saloplad
Shropshire County League
Posts: 22
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Post by saloplad on Mar 2, 2011 1:02:12 GMT 1
Ground Configuration & Stewarding
Instead of the club coming out with the official line on the ground stewarding & safety policy perhaps they need to look at some real life examples and realise that a) the current configuration of the stadium is wrong, and therefore b) their way of stewarding needs to be reconsidered.
The examples I quote now, not only come from my own experience, but also from what the stewards have also said to me, who have also stated that they see things are wrong. “We know it’s all sc***ed up but what can we do?” “ I’ve told them but they don’t listen!” for example.
They also mention that they advise their superiors that things are not as they should be, but their front line recommendations also fall on deaf ears from what I understand. They try to do the best job they can, but are hamstrung by some of the questionable policies set by those that don’t have to deal with difficult situation that they are often placed in.
Tonight’s example…
Knowing that the gate would be closed tonight, I, my 67 year old father and my 9 year old son decided to walk round early to the Powerleague bar to beat the crowds. We left the West stand before the 90 mins & arrived behind the Away stand before the final whistle.
We were told to wait there by a line of stewards (who to be fair were quite polite & professional). After waiting patiently for 3-4 minutes, we then had to endure ALL the away fans brushing past us, with some giving abuse (e.g. “We didn’t need even Lowe to beat you f****ng lot tonight!”) When eventually told we could move towards the bar, we had to walk past the away buses with everyone calling us W****ers, flicking the V’s, giving us the 3-nils etc, & banging through the windows. Thankfully it was us walking through and not some ‘fans’ who were really up for some confrontation.
(Incidentally I understand this is what happened with Chesterfield, which is what led to the more draconian west stand gate closures.)
I have to admit, I retaliated by throwing V’s myself back to them – as I would imagine a lot of Town fans would given the circumstances & provocation.
Five minutes later having settled into the Powerleague with a drink, I was then confronted by 2 stewards who advised me that I would be banned if I didn’t restrain myself from ‘provoking’ the away fans when I was being provoked myself. After tonight performance I was quite happy to shuffle away quietly for a beer, and not even think about seeing a Bury fan, but given the way the ‘fans/customers’ are herded around I was not given the choice,
Quite simply the club/safely officials need to take a step back, not be so pig headed and arrogant, perhaps admit that the way the ground is configured (away fans South stand anyone??), or the way the current set-up is stewarded is WRONG and thing again…
STFC LISTEN TO YOUR CUSTOMERS – At the moment I feel really unvalued by the ‘company’ and really wonder if they really do want my custom, as it not just the performance on the pitch that counts, but my matchday experience that will ultimately make me renew my season ticket, and at the moment it’s not very appealing regardless of the success of the Team…
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Post by Pilch on Mar 2, 2011 2:03:18 GMT 1
i rest my case
ive been trying to make that point myself not very well i must say but i was in that group being held a few weeks back
what had we won 3-0 tonight ? you might be posting this from the rsh
its so arse about face its unreal
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Post by stfcfan87 on Mar 2, 2011 2:39:57 GMT 1
Good initial post, as it properly explains the issues rather than people just going 'bloody gate was shut'
As I've stated, I just don't see the point in the gate. It stops the fans from the west stand walking through the away fans, but as your post clearly states, there is nothing in place to prevent home fans who are going to the power league bar from doing the same.
I ask again, why on earth was it decided that the best place to house the only pub / bar on the site was next to the away fans??
Are away fans even allowed in there? If not, that's just an added source of possible aggro too - here's a bar right in front of you but you can't go in.
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Mar 2, 2011 10:12:45 GMT 1
Does someone who feels strongley enough about this issue want to ped something for the zine...
What the currenty problems are What is happening each match What the solutions are...
Would make a good artical as week as after week we see stories about the gate/west stand/power league bar issues....
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Mar 2, 2011 12:01:42 GMT 1
Although I appreciate it must be a inconvenience to those who use the Power League bar, I guess there isn’t that many Town fans who do anyhows? The vast majority of Town fans are looking to get out and away from the stadium rather than to be back on the North Stand to the Power League bar. And as it remains only an inconvenience to a few then I don’t think anything will change. I am not sure it effects to many going to the game?
However, I have never understood why the away fans are based in the North Stand, never made sense to me.
I think it were Pilch who suggested a fence could be put in place from the South Stand to the main entrance? I agree with that. Filter the away fans through that gate and up and around to the South Stand meaning the supporters are kept separate. Might lose out on one or two parking spaces but I doubt that’s any big loss. Means home fans are not inconvenienced when walking around the home stands, no chance of encountering any abuse passing away supporters, should limit the chances of supporters throwing stones at each other, etc…
By the by, I am sure we have asked the club to give details as to why away fans are in that stand? Is that right, have they explained previously?
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Post by Pilch on Mar 2, 2011 12:18:52 GMT 1
Yes they have said The sun is in their eyes
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Post by SY3 on Mar 2, 2011 12:30:59 GMT 1
I certainly don't feel valued when i am walking in darkness and nearly tripping over when walking to the game. That pathway along the railway track at the back of Sainsbury's needs tarmaccing and lighting before someone breaks their neck. I know the club keep saying it is council owned, but come on even if it is will a few street lamps and some tarmaccing really hurt the coffers that much? Some people who make these decisions at the club seem to forget that it's us paying fans who keep them in a job, so i would appreciate to give a bit back to the supporters and at least ensure their safety when walking to the game.
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Post by stfcfan87 on Mar 2, 2011 13:17:27 GMT 1
I certainly don't feel valued when i am walking in darkness and nearly tripping over when walking to the game. That pathway along the railway track at the back of Sainsbury's needs tarmaccing and lighting before someone breaks their neck. I know the club keep saying it is council owned, but come on even if it is will a few street lamps and some tarmaccing really hurt the coffers that much? Some people who make these decisions at the club seem to forget that it's us paying fans who keep them in a job, so i would appreciate to give a bit back to the supporters and at least ensure their safety when walking to the game. That's a very good point. Apparently the west gate is due to necessary health and safety reasons put upon the club by a special advisory group - as someone posted on that thread, why is there no supporter representative on it - i.e. the group of people totally effected?? but further point why is this group able to cause an inconvenient gate to be utilised but can't do anything about the lack of lighting to an untarmaced path??
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2011 13:25:05 GMT 1
that path is absolutely terrible,
another point, in terms of segregating away and home fans is, why wasn't the control room built between the home and away stands?
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Post by forestryman on Mar 2, 2011 13:28:34 GMT 1
I certainly don't feel valued when i am walking in darkness and nearly tripping over when walking to the game. That pathway along the railway track at the back of Sainsbury's needs tarmaccing and lighting before someone breaks their neck. I know the club keep saying it is council owned, but come on even if it is will a few street lamps and some tarmaccing really hurt the coffers that much? Some people who make these decisions at the club seem to forget that it's us paying fans who keep them in a job, so i would appreciate to give a bit back to the supporters and at least ensure their safety when walking to the game. with respect, why did you not think to bring a torch? surely it wouldnt break the bank, maybe you have one already, and if as you say it is dangerous it shows a lack of concern for your own safety? i suppose another option to the lack of safety would be for the club to not allow people to leave via the gate and make them walk the long way around. maybe the club could shell out the few grand it would cost for a fence and lights, then also take resposibility for it's upkeep but i would rather see you use a torch and the club spend the money on players to get us out of the division. no idea what the solution to the gate is though
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Post by SY3 on Mar 2, 2011 13:42:43 GMT 1
I certainly don't feel valued when i am walking in darkness and nearly tripping over when walking to the game. That pathway along the railway track at the back of Sainsbury's needs tarmaccing and lighting before someone breaks their neck. I know the club keep saying it is council owned, but come on even if it is will a few street lamps and some tarmaccing really hurt the coffers that much? Some people who make these decisions at the club seem to forget that it's us paying fans who keep them in a job, so i would appreciate to give a bit back to the supporters and at least ensure their safety when walking to the game. with respect, why did you not think to bring a torch? surely it wouldnt break the bank, maybe you have one already, and if as you say it is dangerous it shows a lack of concern for your own safety? i suppose another option to the lack of safety would be for the club to not allow people to leave via the gate and make them walk the long way around. maybe the club could shell out the few grand it would cost for a fence and lights, then also take resposibility for it's upkeep but i would rather see you use a torch and the club spend the money on players to get us out of the division. no idea what the solution to the gate is though Brilliant. Well thats that one sorted i will go to poundland and get a torch, sorted. Now then how to we remedy the fact the pathway is uneven and very easy to trip on? Also, i am sure some women and vulnerable people use that path, and i have seen a few youths hanging out under the bridge before and after games. So how would you ensure the pathway is lit up and safer for said supporters? ( i am presuming a torch won't suffice for that one)
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Post by forestryman on Mar 2, 2011 13:54:51 GMT 1
with respect, why did you not think to bring a torch? surely it wouldnt break the bank, maybe you have one already, and if as you say it is dangerous it shows a lack of concern for your own safety? i suppose another option to the lack of safety would be for the club to not allow people to leave via the gate and make them walk the long way around. maybe the club could shell out the few grand it would cost for a fence and lights, then also take resposibility for it's upkeep but i would rather see you use a torch and the club spend the money on players to get us out of the division. no idea what the solution to the gate is though Brilliant. Well thats that one sorted i will go to poundland and get a torch, sorted. Now then how to we remedy the fact the pathway is uneven and very easy to trip on? Also, i am sure some women and vulnerable people use that path, and i have seen a few youths hanging out under the bridge before and after games. So how would you ensure the pathway is lit up and safer for said supporters? ( i am presuming a torch won't suffice for that one) I wouldnt, you obviously didnt read my whole post you have personal responsibility for your own safety dont use it if you dont feel its safe, call the police if a crime has been comitted. i have walked the path and i wouldnt agree that it is easy to trip on it, not unless i had been drinking or something
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Post by SY3 on Mar 2, 2011 14:09:00 GMT 1
Brilliant. Well thats that one sorted i will go to poundland and get a torch, sorted. Now then how to we remedy the fact the pathway is uneven and very easy to trip on? Also, i am sure some women and vulnerable people use that path, and i have seen a few youths hanging out under the bridge before and after games. So how would you ensure the pathway is lit up and safer for said supporters? ( i am presuming a torch won't suffice for that one) I wouldnt, you obviously didnt read my whole post you have personal responsibility for your own safety dont use it if you dont feel its safe, call the police if a crime has been comitted. i have walked the path and i wouldnt agree that it is easy to trip on it, not unless i had been drinking or something Well i disagree with you.
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Post by forestryman on Mar 2, 2011 14:16:04 GMT 1
I wouldnt, you obviously didnt read my whole post you have personal responsibility for your own safety dont use it if you dont feel its safe, call the police if a crime has been comitted. i have walked the path and i wouldnt agree that it is easy to trip on it, not unless i had been drinking or something Well i disagree with you. with which bit? you have an obligation to your own safety, why take the risk if you think it dangerous?
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Post by SY3 on Mar 2, 2011 14:34:54 GMT 1
I feel it is easy to trip on and i'm not the only one who thinks so - and no i don't drink before matches either. If i decide not to use the path, which sometimes i don't, then it will inconvenience me greatly as i sit in the West Stand and it will mean an extra 10-15 mins walking to the ground. Also for e.g. due to work i would struggle to get to the evening games if i decided not to use this path, so it could cost me ten mins of the match. Also, again, if i decide to stop using the pathway then it still doesn't sit comfortable with me that hundreds of other supporters will still be using it when it's not safe. It's obvious that supporters have an obligation for their own safety, but also the club should show they care about the supporters by providing safe and well lit pathways to the ground, and them refusing to take resonsibility for this doesn not make me feel valued as a supporter.
I am always with at least 1 other person when i am walking down that path, but i am sure someone more vulnerable may be on their own during a night game etc, so i would say there is a potential risk factor there.
How come you no longer use the path in question?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2011 14:39:46 GMT 1
I feel it is easy to trip on and i'm not the only one who thinks so - and no i don't drink before matches either. If i decide not to use the path, which sometimes i don't, then it will inconvenience me greatly as i sit in the West Stand and it will mean an extra 10-15 mins walking to the ground. Also for e.g. due to work i would struggle to get to the evening games if i decided not to use this path, so it could cost me ten mins of the match. Also, again, if i decide to stop using the pathway then it still doesn't sit comfortable with me that hundreds of other supporters will still be using it when it's not safe. It's obvious that supporters have an obligation for their own safety, but also the club should show they care about the supporters by providing safe and well lit pathways to the ground, and them refusing to take resonsibility for this doesn not make me feel valued as a supporter. I am always with at least 1 other person when i am walking down that path, but i am sure someone more vulnerable may be on their own during a night game etc, so i would say there is a potential risk factor there. How come you no longer use the path in question? SY3 , that is as wooley as the answer from the club, you have a responsibility to yourself, and what you have now done, is if you fall and hurt yourself, is provide any litigator with a defnce as you acknowledege it is unsafe, and still choose to use it.
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Post by forestryman on Mar 2, 2011 14:47:06 GMT 1
I feel it is easy to trip on and i'm not the only one who thinks so - and no i don't drink before matches either. If i decide not to use the path, which sometimes i don't, then it will inconvenience me greatly as i sit in the West Stand and it will mean an extra 10-15 mins walking to the ground. Also for e.g. due to work i would struggle to get to the evening games if i decided not to use this path, so it could cost me ten mins of the match. Also, again, if i decide to stop using the pathway then it still doesn't sit comfortable with me that hundreds of other supporters will still be using it when it's not safe. It's obvious that supporters have an obligation for their own safety, but also the club should show they care about the supporters by providing safe and well lit pathways to the ground, and them refusing to take resonsibility for this doesn not make me feel valued as a supporter. I am always with at least 1 other person when i am walking down that path, but i am sure someone more vulnerable may be on their own during a night game etc, so i would say there is a potential risk factor there. How come you no longer use the path in question? i have never used the path for exiting as i dont sit on that side, but i have used it on non match days. it isnt an official exit to the ground is it? but it seems that it is the clubs decision to let people nip out the quick way, to get home quicker. we wouldnt even be having this conversation if they hadnt, so in trying to help some supporters out, they open up a whole tin of worms about safety and lighting on a piece of land that isnt theirs. so what i am sort of saying is, instead of asking for more money to be spent , be happy that there is any access to the path at all?
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Post by Pilch on Mar 2, 2011 14:49:16 GMT 1
I think people don't really mind the state of the footpath Yes it's uneven but tread carefully Its the bit where the tunnel is that's the problem It can be a minefield
I have a decent torch on my phone and with my ankle boy I needed it yesterday
2 lamposts on the path should be a priority As a goodwill gesture if nothing else from the club and the council
I wouldn't mind betting they have both spent more than it costs arguing why they don't have to pay than it would have cost to install them in the first place
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Post by shrewsace on Mar 2, 2011 14:51:00 GMT 1
Re: the footpath
The legal issues are beside the point.
It would be nice for the club to treat the fans like their support is welcomed and valued, rather than an inconvenience to be grudgingly accommodated.
If we are a 'business', then what other business would dismiss their customer's concerns with the answer 'it's not our responsibility'.
Only a football club, who know that fans loyalty can be taken for granted can get away with it.
It would be a one-off investment in 'the fans', the one constant at any football club.
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Post by saladsaladsalad on Mar 2, 2011 14:56:04 GMT 1
If a path is provided to be used by hundreds of customers every week, it should be as fit for that purpose, just the same as a surfaced path outside the cinema/tesco's/wherever.
Bizarre that we've been at the new ground for several years now and the path/gate/lighting issues still havent been sorted.
Smacks to me of STFC trying to push responsibility onto the council when really they should accept it is THEIR customers who are inconvenienced/endangered and foot the bill, really don't think it would cost a fortune to tarmac and illuminate the relevant areas. Now we actually have STFC fans pushing the responsibility onto fans as individuals to provide their own lighting! Should we ask people to bring their own tarmac too?
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Post by SY3 on Mar 2, 2011 15:04:53 GMT 1
If a path is provided to be used by hundreds of customers every week, it should be as fit for that purpose, just the same as a surfaced path outside the cinema/tesco's/wherever. Bizarre that we've been at the new ground for several years now and the path/gate/lighting issues still havent been sorted. Smacks to me of STFC trying to push responsibility onto the council when really they should accept it is THEIR customers who are inconvenienced/endangered and foot the bill, really don't think it would cost a fortune to tarmac and illuminate the relevant areas. Now we actually have STFC fans pushing the responsibility onto fans as individuals to provide their own lighting! Should we ask people to bring their own tarmac too?
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Post by forestryman on Mar 2, 2011 15:18:13 GMT 1
would anyonre here fix the pavement outside their house? especially if doing so would mean you would have to take responsibility for it for ever? lightbulbs, resurfacing etc (not a one off expense at all) could you see sainsburys doing that? fixing the path on the a49 because the council havent done it? look at the state of the road into sainsburys, that is terrible and they dont seem to do anything either.
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Mar 2, 2011 15:20:34 GMT 1
What I find intresting is that the Super Blues raised 10k and just GAVE it to the club...
When we have fans groups just handing cash over for no benifit to the fans in general it makes you wonder...
Why could that not have been given to the club and say 5k of it ringfensed for improvements to access to the stadium?
Honestly what will that 10k be spent on, players? Improvements to the ground? Who knows... Unless I missed something in the annoucement?
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Post by onthetrain92 on Mar 2, 2011 15:31:17 GMT 1
What I find intresting is that the Super Blues raised 10k and just GAVE it to the club... When we have fans groups just handing cash over for no benifit to the fans in general it makes you wonder... Why could that not have been given to the club and say 5k of it ringfensed for improvements to access to the stadium? Honestly what will that 10k be spent on, players? Improvements to the ground? Who knows... Unless I missed something in the annoucement? Absoultely bang on there about that money, should be used for fans facilities not just for the club to waste on players fees or wages.
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Post by BelleVueShrew on Mar 2, 2011 15:39:06 GMT 1
I will post this one last time as I am fed up of saying it. Rather than moaning on here, I contacted my local councillors regarding the said footpath being overgrown with weeds and nettles etc back before this season started. My councillors informed me the footpath belongs to Network Rail and, in their experience, there was little chance of NR taking any responsibility and clearing the overgrown path. As a goodwill gesture, the council sent in their own team to clear the path. So, not the councils responsibilty and not the clubs. If people don't like it, then don't use it. How far should the clubs responsibility extend? Should they provide street lighting on Oteley Road? Should they make sure the hedgerows are trimmed on Oteley Road? Should they send out teams to clear the cycleway on Oteley Road of any broken glass? Should they provide pedestrian crossings at all the junctions on Meole roundabout? How far out from the ground should the club take responsibilty to provide a safer route in? Sorry, but I agree with Forestryman. Back to the gate and trying to gain access to the Power League, now on that I do agree a total farce. Even though it does not affect me, I think it is total codswallop. There is more chance of trouble doing what they are doing now by forcing people round the other way than ever there is letting a few Town fans into the Power League. Good initial post saloplad
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2011 15:40:51 GMT 1
shrewsbury town are a football club i have supported for 40 years, i never have particularly felt valued, i can honestly say it is not something that troubles me at all. they are not my life, i use them as much as they use me.
i also dont think that stfc should care what we think anymore than tesco, morrisons et al. my local tesco arranges its store according to a number of factors, what i think is not one of them.
my opinion is that at the meadow there is a way in and a way out. end of.
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Post by onthetrain92 on Mar 2, 2011 15:52:27 GMT 1
A lot of people both agreed and disagreed with me on this last time. Truthfully speaking to improve the matchday experience and by that I mean 1) Improve the atmosphere generated by home supporters. 2) Easier/quicker access to and from the Power League bar. 3) Making away fans less audioable. 4) Easier/quicker access to and from stadium for home fans. 5) Easier/quicker access to the club shop. 6) Making both ends a home end for the team to attack and gain support for every home attack from each end. 7) Intimidation possibly for the away goalkeeper and defence. Whats requires is to swap blocks 17,18 and 19 with the North Stand. Anybody who still wants a side view can still have one in blocks 13 to 16 or 1&2 or the Family enclosure as we never really sell out. What would be required is A steel roller door as seen at both Southampton and Stoke City to segregate the concourse. The toilets and Catering facilities are already in place. The capacity for away fans would be dropped down from 1,798 to around 1,224 I believe but only Hereford, Bradford and Notts County have ever brought more than than that amount for a league game. Some netting would be required to segregate half of block 17 from block 16 and maybe another little gate. Outside the ground the fence is still there and maybe a another gate to be installed for access to the footpath. Away fans maybe should be held back for 5 minutes like what happens at a lot of away games to allow home fans to disperse like at a lot of ground i have been too in the past. Anyhow that would be my solution to make improvements all round for home fans as we are more important to our club than away fans are. So therefore the club should be more biased towards us and looking after us. This above is just and idea, i'm not sure how viable it is but i'd do it if i owned the club and start it next season. If I win the Euro millions this is what i'll do.
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Post by Pilch on Mar 2, 2011 16:01:25 GMT 1
What I find intresting is that the Super Blues raised 10k and just GAVE it to the club... When we have fans groups just handing cash over for no benifit to the fans in general it makes you wonder... Why could that not have been given to the club and say 5k of it ringfensed for improvements to access to the stadium? Honestly what will that 10k be spent on, players? Improvements to the ground? Who knows... Unless I missed something in the annoucement? That's a good point that is Not sure who to be most annoyed at about that
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Post by forestryman on Mar 2, 2011 16:43:27 GMT 1
specifics aside the whole thread is interstig. what does "valued" actually mean these days? do people feel valued by the shops the use or other services and is that any different to how we are valued as supporters of a football club? should it be any different?
i dont feel valued by any company that takes my money, the only value i have to them is what i spend and they will only ever give the illusion that they value me by presenting offers in certain ways and so called loyalty cards.
Should a football club be any different these days? would it be giving itself an unlevel playing field by not spending all it has on playing staff?
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Post by grinfish on Mar 2, 2011 17:38:24 GMT 1
If it was litter-related, NR could be forced to deal with the issue through a litter abatement order.
If it's a safety issue, has anyone looked into the agreed rights of way and any legal duties enforced therein on the landowner?
Worst case scenario? Club together for a bit of the blackstuff and do some late-night vigilante resurfacing. Much hilarity would ensue if it was ripped up on safety grounds, no?
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