|
|
Post by wakemanender on Aug 19, 2019 10:39:43 GMT 1
I cant remember but Im sure the Bury supporters were quite happy when the big name players on high wages were being signed.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 12:22:48 GMT 1
2001/02 - went into administration. 2012 - transfer embargo because of financial difficulties. 2016 - number of winding up petitions by HMRC. 2019 - the current mess! Hardly a one off! That’s why to others they are known as the ‘bucket shakers’. I’m sorry, they are habitual offenders regarding their finances. It seems they were happy to accept anyone who waved their chequebook about. What gives them the right to occupy a league position, by spending money they don’t have, and denying a club from the conference who may be prudent with their finances? I've no idea how old you are horse01, or how long you have supported Salop. However we also went close to the edge.The glory years of the late 70's early 80's came at a price, we overspent to stay in what is now The Championship and when RW took over as Chairman from Ray Bailey the bank was just about to forclose on us, thereby closing us down ! It took RW selling both Anthrobus and Stevens behind manager Fred Davies' back that saved us from going under....did we stop supporting Salop?...did we heck. Final point, it's all very well being holier than thou because we are a well run club, the only person who has ensured this is RW, despite regular abuse from some on this board. We,the supporters, didn't chose RW which is exactly the same for Bury fans...they didn't chose Day or Dale they had no choice in the matter
You are right, we overspent and were on the brink. What we (Roland) did though was sell our best players, slash the budget and put in a long term plan to to turn the club around. However we had some very bleak years where staying in the football league was the height of our ambition. What we didn't do was beg for money, start overspending again and enjoy immediate success on the pitch.
My issue isn't with Bury as such, mine is with the football fans who moan about owners when things aren't going well on the pitch but conveniently forget/ignore them when there is some sort of success and then claim ignorance with the whole "why punish the fans", "what could we do". And before anyone says it, I know that our fanbase would be no different from Bury, Bolton, Charlton, Coventry etc. etc. |
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Aug 19, 2019 12:32:13 GMT 1
I've no idea how old you are horse01, or how long you have supported Salop. However we also went close to the edge.The glory years of the late 70's early 80's came at a price, we overspent to stay in what is now The Championship and when RW took over as Chairman from Ray Bailey the bank was just about to forclose on us, thereby closing us down ! It took RW selling both Anthrobus and Stevens behind manager Fred Davies' back that saved us from going under....did we stop supporting Salop?...did we heck. Final point, it's all very well being holier than thou because we are a well run club, the only person who has ensured this is RW, despite regular abuse from some on this board. We,the supporters, didn't chose RW which is exactly the same for Bury fans...they didn't chose Day or Dale they had no choice in the matter
You are right, we overspent and were on the brink. What we (Roland) did though was sell our best players, slash the budget and put in a long term plan to to turn the club around. However we had some very bleak years where staying in the football league was the height of our ambition. What we didn't do was beg for money, start overspending again and enjoy immediate success on the pitch.
My issue isn't with Bury as such, mine is with the football fans who moan about owners when things aren't going well on the pitch but conveniently forget/ignore them when there is some sort of success and then claim ignorance with the whole "why punish the fans", "what could we do". And before anyone says it, I know that our fanbase would be no different from Bury, Bolton, Charlton, Coventry etc. etc. But haven't many spent years bemoaning Roland's "lack of spending" and "lack of ambition". We just happen to have an old fashioned honest businessman at the helm. Not too far away, Tinpot went through it's own free spending big ideas guy and ended up broke. |
|
jacksdad
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 249
|
Post by jacksdad on Aug 19, 2019 13:09:46 GMT 1
As has been said previously, we the fans didn't choose RW as our club owner as Bury fans didn't choose Day or Dale. We should thank our lucky stars that RW is an astute local businessman and has taken a long term approach to building STFC to where it is today without us living beyond our means.
Who knows what could happen to the Town if RW ever decided to sell up and the kind of owner we could be lumbered with. I feel sorry for Bury fans because but for the grace of God, it could be any lower league club...or top division club for that matter, look what happened to dirty Leeds! The EFL are equally culpable in this disgraceful situation with both Bury and Bolton for not exercising the correct fit and proper checks in the first place and then taking decisive action once everything started to unravel. We're three games into the season and we don't whether we're playing in a 24, 23 or 22 club league FFS!
|
|
|
|
Post by davycrockett on Aug 19, 2019 13:59:26 GMT 1
I cant remember but Im sure the Bury supporters were quite happy when the big name players on high wages were being signed. They were as we would be |
|
|
|
Post by venceremos on Aug 19, 2019 14:56:26 GMT 1
Great thread - really interesting to read the diversity of views on such a thorny topic.
I hope r11bfc will respect the considered thoughts of the posters on here, including those who feel they can't sign the petition and have explained why. Just as he and his fellow Bury fans are angry and frustrated with Dale and Day, so a lot of non-Bury, lower league fans are angry and frustrated by having to compete with overspending clubs and then being asked to sympathise with and support (financially or otherwise) those same clubs when things go sour for them.
I have no sympathy for the club in the same way that I'd have no sympathy for any company evidently guilty of such bad financial practice (and perhaps worse).
Have to confess my feelings towards Bury fans are a bit mixed! I do recall some gloating about their big money, unaffordable signings and the 5 year Championship "project". On the other hand, I accept that was really nothing to do with them. Thing is, we support who we support. We don't have any control over the players either, we just have to take the rough and the smooth as they come. It's the same with owners and what they do with our clubs. We're fortunate to have had a good owner for so long (though he's not been exempt from a lot of criticism at times), Bury fans are unfortunate to have had a couple of wrong 'uns. Take the rough with the smooth.
That other Bury thread was started by me and I have a small connection with this topic because it was started in response to the fact that Dale had tried to "save" my RL club, Widnes, from liquidation but had pulled out because the council, who own the stadium, had refused to sell it to him. I guess that was the clear warning sign and we dodged a bullet.
Widnes had been guilty of overspending but not really on players (well, not since the 1990s anyway). We went into administration under Stephen Vaughan (dear God, I still shudder at the memory of his ownership) and then again this year under an administration that paid its management as though it were a big, successful club and left the playing side to decline horribly. I can't but sympathise with Bury fans on that score - you have to get such owners out.
In Widnes' case, we'd just been relegated, so we differ from Bury there. Our second administration took us to within hours of liquidation. We were deducted 12 points (18 in football terms) & our parachute payment and Academy funding stopped (which seems particularly unjust when the team is filled with Academy products). We stand 3 points above relegation with 2 games to play. We were fortunate to be rescued from liquidation by a fantastic fans' fund-raising effort and a group of affluent, but not rich, fans taking ownership. All debts are being paid but, because our finances are now so constrained, we will become a part time club next season and for the foreseeable future. Take the rough with the smooth.
I have yet to see such hardship in the plight of Bury's fans and they had the compensation that their club's overspending bought them onfield success, not the borderline (perhaps outright) criminality that occurred at Widnes. We've been punished harshly and are unlikely ever to return to Super League. That's hard to take for a club that were world champions 30 years ago.
All this leads me to conclude that I will sign the petition, because getting bad owners out is the essential starting point. At the same time, I don't think a 12 point deduction is anywhere near sufficient punishment and, like us, Bury fans have to be ready to take that on the chin and get on with it.
The EFL is culpable in this. Their fit and proper tests are evidently not stringent enough and need tightening urgently. Their job now is not to indulge in hand-wringing but to accept their responsibility, be fair to all the other clubs in the competition and, at the very least, ensure Bury are playing no higher than League 2 next season. The same should apply to Bolton. If they can resolve their ownership crises, let them assemble teams and play through the season but the points deductions should be high enough to ensure relegation, because they shouldn't really be in this competition at all this season.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 16:33:51 GMT 1
/\ /\ /\ absolute superb post from Venceremos.
From reading Beardymans Big Bury Board it's clear that Bury fans fully expect further points deductions for the first 4, probably 5, matches being postponed. I believe that the EFL don't make such decisions until new owners are in place, same with Bolton.Again I understand that the previous precedent penalty is 3 points per match,therefore another 15 points on top of the -12 that they have at the moment.
In fairness to their fans they don't care if they suffer succesive relegations and end up in the Conference, just as long as they have their football club.
Above anything should they survive they need to ensure that they end up with the correct owner,a Roland Wycherley stereotype who will run the club as a sustainable stand alone business and not take out loans
|
|
|
|
Post by Worthingshrew on Aug 19, 2019 17:31:10 GMT 1
I’d have had more sympathy if the petition had come round in April or May when they were just about to be promoted.
|
|
|
|
Post by claphamshrew on Aug 19, 2019 18:17:37 GMT 1
I’ve no idea why their promotion has not been rescinded as it was known well in advance of the start of the season that they would be getting a points deduction for spending beyond their means. They should have started on -12 in League Two, not League One, and Mansfield promoted in their place. I can’t think of another sport where you still get to keep your title despite not following the rules.
I’ve also failed to find any evidence that this offer to buy the club from a mysterious bidder is indeed a good offer. They're such a basket case of a club that I have severe reservations that the cycle won’t just happen again.
Unlike others, I’m sure we wouldn’t have continued to support such recklessness if we’d already been on the brink, as Bury were just a few years ago.
|
|
r11bfc
Shropshire County League
Posts: 20 
|
Post by r11bfc on Aug 24, 2019 22:19:28 GMT 1
Ah I’ve just realised who you are, I hope your dad is doing well, he must be pretty upset by the current plight as all Bury supporters are I guess. He wasn't my Dad but I did post updates on here, after his cardiac arrest at your place. As you'll remember, the medical team from Shrewsbury saved his life. He's still doing okay but gutted at what's going on at our place and is desperate for us to be saved. Me again! Firstly, just to say thanks to those who signed the petition (Dale is a psychopath!!!). Secondly, to say thanks to gainspark for his support on here and our own MB. And finally, to Nick J/A N Other(s) with regards to your reformed Away Supporters' team, playing their first match against a Bury team today, then going onto your game and the welcome they received. I've done this post on the above quotes, to share what the man, who's life was saved in Shrewsbury, has put on the petition: Me and my family love this club and even though I have had many heart problems, including a cardiac arrest when following the Shakers at Shrewsbury, we would be devastated if you allow this great club to die, when you could have sold to save it.Anyway, things are looking brighter for us, so hopefully, we'll see you all in October. Thanks again and all the best. |
|
