been some 15 years since fans here enjoyed seasons as a whole and there was something to believe in. Is Paul Hurst likely to change that. Bringing in a name from lower league who was vaguely recognized by many of our own fans presents a fair amount of risk.
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Post by criftins on Jun 4, 2018 14:13:06 GMT 1
Hurst will galvanise the team into a hardworking unit with no “ star players” he will demand 110% effort for the whole game , on this point we scored quite a few goals after 90 mins to gain points.
He will focus on ensuring you don’t concede and for most of last season until we had our wobble about two thirds in you should feel very confident that you won’t concede despite the fact that the opposition have most of the ball.
He likes to play a counter attacking style so employs two wide men who are quick with usually one striker who is very good at holding the ball up and good in the air.
Not keen on using subs until last 10 mins unless real need to do so.
It’s bit of a falicy that he plays out and out attacking football but he likes to play neat passing and if you look at the two goals we scored against Charlton in the play off semi you will see what I mean. Hope this helps good luck for next season hope Hurst does well for you like he did for us we had a tremendous season despite the end not being what we would have wanted.
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Post by ipswichshrews on Jun 4, 2018 14:19:09 GMT 1
Between Hurst and Doig, and regardless of whether it is championship or league 1, they expect hard work, right attitude and togetherness from players. Many wins for us was from working hard and earning the right to win. Being a fit side, we grinded teams down and out run sides too. Gained many wins and draws with late goals. He’ll use the budget well and will identify players that won’t be on most club’s radar – just like he did with us.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2018 14:19:22 GMT 1
you have a good but ambitious manager. he did a great job for us, and for that we should be grateful. I have no doubt in his ability regardless of level.
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Post by ipswichshrews on Jun 4, 2018 14:21:27 GMT 1
you have a good but ambitious manager. he did a great job for us, and for that we should be grateful. I have no doubt in his ability regardless of level. I'll echo that point about being ambitious. If he does well with Ipswich in his first season and gets them closer to the play - offs and demonstrates his ability, be prepared for bigger and higher placed clubs showing interest in him this time next season - and don't be surprised if he is tempted to progress on to something bigger.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Jun 4, 2018 14:25:09 GMT 1
Hurst will galvanise the team into a hardworking unit with no “ star players” he will demand 110% effort for the whole game , on this point we scored quite a few goals after 90 mins to gain points. He will focus on ensuring you don’t concede and for most of last season until we had our wobble about two thirds in you should feel very confident that you won’t concede despite the fact that the opposition have most of the ball. He likes to play a counter attacking style so employs two wide men who are quick with usually one striker who is very good at holding the ball up and good in the air. Not keen on using subs until last 10 mins unless real need to do so. It’s bit of a falicy that he plays out and out attacking football but he likes to play neat passing and if you look at the two goals we scored against Charlton in the play off semi you will see what I mean. Hope this helps good luck for next season hope Hurst does well for you like he did for us we had a tremendous season despite the end not being what we would have wanted. Would pretty much agree with this. Not out and out attacking, will make sure defence is the no1 priority but although not a high scoring team I’m sure you will score more than you let in. Expect plenty of odd goal wins, plenty of shut outs. Sadly going by recent experience when you are on the brink of achieving something expect his ambition to over reach that of the clubs and expect him to feck off at the worst possible moment to improve himself...........
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Post by venceremos on Jun 4, 2018 14:49:34 GMT 1
I thought we played some really nice football under Hurst but I wouldn't say he was attack minded. Solid back four and a three in central midfield were the keys to our success. Can't say I ever saw us cut loose - even the 4-0 first half rout of Bristol Rovers was partly on the counter because they came to have a go at us.
A lot depends on your squad and the strengths of the individuals. Hurst got the best out of his squad here but he might be able to assemble a more talented squad at Ipswich and play a different style.
We didn't worry unduly that we didn't score many because we conceded even less and, when you go into a season as a relegation favourite, there's no such thing as a bad 1-0. When the 4-5-1 didn't work, we struggled and Hurst's plan B was almost always a hapless 4-4-2. I don't know what the stats show but it seemed increasingly throughout last season that, if we fell behind, we'd struggle.
I wish him well but of course it's a risk and I'm curious to see how it turns out. I don't know what expectations your fans will have now but I wouldn't expect Ipswich to make the leap in the Championship that we made in League 1. If it works, I think it will take longer.
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Post by shrewder on Jun 4, 2018 14:53:38 GMT 1
"Horses for courses". Question is, is this a step to far. Relied a lot on hungry non league players but think that source has dried up, and in any case could such players make the step up to the Championship. Expect he will rely on quality loan players, if possible. I have an open mind as he has come a long way in a very short time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2018 14:54:44 GMT 1
If he can get your team playing well enough, expect him to leave.
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Post by Exkeeper on Jun 4, 2018 14:56:04 GMT 1
Good at setting up teams to soak up pressure but not great at going at inferior teams - we won only 6 points from the 18 available against the bottom three, (Cobblers , Bury and Franchise). Likes to play one up front, which fits well with the idea of soaking up pressure and breaking quickly, but is annoying when playing a must win game such as Wembley, where it seemed as though we would be happy with penalties. He seemed genuinely shocked when we put four past Bristol Rovers and told us not to expect that to be a regular occurrence.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Jun 4, 2018 14:57:00 GMT 1
I think this season is the biggest test for Hurst.
The success this season was based on his non league players making the step up; Henderson, Nsiala, Nolan & Rodman.
Chuck in some absolute quality he inherited like Ogogo and Whalley.
The new elements were finding Bolton and moving Sadler which were both inspired.
Then the loan of Godfrey was the missing piece of the midfield jigsaw.
So I am not entirely sure how he recreates that because I am not sure any of those bar perhaps Nolan. Ogogo or Nsiala could make the step up.
How he works with players he does not know will be very interesting indeed.
His actual transfer windows outside of players he already had play for him, were vastly underwhelming.
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Post by horse01 on Jun 4, 2018 14:57:02 GMT 1
As has already been said, you can expect a fit, hard working team. Which is fine if you have depth in your squad, but if you lose a key component without a replacement, you could struggle. Hurst is good at unearthing a gem or two from lower/non league- but not sure how effective that will prove in the championship?? And he needs to learn how to cope with teams that will play a certain style of play (direct/high balls into the box).
As good as our season was, we won an awful lot of games by a single goal (the most in all 4 leagues I believe?), and don’t expect a big tally in the ‘goals for’ column (or the goals against either!). IMO, this was more due to us (Hurst) not displaying a Plan B. We had three strikers on the books, and as we only played with one up top, the change was always like for like- a big hold up player who was decent in the air. At times it was obvious we needed that whippet of a striker- something different, but we (Hurst) failed to address that problem. Often he makes substitutes too late, and more often it is again like for like.
Hurst appeared to galvanise the club to some extent. He gave us a team we could identify with and a team to believe in. The journey was great last season, but ultimately ended with nothing to show for everyone’s efforts.
And that takes us on to his departure. For me, and many others, that is what has soured his tenure. It was obvious from a couple of months out that something was going on behind the scenes (to a certain extent not Hursts fault, and to a large extent ITFCs fault). The post match interviews stopped (around the time PH was first mooted for the ITFC job). Calling out fans for not turning up, sometimes being too critical (which he had a point!) and then treating us like mushrooms when most knew of his impending departure. And yes I do believe it had an effect on our play-off final; if we knew what was going on, the players must have known.
Nobody can blame anyone for being ambitious (which I’m sure you’ll hear a lot of), and nobody can blame Hurst for wanting to better himself, however, there is a right way and a wrong way of going about things. And did he choose the right way........??
Just be careful if anyone further up the football food chain comes sniffing around your manager!!
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Post by thesensationaljt on Jun 4, 2018 15:03:42 GMT 1
If you've got nothing nice to say, say nothing.
Nothing.
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Post by Exkeeper on Jun 4, 2018 15:04:07 GMT 1
He is keen to tell everyone how honest he is. If he does, then rsfer him back to us.
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Post by theriverside on Jun 4, 2018 15:21:33 GMT 1
One thing's for sure, he'll being in some cracking lads from Norwich City for you, great links with the youth set up there.
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Post by lenny on Jun 4, 2018 15:41:13 GMT 1
A lot depends on your squad and the strengths of the individuals. Hurst got the best out of his squad here but he might be able to assemble a more talented squad at Ipswich and play a different style. We didn't worry unduly that we didn't score many because we conceded even less and, when you go into a season as a relegation favourite, there's no such thing as a bad 1-0. When the 4-5-1 didn't work, we struggled and Hurst's plan B was almost always a hapless 4-4-2. I don't know what the stats show but it seemed increasingly throughout last season that, if we fell behind, we'd struggle. With respect to this bit, it's interesting because Grimsby fans said we could expect a 4-4-2 and not a huge amount by way of a plan B when Hurst first came in. 4-5-1/4-2-3-1/4-1-4-1 - whatever you call it - was the formation that worked best for us, by a mile, and was used almost exclusively, despite those reports. The bit they did get right was the lack of plan b: 4-4-2, as you say, was chucked out a few times and although it was occasionally useful in the right circumstances at the end of games when we were down (thinking Plymouth away when it was really effective), overall it was just not a winner with us. I wonder if the reason behind it is that Hurst will assemble a squad with an aim towards one formation, drill the players hard on it and make sure that first option is as good as possible. Does mean that, provided it is the right formation, it's one that will be known inside out but the opportunity cost of that is that players won't be so well drilled/suited to alternative formations. It's funny that we've all focused on negatives: you'd think you're getting some tactically inflexible dinosaur. What I would say is that Hurst's main skills: his eye for a player (was that really all down to his time at Grimsby? Sure he'll have seen plenty of L2/L1 players who could step up to the championship over the past 2 years); ability to organise a side; motivational/man management work with Doigy; and ability to improve what he inherits through training ground work and the above points are all talents he will be able to take all the way through to the Premier League and will all be on display at Ipswich, I'm sure.
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Post by venceremos on Jun 4, 2018 16:04:49 GMT 1
Good point lenny - will his eye for a player keep working at a higher level? That might be the key - formations and tactics can be built around those strengths, though the inflexibility could continue to be a drag.
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Post by blamber on Jun 4, 2018 16:08:14 GMT 1
Hurst will have one of the fittest teams in the league. He will also engender a great team spirit. He will play a pressing, high energy game. He likes to use the full width of the pitch. i think his biggest test will be how he handles the big step up to the Championship. That's why I think if Shrewsbury had been promoted he would have stayed to see what it to be a championship manager without having any impact on his stock if Shrewsbury had a poor season.
With the endeavour and spirit of Hurst's teams, that goes a long way in league one, as we happily found out last season. Teams a while to figure out how to play against our high intensity game. Sadly, Rotherham were one of the few that could play us at our own game and win. But what I am not sure about is whether Hurst has an eye for the talent needed at the higher level. You could argue that the likes of Nsiala and Ogogo can fit right into the Championship. I'm not so sure. Nolan aside, together with our loan contingent, I don't think Shrewsbury has any championship quality players that can play at a sustained level required in that league. So, whilst Hurst knows how he wants to set his teams up, I will look on with interest to see if he can source the players that can play to his style and have the creative talent to deliver a play off pushing team. Personally, I think it will be a bridge too far for him. But I hope I'm wrong as I think he deserves to be successful.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Jun 4, 2018 16:34:26 GMT 1
One thing's for sure, he'll being in some cracking lads from Norwich City for you, great links with the youth set up there.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2018 16:41:40 GMT 1
Echo most of what has been said. I think, also, possibly it is a bridge too far for him. He had to grasp the opportunity when it came along because I think he would have failed to replicate the success we had next season.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2018 16:49:17 GMT 1
He will certainly try to get the extra layers of fat off Martyn Waghorn's tum though I'm not sure even Hurst is that good.
If you want free flowing tiki taka fussball Hurst ain't your guy but he will push a competent style with the emphasis on wingers.
If you want a team of warriors who will run through walls for the shirt then Hurst is your guy . Just make sure he doesn't back channel to other clubs before a play off final though eh.
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Post by lenny on Jun 4, 2018 17:04:02 GMT 1
I don't see this as a likely problem. He came to us with 3 months' experience managing one level below, he comes into this role with over 18 months managing one level below. I doubt he'll directly sign that many players from us, if any, although he may well be keen on Godfrey who is someone who is already championship standard (but perhaps unlikely to join on loan!). The pool of players he'll be looking at will be L2/L1 standouts rather than Conference/L2 ones but I don't see why he's viewed as having less capacity for signing players of the requisite standard at a higher level. Plus, many of his best signings weren't even ones he had a direct prior connection with (Beckles, Bolton, Godfrey, Morris for example).
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Post by mattmw on Jun 4, 2018 17:18:53 GMT 1
A lot will depend on what Ipswich’s expectations are.
Can totally see Hurst putting together a solid, work man like team that secures Championship football for the next few seasons, but with the extra money in the Championship, particularly with recently relegated Premier league sides I think it’s hard to see him have enough tactical and motivational ability to get Ipswich promoted
Hurst was excellent in taking an underperforming side 18 months ago and saving us, and no doubt built on that this year with some top notch “bargains” and loan signings and maybe a little luck in them all gelling so well
What we didn’t really see with his time with us is how Hurst performs under pressure of 4-5 games without a win or a couple of heavy defeats - which seem more likely in the Championship. Think that’s what will make or break him as I suspect there is less patience with managers at that level
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2018 17:30:45 GMT 1
Also, don't underestimate the value of his right hand man, Chris Doig. Hurst may have taken all the plaudits last season but Doig also played his part.
There may come a time when Doig will want to go it alone. It will be interesting to see how Hurst then gets on.
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Post by Stowmarket Shrew on Jun 4, 2018 17:33:57 GMT 1
As others have said, Hurst's strength has been in creating a side that cumulatively is stronger than the sum of its constituent parts. Superb fitness, a great team spirit, with an eye for getting the best out of otherwise nondescript players. The challenge will be making this concept work at championship level, with potentially greater egos at stake. When it all came together the team was an utter delight to watch. Incisive passing, tremendous closing down and harrying and a high intensity pace of football that was absolutely intoxicating.
As a Suffolk based Shrew with family who follow Ipswich I wish him all the best but to succeed I think he'll have to adapt as a manager as his previously successful route of finding journeymen and hungry non leaguers is unlikely to work against the polished ex premier league players he'll be up against most weeks.
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Post by champagneprince on Jun 4, 2018 17:41:32 GMT 1
Hurst will do enough to establish himself as a Championship manager but I can't see that he'll get you promoted on a budget. You may well finish mid-table pushing for the play-offs maybe. Next year, with a years experience under his belt might be a different story but I reckon he'll eventually get fed up of having little comparative money to spend and if someone with a bigger bank balance comes knocking, then he'll be on his way.
Make no mistake that this guy has a relentless ambition and his self-objective will be to improve the side and get himself noticed. I think he will do that for you, but it won't be enough for you to reach the promised land of the Premier League. When a money side comes knocking he'll be off.
Quite where that will leave you as a legacy remains to be seen. Maybe, through what happens to us next season you will get a glimpse of what the future holds!
If you're looking for excitement on the pitch beyond what Macarthy gave you I doubt whether it'll be that much of an improvement although the results will be better. We loved him and put up with defensive football because the results went our way. It was massively unexpected but your expectations are different, it seems you want results and more attacking football in the confines of a realistic budget. I think you'll get the first of those but not the second. That may be enough for you, after all, as fans we can put up with a lack of entertainment if the results are good.
On what I've seen of him you'll need an engine room in midfield, a top notch defence and a strong lone striker capable of holding the ball up. But that was us. Maybe for you guys he will adopt a different approach and he'll have a gung-ho Klopp style, time will tell.
I think many of us lost a lot of respect for him after what happened here and who knows whether what was going on behind the scenes affected the team's performance at Wembley. I think it probably did. So, unfortunately for you guys we're not going to be wishing you too much luck during his reign. Once he's gone, then personally I'll wish you all the luck in the world, it's about time you had a stint back in The Premier League!
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Post by shrewsace on Jun 4, 2018 17:52:05 GMT 1
My advice is if he stops giving media interviews under some cock and bull pretext, then brace yourself for a departure!
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wurlitzer
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 119
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Post by wurlitzer on Jun 4, 2018 17:54:22 GMT 1
Paul Hurst was a defender - so his team sets up with the DNA of defence. Hence you won’t see many goals - either For or Against. Championship strikers however might put a dent in his pride .... Don’t expect to get many points from the Rotherham fixtures - he has a big soft spot for the Millers. Don’t expect any loyalty if you have a good season - he’s very ambitious you know ... The manner of his departure was very unprofessional which left a sour taste in many supporters. Expect the same.
I wish you well.
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