Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 20:03:32 GMT 1
Perhaps you could point me in the direction of where you got the attendance stats from? I've had a good look around the web and can't find anything....or maybe it's more to do with you wanting to validate your point ! Additionally Day didn't remortgage every month...or perhaps,having followed the whole sordid episode for nearly as long as NorthWestMan I've missed something somewher ? It can be tracked season on season through this handy resource. www.footballwebpages.co.uk/league-two/attendances/2014-2015I'd say my point is validated. As for remortgaging I too am in the process of remortgaging my house for the 16th time. I trust you'll sign my petition when I face ruin because of my illustrious history.... Nope, their attendances varied greatly dependant on whether they where being relegated or promoted ( they have had a fair few). I accept that they could have been more vociferous in their condemnation, like Blackpool fans and the Oystons, however they do have an active group called Forever Bury who actually bought enough shares to get a seat on the board. However Forever Bury, for some reason best known to themselves, gave custody of their shares to Stewart Day. Regarding your second point, the difference is you are an individual responsible for your own finances. Bury fans are nothing more than stakeholders, they have no say in what their club chairman does.. So for that reason I won't be signing your petition ! |
|
r11bfc
Shropshire County League
Posts: 20 
|
Post by r11bfc on Aug 18, 2019 20:04:15 GMT 1
2001/02 - went into administration. 2012 - transfer embargo because of financial difficulties. 2016 - number of winding up petitions by HMRC. 2019 - the current mess! Hardly a one off! That’s why to others they are known as the ‘bucket shakers’. I’m sorry, they are habitual offenders regarding their finances. It seems they were happy to accept anyone who waved their chequebook about. What gives them the right to occupy a league position, by spending money they don’t have, and denying a club from the conference who may be prudent with their finances? You'll be pleased I won't be hanging around here for much longer. It's been a rather surprising and unpleasant experience. But let's get some facts right first...I've been watching Bury for over 50 years. And yes, we've always struggled financially but I can only remember us being in serious financial trouble twice. Not ideal, but twice in over 50 years: The Admin era: But that was on the back of a wealthy individual who made an arse of things. Not sure anybody can be blamed there, other than the individual himself. The Day/Dale era: Which I and many others knew was bad news. Let's not forget though that Nev Neville (Gary and Phil's Dad) introduced Day and many thought the world of Nev Nev. Day was also a very clever conmen (other people have lost money through his non footballing enterprises...so they were conned too). I knew this day would come though and despite highlighting CCJs, WUPs, getting the local newspaper and David Conn involved, having a private meeting with Day (and Thomas) with my son, raising issues at Shareholders' Meetings, Fans' Forums, having a Private Forum to discuss financial issues, etc., etc. I'm not sure what more I and others could have done. Dale just happened overnight - Kieran Maguire (football's financial expert) said he'd put £3M in and Dale said he wanted a second chance in life after recovering from leukemia and we'd be run sustainably and he'd put back into the community. It was like a dream and I must admit I fell for him at first BUT it was all lies. My overall point being though, that in over 50 years of watching Bury, it's only the last few years where our finances have been disastrous. So hardly habitual offenders...you must have been listening to the Daleys for too long! ;o) Anyway, I didn't come on here for a mass debate (I've got better things to do, like try and save my football club)...just for a simple petition to be signed, to get an evil sociopath out of our club. Dale has hardly paid anybody, had staff in tears and then sacked them unfairly. I was just looking for support from fellow lower league football supporters. All the best for the season and I truly hope what has been/and is going on at Bury never happens to Shrewsbury. This is worth a read: www.metro.news/colin-murray-same-old-story-on-the-socio-path-to-disaster/1676874/amp/?__twitter_impression=trueIt can happen to most football clubs...trust me. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 20:08:47 GMT 1
I'll sign a petition backing the setting up of said Phoenix club all day long but, sorry, I'm sincerely hoping that Bury are expelled from the league next week. They are already part way down the road of setting up a phoenix club. If you go on Beardymans Big Bury Board you will see a link to a phoenix club discussion group/messageboard. They have wisely password protected it and to be accepted to join it you have to apply and then answer very Bury specific questions to prove that you are a legitimate Bury fan |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 20:12:40 GMT 1
It can be tracked season on season through this handy resource. www.footballwebpages.co.uk/league-two/attendances/2014-2015I'd say my point is validated. As for remortgaging I too am in the process of remortgaging my house for the 16th time. I trust you'll sign my petition when I face ruin because of my illustrious history.... Nope, their attendances varied greatly dependant on whether they where being relegated or promoted ( they have had a fair few). I accept that they could have been more vociferous in their condemnation, like Blackpool fans and the Oystons, however they do have an active group called Forever Bury who actually bought enough shares to get a seat on the board. However Forever Bury, for some reason best known to themselves, gave custody of their shares to Stewart Day. Regarding your second point, the difference is you are an individual responsible for your own finances. Bury fans are nothing more than stakeholders, they have no say in what their club chairman does.. So for that reason I won't be signing your petition ! Drivel. Their attendances remained 3700-4100 during the day reign. Absolutely zero sign of any fan petition of determination to get rid of a guy absolutely ruining the finances. As youve literally just put their own fans gave the green light to it by selling the shares. They are stakeholders yes. Passive complicit stakeholders who supported that team last season and before then to glory based on remortgaging of the ground and other financial extravagance. We were literally saying in 2016 exactly what would happen. They contined to attend. Now at the 11th hour they beg again. Na not for me. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 20:13:16 GMT 1
Does Bury have a supporters trust? Is Forever Bury the trust?
Why the f00k would a group of fans give up their shares?
Blimey.
|
|
r11bfc
Shropshire County League
Posts: 20
|
Post by r11bfc on Aug 18, 2019 20:18:40 GMT 1
|
|
|
|
Post by SouthStandShrew on Aug 18, 2019 20:21:25 GMT 1
No thanks.
Won't be signing.
Can recall Bury fans weren't too pleasant towards Blackpool and can recall wasn't towards ex tenants FCUM.
|
|
r11bfc
Shropshire County League
Posts: 20
|
Post by r11bfc on Aug 18, 2019 20:27:00 GMT 1
With the greatest of respect, what response did you expect from Salop fans? We're a similar size club, nearish geographically even, who've been involved in various promotion chases with Bury in recent years. The similarities between the clubs only make the gulf between our values and those of the people running your club even more stark and, yes, that has caused resentment over the years. It's a shame that the fans have to be collateral damage in all this but the reality is Bury FC cheated and achieved success at the expense of other clubs with more reasonable budgets. Some white knight coming along and paying 25p in the pound does not suddenly wash all that away, quite apart from the fact that I, like a lot of fans I suspect, have zero faith at this point that the proposed new owner won't merely continue the farce. The only sensible outcome is for the club to suffer some kind of punishment and for the fans to take control of the spirit of the club and set up a phoenix club with a genuine commitment to fair play and strong governance. I'll sign a petition backing the setting up of said Phoenix club all day long but, sorry, I'm sincerely hoping that Bury are expelled from the league next week. What did I expect? For a number of Shrews fans to simply sign the petition or not, as the case maybe. What didn't I expect? Some of the sheer vitriol. In fact, I'm literally staggered that so many have the time to spend so long in replying. All we're trying to do, is get rid of the most evil man I have ever come across; if you don't support that...that's your choice. |
|
|
|
Post by highfield on Aug 18, 2019 20:30:18 GMT 1
2001/02 - went into administration. 2012 - transfer embargo because of financial difficulties. 2016 - number of winding up petitions by HMRC. 2019 - the current mess! Hardly a one off! That’s why to others they are known as the ‘bucket shakers’. I’m sorry, they are habitual offenders regarding their finances. It seems they were happy to accept anyone who waved their chequebook about. What gives them the right to occupy a league position, by spending money they don’t have, and denying a club from the conference who may be prudent with their finances? You'll be pleased I won't be hanging around here for much longer. It's been a rather surprising and unpleasant experience. But let's get some facts right first...I've been watching Bury for over 50 years. And yes, we've always struggled financially but I can only remember us being in serious financial trouble twice. Not ideal, but twice in over 50 years: The Admin era: But that was on the back of a wealthy individual who made an arse of things. Not sure anybody can be blamed there, other than the individual himself. The Day/Dale era: Which I and many others knew was bad news. Let's not forget though that Nev Neville (Gary and Phil's Dad) introduced Day and many thought the world of Nev Nev. Day was also a very clever conmen (other people have lost money through his non footballing enterprises...so they were conned too). I knew this day would come though and despite highlighting CCJs, WUPs, getting the local newspaper and David Conn involved, having a private meeting with Day (and Thomas) with my son, raising issues at Shareholders' Meetings, Fans' Forums, having a Private Forum to discuss financial issues, etc., etc. I'm not sure what more I and others could have done. Dale just happened overnight - Kieran Maguire (football's financial expert) said he'd put £3M in and Dale said he wanted a second chance in life after recovering from leukemia and we'd be run sustainably and he'd put back into the community. It was like a dream and I must admit I fell for him at first BUT it was all lies. My overall point being though, that in over 50 years of watching Bury, it's only the last few years where our finances have been disastrous. So hardly habitual offenders...you must have been listening to the Daleys for too long! ;o) Anyway, I didn't come on here for a mass debate (I've got better things to do, like try and save my football club)...just for a simple petition to be signed, to get an evil sociopath out of our club. Dale has hardly paid anybody, had staff in tears and then sacked them unfairly. I was just looking for support from fellow lower league football supporters. All the best for the season and I truly hope what has been/and is going on at Bury never happens to Shrewsbury. This is worth a read: www.metro.news/colin-murray-same-old-story-on-the-socio-path-to-disaster/1676874/amp/?__twitter_impression=trueIt can happen to most football clubs...trust me. |
|
r11bfc
Shropshire County League
Posts: 20
|
Post by r11bfc on Aug 18, 2019 20:40:44 GMT 1
It can be tracked season on season through this handy resource. www.footballwebpages.co.uk/league-two/attendances/2014-2015I'd say my point is validated. As for remortgaging I too am in the process of remortgaging my house for the 16th time. I trust you'll sign my petition when I face ruin because of my illustrious history.... Nope, their attendances varied greatly dependant on whether they where being relegated or promoted ( they have had a fair few). I accept that they could have been more vociferous in their condemnation, like Blackpool fans and the Oystons, however they do have an active group called Forever Bury who actually bought enough shares to get a seat on the board. However Forever Bury, for some reason best known to themselves, gave custody of their shares to Stewart Day. Regarding your second point, the difference is you are an individual responsible for your own finances. Bury fans are nothing more than stakeholders, they have no say in what their club chairman does.. So for that reason I won't be signing your petition ! Thanks again, for your support gainspark (and on our MB). Just for the record though, Forever Bury giving shares to Day is an urban myth. Here is the truth: Forever Bury have never ever given any shares away and have only ever had approximately 11% of shares. The main shares were owned and managed by the SOS Trust set up by Nev Neville and supposed to separate from the directors. This was changed at the request of Iain Mills (former Director) who wanted some bang for his buck when he invested £200,000. Since then they have been controlled by the Directors of Bury FC. And given to Day and then given to Dale. Nothing to do with Forever Bury. In summary, a total cock up(!) by a previous Director, as the SOS shares were set up precisely to avoid a Day type figure coming along and controlling everything. |
|
|
|
Post by Stowmarket Shrew on Aug 18, 2019 20:42:46 GMT 1
With the greatest of respect, what response did you expect from Salop fans? We're a similar size club, nearish geographically even, who've been involved in various promotion chases with Bury in recent years. The similarities between the clubs only make the gulf between our values and those of the people running your club even more stark and, yes, that has caused resentment over the years. It's a shame that the fans have to be collateral damage in all this but the reality is Bury FC cheated and achieved success at the expense of other clubs with more reasonable budgets. Some white knight coming along and paying 25p in the pound does not suddenly wash all that away, quite apart from the fact that I, like a lot of fans I suspect, have zero faith at this point that the proposed new owner won't merely continue the farce. The only sensible outcome is for the club to suffer some kind of punishment and for the fans to take control of the spirit of the club and set up a phoenix club with a genuine commitment to fair play and strong governance. I'll sign a petition backing the setting up of said Phoenix club all day long but, sorry, I'm sincerely hoping that Bury are expelled from the league next week. What did I expect? For a number of Shrews fans to simply sign the petition or not, as the case maybe. What didn't I expect? Some of the sheer vitriol. In fact, I'm literally staggered that so many have the time to spend so long in replying. All we're trying to do, is get rid of the most evil man I have ever come across; if you don't support that...that's your choice. I genuinely wish you the best of luck, and it's regrettable if you feel any of us have been vitriolic. Most lower league fans readily empathise with each other as we know how it goes, but I can't help feeling that you've misjudged the level of support you might otherwise have expected. I'm far too old for abuse and banter, I'm a 40 something professional with no axe to grind with Bury, but the sooner this sorry mess concludes with Bury being kicked out the better. Far too many times we've seen far too many teams taking this p**s financially. Where will it end if action isn't taken?! The EFL generally have been spineless and mostly that inaction has just fuelled increasing financial mismanagement. What sticks in the throat it seems of Shrews fans in particular is that we are, rightly, lauded as a financially astute and well run club, generally bumbling along in a decidedly mediocre fashion. What fun we could have if we spent money we did 't have, but we don't, again rightly, but 'suffer' while financially clueless clubs succeed on money they never had, never will have, and have no hope of paying back. It's gone too far, it's time for clubs that conduct their business in this way to pay the ultimate penalty. All of us will suffer as a consequence, less matches for fans, less income. I genuinely hold no malice, and even more genuinely wish Bury and and inevitable Phoenix club the absolute best. We all love our clubs, we love the stadia and the unique matchday atmosphere and experience that no premier league or armchair fan will ever understand, and I hope you and your fellow fans find that quickly, and build from there, but this utter debacle needs to be concluded, as it inevitably will in the next week, with Bury being kicked out. |
|
|
|
Post by highfield on Aug 18, 2019 20:44:02 GMT 1
I hear you mate. The sad fact remains though that any business including football clubs cannot spend money they do not have. I am sure there a lots of small local businesses that are owed lots of money by Bury FC and will never receive a penny of it. Even if you are saved by a CVA they will only get a small percentage back.
You need to set up an AFC Bury and start again, with a fan owned business model for next season. Unfortunately unless a club does disappear this whole sorry cycle will keep repeating itself. Two seasons ago we were denied a place in the Championship by Wigan and Blackburn spending money that they did not have, so we are resentful.
Good luck for the future.
|
|
|
|
Post by Worthingshrew on Aug 18, 2019 20:57:09 GMT 1
I doubt you’ll get much support from Mansfield fans as they missed out on promotion last season from Bury buying promotion from money the6 didn’t have.
Undoubtedly Dale is ruining your club and I’m sorry for that though.
|
|
|
|
Post by Scarecrow on Aug 18, 2019 21:53:12 GMT 1
Every year I’ve watched Bury go through the same cycle. I had sympathy when it was the first two times and when the ground was sold off. Having gone through all of that and seemingly having the club stabilised, I didn’t hear any Bury fans raising concerns when they signed Vaughan and Beckford despite knowing the debt and state the club was in. There wasn’t anyone ringing alarm bells even though they know the position they were while the money was being splashed. This time I think it’s time the show ends and a properly run football club can rise up from the bottom controlled by the fans.
Bury cheated deserving teams like Mansfield last season who run a football club properly. Bury don’t seem to have any sympathy for those they’ve beaten on the borrowed path, nor do teams like Mansfield get mentioned in the stories in the media around Bury. It’s all sympathy for themselves rather than any recognition of their own responsibility.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 21:53:50 GMT 1
With the greatest of respect, what response did you expect from Salop fans? We're a similar size club, nearish geographically even, who've been involved in various promotion chases with Bury in recent years. The similarities between the clubs only make the gulf between our values and those of the people running your club even more stark and, yes, that has caused resentment over the years. It's a shame that the fans have to be collateral damage in all this but the reality is Bury FC cheated and achieved success at the expense of other clubs with more reasonable budgets. Some white knight coming along and paying 25p in the pound does not suddenly wash all that away, quite apart from the fact that I, like a lot of fans I suspect, have zero faith at this point that the proposed new owner won't merely continue the farce. The only sensible outcome is for the club to suffer some kind of punishment and for the fans to take control of the spirit of the club and set up a phoenix club with a genuine commitment to fair play and strong governance. I'll sign a petition backing the setting up of said Phoenix club all day long but, sorry, I'm sincerely hoping that Bury are expelled from the league next week. What did I expect? For a number of Shrews fans to simply sign the petition or not, as the case maybe. What didn't I expect? Some of the sheer vitriol. In fact, I'm literally staggered that so many have the time to spend so long in replying. All we're trying to do, is get rid of the most evil man I have ever come across; if you don't support that...that's your choice. Please don't be so naïve. What did you really expect, that everyone would gladly fall in line and sign your petition? You will have seen that there is a 20 page thread on this board dedicated to your club. Yes there is a degree of sympathy for you as supporters but at the same time there is a frustration that Bury FC have been allowed to get away with it for far too long, taking a high risk strategy hoping that it would pay off and when it didn't trying to walk away from its financial and moral responsibilities. Failing to pay players, staff having to rely on foodbanks, redundancies, creditors knowing they will never get the full monies owed to them. You said that you are surprised by some of the "sheer vitriol" that you have encountered on this board. Personally I don't see it, what I see is that people have openly and honestly questioned whether or not your club should be allowed to continue in the football league. That can't surprise you, surely? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 22:11:42 GMT 1
Throw a link up to the new club Bury are starting and i'll throw some money in.
But as for Bury, I'm truly sorry but there has to be a "buck stops here" now and someone has to be it. For the EFL to notice, for other fans to notice, what financial fair play really means. What fit and proper checks really mean.
I remember putting a few quid in a bucket not that long ago, and then the "we'll p**s the league" comments came back around. No, it's gotta hurt someone to make a difference now for teams like us. We came 3rd to two teams that spent millions and ran up debts we could only dream of (14.3 Million wasn't it) just to get promoted. Bury did the same to League Two. We lost a once in a lifetime chance and so have many others. That hurts every day.
As I say, put a link up to the fans run club and I'll support that. Bury need to die for the League to take notice, Not the Cities and Uniteds. Just the leagues around us that now have a Salford in there.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 22:21:40 GMT 1
I was expecting a backlash after my original post and when I came back to see 10 notifications I thought here we go, but I’m glad to see I’m not the only one with these opinions.
|
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Aug 18, 2019 22:23:20 GMT 1
It's the promotion isn't it? I think thats the difference this time around. If Bury were still a 4th division club I don't think we'd be seeing the reaction by a fair few that we are seeing now. They basically got promoted with money that they didn't have and in doing so, denying another (more financially stable) club promotion. I think this is why people are starting to think 'enough is enough'. It is taking the p**s and then some. I mean reading today that the local MP's are asking the likes of Manchester City and Manchester United to offer some help. In what way I'm not sure but it would be nice to send a little our way too if they are up to subsidising other clubs promotions...  I won't sign the petition as I don't think it means a thing when it comes to the likes of Day but I wish Bury all the best. I'm very much a traditionalist and wasn't too keen on seeing Notts County drop out of the league and I certainly don't want to see a traditional club like Bury go to the wall. But the reaction of some to this I think it perfectly understandable. |
|
|
|
Post by Scarecrow on Aug 18, 2019 22:53:15 GMT 1
Actually I think it raises an important question. As a Bury fan, given what your club did last season, do you feel a ‘right’ or even believe you deserve to be playing in League 1 this season?
Also do you feel at all guilty or believe that your club should apologise in any way to teams like Mansfield for effectively cheating last season to promotion?
|
|
|
|
Post by northwestman on Aug 18, 2019 23:29:02 GMT 1
And we are far from being unfamiliar with Bury's situation.
The 'o/t Bury - again' thread has been viewed over 46,000 times and has had 570 comments.
|
|
|
|
Post by martinshrew on Aug 18, 2019 23:44:22 GMT 1
Sick to death of hearing about Bury. **** them, and **** their fans who have continually lapped up overspending time and time again.
I hope the club goes to the wall in the coming weeks. Good riddance to the bucket shakers.
|
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Aug 18, 2019 23:45:34 GMT 1
I'm signing because the petition is to urge Steve Dale to accept the offer. They are not asking me for money, they are not asking me to sign a petition to appeal to the EFL not to chuck them out. They are trying to get their house in order and I fully support that. The staff and the fans deserve to be rid of Dale.
|
|
|
|
Post by andygroundo on Aug 19, 2019 7:06:26 GMT 1
Can anyone confirm Steve Dale has a child called Roch?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 7:21:41 GMT 1
Signed, good luck to Bury fans in getting rid of this man. |
|
masshrop
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 191
|
Post by masshrop on Aug 19, 2019 7:27:53 GMT 1
well im signing the petition if only for the fans & staff that hav'nt been paid for months , quite clearly not for the first time the owners overspent but the cooks the cleaners the ticket office staff etc are blameless in all of this nonsense also dont think it's at all fair to let bolton continue to play & exclude bury when bolton are even worse not paying for loanees etc , bolton been run and overspent for years but efl let them get away with it because so called big club , my own opionion is both teams should be punished equally ie if bury go bolton follow
|
|
|
|
Post by shrewblue on Aug 19, 2019 7:35:22 GMT 1
Signed and Good luck to the genuine and loyal Bury fans, whilst Dale and Day have destroyed this club the EFL have done their best to destroy the integrity of football by their weak management, inertia and lack of action in making sure clubs are well run financially.EFL need to take a long hard look at themselves Bury and Bolton are not the only ones they should be focused on.
|
|
|
|
Post by davycrockett on Aug 19, 2019 8:07:00 GMT 1
Signed .........
one of my my happiest time in football was after the play off 2nd leg to get back to my car to find a leaflet advertising Bury away travel to Wembley..... still laugh every time I think of it but still respect rival fans have every right to fight for ‘their club’
|
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Aug 19, 2019 9:08:29 GMT 1
well im signing the petition if only for the fans & staff that hav'nt been paid for months , quite clearly not for the first time the owners overspent but the cooks the cleaners the ticket office staff etc are blameless in all of this nonsense also dont think it's at all fair to let bolton continue to play & exclude bury when bolton are even worse not paying for loanees etc , bolton been run and overspent for years but efl let them get away with it because so called big club , my own opionion is both teams should be punished equally ie if bury go bolton follow Yes, I was thinking of the person who writes the match reports, the web site people, etc. If it was us, where would they get another job? |
|
|
|
Post by ssshrew on Aug 19, 2019 9:41:34 GMT 1
I wouldn’t think anywhere with the standard we have!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by Mortgagehound on Aug 19, 2019 10:31:54 GMT 1
Signed......but this your last chance
|
|
