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Post by Carter on Apr 19, 2014 17:45:26 GMT 1
Out of interest - how many loan players has Jackson signed since he over?
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Post by shrewsace on Apr 19, 2014 18:11:40 GMT 1
Just off the top of my head
Atajic Storey Mendes-Laing Mills Miller Foley Iorfa
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Post by chameleon on Apr 19, 2014 18:11:52 GMT 1
Fyvie Atajic Mendez-Laing Mills Storey Foley Iorfa Miller
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Post by stfcfan87 on Apr 19, 2014 18:15:53 GMT 1
Fyvie Atajic Mendez-Laing Mills Storey Foley Iorfa Miller yeah only the 8. he's not had enough time to build his own team......
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Post by mrbunny on Apr 19, 2014 18:24:33 GMT 1
In his defence it was all he could do to try and salvage things.
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ercallshrew
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Perfect72
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Post by ercallshrew on Apr 19, 2014 18:28:20 GMT 1
What else could he do , no way to turn it was loans or stick with what he inherited which frankly was not good . So don't go painting him with Turners brush because of it .
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Post by callum on Apr 19, 2014 19:10:57 GMT 1
Has Mendez-laing gone back?
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Post by jamo on Apr 19, 2014 19:39:08 GMT 1
He was completely in a hole, under pressure of time and circumstance
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Post by stfcfan87 on Apr 19, 2014 20:10:20 GMT 1
he might have been left a weak squad, but his record in every area is worse than Turner's.
He's bought in 8 players on loan, yet won't even play some of them.
How long did it take before Atajic started? How many times has he started Miller? Or the 2 of them together?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2014 20:20:45 GMT 1
He was completely in a hole, under pressure of time and circumstance I think ambitious young managers would call that an opportunity, one that so far he has failed to grasp.
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Post by markglasgow on Apr 19, 2014 20:20:57 GMT 1
What else could he do? He was on a 5 game 'trial' so no way would he be allowed to sign anyone permanent.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2014 20:38:03 GMT 1
He was completely in a hole, under pressure of time and circumstance I think ambitious young managers would call that an opportunity, one that so far he has failed to grasp. Silk purse sows ear Paul?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2014 20:42:47 GMT 1
I think ambitious young managers would call that an opportunity, one that so far he has failed to grasp. Silk purse sows ear Paul? Yes but if MJ had at least made a plastic wallet, we may feel bit better about him carrying on...
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Post by shrewsace on Apr 19, 2014 20:43:47 GMT 1
I think ambitious young managers would call that an opportunity, one that so far he has failed to grasp. Silk purse sows ear Paul? More like a steaming t*** and a bottle of Mr Sheen!
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Post by mattmw on Apr 19, 2014 20:45:42 GMT 1
Actually checking to see if players were fit to play before signing them on loan might have been a good starting point
Signing any players at the back end of the season on loan rarely works - Robbie Turner anyone - but it's hard to see how any of the loans on that list have added to the side.
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Post by northwestman on Apr 19, 2014 20:57:08 GMT 1
What else could he do? He was on a 5 game 'trial' so no way would he be allowed to sign anyone permanent. Yes. And I'm of the opinion that it was no coincidence that the trial period ended after the January loan window was shut.
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Post by Carter on Apr 19, 2014 21:29:32 GMT 1
Agreed he had a sows ear but let's be fair he's turned it into a rotten mouldy sows ear...
He inherited a bad squad - FACT
He's made it worse - FACT (His points per game ratio this season is WORSE than Turners)
He's signed EIGHT players to make the squad worse - FACT
What's to say his next 8 signings will make it any better???
When the chips were down in January - who or earth thought appointing an UNTRIED manager, who was part of the set up that created the problem was to be part of the solution???
So what if he was good at the Q&A and spouted out all what he learned on the UEFA courses... ultimately that's made a WORSE difference to the product on the pitch...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2014 9:08:34 GMT 1
Agreed he had a sows ear but let's be fair he's turned it into a rotten mouldy sows ear... He inherited a bad squad - FACT He's made it worse - FACT (His points per game ratio this season is WORSE than Turners) He's signed EIGHT players to make the squad worse - FACT What's to say his next 8 signings will make it any better??? When the chips were down in January - who or earth thought appointing an UNTRIED manager, who was part of the set up that created the problem was to be part of the solution??? So what if he was good at the Q&A and spouted out all what he learned on the UEFA courses... ultimately that's made a WORSE difference to the product on the pitch... I have never read such an unfair reaction than this..... but opinions are fine
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Post by Matster on Feb 18, 2015 21:02:42 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2015 23:27:23 GMT 1
Letting Jackson take over after the departure of GT was the equivalent of properly scuttling a boat when it had only a few leaks in it resulting in it's inevitable sinking.
Hindsight is wonderful thing but on this occasion you could argue there was only going to be one outcome letting wacko jacko take the helm.
The correct thing would've been Turner staying on , keeping us hope (I think he would've done that), calling it a day and making way for Mellon to take up the reigns in league 1.
This current squad would do more than ok in league 1 but will it stay together??
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Feb 19, 2015 0:26:22 GMT 1
Letting Jackson take over after the departure of GT was the equivalent of properly scuttling a boat when it had only a few leaks in it resulting in it's inevitable sinking.
Hindsight is wonderful thing but on this occasion you could argue there was only going to be one outcome letting wacko jacko take the helm.
The correct thing would've been Turner staying on , keeping us hope (I think he would've done that), calling it a day and making way for Mellon to take up the reigns in league 1.
This current squad would do more than ok in league 1 but will it stay together?? IF Turner had stayed on, and IF he had kept us up, would he have called it a day? And would the Mellon situation have occurred - guess a lot of it was down to Jackson being out of his depth and RW wanting to find a solution which involved keeping Jackson on in some capacity. Hence the Mellon connection.
Had Turner stayed on it's very likely we wouldn't have had Mellon at all.
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Post by shrewd67 on Feb 19, 2015 0:30:01 GMT 1
Had Turner had stayed on we almost certainly would have been relegated. He'd seriously lost his way and there only ever seemed to be one outcome. Jackson was feeding off scraps when he over.
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Post by mattmw on Feb 19, 2015 8:22:20 GMT 1
I was pretty critical of the appointment of Jackson as temporary boss last season, but in some respects it has worked out ok
Had we made a rushed management appointment and spent big on 2-3 players there was no guarantee that would have kept us up, and we might have been stuck with expensive flops on the books
At least due to Turner's and Jacksons lack of full time signings we were able to give Mellon a pretty free hand to sign a new team to get us out of league two
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Post by bobbytheblock19er on Feb 19, 2015 8:52:05 GMT 1
Im Sorry to all the gt lovers out there . But he had to go . Should have gone sooner . That Rotherham game where we got slaughtered was the 5th home game in a row where we hadn't scored . We were negative , couldn't defend , and it was a complete mess . He should have stepped down when he kept us up the first year . And stepping down at the time he did leaving whoever over with no chance of getting permanent signings in , and a couple of days after releasing darren jones . After all this , and what he did to our club . To me and probably most younger fans the word legend and GT won't automatically go together I'm sorry . Whereas if Mellon goes on to finish 1st this season and not 2nd . That will be a better achievement for me . Having put almost all this squad together himself . Seeing what's gone on at places like Nottingham forest - having a new manager and new ish squad and then it going totally wrong , puts it into perspective what an achievement it would be .
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2015 10:46:46 GMT 1
GT just about held on to the respect he had earned over the years, but either he, the club or maybe both, should be blamed for not making the call sooner. Returning to his spiritual home was a good move, and galvanised both parties, club and manager when both were beginning to stagnate. Having got us promotion , he deserved a chance to guide us at the next level, but even he admitted that he did not realise the strength of the League we were now in. And this after campaigning in the very same league with a club punching way above its weight a few seasons before. A number of points made up my mind that he was now a square peg in a hole of his own making. This sudden realisation, and being stupid enough to tell it to the press. His poor management of Darren Jones, and the very poor timing of his demise, knowing that he himself would follow. Why shaft the club you have served for so many years. The introduction of an 80 year old who taught body building to bodybuilders 40 odd years ago, and knew nothing about the fitness regimes of present day pro players. His tactics and dour acknowledgement when any player deserved a pat on the back. He must have been a joy to work for.
The club did well to retain Jackson and saw the bigger picture.. And hopefully will reap the benefits come seasons end.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2015 11:24:47 GMT 1
Im Sorry to all the gt lovers out there . But he had to go . Should have gone sooner . That Rotherham game where we got slaughtered was the 5th home game in a row where we hadn't scored . We were negative , couldn't defend , and it was a complete mess . He should have stepped down when he kept us up the first year . And stepping down at the time he did leaving whoever over with no chance of getting permanent signings in , and a couple of days after releasing darren jones . After all this , and what he did to our club . To me and probably most younger fans the word legend and GT won't automatically go together I'm sorry . Whereas if Mellon goes on to finish 1st this season and not 2nd . That will be a better achievement for me . Having put almost all this squad together himself . Seeing what's gone on at places like Nottingham forest - having a new manager and new ish squad and then it going totally wrong , puts it into perspective what an achievement it would be . Agree with some of that but to add a couple more points. Hartlepool are showing how relegation can lead to a disastrous downward slide so I for one will be first in the queue to laud Mellon for any kind of promotion he achieves this season. However, some perspective is needed on the situation he inherited. His words, not mine, he was pleased to have the chance to form his own team... how many new managers get that chance when they take over? I would predict Mellon will have more GT reign players in his team come May than GT had Simpson's at the end of 2011/2. Oh and by the way, there were a group of youngsters who were under contract or open to contractual negotiations... Taylor, Goldson, Woods, Wildig, Bradshaw and Grandison... at least a million pounds worth of talent I think most would agree! Add to that one of the best budgets in the division and I would say many managers would have had fancied that challenge.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2015 11:27:14 GMT 1
Not sure what the point is of the last 2 but one posts other than to have another belated dig at Graham Turner. Thought we had moved on from this old debate which had more than enough air time at the time.
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Post by TheFoz on Feb 19, 2015 12:23:05 GMT 1
I'm not having this "Turner should have gone after he kept us up".
16th place finish in our first season in League One is more than respectable.
We got our foot in the door and we had a good platform to build on.
Turner did well to get rid of the " deadwood" it was just who he got in.
Our summer signings were Mkandawire,Winfield,Marsden and McQuade and once the transfer window closed, we all knew we were in for a struggle.
All in the past now, Mellon has built a very good squad and that relegation might be the best thing to happen to this club.
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Post by shrewed46 on Feb 19, 2015 14:45:03 GMT 1
I'm not having this "Turner should have gone after he kept us up". 16th place finish in our first season in League One is more than respectable. I'm afraid I disagree with you. 16th may have been a respectable position to finish in but the way we achieved it was anything but acceptable. The football was boring and unattractive players were brought in on short loan contracts. It was clear in August that the team to compete in Division 1 was weaker than the one that had just got promoted. By November it was obvious we were going to struggle. Turner had once again proved himself an excellent Division 2 manager, but was once again failing at the higher level. In my opinion, which I expressed at the time, November 2012 was the time GT should have resigned the fact that he waited another 14 months and choose the worst possible time to go does in my mind damage his legend status.
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pkd
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Post by pkd on Feb 19, 2015 14:46:51 GMT 1
What if...
What if we had gone up at the end of GT's first season? (We should have done, and only a cross-eyed linesman denied us.)
Then the players that GT had got in earlier that season would still have had another 12 months on their contracts. So we'd have had the likes of Sharps, SCS, Collins etc for our first season in League 1.
How would we have got on? Better, I would guess, and it would have given GT a chance to assess the new standard, and then recruit & replace in a more perceptive manner.
Or then again, maybe not. Recruiting seemed to become a unachievable skill for him, and his loan ranging was either unlucky or totally uninspired.
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