teamof79
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 247
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Post by teamof79 on Aug 16, 2011 22:59:01 GMT 1
Turner stated proudly pre season that this was "his team".Now we are 3 games in and looking at changes.this together with his reluctance to react proactively with substitutions quickly enough is starting to bring back the feelings I had towards Simpson. Have we really progressed under Turner,or is it proving to be yet another false dawn.
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Post by Scarecrow on Aug 16, 2011 23:01:38 GMT 1
Turner is better than Simpson. I can't believe I'm hearing this. If we'd have won tonight then everything would be roses.
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Aug 16, 2011 23:01:59 GMT 1
Turner stated proudly pre season that this was "his team".Now we are 3 games in and looking at changes.this together with his reluctance to react proactively with substitutions quickly enough is starting to bring back the feelings I had towards Simpson. Have we really progressed under Turner,or is it proving to be yet another false dawn. Please take an early night and get a good sleep. Revise your thoughts in the morning when today isn't so fresh in the mind.
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teamof79
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 247
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Post by teamof79 on Aug 16, 2011 23:02:51 GMT 1
Yes but we did'nt win !
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2011 23:07:59 GMT 1
Look at the two respective managerial records and you have your answer
However Turner is human so isnt perfect
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Post by Pilch on Aug 16, 2011 23:18:13 GMT 1
Turner is better than Simpson. I can't believe I'm hearing this. If we'd have won tonight then everything would be roses. if that argument allowed both ways ? if we beat crewe saturday can we say turner out, 2 points from 4 games had we lost today (sat) ;D
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Post by Shrewed on Aug 16, 2011 23:18:41 GMT 1
Look at the two respective managerial records and you have your answer However Turner is human so isnt perfect Paul a serious question how long do you think Turner would have survived at Hereford if he hadn't been the Chairman too? By the way you'd not be surprised if I said Turner is better than Simpson.
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Post by R6ix on Aug 16, 2011 23:23:41 GMT 1
he may be better than simpson but time is telling he is not as good as many other managers with lesser resources at the moment,look at last season, rochdale,wycombe ect gained promotion with a lot less at their disposal than us!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2011 1:08:44 GMT 1
XD you are like that fan on 606 who said Ferguson could of done more for Man United, Savage gave him a right telling and you deserve one, We need a few more players on loan and he needs to make earlier changes but the tactics are better and better signings with little cash
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2011 12:41:36 GMT 1
Look at the two respective managerial records and you have your answer However Turner is human so isnt perfect Paul a serious question how long do you think Turner would have survived at Hereford if he hadn't been the Chairman too? By the way you'd not be surprised if I said Turner is better than Simpson. Honestly I dont know and neither do you Im going on his managerial record as a whole so great success with us and Wolves, plus some success with Hereford although over a longer period of time. Compare that to one season of success with Carlisle for Simpson
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2011 12:55:02 GMT 1
Its all talk about the past...........yeah Turner was great years and years ago (we all would agree with that)But how long has he got now living off the past glories??? I think GT faces a massive season.....but he has proved again and again that he can work well in high pressure situations and I believe he will perform again here.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2011 12:56:56 GMT 1
Yes
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Post by roberto02afcct on Aug 17, 2011 13:07:37 GMT 1
Doom & gloom. We should sush up and start cheering on the boys on match day as the lads need the support now more then ever
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Post by ssshrew on Aug 17, 2011 13:28:49 GMT 1
Yes
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Post by shrewsace on Aug 17, 2011 13:32:22 GMT 1
Yes, of course he's better than Simpson. Turner led us to our best finish since we were relegated to this division on '97 , Simpson qualified for the play-offs by virtue of points deductions elsewhere.
That said, whether Turner has made the right signings to take us to the next level (ie, a top three berth) remains to be seen.
Was our pre-season preparation adequate?
Is Richards good enough to bring an extra, attacking dimension to our midfield?
Is Morgan more effective than Harrold?
Time will tell.
And please stop this 'get behind 'em' nonsense. Discussing the team on here and vocally supporting them on match days are not mutually exclusive.
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Post by davycrockett on Aug 17, 2011 14:02:46 GMT 1
Trouble is he's built a team to challenge this season that many are saying is not strong enough and needs some fresh players in key positions (and have been saying this for months) So how come GT didn't fill these key positions so that we were ready to compete from day1 !
We had a fair season last year but still couldn't compete with clubs with much much less resource like Torquay, Accrington and Stevenage which can only be put down to poor management but I'm not sure at what level ..........
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Post by suttonshrew on Aug 17, 2011 14:30:10 GMT 1
yes he is, and the reason for that is because he has the club at heart, the only thing simo cared about was the money.
saying that as with any manager he will be scored on how his team gets on and just because hes a town legend he will get no preferential treatment from the fans imo, if anything bringing him back has led to bigger expectations than if we had appointed someone who had no links to the club. after 10 games you can start to see the league take shape and remember the windows still open for imporvements and turners not the sort of manager who will sit back and watch us struggle.
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Post by shrewblue on Aug 17, 2011 15:21:03 GMT 1
Much better than Simpson....the league is a marathon as has been said before and its where you finish the season not how you start thats the critical factor....... just relax and let the professionals assess and change what needs changing to get a winning team...its far less stressful that way!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2011 16:30:16 GMT 1
well imo so far they are as bad as each other and niether actually achieved jack s**t for the club.
despite all the hipe and cringe worthy worship that went on when turner came back, what has he actually achieved?
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Aug 17, 2011 16:37:30 GMT 1
well imo so far they are as bad as each other and niether actually achieved jack s**t for the club. despite all the hipe and cringe worthy worship that went on when turner came back, what has he actually achieved? Towns highest points total in years. I appreciate that we set high standards, and even the manager and chairman continually state promotion as their aim, but we don't have a divine right to be playing league one football. Also, Turner hasn't alienated half the squad, insulted the supporters, and still has a good working relationship with the man above him.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2011 16:50:17 GMT 1
Towns highest points total in years. I appreciate that we set high standards, and even the manager and chairman continually state promotion as their aim, but we don't have a divine right to be playing league one football. Also, Turner hasn't alienated half the squad, insulted the supporters, and still has a good working relationship with the man above him. You are right of coarse, but what actually did that grand points total achieve? As good as it was it didnt achieve anything because we wherent good enough. dont get me wrong, i always considered simpson a s**t manager and an utter cock to boot, but frankly i would be happy to be personally insulted by the manager every weekend and the manager chairman hate each other providing the results wet right on the pitch.
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Post by Bob Rickerton on Aug 17, 2011 16:50:19 GMT 1
well imo so far they are as bad as each other and niether actually achieved jack s**t for the club. despite all the hipe and cringe worthy worship that went on when turner came back, what has he actually achieved? Strange post. Not sure what your problem is with people being excited about the return of a club legend, but it's been apparent in many of your posts. Leaving aside that, I think the vast majority of fans are appreciative of the largely excellent job Turner did last season, even if you can crudely analyse Turner and Simpson as equals by virtue of the fact that we're still in League 2. Obviously this season's a big one for Turner, and the analysis of his abilities may be very different by the end of it, but the question asked in the thread title's a ridiculous one to be asking three games into the season.
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gtasker
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 102
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Post by gtasker on Aug 17, 2011 19:43:22 GMT 1
No and the facts are fairly clear
last season we finished 11th when considering only points taken against teams in the top half (which if we expect to progress this is what we should be doing) - 1.18 points per game
in 2008-09 we finished TOP vs teams in the top half - 1.68 points per game
many people criticise simpson for the players he let go, but during the middle of last season turner released Dean Holden - won the championship with Chesterfield and won plaudits Steve Leslie - released on loan performed well and now retained Robinson - sent on loan and allowed to play against us and also played well
man management - if turner is so fantastic - why does he seem unable to gain consistent performances and attitude from a number of key players, notably ainsworth. Tactics and motivation - very often in games when losing or struggling there never seems an option b, or it is left far to late, surely the art of management is the ability to pull ace cards, substitutions should happen over loyalty
simpson did focus on organisation of his teams even if a little negative in games, he was able to instill a well disciplined and organised structure
it is early - but this in now turners team as he says and hence if we continue to struggle he has nowhere to hide.
We can never forget turners past achievements for the club, but that was the past and no team or manager should live of the long and distant past we want success now not nights of reminiscence
I genuinely hope i am wrong and we go on to success this season, but the evidence at burton was a little worrying
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Post by pughywasfree on Aug 17, 2011 20:06:35 GMT 1
if we finish 8th or lower this season then it will be a big failure until i no were we will finish i will wait. we have had to many chops and changes let the man work his magic and if he needs a loan or two he will and he gets very good ones at that
in tuner i trust
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Post by markglasgow on Aug 17, 2011 20:20:39 GMT 1
No and the facts are fairly clear last season we finished 11th when considering only points taken against teams in the top half (which if we expect to progress this is what we should be doing) - 1.18 points per game in 2008-09 we finished TOP vs teams in the top half - 1.68 points per game many people criticise simpson for the players he let go, but during the middle of last season turner released Dean Holden - won the championship with Chesterfield and won plaudits Steve Leslie - released on loan performed well and now retained Robinson - sent on loan and allowed to play against us and also played well man management - if turner is so fantastic - why does he seem unable to gain consistent performances and attitude from a number of key players, notably ainsworth. Tactics and motivation - very often in games when losing or struggling there never seems an option b, or it is left far to late, surely the art of management is the ability to pull ace cards, substitutions should happen over loyalty simpson did focus on organisation of his teams even if a little negative in games, he was able to instill a well disciplined and organised structure it is early - but this in now turners team as he says and hence if we continue to struggle he has nowhere to hide. We can never forget turners past achievements for the club, but that was the past and no team or manager should live of the long and distant past we want success now not nights of reminiscence I genuinely hope i am wrong and we go on to success this season, but the evidence at burton was a little worrying Some very silly points made here. We didn't finish 11th, we finished 4th. Points count against all 23 other clubs in the league not just the top half. If we were so good in 2008-09 versus the top sides in league 2 then it doesn't take Einstein to work out why we didn't get promoted that season. Yep, we were awful against weaker opponents situated in the bottom half. As for the players released by Turner. I don't think that there would ever be a huge campaign to bring back Holden or Robinson. Leslie cannot make the bench and will be very much a bit part player this season unless something dramatic happens. Not sure if any of us are best placed to comment on either Turners or Simpsons man management skills. I have my own thoughts on the this but again these are based purely on what I've heard from players and staff second hand. Not sure that I could agree that Simpson's sides were more 'disciplined' or 'structured'. His brand of football was often turgid and uninspiring despite some early promise (will always fondly remember the 7-0 matches). As a fan of open attractive football then I give me Turner's vision of how football should be played any day of the week. Still quite amazed how one result so early in season can spark so much doubt and disillusionment. Feel for the 300 odd who forked out to go last night but I'm sure the vast majority of these supporters would also have been at Derby and will know exactly what we are capable of.
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Post by africanshrew on Aug 17, 2011 20:46:37 GMT 1
No and the facts are fairly clear last season we finished 11th when considering only points taken against teams in the top half (which if we expect to progress this is what we should be doing) - 1.18 points per game But teams don't get promoted on this basis so why does it matter?! Turner ain't perfect but if I wanted perfection then STFC was a pretty draft place to start! He's way better than Simmo and getting all wound up after 3 games ain't worth it. Bet things look much better by end Sept.
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Post by Jonah on Aug 17, 2011 22:44:05 GMT 1
well imo so far they are as bad as each other and niether actually achieved jack s**t for the club. despite all the hipe and cringe worthy worship that went on when turner came back, what has he actually achieved? Correct Matron
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Post by jonbond on Aug 17, 2011 22:57:13 GMT 1
Like asking who is better Bill Shankley or Graeme Souness.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2011 23:44:35 GMT 1
or Gadafi or JFK
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2011 13:18:30 GMT 1
well imo so far they are as bad as each other and niether actually achieved jack s**t for the club. despite all the hipe and cringe worthy worship that went on when turner came back, what has he actually achieved? Correct Matron If you purely want to see it in black and white then yes they have achieved the same in that the they did not win promotion However how anyone could not see the difference and improvement between last season and Simpsons tenure is beyond me.
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