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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2011 11:12:57 GMT 1
Most of you know that Bolton are my team. This actually happened. In 1997 during the first game at the Reebok Stadium against Everton, Gerry Taggart had a header that dropped comfortably behind the line before getting hoofed clear. A certain goal and SKY TV used their virtual images to prove it beyond doubt. It wasn't given and the game finished 0-0. On the last day of that season 1997-98, Everton had to better Bolton's result or they would have been relegated from the Premier League. Bolton lost 0-2 at Stamford Bridge and Everton drew 1-1 at home to Coventry. We went down on GOAL DIFFERENCE! To this day, I hate Everton with a passion. Can't remember the ref's name but I tell you... it still hurts now 13 years later. Let's hope we're not painting a similar picture a week on Saturday. COYB!
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Post by shrewswolf on Apr 28, 2011 11:18:46 GMT 1
Its a funny old game, I'm sure we wouldn't have gone on to win at Rotherham and Bradford had we ran out 1-0 winners vs Wycombe, 2 more points on the board would mean going into such games with a different approach I'm sure. Despite telling myself this, I still find myself fuming though.
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Post by Fingers on Apr 28, 2011 11:22:12 GMT 1
Most of you know that Bolton are my team. This actually happened. In 1997 during the first game at the Reebok Stadium against Everton, Gerry Taggart had a header that dropped comfortably behind the line before getting hoofed clear. A certain goal and SKY TV used their virtual images to prove it beyond doubt. It wasn't given and the game finished 0-0. On the last day of that season 1997-98, Everton had to better Bolton's result or they would have been relegated from the Premier League. Bolton lost 0-2 at Stamford Bridge and Everton drew 1-1 at home to Coventry. We went down on GOAL DIFFERENCE! To this day, I hate Everton with a passion. Can't remember the ref's name but I tell you... it still hurts now 13 years later. Let's hope we're not painting a similar picture a week on Saturday. COYB! Remember that well. That decision along with the non goal in the Chesterfield v Middlesbrough cup semi stick in the memory, oh and Lampard v Germany as utter injustice.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2011 11:25:06 GMT 1
Mendez at Old Trafford?
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Post by alex1993 on Apr 28, 2011 11:28:51 GMT 1
If i remember that was Rob Lewis was the linesman that didnt give that.
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Post by stockportershrew on Apr 28, 2011 12:07:10 GMT 1
Most of the examples above are for goals that weren't given. Some are understable mistakes - linesman or referees making instant decisions (deceived by the angle or the speed) or simply not being in a position to see and erring on the side of caution. What makes the Wycombe goal all the more annoying is that the linesman gives a goal when it seems to me he's in absolutely no position to see anything and therefore should not have given a goal he couldn't properly see (unless he has a bionic eye - which was obviously faulty that day)
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Post by Lord Ha Ha on Apr 28, 2011 12:36:11 GMT 1
Most of the examples above are for goals that weren't given. Some are understable mistakes - linesman or referees making instant decisions (deceived by the angle or the speed) or simply not being in a position to see and erring on the side of caution. What makes the Wycombe goal all the more annoying is that the linesman gives a goal when it seems to me he's in absolutely no position to see anything and therefore should not have given a goal he couldn't properly see (unless he has a bionic eye - which was obviously faulty that day) Hence the over riding feeling of being cheated.
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Post by northwestman on Apr 28, 2011 13:33:54 GMT 1
Just watched the Chesterfield v Middlesborough game on You Tube.
Ball was definitely over the line. THE LINESMAN GAVE THE GOAL. Elleray didn't. Utter disgrace.
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Post by ssshrew on Apr 28, 2011 16:06:12 GMT 1
Yes that is the problem with the Wycombe goal - he couldn't possibly have seen it. I sit in Block two and he wasn't anywhere near where he could have seen what happened.
If he could have seen it and just made in my opinion the wrong decision then OK I have to live with BUT HE COULDN'T HAVE SEEN IT!! Grrrrrrrrrrrr
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Post by Bob Rickerton on Apr 28, 2011 16:17:21 GMT 1
I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that for the linesman to award a goal, he has to be certain that the ball has crossed the line. This is what makes the Wycombe equaliser so infuriating in my opinion. Though examples like Lampard's and Mendes' show incompetence from officials, if they honestly felt that they weren't in a good enough position to decide (in other words they weren't certain) then the decisions become more understandable. How the linesman that day can have ruled with anywhere near a degree of certainty that the ball had crossed the line that day is beyond me.
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Post by ssshrew on Apr 28, 2011 16:28:28 GMT 1
Especially as the Wycombe fans behind the goal (with a far better view than any of us) didn't move to celebrate and neither did their players!
Bizarre - I am afraid that Mr. Wigglesworth should never be allowed to officiate at a game again.
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Post by Shrewed on Apr 28, 2011 18:12:07 GMT 1
It is time some supporters got over the wycombe result it's 1 -1 and yes the linesman made a mistake, its not the first time and it wont be the last.
Mistakes are made by the officials in every game some times they are against the Town other times they benefit the club, some fans (eclipsechaser) fail to recognise that over the years the Town have benefitted from dubious decisions.
When has a town player held up his hand and said you made the wrong decision ref, never.
Its time fans realised without a ref, there would be no game, and that like players and fans make a lot more mistakes than refs.
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Post by elmundo on Apr 28, 2011 18:23:27 GMT 1
This wasn't just a mistake, this was a serious case of gross negligence and professional misjudgement!
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Post by Bordershrew on Apr 28, 2011 18:39:16 GMT 1
This wasn't just a mistake, this was a serious case of gross negligence and professional misjudgement! Exactly. If we'd scored and he'd not seen it cross the line then yes a forgivable mistake, but to GUESS that he saw something is as El Mundo says gross negligence. He should never be allowed to officiate again, how can he be trusted not to invent more goals.
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Post by Shrewed on Apr 28, 2011 18:41:39 GMT 1
This wasn't just a mistake, this was a serious case of gross negligence and professional misjudgement! Calm Down Dear a mistake is hardly the end of the world. Lets put it into prospective, no worse than the push by Sharp on Monday which should have resulted in a penalty to Stanley.
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Post by shrewder on Apr 28, 2011 18:45:34 GMT 1
I firmly believe in the view that what goes round comes around and that justice will be done in the end. It may not happen soon but one day Wycombe will probably be done out of an important point. It might even be the point that means that they will be relegated next season.
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Post by Ned on Apr 28, 2011 18:45:36 GMT 1
This wasn't just a mistake, this was a serious case of gross negligence and professional misjudgement! Calm Down Dear a mistake is hardly the end of the world. Lets put it into prospective, no worse than the push by Sharp on Monday which should have resulted in a penalty to Stanley. One day you'll get the names of our players right.
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Post by Shrewed on Apr 28, 2011 18:51:16 GMT 1
Calm Down Dear a mistake is hardly the end of the world. Lets put it into prospective, no worse than the push by Sharp on Monday which should have resulted in a penalty to Stanley. One day you'll get the names of our players right. One day, if we a lucky, you will actually post a meaningful comment, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Post by elmundo on Apr 28, 2011 18:52:42 GMT 1
This wasn't just a mistake, this was a serious case of gross negligence and professional misjudgement! Calm Down Dear a mistake is hardly the end of the world. Lets put it into prospective, no worse than the push by Sharp on Monday which should have resulted in a penalty to Stanley. I didn't see this push, so can't comment. Or shall I do as the lino did and guess at what happened and make a comment?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2011 18:53:37 GMT 1
This wasn't just a mistake, this was a serious case of gross negligence and professional misjudgement! Calm Down Dear a mistake is hardly the end of the world. Lets put it into prospective, no worse than the push by Sharp on Monday which should have resulted in a penalty to Stanley. Can't say that I remember that incident but it boils down to a matter of opinion or whether the ref saw it. That is totally different to a linesman who fabricated a decision.
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Post by ssshrew on Apr 28, 2011 18:56:18 GMT 1
Indeed and isn't this the point we have all been trying to make - HE DIDN'T AND COULDN'T see the goal and that is a fact.
How can we be asked to respect refs when things like this are allowed to happen and there is not even an apology of some sort?
Yes of course we will get over it - we will have to and there are more important and serious matters in the world but it won't make us feel any better should Mr. Wigglesworth ever put in another appearance at one of our matches.
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Post by Ned on Apr 28, 2011 18:56:25 GMT 1
One day you'll get the names of our players right. One day, if we a lucky, you will actually post a meaningful comment, but I'm not holding my breath. I must say Shrewed, it is a surprise to see you posting on a football matter. Makes a refreshing change.
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Post by Shrewed on Apr 28, 2011 19:02:02 GMT 1
Calm Down Dear a mistake is hardly the end of the world. Lets put it into prospective, no worse than the push by Sharp on Monday which should have resulted in a penalty to Stanley. Can't say that I remember that incident but it boils down to a matter of opinion or whether the ref saw it. That is totally different to a linesman who fabricated a decision. The only difference in reality, for many on this board, is whether in was in the town's favour or not. Too many fans fail to recognise that during a game there are decisions which favour the Town and there are those that go against the team. My guess not scientific is these even themselves out over a period of time. I'd actually take more notice of fans opinions if they had held their hands up and said that not all penalties and free kicks gained by Holt and Davies were the right decision.
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Post by elmundo on Apr 28, 2011 19:10:08 GMT 1
Can't say that I remember that incident but it boils down to a matter of opinion or whether the ref saw it. That is totally different to a linesman who fabricated a decision. The only difference in reality, for many on this board, is whether in was in the town's favour or not. Too many fans fail to recognise that during a game there are decisions which favour the Town and there are those that go against the team. My guess not scientific is these even themselves out over a period of time. I'd actually take more notice of fans opinions if they had held their hands up and said that not all penalties and free kicks gained by Holt and Davies were the right decision. The decisions you talk of though are something that happen and the referee has to make a split second decision. For example, a player goes down, and the referee has seen them go down and has to decide if it was a foul or not. The "goal" that was given DID NOT EVEN HAPPEN, so it is different. The ball didnt cross the line, there was no goal and the linesman couldnt see it, so he SHOULD NOT BE MAKING A DECISION. If a referee doesn't see something, he doesn't give anything. The linesman screwed up, it could cost us. Yes, decisions go for us too, which is nice, but this one is far, far worse than many decisions that have gone our way, and it came about through gross negligence on the part of Mr. Wigglesworth.
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Post by Shrewed on Apr 28, 2011 19:27:57 GMT 1
The only difference in reality, for many on this board, is whether in was in the town's favour or not. Too many fans fail to recognise that during a game there are decisions which favour the Town and there are those that go against the team. My guess not scientific is these even themselves out over a period of time. I'd actually take more notice of fans opinions if they had held their hands up and said that not all penalties and free kicks gained by Holt and Davies were the right decision. The decisions you talk of though are something that happen and the referee has to make a split second decision. For example, a player goes down, and the referee has seen them go down and has to decide if it was a foul or not. The "goal" that was given DID NOT EVEN HAPPEN, so it is different. The ball didnt cross the line, there was no goal and the linesman couldnt see it, so he SHOULD NOT BE MAKING A DECISION. If a referee doesn't see something, he doesn't give anything. The linesman screwed up, it could cost us. Yes, decisions go for us too, which is nice, but this one is far, far worse than many decisions that have gone our way, and it came about through gross negligence on the part of Mr. Wigglesworth. Unless you believe that Mr Wigglesworth is a biased cheat, which I don't, he made a split second decision based on how he viewed the situation, he got it wrong just like a few decisions by the officials in most games. The result of the game was 1 - 1 and nothing you or the other biased town fans are going to do will change it. GET OVER IT
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Post by elmundo on Apr 28, 2011 19:29:34 GMT 1
The decisions you talk of though are something that happen and the referee has to make a split second decision. For example, a player goes down, and the referee has seen them go down and has to decide if it was a foul or not. The "goal" that was given DID NOT EVEN HAPPEN, so it is different. The ball didnt cross the line, there was no goal and the linesman couldnt see it, so he SHOULD NOT BE MAKING A DECISION. If a referee doesn't see something, he doesn't give anything. The linesman screwed up, it could cost us. Yes, decisions go for us too, which is nice, but this one is far, far worse than many decisions that have gone our way, and it came about through gross negligence on the part of Mr. Wigglesworth. Unless you believe that Mr Wigglesworth is a biased cheat, which I don't, he made a split second decision based on how he viewed the situation, he got it wrong just like a few decisions by the officials in most games. The result of the game was 1 - 1 and nothing you or the other biased town fans are going to do will change it. GET OVER IT He made a split second decision on something HE COULD NOT HAVE SEEN. End of story. You are probably the most anti-Town fan I have ever heard! But if that is what floats your boat!!
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Post by Shrewed on Apr 28, 2011 19:52:01 GMT 1
Unless you believe that Mr Wigglesworth is a biased cheat, which I don't, he made a split second decision based on how he viewed the situation, he got it wrong just like a few decisions by the officials in most games. The result of the game was 1 - 1 and nothing you or the other biased town fans are going to do will change it. GET OVER IT He made a split second decision on something HE COULD NOT HAVE SEEN. End of story. You are probably the most anti-Town fan I have ever heard! But if that is what floats your boat!! Out of interest how long have you been watching the Town? Being a Town fan does not mean that you have to be blind and only see one side of a game.
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Post by elmundo on Apr 28, 2011 19:58:24 GMT 1
He made a split second decision on something HE COULD NOT HAVE SEEN. End of story. You are probably the most anti-Town fan I have ever heard! But if that is what floats your boat!! Out of interest how long have you been watching the Town? Being a Town fan does not mean that you have to be blind and only see one side of a game. How long I have been watching the Town has no relevance to this whatsoever. I do not need to be patronised by your "I've been going 50 years" crap! No, it does not need you to be blind and only see one side of the game, but it needs you to be able to recognise mistakes, errors and negligence. Mr. Wigglesworth, on that day, was clearly incompetent and it could turn out to be a very critical decision. Yes, we have had our share of luck over the years, but this was a disgraceful decision.
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Post by WindsorShrew on Apr 28, 2011 20:15:42 GMT 1
I can't see why were making a mountain out of this, defenders, goalkeepers and mainly strikers have cost us more points this season.
This is part of what makes footy great...mistakes are made. I saw Duanne Derby score with his hand which won us 3 points once.....you could argue that we got into the play offs and eventually promoted with those.
Give and take.
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Apr 28, 2011 20:18:20 GMT 1
I can't see why were making a mountain out of this, defenders, goalkeepers and mainly strikers have cost us more points this season. This is part of what makes footy great...mistakes are made. I saw Duanne Derby score with his hand which won us 3 points once.....you could argue that we got into the play offs and eventually promoted with those. Give and take. I suppose the biggest sense of injustice is that it happened against Wycombe, and after 46 games it could be that one decision that separates the two sides.
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