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Post by rob on Apr 6, 2005 10:31:27 GMT 1
While I understand people might be insecure about their own beliefs or intelligence (he says and he can't even spell!!!)
However must people resort to needless name calling when someone attempts to post an "intelligent" post about their beliefs or something that maybe rather wide of the mainstream spectrum?
In two cases cynical Shrew and UK shrew (maybe one and the same) oh and that imp fan, they have been ridiculed through name calling etc for their far right beliefs.
Are we that stupid that we can't argue against a flawed ideology without resorting to childish name calling or post moving?
Now i know I'm going to ruffel a fair few feathers, but I've just about had enough of it. This board is here for people to express their opinions on whole range of topics, so long as they are neither offensive.
Now people will argue that these far right opinions are offensive, and they may indeed be politically distastefull, however are they really more offensive than calling someone a t**t or reducing the argument to pointless name calling? Or maybe posting up near naked pictures of women? Or the constant swearing (and yes I'm as much to blame for that one:-[)
My point is that if you don't like a thread, and the odds are that some people wont like what CS UK Shrew has to say, then ignore it and let the rest of us continue to debtae the merrits of their "intelligent" points.
Freedom of speech or expression (and I havent seen that much explicitly offenive) applies to everyone. It should be a basic human right for everyone, not just those with middle of the road mainstream beliefs.
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Wrighty
Midland League Division One
Posts: 465
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Post by Wrighty on Apr 6, 2005 10:37:07 GMT 1
This may be a first but I actually agree with you It may be a slightly different way of looking at it but I believe in freedom of speech without censorship unless absolutely necessary. Let people make their point and hopefully they will listen to ours. Anything libellous or just simply insulting should be removed but otherwise in my view let it develop!
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Post by ianwhit on Apr 6, 2005 10:45:38 GMT 1
Now i know I'm going to ruffel a fair few feathers, but I've just about had enough of it. This board is here for people to express their opinions on whole range of topics, so long as they are neither offensive. clique anyone
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Apr 6, 2005 11:05:16 GMT 1
I do agree that it seems a bit silly to dismiss cynical shrew's views on people based purely on their physical attributes
then in another post saying this weeks Soccerette is a minger because she doesn't have big enough boobies
It is when it gets personal that I am offended. I will debate many issues with many people,a nd will hold my ground if I have to, espeically on the religious debates that were going on a few months back.
But no-one cut me off or called me names because of it, and it ended up being quite a positive discussion despite many different viewpoints being raised.
Having said that, Cynical shrews regularly breaks the rules of this messageboard set down by pro-boards, and in that case I am all for deleting his posts
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Post by rob on Apr 6, 2005 11:09:45 GMT 1
yes deleate posts, edit them whatever, but is there really any need to deleate whole threads??? And I'm not saying you do Dave.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Apr 6, 2005 11:14:18 GMT 1
one problem is that a few months back moderators like me had the ability to delete individual posts. This was then taken away. I am not sure why but I think there must have been complaints.
that means if there is something offensive you have to move the whole thread, or edit the post
If you edit the post then it says "Post edited by" and the person involved then knows it is you, which obviously means there is extra pressure
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Apr 6, 2005 11:23:41 GMT 1
My opinian on both the pointless debats and posts like this are that they are boaring
This is a football message board for football people
Who cares about the BNP and the like
In Murrays hounor
Its all a load of b******s really!
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Wrighty
Midland League Division One
Posts: 465
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Post by Wrighty on Apr 6, 2005 11:58:43 GMT 1
I've said it before and i'll say it again, the reason I enjoy the board is because there are so many different topics and if it was just a footie board I would probably visit far less frequently as it would get dull, stale and boring fairly quicky
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Post by john on Apr 6, 2005 12:05:12 GMT 1
Rob, if I was a member of S.A.R.A and I just popped on here to have a look around and if I saw posts like UkShrews or CS's I might tend to think "oh thats the norm on here is it" "their all a bunch of BNP bullyboys are they"
They should be deleted/modified/banned etc. These people dont tend to post on anything STFC and when they do its only to have a pop at non white players.
Them being called names is just anger because a great many of us dont like what they say.
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Wrighty
Midland League Division One
Posts: 465
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Post by Wrighty on Apr 6, 2005 12:07:05 GMT 1
Ah but who watches the watchman
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Post by john on Apr 6, 2005 12:09:20 GMT 1
Dick Van Dyke so I heard
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chrisj
Midland League Division Two
Just get on with it.
Posts: 164
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Post by chrisj on Apr 6, 2005 12:13:37 GMT 1
My opinian on both the pointless debats and posts like this are that they are boaring This is a football message board for football people Who cares about the BNP and the like In Murrays hounor Its all a load of b******s really! Well the fact that every home game is a 200 mile round trip for me, yet I still get a season ticket every year, makes me a football person in my book. I care a lot about the BNP and all their little nazi pals. I'd be much happier if we didn't have to read their rubbish on this board, but as long as it's posted it needs dealing with. HMA, don't you think racist stuff is offensive? I think if you try to address the girlie pic or swearing thing, you may be committing an even worse crime than being a nazi - being 'PC'!!! As far as abuse/post moving is concerned, the problem with CS/UKS is that you can deal with his posts in a rational, logical manner, and he simply ignores what you've written and starts raving about something else. I really like the fact that this board has a range of opinion and there are some good rows from time to time, it's part of what makes it a real online community. And I'd like nothing better than to trash the racists using reasoned argument. This isn't hard because their position is philosophically nonsense; all I do is point out their lies. But they just use Goebels' strategy of repeating the lies ad nauseam and ignoring any arguments they can't deal with. That's why the posts get moved I think, because their refusal to engage in dialogue (and given the indefensible position they're trying to defend, it's not surprising) means you just end up going 'round in circles. I end up thinking there's no point in going to the trouble of setting out the facts and discussing them rationally as he never will, so I throw in a little abuse. It's not a lot of threads that get moved/locked, only a couple of those where the one individual (with two names) has persisted with offensive garbage. Put another way, if some Telford fan came on here and started posting every 5 minutes about how Telford was a bigger club and had a greater history, at first you'd take the rip, because it's obvious nonsense; if he carried on, then you'd maybe set out the facts to show why; then, when he still persisted, you'd get fed up and maybe ignore him as a harmless idiot. But if he actually caused some harm - say clogged up the board with endless multiple posts - eventually you'd not be able to ignore him and maybe have to ban him or delete his stuff. Is that denying freedom of speech, or is it the only way left to deal with someone who's messing it up for the rest of us? Personally, I'd go for a setting up a politics forum instead of that unused one. Of course if these threads are really so boring, you don't have to read them. I have carefully removed all the swearing from this post. ;D
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Wrighty
Midland League Division One
Posts: 465
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Post by Wrighty on Apr 6, 2005 12:16:36 GMT 1
Personally, I'd go for a setting up a politics forum instead of that unused one. Sounds like a good idea I have to say!
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Post by meoleshrew2 on Apr 6, 2005 12:26:53 GMT 1
Yep set up a seperate political/Cynic?Ukshrew room, just anything that doesn't let the racists take centre stage on a non-racist/non-hooligan/ STFC supporters message board.
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Apr 6, 2005 12:27:59 GMT 1
Sounds like a good idea I have to say! Actually i 100% agree - PILCH with the election this is a very very good idea!!!! That way if you dont want to read - polictical stuff and the raisit nonsence that seems to peg this debate it will not clutter up the main board!!! Can a moderate have a look into doing this???
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Post by meoleshrew2 on Apr 6, 2005 12:34:28 GMT 1
Good job this board is sexist, if we had a woman moderator then all hell would be let loose
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Post by Pilch on Apr 6, 2005 13:26:09 GMT 1
the terms of service of this board are nothing to do with blue and amber
they are set by proboards and here they are
User's web site may not contain content promoting the use of illegal drugs, alcohol, sex, pornography, nudity, or any other form of adult content, profanity, hate, "spam," fraud, racism, mlm, pyramid schemes, or promote any illegal activity. User's message board and Web site must be in English.
when racist posts etc are deleted it is because the board may get shut down if we ignore them
when arguments get a bit heated its best to put a stop to it as in the past it has led to members being threatened and others leaving
we dont want that either
i sometimes delete double posts eg if someone has posted a latest score and someone else also posts the same
there is no point having both
we wipe posts if someone floods the board with rubbish
oh and i forgot to mention, the admin decided earlier this week to...
delete all cynical shrews posts from now on until he apologises for past violations of the rules
he knows this is the case and its up to him
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 6, 2005 14:05:02 GMT 1
Maybe I've missed the worst of them but I don't actually recall reading anything that I would class as racism on this board? Now whatever we think of the BNP, stating your support for the BNP and their policies is not racism.
I actually think those who have supported the BNP on B&A have put their arguments over very well, just because I don't agree with their arguments doesn't mean I'm going to ridicule or remove their posts. They have their political beliefs and that’s fair enough int it. I guess we can't be sure whether the posts are all by the same poster an all I suppose?
I'd be interested to see the posts that have been removed to be honest, be interesting to see (and I'm not having a knock here) what the powers that be on this board consider to be a racist post. Could be the worst has been removed before I've had team to read it, mind...so I could be talking crap... ;D
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Post by Pilch on Apr 6, 2005 14:16:49 GMT 1
i know taking about the bnp does equal a racist post which is why there is a good old debate about bnp in the archive for all to see
some of cynical early posts were blatently racist and have long gone
once again
i have opened the dodgy room so member can have a look to see what has gone it
not all posts sent to the dodgy room are still in there as it gets wiped now and again
feedback on posts in there will be appreciated for future use of the room
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Post by jamo on Apr 6, 2005 14:33:32 GMT 1
I welcome the fact that this board is open to a wide and varied collection of topics. This i believe is one of its main strenths.
Why should people who want to discuss politics or anything else be shuffled of on to some side alley ? If people don't like the thread then stop reading it.
It is and will remain a football dominted site but don't take away it's diversity.
BTW. I seem to remember plenty of name calling in the past from H.M.A in his various guises. Is this a csae of double standards or just maturity ?
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Post by rob on Apr 6, 2005 15:18:15 GMT 1
Indeed I am prone to the odd bit of name calling (just last week in fact with whitters) but then I can think of instances when many other members have partaken in some name calling (even yourself Jamo) However if their is an intellectual debate raging, i dont feel the need to jump in and call one of the proponents X Y or Z. Maybe I've grown up a bit, maybe I'm just another hypocrite??? I do not believe the non footballing debates/posts should be shunted onto another board. there is more to life than football and as big and varied and interesting the world of football is, I think we'd all get pretty bored if people were disuaded from posting about other topics. Open your mind Glyn, you never know you might learn something As for racism, Stutty put it quite perfectly, I havent seen anything that is overtly racist. What I have seen is intellectual points, no matter how flawed they may be, put in an amicable form only to be shouted down. As for people looking at the board and seeing BNP and tarring us with the same brush, well sorry Jp, i would like to think said people would take a look at the threads mentioned, they then might see that it is merely one or two isolated guests who have these beliefs, and that they are not shared by the rest of the board. I do think that by and large the mods do a good job But lets not be over zelous P.S I would also like to add Chris J that if you stood near me on the terrace you would know that I detest the biggots and racists at the back of the riverside and am normally one of the first to boo them sown (i've also made a complaint to the stewards about it before), my family has also been directly affected by religious hatred and racism. I do find racism offensive, however there is a subtle difference between shouting it in an abusive form and writting about a far right political point in an intellectual maner
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Apr 6, 2005 15:33:26 GMT 1
Indeed I am prone to the odd bit of name calling (just last week in fact with whitters) but then I can think of instances when many other members have partaken in some name calling (even yourself Jamo) However if their is an intellectual debate raging, i dont feel the need to jump in and call one of the proponents X Y or Z. Maybe I've grown up a bit, maybe I'm just anot her hypocrite??? I do not believe the non footballing debates/posts should be shunted onto another board. there is more to life than football and as big and varied and interesting the world of football is, I think we'd all get pretty bored if people were disuaded from posting about other topics. Open your mind Glyn, you never know you might learn something As for racism, Stutty put it quite perfectly, I havent seen anything that is overtly racist. What I have seen is intellectual points, no matter how flawed they may be, put in an amicable form only to be shouted down. As for people looking at the board and seeing BNP and tarring us with the same brush, well sorry Jp, i would like to think said people would take a look at the threads mentioned, they then might see that it is merely one or two isolated guests who have these beliefs, and that they are not shared by the rest of the board. I do think that by and large the mods do a good job But lets not be over zelous Shut your mouth Rob you never know YOU might learn something Just cos i dont feel the need to tell the world my political, cultural and social views every five minutes does not mean i have not got any!!
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Post by rob on Apr 6, 2005 15:35:43 GMT 1
Thats your choice, but you shouldnt grumble when oither people want to partake in some political/religious/intelligent discussions then
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Apr 6, 2005 15:46:44 GMT 1
oither What I will grumble all i like!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2005 15:48:32 GMT 1
My opinian on both the pointless debats and posts like this are that they are boaring This is a football message board for football people Who cares about the BNP and the like
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Post by john on Apr 6, 2005 15:59:55 GMT 1
Rob, Chris does stand near you
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Post by jamo on Apr 6, 2005 17:05:33 GMT 1
Indeed I am prone to the odd bit of name calling (just last week in fact with whitters) but then I can think of instances when many other members have partaken in some name calling (even yourself Jamo) However if their is an intellectual debate raging, i dont feel the need to jump in and call one of the proponents X Y or Z. Maybe I've grown up a bit, maybe I'm just another hypocrite??? I do not believe the non footballing debates/posts should be shunted onto another board. there is more to life than football and as big and varied and interesting the world of football is, I think we'd all get pretty bored if people were disuaded from posting about other topics. Open your mind Glyn, you never know you might learn something As for racism, Stutty put it quite perfectly, I havent seen anything that is overtly racist. What I have seen is intellectual points, no matter how flawed they may be, put in an amicable form only to be shouted down. As for people looking at the board and seeing BNP and tarring us with the same brush, well sorry Jp, i would like to think said people would take a look at the threads mentioned, they then might see that it is merely one or two isolated guests who have these beliefs, and that they are not shared by the rest of the board. I do think that by and large the mods do a good job But lets not be over zelous Take your point Rob. I'm pretty much in agreement with you on all this. And your right about name calling. We are nearly all guilty of it at times but i don't think anyone really takes it seriously. I also agree about the quality of our moderators. Anyone who ctiticises them should take a look around and think themselves fortunate we don't have Buckschat's.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Apr 6, 2005 17:48:45 GMT 1
This is a football message board for football people Who cares about the BNP and the like ! I think the board would be very boring if it cotained only footy posts. The strength of this board is that it includes discussions on various topics by a community of people whose common, but not exclusive, interest is STFC. Also, who wrote "for evil to prevail it is necessary only for good people to remain silent"?
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Post by welshshrew5 on Apr 6, 2005 17:59:26 GMT 1
It's pretty simple as far as I am concerned, the posts on politics should stay on this board, any racist posts should be deleted (as should many other sexist and offensive posts that appear from time to time) and we should carry on as we are. On the first page at the moment are:
1. A thread about the cost of cinema tickets 2. A thread trying to raise a cricket team 3. A thread about education standards 4. A thread about the BNP 5. A thread about the ex-Chester City manager 6. A thread about the current MP for Shrewsbury 7. A thread about a 'bible code' 8. A thread advertising tomorrow night's 5-a-side
etc. etc.
That, is why I continue to read B&A every day.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Apr 6, 2005 18:05:46 GMT 1
too right Gaz
This board has gone far far beyond being a footie messageboard
but the footie lies at its heart, it is what binds people together
this is always the place I will check for football news.
Jimmy Quinn's appointment being posted on here 12 hours before the press conference proved the point
as were the rumours about Howie being dropped circulating from Thursday last week
but the banter, the discussion, the debate, the arguing and the tales of nights out in shrewsbury certainly liven up proceedings
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