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Post by shrewder on Feb 20, 2015 10:28:18 GMT 1
This is history , I thought this season had helped us move on. It wouldn't surprise me if I read on here some joker asks for a public inquiry into what went wrong last season. I jest but you can see my point.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Feb 20, 2015 10:50:01 GMT 1
Come on guys is it time to leave this one be now, and concentrate on making sure this season ends on a huge high whatever the reason for us having been relegated last season.
We can't change the past but we can help shape the future
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2015 12:11:08 GMT 1
lol, i still hear people go on about Ratcliffe and Simmo, so how is GT gonna get a rest when it is more recent history!!
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Post by callum on Feb 20, 2015 13:37:01 GMT 1
Don't get me started on Ratcliffe! I think Turners reaction to the town fans at Wolves said a lot, he looked almost embarrassed.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2015 13:53:09 GMT 1
but not from league 2. Which was my point!! Me thinks you're being selective. I'll put as simply as I can. Jimmy Quinn did not get us promoted out of Division 2, he got us promoted from the conference.
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Post by shrewed46 on Feb 20, 2015 14:05:01 GMT 1
Me thinks you're being selective. I'll put as simply as I can. Jimmy Quinn did not get us promoted out of Division 2, he got us promoted from the conference. As you can only get promoted from the league you are in, I'd suggest that a promotion is a promotion whatever the league. In fact personally I'd suggest that getting out of the Conference, at the first attempt, was far more important than promotion from division 2 at the 2nd attempt. But it's all a matter of opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2015 14:37:12 GMT 1
Come on guys is it time to leave this one be now, and concentrate on making sure this season ends on a huge high whatever the reason for us having been relegated last season. We can't change the past but we can help shape the future No you can't change the past but you can shape a better future by learning the lessons from the past. Apart from the usual predictable prejudices, this thread has some well thought-out and balanced posts, certainly not the worst B&A thread I've seen. If and when we get nearer to promotion you can expect this topic to be revisited more and more. Nothing wrong with that at all IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2015 15:44:01 GMT 1
I'll put as simply as I can. Jimmy Quinn did not get us promoted out of Division 2, he got us promoted from the conference. As you can only get promoted from the league you are in, I'd suggest that a promotion is a promotion whatever the league. In fact personally I'd suggest that getting out of the Conference, at the first attempt, was far more important than promotion from division 2 at the 2nd attempt. But it's all a matter of opinion. Quinn always divides opinion. He got us back into L2 at the first attempt which was a great achievement and one we should be thankful for. However he was found wanting in L2 and the opinion of some non league fans is that we got promoted in spite of Quinn, harsh perhaps but I can see why they have formed that opinion considering the budget he had and how far we were behind Chester. What is undeniable is that after relegation to the fourth tier of English football Jake King, Kevin Ratcliffe, Jimmy Quinn, Gary Peters and Paul Simpson were given the task of trying to get us into the third tier, all of them failed and Graham Turner achieved it within 2 seasons (having narrowly missed out in the first).
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Feb 20, 2015 17:29:49 GMT 1
As you can only get promoted from the league you are in, I'd suggest that a promotion is a promotion whatever the league. In fact personally I'd suggest that getting out of the Conference, at the first attempt, was far more important than promotion from division 2 at the 2nd attempt. But it's all a matter of opinion. Quinn always divides opinion. He got us back into L2 at the first attempt which was a great achievement and one we should be thankful for. However he was found wanting in L2 and the opinion of some non league fans is that we got promoted in spite of Quinn, harsh perhaps but I can see why they have formed that opinion considering the budget he had and how far we were behind Chester. What is undeniable is that after relegation to the fourth tier of English football Jake King, Kevin Ratcliffe, Jimmy Quinn, Gary Peters and Paul Simpson were given the task of trying to get us into the third tier, all of them failed and Graham Turner achieved it within 2 seasons (having narrowly missed out in the first). Quinn was found wanting to a large degree in the Conference too. Yes, we are truly grateful that we got out at the 1st attempt but had to rely on the lottery of the play offs when we really should have been up there at the top of the division but for several abject performances against frankly poor teams that raised their game for 90 mins against us.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2015 19:56:09 GMT 1
Quinn always divides opinion. He got us back into L2 at the first attempt which was a great achievement and one we should be thankful for. However he was found wanting in L2 and the opinion of some non league fans is that we got promoted in spite of Quinn, harsh perhaps but I can see why they have formed that opinion considering the budget he had and how far we were behind Chester. What is undeniable is that after relegation to the fourth tier of English football Jake King, Kevin Ratcliffe, Jimmy Quinn, Gary Peters and Paul Simpson were given the task of trying to get us into the third tier, all of them failed and Graham Turner achieved it within 2 seasons (having narrowly missed out in the first). Quinn was found wanting to a large degree in the Conference too. Yes, we are truly grateful that we got out at the 1st attempt but had to rely on the lottery of the play offs when we really should have been up there at the top of the division but for several abject performances against frankly poor teams that raised their game for 90 mins against us. Yep agree. Like GT in L1 (in the last 20 odd years anyway) we can't compare Quinn's performance in The Conference with any other STFC manager. But many fans on here have agreed that he was lucky that season and was ultimately found out at league level. Ironically a better manager than Quinn, who was not as lucky, might not have got us back to the League in that one season.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2015 20:12:47 GMT 1
Paul, your continued defence of GT in League 1 is very commendable, however it is defending the indefensible, GT cocked our stay in league 1 starting on Sunday 6th May 2012, and compounded that cock up 1 year later....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2015 20:21:58 GMT 1
Paul, your continued defence of GT in League 1 is very commendable, however it is defending the indefensible, GT cocked our stay in league 1 starting on Sunday 6th May 2012, and compounded that cock up 1 year later.... As usual Downie I haven't a clue what you're on about. GT full responsibility for last season by resigning, whether he was totally blame is another matter, unless you think it was a total shock that we were relegated with one of the lowest budgets in the league. What exactly was "indefensible" about our first season in L1, again with one of the lowest budgets in the league, having lost pretty much the spine of our L2 promotion side pre season.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2015 20:34:03 GMT 1
What was indefensible was his disposal of the side that got promoted the very next day after the promotion p**s up, then failing to replace these with adequate players. to then have to rush to get a long list of loans, and apologise in Jan saying he had got it wrong and we would not make the same mistake again, but to then following the lucky survival of the most boring style of footie witnessed in the history of STFC (subjective of course) to then head into the 2nd season worse than the previous season, then to even suggest we would still make the play offs on boxing day, to then resign 26 days later after it finally dawned on him we were on the way down, when most people had gathered that on day one of the season!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2015 20:49:57 GMT 1
What was indefensible was his disposal of the side that got promoted the very next day after the promotion p**s up, then failing to replace these with adequate players. to then have to rush to get a long list of loans, and apologise in Jan saying he had got it wrong and we would not make the same mistake again, but to then following the lucky survival of the most boring style of footie witnessed in the history of STFC (subjective of course) to then head into the 2nd season worse than the previous season, then to even suggest we would still make the play offs on boxing day, to then resign 26 days later after it finally dawned on him we were on the way down, when most people had gathered that on day one of the season!! 1) He didn't dispose of them, they left for far more than the club could afford or were prepared to pay. Half of those players didn't leave until well into the Summer by the way. 2) The rest of your post seems to be talking about the 2nd season again, when I'm not defending his performance but am saying the lack of support and resources he had was a factor. It sounds like you think that one of the lowest budgets in the league wasnt a factor ?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2015 21:10:32 GMT 1
yep because they wanted to stay, but he would not give them a rise and wanted them to stay on L2 wages.... funny how the club and Turner always stated there was money available if players were needed.
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Post by Matster on Feb 20, 2015 21:17:33 GMT 1
I thought that some of our players got offered one year deals and found better elsewhere. Candsell Sheriff was back off to Australia but got offered a good contract by a 'big' club.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2015 21:18:24 GMT 1
yep because they wanted to stay, but he would not give them a rise and wanted them to stay on L2 wages.... funny how the club and Turner always stated there was money available if players were needed. Can't compete with your insider knowledge i'm afraid, all of which I am sure is very reliable and unbiased. As I have said if you think one of the lowest budgets in the league wasn't contributory to our relegation, then good luck to you.
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Post by shrewed46 on Feb 21, 2015 10:57:45 GMT 1
yep because they wanted to stay, but he would not give them a rise and wanted them to stay on L2 wages.... funny how the club and Turner always stated there was money available if players were needed. Can't compete with your insider knowledge i'm afraid, all of which I am sure is very reliable and unbiased. As I have said if you think one of the lowest budgets in the league wasn't contributory to our relegation, then good luck to you. Paul, instead of trying to excuse the inexcusable with the constant reference to unproven facts, why not use the words of GT who admitted to cocking up, by underestimating the quality of Division 1. Equally he comment many times that there was money to invest in the team however he failed to make that investment. Clearly a manager more than satisfied with his budget. You constantly refer to "one of the lowest budgets" as if this predetermines where a team is likely to finish in the league, maybe we should look at each team's budget at the beginning of the season and forget about matches. Surely it is the task of the manager to do better than his budget suggests, something, I'd suggest, Turner failed to do in division 1
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Post by percy on Feb 21, 2015 12:17:02 GMT 1
To quote my 4 year old daughter "let it go, let it go".
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 12:32:22 GMT 1
To quote my 4 year old daughter "let it go, let it go". Drawing the line under this is evidently proving difficult for some I would hope and expect that the extensive root and branch review that the club has undertaken will make us much more equipped for the rigours of league 1 football next time around. Very apt quote from Lyndon B. Johnson: “Yesterday is not ours to recover, but tomorrow is ours to win or lose.”
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 13:09:01 GMT 1
To quote my 4 year old daughter "let it go, let it go". Drawing the line under this is evidently proving difficult for some I would hope and expect that the extensive root and branch review that the club has undertaken will make us much more equipped for the rigours of league 1 football next time around. Very apt quote from Lyndon B. Johnson: “Yesterday is not ours to recover, but tomorrow is ours to win or lose.” We didn't need a root and branch review because it was all GT's fault apparently... Quote Edmund Burke: " Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it" Let's see if we go into L1 next time with the same budget.
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Post by shrewed46 on Feb 21, 2015 14:15:22 GMT 1
Paul, Maybe you are aware of Harry S Truman oft quoted saying "the buck stops here" I have always taken that to mean if you are responsible for something (say a football team) how they do is totally in your hands.
But once again you return to the old chestnut budget. Do you really want us to believe that in 2012 -13 the Town had a significant budget than Yeovil, Crawley, Tranmere, Crewe, Carlisle to name a few, 4 teams that finished above us.
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Post by callum on Feb 21, 2015 19:46:08 GMT 1
If the root and branch is complete why is Jackson still here?
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