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Post by Shrewed on Jul 15, 2010 15:53:11 GMT 1
Gerry daley may know about football , tactics and players but wtf does he know about fans? footballers arent fans like the members on here or the normal chap going to the game. i wouldn't trust a players opinion on fans, over the actual fans themselves. on the second point, they may not look at a messageboard, but they will be well aware of whether a clubs supporters are harsh on their players or not. I think I'd prefer to believe Gerry Daly (note the spelling) than you. As I've said players decisions are based on money and prospects not fans. But of course you know better.
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Post by Shrewed on Jul 15, 2010 16:00:18 GMT 1
I was one of I suspect many when we saw Hibbo's name on the teamsheet at the beginning of last season and shuddered , but what a revelation how wrong we were and he went on to earn the club a few bob on his transfer to Posh. You obviously didn't remember him from his first season here. Out of interest how much money did the club make from Hibberts move to Peterborough I always though he went for free under Bosman.
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Post by monkee on Jul 15, 2010 15:59:25 GMT 1
Gerry daley may know about football , tactics and players but wtf does he know about fans? footballers arent fans like the members on here or the normal chap going to the game. i wouldn't trust a players opinion on fans, over the actual fans themselves. on the second point, they may not look at a messageboard, but they will be well aware of whether a clubs supporters are harsh on their players or not. I think I'd prefer to believe Gerry Daly (note the spelling) than you. As I've said players decisions are based on money and prospects not fans. But of course you know better. the world is not as black and white as you think. if a player has several options, do you not think the treatment from the supporters would not come into the reckoning? i do, and i have spoken to plenty of players over the years, they know the harsh crowds, even heard the words"i wouldnt play in front of that lot" from one seasoned pro(not said about us though). I would definately trust the opinions of fans, about what fans think, over what any professional footballer says. so yes, i do know better.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Jul 15, 2010 16:08:04 GMT 1
Who are the 'good' fans and who are the 'bad'? Lower leagues only please, I bet players never get abuse from the Kop or the Stretford End
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Post by Shrewed on Jul 15, 2010 16:08:14 GMT 1
I think I'd prefer to believe Gerry Daly (note the spelling) than you. As I've said players decisions are based on money and prospects not fans. But of course you know better. the world is not as black and white as you think. if a player has several options, do you not think the treatment from the supporters would not come into the reckoning? i do, and i have spoken to plenty of players over the years, they know the harsh crowds, even heard the words"i wouldnt play in front of that lot" from one seasoned pro(not said about us though). I would definately trust the opinions of fans, about what fans think, over what any professional footballer says. so yes, i do know better. You really mean that fans come above: Money Prospects Location Manager Other Players Wife/Girlfriends view Next thing you'll be saving is you wouldn't take a job at Sainsbury's even though it paid a lot more because you didn't like its customers.
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Post by monkee on Jul 15, 2010 16:12:12 GMT 1
the world is not as black and white as you think. if a player has several options, do you not think the treatment from the supporters would not come into the reckoning? i do, and i have spoken to plenty of players over the years, they know the harsh crowds, even heard the words"i wouldnt play in front of that lot" from one seasoned pro(not said about us though). I would definately trust the opinions of fans, about what fans think, over what any professional footballer says. so yes, i do know better. You really mean that fans come above: Money Prospects Location Manager Other Players Wife/Girlfriends view Next thing you'll be saving is you wouldn't take a job at Sainsbury's even though it paid a lot more because you didn't like its customers. didnt say that did i? why do you insist on reading things that arent there? Saving i would not take a job at sainsburys? do you mean saying? if the customers treated the staff badly in any job i applied for, i would think twice.
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Post by blum on Jul 15, 2010 16:38:19 GMT 1
Absolutely BANG ON Rob, I have said it on here loads of times, god help a Salop player who has a bad couple of games, if he does then he's burgered.. Stop the bleedin witch hunts, support the team otherwise they may succumb to the pressure like Simmo jr etc. These are OUR players FGS. Gerry Daly told me that the vast majority of fans make up their mind about a player after his first game and rarely change their opinion that was in 1985. Somethings never change. If you or Jonah really believe that players look at a web site before deciding whether to sign for a club you must live in cloud cockoo land. See, this is the trouble with some people who, a) can't read b)totally misinterpret things!!!! Tell me where I wrote about players reading B&A.. Do I put you in the a) or b) category?
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Post by Blue_is_the_colour on Jul 15, 2010 16:38:31 GMT 1
Rory Fallon -
We thought he was awful, ......and now!?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2010 17:40:52 GMT 1
Personally unlike those who seem to think that everyone we sign is the best player ever, I don't see MH as a WOW signing, currently I think the front line is weaker than it was last season when we struggled to pass 50 goals. Ed, Id love to know where all these posts are claiming that Harrold is the best player ever? As far as I can tell, this thread was created by someone who expects Shrewsbury to be able to autiomatically buy 30 goal a season strikers. He proceeded to claim our new signing is a 'dud' so a lot of fans defended the player and asked to give him a chance, is that so unreasonable? You are very quick to point out if people have a go at posters who might be slightly negative, saying everyone has a right of opinion. That is true of course, but equally people have a right to be positive without being shouted down Personally I find this thread hilarious. Peter Broadbent is well known for his strong dislike of Nathan Elder. Now he's injured he clearly dislikes Matt Harold so to try and get some 'evidence' of what a bad player he is, he goes and gets the opinions of fans who thought Elder was a decent player
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2010 18:15:05 GMT 1
Oh and Mr PB, if we are taking football fans opinions as gospel as to how good a player is then how about the below from a Wycombe fan I've said it elsewhere, but I think the Harrold signing is actually OK. Did well at this level for us - a 12-goal return is good for a target man, since actually putting the goals away wasn't really his job. Coupled with the fact that he'd have had little service in a Peter Taylor side set up to defend, and little else. Very reliable penalty taker too - and whilst some will sneer and go, "can't he score from open play then?", the fact is having a solid penalty taker in your team is a boost. Considering some people are wetting themselves over us having signed Strevens, whose goal tally even at his peak (i.e. for D&R, rather than Brentford where he didn't get a look-in) was 1 in 3 - compared with Harrold, 12 goals in 39 apps (all competitions), I really don't see this signing as a bad one. Plus you might even actually beat us, with the free goal that having one of our old boys will give you! www.thefootballforum.net/index.php?/topic/186707-shrewsbury-transfer-thread/page__st__60
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Post by PeterBroadbent on Jul 15, 2010 18:22:33 GMT 1
Peter Broadbent is well known for his strong dislike of Nathan Elder. Now he's injured he clearly dislikes Matt Harold so to try and get some 'evidence' of what a bad player he is, he goes and gets the opinions of fans who thought Elder was a decent player I don't dislike said player - just think he is totally and utterly useless. So useless in fact that he was sent out on loan to Conference team - where .... surprise surprise he ended up warning the bench. Therefore he was a bad signing. With me so far .....? Now I was horrified with the thread on the Brentford board not elated. My fear is that this could be the same story again. A bad signing in a position where we have had our fingers burnt very recently (see above) Who knows - but his record does fill me with much excitment. Will we see. I apologise to all for being the lone figure wanting more than below average mediocrity for our club.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2010 18:31:37 GMT 1
In not going to argue with Elder being a bad signing. Has anyone?
Although with a regular run of games and fans not shouting abuse at him, he may not be the useless carthorse you (and a lot of others) think he is. He's never going to be a superstar (we all know thats what you want), but he may actually do something for the team
My point is you have labelled this new signing a dud, based on the opinion of fans of a team he played for 5 years ago. Do you think thats fair? If your going by your logic then surely everyone should have been worried when Holt signed because a good proportion of Forest fans thought he was overweight, lazy and basically not a decent footballer. But of course he's a WOW signing
My point is how about you give the bloke a chance, watch his performances and then form your own opinion rather than descend into mass hysteria you currently are.
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Post by monkee on Jul 15, 2010 18:38:51 GMT 1
How about this Ant from Throbbing Gristle's mate on the SMS thread? ------------------ From my Wycombe season ticket holder mate..... I think our expectations were too high, potential is there but never really shone at Wycombe, I must admit there used to be a huge collective sigh of relief when he wasnt on the team sheet , solid penalty taker and pretty good finisher...if he gets the ball rather than standing around with a gallic style shrug to the linesman or ref..., if he gets good service could have a good season, _______________ Sigh of relief when not on the team sheet seems not so good to me - but then of course I appear to be in a minority of one! you had 5 cast iron statements in that post(not sure about the galic shrug): 1 potential is there 2 solid penalty taker 3 pretty good finisher 4 huge collective sigh of relief when he wasnt on the team sheet 5 if he gets good service could have a good season why did you cherry pick the worst one? maybe you missed this PB, could you answer it please?
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Post by PeterBroadbent on Jul 15, 2010 18:59:19 GMT 1
you had 5 cast iron statements in that post(not sure about the galic shrug): 1 potential is there 2 solid penalty taker 3 pretty good finisher 4 huge collective sigh of relief when he wasnt on the team sheet 5 if he gets good service could have a good season why did you cherry pick the worst one? Happy to have a go Monkee!! In fact they are ALL negative. Let me explain slowly .... 1. is negative - never fulfilled his potential - how long has he had? How many clubs? 2. any pro footballer ought to be able to find the net from 12 yards. we have good penalty takers - is that what we were getting a flipping penalty taker - heavens above? 3. 'pretty; good - I would prefer a good finisher, or even an excellent finisher myself - but each to his own 4.Overrides all the others - they were elated when he wasn't selected - didn't want him on the pitch 5. wholly reliant on team mates - no individual qualities whatsoever to turn a game through a moment of brilliance by himself .... hope that helps ... - so in the end I just went for the overriding one - rather than going for the whole 5 negatives :-)
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Post by monkee on Jul 15, 2010 19:03:45 GMT 1
you had 5 cast iron statements in that post(not sure about the galic shrug): 1 potential is there 2 solid penalty taker 3 pretty good finisher 4 huge collective sigh of relief when he wasnt on the team sheet 5 if he gets good service could have a good season why did you cherry pick the worst one? Happy to have a go Monkee!! In fact they are ALL negative. Let me explain slowly .... 1. is negative - never fulfilled his potential - how long has he had? How many clubs? 2. any pro footballer ought to be able to find the net from 12 yards. we have good penalty takers - is that what we were getting a flipping penalty taker - heavens above? 3. 'pretty; good - I would prefer a good finisher, or even an excellent finisher myself - but each to his own 4.Overrides all the others - they were elated when he wasn't selected - didn't want him on the pitch 5. wholly reliant on team mates - no individual qualities whatsoever to turn a game through a moment of brilliance by himself .... hope that helps ... - so in the end I just went for the overriding one - rather than going for the whole 5 negatives :-) helps me realize that you are the sort of person that can see the negative in anything. have you tried prozac?
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Post by theyesman on Jul 15, 2010 19:08:27 GMT 1
If you have a problem with ginger people PB, im sure we'll all understand
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Post by Shrewed on Jul 15, 2010 19:36:49 GMT 1
Ed, Id love to know where all these posts are claiming that Harrold is the best player ever? You are very quick to point out if people have a go at posters who might be slightly negative, saying everyone has a right of opinion. That is true of course, but equally people have a right to be positive without being shouted down. Paul surely we can have a little poetic licence, there are many poster who have used the adjective Great or Excellent along side signing for a player I'd suggest many have seen a maximum of twice. I agree with you entirely that both positive and negative posters should be able to express their views without having to put up with personal comments. Unfortunately too many of the positive posters seem unable to do that. I do not recall PB calling anyone a moron or telling anyone they aren't a real fan because he disagrees with them. Lets have rational debates it can only improve the board.
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Post by monkee on Jul 15, 2010 19:54:52 GMT 1
Ed, Id love to know where all these posts are claiming that Harrold is the best player ever? You are very quick to point out if people have a go at posters who might be slightly negative, saying everyone has a right of opinion. That is true of course, but equally people have a right to be positive without being shouted down. both positive and negative posters should be able to express their views without having to put up with personal comments. Unfortunately too many of the positive posters seem unable to do that. Amazing, you trot out the same old line when your argument is on the wobble (or in this case when you have been totally owned). Boo Hoo, they're making personal comments. you call people ostriches, and i am sure you told heavenly he was talking bulls**t the other day. you are happy to mix it when it suits you, but try and muddy the waters when you are on the back foot
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Post by Shrewed on Jul 15, 2010 20:11:39 GMT 1
both positive and negative posters should be able to express their views without having to put up with personal comments. Unfortunately too many of the positive posters seem unable to do that. Amazing, you trot out the same old line when your argument is on the wobble (or in this case when you have been totally owned). Boo Hoo, they're making personal comments. you call people ostriches, and i am sure you told heavenly he was talking bulls**t the other day. you are happy to mix it when it suits you, but try and muddy the waters when you are on the back foot Monkee I wish you made sense more often. You need to realise that if posters make personal comments then I personally will respond in kind, you seem to think that because others disagree they are entitled to end every posting with the word ARSE. Well its not going to happen. I will willing buy you a pint if you can find an original post where I have resorted to any other poster in a derogatory way. By the way the post was referring to PB not me and if you believe calling someone a moron is acceptable you have lower standards than I thought.
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Post by scooter on Jul 15, 2010 20:31:47 GMT 1
Surely the main point is that at Wycombe he was centre forward for a team promoted from this division. That is what we want to do, and he has already done it
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Post by siabod on Jul 15, 2010 22:39:42 GMT 1
Come on PB name a striker that is available and affordable that you would consider a good signing, you have been asked more than once and seem to have dodged the issue. (Perhaps you don't do positives). If you are old enough to remember your namesake you are old enough to understand the question, one name will do, two to form a partnership would be better. Remember affordable and available.
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Post by monkee on Jul 15, 2010 22:53:56 GMT 1
Amazing, you trot out the same old line when your argument is on the wobble (or in this case when you have been totally owned). Boo Hoo, they're making personal comments. you call people ostriches, and i am sure you told heavenly he was talking bulls**t the other day. you are happy to mix it when it suits you, but try and muddy the waters when you are on the back foot Monkee I wish you made sense more often. You need to realise that if posters make personal comments then I personally will respond in kind, you seem to think that because others disagree they are entitled to end every posting with the word ARSE. Well its not going to happen. qouite odd, you suggest that i dont make sens but you seem to have understood every word. when did anyone end a post with the word arse? when did i say that i thought that was appropriate? respoding in kind is fine, but complaining about it having responded in kind is like calling for gun control when you have shot someone in self defence. I will willing buy you a pint if you can find an original post where I have resorted to any other poster in a derogatory way. By the way the post was referring to PB not me and if you believe calling someone a moron is acceptable you have lower standards than I thought. not sure which post you are driving at, but calling somebody a moron is not particularly nice and i wouldnt like it. but again you make the odd assumption that i approve of it, where have i said that or even implied it? i think you are the one who needs to work on making sense if this post is anything to go by.
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Post by PeterBroadbent on Jul 16, 2010 7:56:20 GMT 1
Come on PB name a striker that is available and affordable that you would consider a good signing, you have been asked more than once and seem to have dodged the issue. (Perhaps you don't do positives). If you are old enough to remember your namesake you are old enough to understand the question, one name will do, two to form a partnership would be better. Remember affordable and available. I do do positives - and the signings pre MH seem to be this. However, I told you all about Elder - no-one would acknowledge this at the time (some still don't!) - and I am telling you about this latest journeyman. I more than anyone hope I am proved very wrong. As many have said - time will tell, and he may slam in 20+ and have us all on the edge our seats whenever he recieves the ball :-) Hope so! As for alternatives - nope I can't answer the question because I don't know know what our budget is do I? Nor do I know about of the thousands of players who could be let go, is not happy, is out of favour etc elsewhere. Nor does anyone on here. However I do seem to recall us selling a striker last summer for 450K having bought him for 170K - an issue debated many times on here. I also recall us bidding £100K a couple of times for Benson and O'Flynn. Maybe there will be more cheerful news today - as many seem to be indicating, and as I said in my post above ... I apologise to all for seemingly being the lone figure wanting more than below average mediocrity for our club.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2010 9:49:06 GMT 1
Ed, Id love to know where all these posts are claiming that Harrold is the best player ever? You are very quick to point out if people have a go at posters who might be slightly negative, saying everyone has a right of opinion. That is true of course, but equally people have a right to be positive without being shouted down. Paul surely we can have a little poetic licence, there are many poster who have used the adjective Great or Excellent along side signing for a player I'd suggest many have seen a maximum of twice. I agree with you entirely that both positive and negative posters should be able to express their views without having to put up with personal comments. Unfortunately too many of the positive posters seem unable to do that. I do not recall PB calling anyone a moron or telling anyone they aren't a real fan because he disagrees with them. Lets have rational debates it can only improve the board. Ed, I think there is a hell of a difference between calling someone the best signing ever, and saying its a great signing. Wouldnt you? You seem to be annoyed that fans are praising a player so much when they will have only seen then once or twice. And on the SMS thread you said: "It always amazes me that posters seem to heap praise on a signing when at best they have seen a player twice." Therefore I would assume that it also amazes you that someone posts so much criticism and ridicule on a new signing, also having seen them once or twice? Am I right in thinking that?
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Post by Shrewed on Jul 16, 2010 10:08:09 GMT 1
Paul surely we can have a little poetic licence, there are many poster who have used the adjective Great or Excellent along side signing for a player I'd suggest many have seen a maximum of twice. I agree with you entirely that both positive and negative posters should be able to express their views without having to put up with personal comments. Unfortunately too many of the positive posters seem unable to do that. I do not recall PB calling anyone a moron or telling anyone they aren't a real fan because he disagrees with them. Lets have rational debates it can only improve the board. Ed, I think there is a hell of a difference between calling someone the best signing ever, and saying its a great signing. Wouldnt you? You seem to be annoyed that fans are praising a player so much when they will have only seen then once or twice. And on the SMS thread you said: "It always amazes me that posters seem to heap praise on a signing when at best they have seen a player twice." Therefore I would assume that it also amazes you that someone posts so much criticism and ridicule on a new signing, also having seen them once or twice? Am I right in thinking that? Paul I wish everyone would only express an opinion on a players performance based on how well he played that game. Unrealistic I know. I get fed up with fans describing players as cr@p as much as I get fed up with people suggesting that xyz player is going to be the saviour of the club. I have tried and think succeed generally in not categorising a player as good or bad on here.
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Post by Shrewed on Jul 16, 2010 10:16:38 GMT 1
qouite odd, you suggest that i dont make sens but you seem to have understood every word. when did anyone end a post with the word arse? when did i say that i thought that was appropriate? By the way the post was referring to PB not me and if you believe calling someone a moron is acceptable you have lower standards than I thought. not sure which post you are driving at, but calling somebody a moron is not particularly nice and i wouldnt like it. but again you make the odd assumption that i approve of it, where have i said that or even implied it? i think you are the one who needs to work on making sense if this post is anything to go by. Monkee, I suggest you look at some of the posts of your friend Heavenly (I assume he's your friend as you quoted my comments to him) if you want someone who often uses the word ARSE. You only have to look back to the previous page of this thread where PB is called a moron. As for making sense I am still totally confused by the meaning of your statement "(or in this case when you have been totally owned).
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Post by siabod on Jul 16, 2010 10:21:55 GMT 1
Come on PB name a striker that is available and affordable that you would consider a good signing, you have been asked more than once and seem to have dodged the issue. (Perhaps you don't do positives). If you are old enough to remember your namesake you are old enough to understand the question, one name will do, two to form a partnership would be better. Remember affordable and available. I do do positives - and the signings pre MH seem to be this. However, I told you all about Elder - no-one would acknowledge this at the time (some still don't!) - and I am telling you about this latest journeyman. I more than anyone hope I am proved very wrong. As many have said - time will tell, and he may slam in 20+ and have us all on the edge our seats whenever he recieves the ball :-) Hope so! As for alternatives - nope I can't answer the question because I don't know know what our budget is do I? Nor do I know about of the thousands of players who could be let go, is not happy, is out of favour etc elsewhere. Nor does anyone on here. However I do seem to recall us selling a striker last summer for 450K having bought him for 170K - an issue debated many times on here. I also recall us bidding £100K a couple of times for Benson and O'Flynn. Maybe there will be more cheerful news today - as many seem to be indicating, and as I said in my post above ... I apologise to all for seemingly being the lone figure wanting more than below average mediocrity for our club. No you are certainly not alone in wanting the best for our club, this is the wish of every true supporter but you do seem to have a very pessimistic view of most things that are done to try and achieve this.
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Jul 16, 2010 12:57:55 GMT 1
Wycombe fan - "Harrold is a good hard worker, will do reasonably OK for a "second striker" but he won't be prolific. He always gave 100% every game for us so I wish him well"
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Post by LufbraSalop on Jul 16, 2010 13:26:36 GMT 1
Ed, I think there is a hell of a difference between calling someone the best signing ever, and saying its a great signing. Wouldnt you? You seem to be annoyed that fans are praising a player so much when they will have only seen then once or twice. And on the SMS thread you said: "It always amazes me that posters seem to heap praise on a signing when at best they have seen a player twice." Therefore I would assume that it also amazes you that someone posts so much criticism and ridicule on a new signing, also having seen them once or twice? Am I right in thinking that? Paul I wish everyone would only express an opinion on a players performance based on how well he played that game. Unrealistic I know. I get fed up with fans describing players as cr@p as much as I get fed up with people suggesting that xyz player is going to be the saviour of the club. I have tried and think succeed generally in not categorising a player as good or bad on here. Show me one post where you've derided someone for being negative (and tbh i think you'd struggle!) and i'll show you 20 when you've derided someone for being positive. If your so fed up with it why have you jumped to PB's defence and had a go at anyone that has been remotely (and in most cases fairly realisitically ) positive?
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Post by PeterBroadbent on Jul 16, 2010 14:39:45 GMT 1
II apologise to all for seemingly being the lone figure wanting more than below average mediocrity for our club. No you are certainly not alone in wanting the best for our club, this is the wish of every true supporter but you do seem to have a very pessimistic view of most things that are done to try and achieve this. Not most things at all - but do struggle somewhat with the buffoonery of last summer's transfer window - Neal, Simpson, Robinson, Bright, and the crowning glory 90K and 3 year deal for the priviledge of the conference bench warmer. All that has ruined the squad for a couple of years, bored us stiff last year, and got us to 12th place Also we let someone go too. Now, here we go again .... MW ... MH
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