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Post by OswestrySalopian on Jan 2, 2019 17:41:13 GMT 1
Yet again a massive over reaction on here by some. I don't know what's happened to the mentality of a football supporter, but are we just going to keep appointing new managers and immediately expecting them to play attractive football? We're not Manchester City, we're Shrewsbury and you can't expect that to be an overnight thing.
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Post by shrewder on Jan 2, 2019 17:50:32 GMT 1
Yet again a massive over reaction on here by some. I don't know what's happened to the mentality of a football supporter, but are we just going to keep appointing new managers and immediately expecting them to play attractive football? We're not Manchester City, we're Shrewsbury and you can't expect that to be an overnight thing. Last season did us no favours and raised expectations beyond reality. In general we are a team of also rans with an occasional successful interlude.
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Post by bobbytheblock19er on Jan 2, 2019 17:55:54 GMT 1
Samharvey askey has gone - it’s done , finished , the end . He isn’t coming back , ever . The fact he’s gone doesn’t bother me. Well it didn’t sit well with me, but what’s done is done. What I found frustrating was the fans judgement on the man, when he had been given hardly anytime. Yet with Ricketts, fans seem quite happy to show there support of him, despite results being identical. Like i’ve said previously, I’d like all this to work out. But i just can’t see things improving under Ricketts. so what do you suggest ?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2019 19:10:48 GMT 1
I can't speak for Sam Harvey, but fans who actively shouted at Askey 'you don't know what you're doing' for subbing Whalley after a small number of games are the same people who also appear to be quite happy to support Ricketts substitution of a relatively in-form and handful AAH and push our top scorer out wide early on in a game..
For the record I'm not saying either decision was right/wrong, it's just the general inconsistency and hypocrisy of it all.
As for me, well we are as we have been all season. A bang average team that is nothing short of atrocious away from home. We lost our spine from last season and have only really replaced Ogogo with similar or superior quality. The likes of Gillead, Angol obviously have some level of talent, but neither Askey nor Ricketts so far seems able to turn that into consistency. That leads us to play very one dimensional with an ever increasing reliance on set pieces from Docherty. The Whalley injury hasnt helped either.
I think we will stay up but as has been the case with every season at this level apart from last in our recent history its going to be a struggle up to 54 points.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2019 19:38:29 GMT 1
The context for JA's first 6 games has been pointed out. The context for SR's first 6 games is a settled team and formation that was started by JA himself and continued by ER and DC. The reality is you can't compare them.
What we can compare is attitude, application and the players appearing to be 'on message'.
Home form was improving under JA and included a storming win over Barnsley and this has been carried on. The away form is utter gash and Burton and Stanley away was just as bad as Fleetwood, or Oxford away.
So, back to attitude, application and the message. For me it's just as inconsistent as when JA was here and it's interesting that nobody has picked up on AAH's reaction to be subbed on Tuesday. Not a happy bunny. Also, I'm surprised that nobody has picked up on the players moaning at each other on Tuesday (Norburn being moaner in chief). In my opinion, we're not a happy camp at the moment.
I have a feeling it won't be long before SR is called a c*** by some and told to F off back to Wrexham. Despite talking a good game and clapping etc.
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Post by shrewsace on Jan 2, 2019 20:05:34 GMT 1
Yet again a massive over reaction on here by some. I don't know what's happened to the mentality of a football supporter, but are we just going to keep appointing new managers and immediately expecting them to play attractive football? We're not Manchester City, we're Shrewsbury and you can't expect that to be an overnight thing. Last season did us no favours and raised expectations beyond reality. In general we are a team of also rans with an occasional successful interlude. Christ, next time someone accuses the club of having no ambition, maybe they should take a look at the fans first!
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Post by callum on Jan 2, 2019 20:16:03 GMT 1
No matter how badly they are performing those within the game will be able to look beyond that and see whatever potential is available within a player. And no matter how badly a player is playing, they will at times show enough as to what they are about. So with that said, it'll be interesting to see if anyone comes a calling during this transfer window. Grant has been the standout, by a country mile and his performances can't have gone unnoticed but whether anyone would be willing to pay a fee for him at his age, dunno. Docherty is another but Rangers appear happy with his development (as is he hopefully knowing he'll get his chance at a higher level soon enough) so hopefully he is set to stay. Sure someone would take a punt on Fey. Sure Whalley would have been on peoples radar too before the injury. But other than that... anyhow, be interesting to see if anyone does inquire about any of our lads. I do wonder whether that view you mention is as commonly held as some might think... No one will need to pay a fee for Grant, hes out of contract in the summer. There is a year option on the contract, but who knows wht has to happen for that to be implemented, and if Grant HAS to sign it if offers are on the table. Surely we didn't pay a fee for him and then only give a one year contract knowing he could start to look elsewhere after only six months.
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Post by shrewder on Jan 2, 2019 20:20:03 GMT 1
Last season did us no favours and raised expectations beyond reality. In general we are a team of also rans with an occasional successful interlude. Christ, next time someone accuses the club of having no ambition, maybe they should take a look at the fans first! Just a long lifetime of watching the team makes you a realist. Of course I would like to see them do well but too high expectations usually leads to disappointment and frustration. Which is exactly what some fans are experiencing this season.
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Post by shrewsace on Jan 2, 2019 20:28:14 GMT 1
Christ, next time someone accuses the club of having no ambition, maybe they should take a look at the fans first! Just a long lifetime of watching the team makes you a realist. Of course I would like to see them do well but too high expectations usually leads to disappointment and frustration. Which is exactly what some fans are experiencing this season. We were a non-league team for the first 64 years of our existence. You don't accept your lot, you strive to progress and improve. Last season did us a massive favour in that it knocked on the head all those perrenial myths about us being too far from Manchester/London or wherever to compete in League One. It proved with the right manager and players we can challenge at the right end of this division.
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Post by northwestman on Jan 2, 2019 20:32:07 GMT 1
And it is too high an expectation to be expecting a top ten finish.
On the basis of yesterday's performance and our dire away form, I'd say that we should be far more concerned as to whether we can stay out of the bottom 4, where only AFC Wimbledon look reasonably likely to be relegated.
Hopefully, a few additions can be made to the squad to address some of the weaknesses, but the reality is we need about a point a game from our remaining fixtures to stay up. Possibly more.
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Post by SamHarvey on Jan 2, 2019 20:52:59 GMT 1
I can't speak for Sam Harvey, but fans who actively shouted at Askey 'you don't know what you're doing' for subbing Whalley after a small number of games are the same people who also appear to be quite happy to support Ricketts substitution of a relatively in-form and handful AAH and push our top scorer out wide early on in a game.. For the record I'm not saying either decision was right/wrong, it's just the general inconsistency and hypocrisy of it all. As for me, well we are as we have been all season. A bang average team that is nothing short of atrocious away from home. We lost our spine from last season and have only really replaced Ogogo with similar or superior quality. The likes of Gillead, Angol obviously have some level of talent, but neither Askey nor Ricketts so far seems able to turn that into consistency. That leads us to play very one dimensional with an ever increasing reliance on set pieces from Docherty. The Whalley injury hasnt helped either. I think we will stay up but as has been the case with every season at this level apart from last in our recent history its going to be a struggle up to 54 points. This is exactly what I’m getting at. Thank you.
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Post by SamHarvey on Jan 2, 2019 20:56:09 GMT 1
The fact he’s gone doesn’t bother me. Well it didn’t sit well with me, but what’s done is done. What I found frustrating was the fans judgement on the man, when he had been given hardly anytime. Yet with Ricketts, fans seem quite happy to show there support of him, despite results being identical. Like i’ve said previously, I’d like all this to work out. But i just can’t see things improving under Ricketts. so what do you suggest ? I’m not saying we should be getting rid of Ricketts. Get behind him, the team and the club. Don’t expect us to be ripping up any trees, because we won’t. When we win a game be happy, if we lose a game, realise where we are as a club at the moment. I just wish the same had been done at the start of the season.
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Post by tvor on Jan 2, 2019 21:13:19 GMT 1
Ricketts came into a team that had recovered slightly Ricketts came into a team that had won five of their last six games.
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Post by shrewder on Jan 2, 2019 21:37:50 GMT 1
Just a long lifetime of watching the team makes you a realist. Of course I would like to see them do well but too high expectations usually leads to disappointment and frustration. Which is exactly what some fans are experiencing this season. We were a non-league team for the first 64 years of our existence. You don't accept your lot, you strive to progress and improve. Last season did us a massive favour in that it knocked on the head all those perrenial myths about us being too far from Manchester/London or wherever to compete in League One. It proved with the right manager and players we can challenge at the right end of this division. Its only of interest what happens in your own life time. I was there in the heady days of the old division 2 but don't expect I will see those days again.
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Post by PeterBroadbent on Jan 2, 2019 21:59:06 GMT 1
The problem now is STILL the Askey problem ... duh!
Useless, journeymen, below league one standard signings ...
ASKEY tenure has messed us for this and probably next season too with bad judgement on players.
Who on earth in league one would buy, Gillead, Holloway, Loft, Kennedy, Arnold, Haynes, Waterfall?
No-one apart from Askey
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Post by jimmyrobbo on Jan 2, 2019 22:09:24 GMT 1
The problem now is STILL the Askey problem ... duh! Useless, journeymen, below league one standard signings ... ASKEY tenure has messed us for this and probably next season too with bad judgement on players. Who on earth in league one would buy, Gillead, Holloway, Loft, Kennedy, Arnold, Haynes, Waterfall? No-one apart from Askey You clearly know nothing about the market whatsoever. Absolutely nothing. A lot like the rest of your drivel.
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Post by GlosShrew on Jan 2, 2019 22:50:39 GMT 1
For context on the Askey points Ricketts first 6 games - 6 Points (1 Win, 3 Draws, 2 losses - Goal Difference -3) Askeys first 6 games - 3 points (3 loss, 3 draws - Goal Difference -1) Technically hes twice as good as Askey Sorry Glyn, but you can make numbers look like you want. Askey’s first six league games were against, Bradford (H) 1-0 loss, but remember the week of the game it was all kicking off with Nolan and Toto, so no doubt had an impact. Charlton (A) lost 2-1, look where there sitting now. Blackpool (H) drew 0-0, maybe could have got a result here. Doncaster (A) drew 0-0, again look where Doncaster are this season. Decent away point. Luton town (A) lost 3-2. Played well, unlucky to lose, and need i say more about where they are this season. Bristol Rovers (H) drew 1-1, thought we played good football in this game and were unlucky not to come away with three points. Now for Ricketts first six, Burton Albion (A) Terrible performance against a team at the time below us in the table. 2-1 loss. Peterbrough (H) 2-2, should have won this one but for a dodgy official decision at the end. Unlucky. Coventry (H) 1-0, against a team that hadn’t won since the end of October. Accrington (A) 2-1. Does anything need to be said. Sunderland (A) 1-1. Good point, but the football was damn awful. Still, good point. Fleetwood (H) 0-0, against a team who had lost there last six away games. Add to that the awful football once again. So looking at that, I’ll say it again, askey was treated harshly. To add a bit more context - these are the results for Paul Hurst's first six games in charge:-
29/10/2016 SOUTHEND UNITED A D 1 1 06/11/2016 BARNET H W 3 0 12/11/2016 OXFORD UNITED H W 2 0 19/11/2016 SHEFFIELD UNITED A L 1 2 22/11/2016 FLEETWOOD TOWN A L 0 3 26/11/2016 PORT VALE H D 0 0
So 2 wins 2 draws 2 defeats (8 points) and a goal difference of +1
The next game was a 0-0 draw at home to Fleetwood in the cup!!
Not sure why I posted this to be honest as this comparing of performance after the first six games is I consider a little silly - any judgement on Rickets should be made after the January transfer window has closed and he has had a chance to bring his own players in to boost the squad.
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Post by Valerioch on Jan 2, 2019 22:51:22 GMT 1
Paul Hurst got a lot more out of Mellon’s drivel, saved us from 8 points adrift.
And Mellon’s drivel journeyman were far worse than this.
Just saying...
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Post by markievw on Jan 2, 2019 22:59:17 GMT 1
FFS Give Ricketts a chance. He needs to get rid of a few players in January. Can then get in a few of his own players.
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Post by venceremos on Jan 2, 2019 23:36:42 GMT 1
And Fleetwood's last 10 away games including yesterday - W1 D2 L7. The 3 home draws against Bristol, Gillingham and Fleetwood were 6 points lost that shouldn't have been. You can chuck in Blackpool and Posh to that too Our home form is decent. It could’ve been great Of course, if we had a better team. We’re not in a false position.
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Post by northwestman on Jan 2, 2019 23:40:16 GMT 1
And please SR. Do not persist with the long ball tactics over used in the dire Fleetwood game.
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Post by venceremos on Jan 2, 2019 23:48:00 GMT 1
Think some people are expecting too much from the transfer window. January isn’t the time to build, it’s for patching up, so Ricketts won’t have “his” squad before August at the earliest.
But it’s a reasonable squad he’s inherited. Just seems that Coyne & Ramsay were getting more from it, but it is very early days yet. I remember last New Year’s Day was a ropey game too - two tired teams and we just about had enough to win, whereas yesterday we didn’t. He needs time of course but he also needs to be winning more than one in six. Askey didn’t get long.
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Post by greeny on Jan 2, 2019 23:59:19 GMT 1
I can't speak for Sam Harvey, but fans who actively shouted at Askey 'you don't know what you're doing' for subbing Whalley after a small number of games are the same people who also appear to be quite happy to support Ricketts substitution of a relatively in-form and handful AAH and push our top scorer out wide early on in a game.. For the record I'm not saying either decision was right/wrong, it's just the general inconsistency and hypocrisy of it all. As for me, well we are as we have been all season. A bang average team that is nothing short of atrocious away from home. We lost our spine from last season and have only really replaced Ogogo with similar or superior quality. The likes of Gillead, Angol obviously have some level of talent, but neither Askey nor Ricketts so far seems able to turn that into consistency. That leads us to play very one dimensional with an ever increasing reliance on set pieces from Docherty. The Whalley injury hasnt helped either. I think we will stay up but as has been the case with every season at this level apart from last in our recent history its going to be a struggle up to 54 points. This is exactly what I’m getting at. Thank you. I don’t think that is what you were getting at? You’ve essentially said that after 6 games you don’t think Ricketts is the right guy after complaining that people didn’t give Askey enough time...? It didn’t work at the weekend but he made a change at half time and that change made us look better. Far too often Askey kept the same shape in games and left subs too late. Granted, Askey had to rebuild a team but he signed the players with a vision and they failed to fit into his system so he changed it to 3 at the back, then changed it back again then changed to a diamond. Ricketts is working with what he’s got and doing alright- I like you’ve been bold enough to suggest you don’t think he’s going to do it for us but you can’t then turn around and say ‘get behind him and the team’.
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Post by bobbytheblock19er on Jan 3, 2019 1:06:33 GMT 1
I’m expecting us to be looking a lot better in a month or 2 when SR has got out the players he doesn’t fancy , and got a couple more in . Remember he probably has a lot better contacts than askey . I genuinely think askey May have struggled to attract players . Rickets hasn’t long finished playing , with some top pros aswell . Let’s see who he brings in .
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Post by shrewswolf on Jan 3, 2019 1:29:59 GMT 1
The problem now is STILL the Askey problem ... duh! Useless, journeymen, below league one standard signings ... ASKEY tenure has messed us for this and probably next season too with bad judgement on players. Who on earth in league one would buy, Gillead, Holloway, Loft, Kennedy, Arnold, Haynes, Waterfall? No-one apart from Askey Am I the only one that thinks Gilliead is quite good? People make out that he’s part of the deadwood but to me he’s had some excellent games though reluctant or a little indecisive in the final third. Sure he’s also been quiet in some but rarely if ever awful. The rest you list, besides Waterfall, are useless mind. I think Askey signed a decent enough core but his ‘squad’ is as bad as any. We kind of pick from 14 or 15 really despite having many more than that. A real mixed window. Still think the first 6 games of Askey’s reign was full of some excellent football despite the ‘facts’ presented in this thread. A very unlucky half dozen - 10 games before it went downhill & clearly his ‘methods’ or lack of led to enough player discontent for Caldwell & Roland to call it a day.
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Post by RBA on Jan 3, 2019 9:45:25 GMT 1
I think Gillead is pretty good too and think Waterfall has been much much better than some suggest
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Post by northwestman on Jan 3, 2019 10:35:51 GMT 1
I wouldn't include Holloway in that list either. He's not too bad when fit.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jan 3, 2019 11:19:47 GMT 1
Really don't think supporters and unreasonable expectations from the fan base is a cause for concern. Askey just wasn't up to the task, simple as. And sections of the fan base clocked it early on, as did some players from what we can now gather and it didn't take long for the club to come to the same conclusion. If it's not the right fit then the club were right to take action. So I don't particularly think the success under Hurst last season was a huge influence on how certain sections of the support viewed Askey. It was 5 wins from 21 and for the most part, dire listless football with questions over his management style.
What might well be a concern though looking to the success we enjoyed under Hurst is the club thinking they can keep pulling something out of the hat when it comes to relatively young and relatively inexperienced (at this level) managers who can bring about some success. Those expectations might well have risen within the club and that might not serve us well going forward.
No idea who else was available this time around, who actually looked to apply for the job, but I do hope we are looking beyond just those who fit a certain criteria because it just so happened to come right with Hurst. Askey was a poor appointment and a huge gamble, despite what he did wit Macc last season I can't be the only one who had reservations once you looked into his background. I'd say Ricketts is a bigger gamble still. Just hope that we don't see the club constantly looking for the next Hurst when others, perhaps more longer in the tooth, might be an option. Every appointment is a gamble of course but some more than others.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2019 12:31:52 GMT 1
No need to panic . We are looking at round about 55 points this season imo . Should see us comfortably safe . I think we are about 2 points from Burton and I don’t think they are panicking . I do agree we need an out and out striker but how long have we been saying that . Will RW find the money to bring in such a player? That is the big question . No , for me we could / should be doing better and I look at the Blackpool / Peterborough games when we should have taken another 4 points but then again Sunderland was a bonus . There are other games when we failed to secure points but that’s football . Let’s not panic , if we finish where we are now that will do me . We had a terrible pre season with Hurst and players going , brought in a new Manager who soon went and I do think he had a job on to be honest and now have another Manager who is doing his best for us . What do people expect , so many changes in less than half the season . A bit of stability and patience wouldn’t go amiss .
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Post by tdk on Jan 3, 2019 12:47:04 GMT 1
So in Askey's 'awful signings' list we have:- Holloway Gillead Waterfall Grant Docherty Emmanuel Norburn Laurent Ferji All Ok or better
I would add Haynes to that list
Loft Kennedy Arnold possible flops
Not bad when consider also over £2 million net transfer fee income (and all made in a rushed 6 or so weeks) Whatever his failings as a manager I don't think recruitment was the problem
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