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Post by tvor on Jan 1, 2019 22:58:16 GMT 1
I disagree that he inherited an imbalanced squad. The squad has options, mostly decent options, in all positions. We have a ridiculous amount of central midfielders which is why we have been forced into playing a diamond Up front we have 4 strikers but take our Fey then do the other 3 inspire you? We have two left backs, yet most people say we need a new left back We have two goalkeepers, neither inspire confidence We have no pace in the central of defence On the wingers side, we are heavily reliant on Whalley, Gilliead has been poor generally and Eisa has not forced his way into the first team, although that is probably down to us being forced into the 4 central midfielders. That's a different discussion. That's about the qualities, or perceived qualities, of the players and not about imbalance. Having a lot of central midfielders does not force the diamond formation to be used. There is no onus on them all to be selected, a standard 4-4-2 could just as easily be used with two of Whalley, Gillead and Eisa, or even young Barnett in the wide positions. 3-5-2 is also an option.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2019 8:16:27 GMT 1
That's a different discussion. That's about the qualities, or perceived qualities, of the players and not about imbalance. Having a lot of central midfielders does not force the diamond formation to be used. There is no onus on them all to be selected, a standard 4-4-2 could just as easily be used with two of Whalley, Gillead and Eisa, or even young Barnett in the wide positions. 3-5-2 is also an option. Yes imbalance v quality are two different arguments. I brought up quality after your comment of "options, mostly decent throughout the squad". Whilst there are options I would argue there's not a huge amount of quality there, except for in the central of midfield. And yes we don't have to play all the midfielders so maybe forced is the wrong word but it's not surprising we try and accommodate our better players, however not in their natural position because there's too many players there. Again for me it comes back to imbalance.
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Post by RBA on Jan 2, 2019 9:18:54 GMT 1
Askey shouldn’t have been sacked in my opinion. If we’re totally honest, since Rickets has been appointed, we’ve gone backwards. Performances are poor, individuals are playing poor, and we’re not getting results. Were the performances that bad under askey? I feel as a whole we played decent football, we just weren’t getting the results. They started to come, but due to some, we decided to get rid and replace him with a manager with next to no managerial experience. Feel free to bring this back up if we somehow manage to sort ourselves out under Rickets, but I for one highly doubt we will. No, the deed is done now and we will be ok with SR and need to stick behind him. I would have given JA longer, but would have been speaking to him about training and getting in a more up to date coach and coaching methods or promoting from within as it turned out. Maybe he was spoken to about it and put his head in the sand? Think this is right- Some of the players Askey brought in are excellent some are not up to this level but Askey seemed unable to inspire players or supporters appeared to lack enthusiasm and made a strange choice of coach-Think SR will be fine in the longer term but as always time will tell As a minor aside I do think Haynes has improved under the new regime
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Jan 2, 2019 10:17:43 GMT 1
For context on the Askey points
Ricketts first 6 games - 6 Points (1 Win, 3 Draws, 2 losses - Goal Difference -3)
Askeys first 6 games - 3 points (3 loss, 3 draws - Goal Difference -1)
Technically hes twice as good as Askey
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Post by razzledazzle on Jan 2, 2019 11:39:18 GMT 1
For context on the Askey points Ricketts first 6 games - 6 Points (1 Win, 3 Draws, 2 losses - Goal Difference -3) Askeys first 6 games - 3 points (3 loss, 3 draws - Goal Difference -1) Technically hes twice as good as Askey ?? Shouldn't that be Ricketts first 6 games - 6 Points (1 Win, 3 Draws, 2 losses - Goal Difference -1) Askey's first 6 games - 3 points (3 loss, 3 draws - Goal Difference -3) A GD of -1 from 3 losses 3 draws is arithmetically impossible.
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Jan 2, 2019 11:42:02 GMT 1
Yeah sorry got the GDs the wrong way around....
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Post by venceremos on Jan 2, 2019 11:59:05 GMT 1
For context on the Askey points Ricketts first 6 games - 6 Points (1 Win, 3 Draws, 2 losses - Goal Difference -3) Askeys first 6 games - 3 points (3 loss, 3 draws - Goal Difference -1) Technically hes twice as good as Askey Technically? Hmm, would have liked to have seen a bit more evidence of his technical side yesterday! Six games is too early to judge (as it was for Askey). Askey's next six games produced 9 points - 2 wins, 3 draws, 1 defeat and a +2 goal difference. Let's see if Ricketts can beat that before we think about saying he's any better, never mind twice as good! Worth noting those first six games for Askey included visits to Charlton, Luton and Doncaster - all in play off positions and part of the top 7 that's left the rest a long way behind - whereas Ricketts' teams got a good point at Sunderland but flopped at Burton and Accrington. Hopefully we'll get back on track but the style of play and results have left something to be desired so far.
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Jan 2, 2019 12:10:13 GMT 1
For context on the Askey points Ricketts first 6 games - 6 Points (1 Win, 3 Draws, 2 losses - Goal Difference -3) Askeys first 6 games - 3 points (3 loss, 3 draws - Goal Difference -1) Technically hes twice as good as Askey Technically? Hmm, would have liked to have seen a bit more evidence of his technical side yesterday! Six games is too early to judge (as it was for Askey). Askey's next six games produced 9 points - 2 wins, 3 draws, 1 defeat and a +2 goal difference. Let's see if Ricketts can beat that before we think about saying he's any better, never mind twice as good! Worth noting those first six games for Askey included visits to Charlton, Luton and Doncaster - all in play off positions and part of the top 7 that's left the rest a long way behind - whereas Ricketts' teams got a good point at Sunderland but flopped at Burton and Accrington. Hopefully we'll get back on track but the style of play and results have left something to be desired so far. I dont disagree, but was just pointing out that his start has been better than Askeys, though Askeys was so bad its not funny.... Like Askey he could do with an Away win early doors. That this team have won ONE game away all season is so so poor! And i still consider that to be a bit of a fluke!
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Post by northwestman on Jan 2, 2019 13:02:06 GMT 1
This is the table that should concern us after the 6 League games played under Ricketts. Just look at the improvement made by Bradford and Bristol Rovers! www.footballwebpages.co.uk/league-one/form-guidePlymouth, Gillingham, Rochdale and even Wimbledon have also done better than us in the last 6 games. The 7 point gap between us and the bottom 4 is now down to only 3 points.
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Post by northwestman on Jan 2, 2019 13:06:28 GMT 1
And Fleetwood's last 10 away games including yesterday - W1 D2 L7.
The 3 home draws against Bristol, Gillingham and Fleetwood were 6 points lost that shouldn't have been.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jan 2, 2019 13:11:47 GMT 1
And Fleetwood's last 10 away games including yesterday - W1 D2 L7. The 3 home draws against Bristol, Gillingham and Fleetwood were 6 points lost that shouldn't have been. i agree but not sure what the answer is but playing long balls and hoping waterfall will get his head on a corner whilst playing like a peters team is not the answer.
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Post by venceremos on Jan 2, 2019 13:17:19 GMT 1
And Fleetwood's last 10 away games including yesterday - W1 D2 L7. The 3 home draws against Bristol, Gillingham and Fleetwood were 6 points lost that shouldn't have been. i agree but not sure what the answer is but playing long balls and hoping waterfall will get his head on a corner whilst playing like a peters team is not the answer. I'd have been happy if we'd just aimed corners at Waterfall but Docherty's delivery yesterday was way off - second half they were curving away from the penalty spot at waist height! <iframe width="18.72" height="5.86000000000001" id="MoatPxIOPT1_60829658" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 15px; top: -5px; width: 18.72px; height: 5.86px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe> <iframe width="18.72" height="5.86000000000001" id="MoatPxIOPT1_52921890" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 881px; top: -5px; width: 18.72px; height: 5.86px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe> <iframe width="18.72" height="5.86000000000001" id="MoatPxIOPT1_29315406" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 231px; width: 18.72px; height: 5.86px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe> <iframe width="18.72" height="5.86000000000001" id="MoatPxIOPT1_86363951" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 881px; top: 231px; width: 18.72px; height: 5.86px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe>
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Post by northwestman on Jan 2, 2019 13:19:22 GMT 1
Fleetwood's next 4 League games are Oxford H, Rochdale A Wimbledon A and Sc***horpe H.
So we are all Fleetwood fans for the next month!
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Post by venceremos on Jan 2, 2019 13:20:03 GMT 1
This is the table that should concern us after the 6 League games played under Ricketts. Just look at the improvement made by Bradford and Bristol Rovers! www.footballwebpages.co.uk/league-one/form-guidePlymouth, Gillingham, Rochdale and even Wimbledon have also done better than us in the last 6 games. The 7 point gap between us and the bottom 4 is now down to only 3 points. Form is temporary - as we've demonstrated often enough! It's taken a lot for those teams to close the gap - sustaining that and more is a different matter. At the moment, I'm only concerned with us getting another 6-7 wins.
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Post by northwestman on Jan 2, 2019 13:32:41 GMT 1
The unfortunate thing is that with 5 of those 6 sides I've mentioned, we have to play them away from home.
So that makes things a little more difficult unless our away record improves. If not, then 7 wins from 10 home games is asking a lot, especially with 4 of the top 6 sides visiting us.
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Post by Pilch on Jan 2, 2019 13:50:51 GMT 1
if we played like that under asked the score would have been 0-1
because his first sub would have been after 88 minutes just after conceding an 87th minute goal
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jan 2, 2019 14:16:30 GMT 1
A commonly held view when John Askey was in charge was that this is a very good group of players who were badly under performing, No matter how badly they are performing those within the game will be able to look beyond that and see whatever potential is available within a player. And no matter how badly a player is playing, they will at times show enough as to what they are about. So with that said, it'll be interesting to see if anyone comes a calling during this transfer window. Grant has been the standout, by a country mile and his performances can't have gone unnoticed but whether anyone would be willing to pay a fee for him at his age, dunno. Docherty is another but Rangers appear happy with his development (as is he hopefully knowing he'll get his chance at a higher level soon enough) so hopefully he is set to stay. Sure someone would take a punt on Fey. Sure Whalley would have been on peoples radar too before the injury. But other than that... anyhow, be interesting to see if anyone does inquire about any of our lads. I do wonder whether that view you mention is as commonly held as some might think...
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Post by SamHarvey on Jan 2, 2019 14:17:06 GMT 1
For context on the Askey points Ricketts first 6 games - 6 Points (1 Win, 3 Draws, 2 losses - Goal Difference -3) Askeys first 6 games - 3 points (3 loss, 3 draws - Goal Difference -1) Technically hes twice as good as Askey Sorry Glyn, but you can make numbers look like you want. Askey’s first six league games were against, Bradford (H) 1-0 loss, but remember the week of the game it was all kicking off with Nolan and Toto, so no doubt had an impact. Charlton (A) lost 2-1, look where there sitting now. Blackpool (H) drew 0-0, maybe could have got a result here. Doncaster (A) drew 0-0, again look where Doncaster are this season. Decent away point. Luton town (A) lost 3-2. Played well, unlucky to lose, and need i say more about where they are this season. Bristol Rovers (H) drew 1-1, thought we played good football in this game and were unlucky not to come away with three points. Now for Ricketts first six, Burton Albion (A) Terrible performance against a team at the time below us in the table. 2-1 loss. Peterbrough (H) 2-2, should have won this one but for a dodgy official decision at the end. Unlucky. Coventry (H) 1-0, against a team that hadn’t won since the end of October. Accrington (A) 2-1. Does anything need to be said. Sunderland (A) 1-1. Good point, but the football was damn awful. Still, good point. Fleetwood (H) 0-0, against a team who had lost there last six away games. Add to that the awful football once again. So looking at that, I’ll say it again, askey was treated harshly.
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Post by venceremos on Jan 2, 2019 14:18:33 GMT 1
The unfortunate thing is that with 5 of those 6 sides I've mentioned, we have to play them away from home. So that makes things a little more difficult unless our away record improves. If not, then 7 wins from 10 home games is asking a lot, especially with 4 of the top 6 sides visiting us. Well, 6-7 wins makes it comfortable enough for us to stay up because the reality is we're as likely to draw as win (7 wins, 9 draws so far). I'd expect 5 wins would get us to 50, allowing for 5 draws - we can surely do that (and even a bit better) over 20 games! It's not just us though. With the top 7 well clear, anyone from 8th/9th and below can easily be in a relegation scrap.
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Jan 2, 2019 14:25:14 GMT 1
For context on the Askey points Ricketts first 6 games - 6 Points (1 Win, 3 Draws, 2 losses - Goal Difference -3) Askeys first 6 games - 3 points (3 loss, 3 draws - Goal Difference -1) Technically hes twice as good as Askey Sorry Glyn, but you can make numbers look like you want. Askey’s first six league games were against, Bradford (H) 1-0 loss, but remember the week of the game it was all kicking off with Nolan and Toto, so no doubt had an impact. Charlton (A) lost 2-1, look where there sitting now. Blackpool (H) drew 0-0, maybe could have got a result here. Doncaster (A) drew 0-0, again look where Doncaster are this season. Decent away point. Luton town (A) lost 3-2. Played well, unlucky to lose, and need i say more about where they are this season. Bristol Rovers (H) drew 1-1, thought we played good football in this game and were unlucky not to come away with three points. Now for Ricketts first six, Burton Albion (A) Terrible performance against a team at the time below us in the table. 2-1 loss. Peterbrough (H) 2-2, should have won this one but for a dodgy official decision at the end. Unlucky. Coventry (H) 1-0, against a team that hadn’t won since the end of October. Accrington (A) 2-1. Does anything need to be said. Sunderland (A) 1-1. Good point, but the football was damn awful. Still, good point. Fleetwood (H) 0-0, against a team who had lost there last six away games. Add to that the awful football once again. So looking at that, I’ll say it again, askey was treated harshly. There is also the context that Askey had a whole summer to build a team, spent a load of money, and could only muster 3 points from 6 games... which is and will always be the WORST start in the league history of the club for a new manager. Ricketts came into a team that had recovered slightly and got twice as many points... yes some of the performances have been bad, i have been at all 6 of those games, but maybe fairer to compare the first 6 games Ricketss has after the end of the Jan window.. as then hes had his players integrated a little more... I will make a bet its more than 3 points. The start to this season was laughable really looking back.
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Jan 2, 2019 14:26:15 GMT 1
A commonly held view when John Askey was in charge was that this is a very good group of players who were badly under performing, No matter how badly they are performing those within the game will be able to look beyond that and see whatever potential is available within a player. And no matter how badly a player is playing, they will at times show enough as to what they are about. So with that said, it'll be interesting to see if anyone comes a calling during this transfer window. Grant has been the standout, by a country mile and his performances can't have gone unnoticed but whether anyone would be willing to pay a fee for him at his age, dunno. Docherty is another but Rangers appear happy with his development (as is he hopefully knowing he'll get his chance at a higher level soon enough) so hopefully he is set to stay. Sure someone would take a punt on Fey. Sure Whalley would have been on peoples radar too before the injury. But other than that... anyhow, be interesting to see if anyone does inquire about any of our lads. I do wonder whether that view you mention is as commonly held as some might think... No one will need to pay a fee for Grant, hes out of contract in the summer. There is a year option on the contract, but who knows wht has to happen for that to be implemented, and if Grant HAS to sign it if offers are on the table.
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Post by SamHarvey on Jan 2, 2019 14:29:34 GMT 1
Sorry Glyn, but you can make numbers look like you want. Askey’s first six league games were against, Bradford (H) 1-0 loss, but remember the week of the game it was all kicking off with Nolan and Toto, so no doubt had an impact. Charlton (A) lost 2-1, look where there sitting now. Blackpool (H) drew 0-0, maybe could have got a result here. Doncaster (A) drew 0-0, again look where Doncaster are this season. Decent away point. Luton town (A) lost 3-2. Played well, unlucky to lose, and need i say more about where they are this season. Bristol Rovers (H) drew 1-1, thought we played good football in this game and were unlucky not to come away with three points. Now for Ricketts first six, Burton Albion (A) Terrible performance against a team at the time below us in the table. 2-1 loss. Peterbrough (H) 2-2, should have won this one but for a dodgy official decision at the end. Unlucky. Coventry (H) 1-0, against a team that hadn’t won since the end of October. Accrington (A) 2-1. Does anything need to be said. Sunderland (A) 1-1. Good point, but the football was damn awful. Still, good point. Fleetwood (H) 0-0, against a team who had lost there last six away games. Add to that the awful football once again. So looking at that, I’ll say it again, askey was treated harshly. There is also the context that Askey had a whole summer to build a team, spent a load of money, and could only muster 3 points from 6 games... which is and will always be the WORST start in the league history of the club for a new manager. Ricketts came into a team that had recovered slightly and got twice as many points... yes some of the performances have been bad, i have been at all 6 of those games, but maybe fairer to compare the first 6 games Ricketss has after the end of the Jan window.. as then hes had his players integrated a little more... I will make a bet its more than 3 points. The start to this season was laughable really looking back. Askey had lost, basically, a whole squad. He had to rebuild from the bottom. New keepers, new defenders, a new midfield, new forwards, was always going to take time to gel together. Add to that the inexperience of himself and his coaching staff. He needed time, it just wasn’t given to him.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jan 2, 2019 14:31:19 GMT 1
No matter how badly they are performing those within the game will be able to look beyond that and see whatever potential is available within a player. And no matter how badly a player is playing, they will at times show enough as to what they are about. So with that said, it'll be interesting to see if anyone comes a calling during this transfer window. Grant has been the standout, by a country mile and his performances can't have gone unnoticed but whether anyone would be willing to pay a fee for him at his age, dunno. Docherty is another but Rangers appear happy with his development (as is he hopefully knowing he'll get his chance at a higher level soon enough) so hopefully he is set to stay. Sure someone would take a punt on Fey. Sure Whalley would have been on peoples radar too before the injury. But other than that... anyhow, be interesting to see if anyone does inquire about any of our lads. I do wonder whether that view you mention is as commonly held as some might think... No one will need to pay a fee for Grant, hes out of contract in the summer. That's not good at all. Like I say, his performances can't have gone unnoticed. Gutted that we have such a player in such form within a side that's not up to much. Just feel it's all a bit of a waste...
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jan 2, 2019 14:43:24 GMT 1
There is also the context that Askey had a whole summer to build a team, spent a load of money, and could only muster 3 points from 6 games... which is and will always be the WORST start in the league history of the club for a new manager. Ricketts came into a team that had recovered slightly and got twice as many points... yes some of the performances have been bad, i have been at all 6 of those games, but maybe fairer to compare the first 6 games Ricketss has after the end of the Jan window.. as then hes had his players integrated a little more... I will make a bet its more than 3 points. The start to this season was laughable really looking back. Askey had lost, basically, a whole squad. He had to rebuild from the bottom. New keepers, new defenders, a new midfield, new forwards, was always going to take time to gel together. Add to that the inexperience of himself and his coaching staff. He needed time, it just wasn’t given to him. I would hope in the professional game that a manager is more than capable of getting a side to gel after 21 games of football. How many games do people think is needed? How many can you afford considering relegation and promotion? I mean until you realize that its not so much more time needed but the fact that it's actually beyond the managers skill to do so?
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Post by bobbytheblock19er on Jan 2, 2019 14:44:47 GMT 1
Samharvey askey has gone - it’s done , finished , the end . He isn’t coming back , ever .
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jan 2, 2019 14:45:23 GMT 1
For context on the Askey points Ricketts first 6 games - 6 Points (1 Win, 3 Draws, 2 losses - Goal Difference -3) Askeys first 6 games - 3 points (3 loss, 3 draws - Goal Difference -1) Technically hes twice as good as Askey Sorry Glyn, but you can make numbers look like you want. Askey’s first six league games were against, Bradford (H) 1-0 loss, but remember the week of the game it was all kicking off with Nolan and Toto, so no doubt had an impact. Charlton (A) lost 2-1, look where there sitting now. Blackpool (H) drew 0-0, maybe could have got a result here. Doncaster (A) drew 0-0, again look where Doncaster are this season. Decent away point. Luton town (A) lost 3-2. Played well, unlucky to lose, and need i say more about where they are this season. Bristol Rovers (H) drew 1-1, thought we played good football in this game and were unlucky not to come away with three points. Now for Ricketts first six, Burton Albion (A) Terrible performance against a team at the time below us in the table. 2-1 loss. Peterbrough (H) 2-2, should have won this one but for a dodgy official decision at the end. Unlucky. Coventry (H) 1-0, against a team that hadn’t won since the end of October. Accrington (A) 2-1. Does anything need to be said. Sunderland (A) 1-1. Good point, but the football was damn awful. Still, good point. Fleetwood (H) 0-0, against a team who had lost there last six away games. Add to that the awful football once again. So looking at that, I’ll say it again, askey was treated harshly. the problem for Askey was about perception ,performances and results . preception ; he did not seem to get a rapport with the fans ( to be fair many fans seem to have taken against him before he started) his media interviews were poor( if he had been winning i dont think it would have got so much negativity ) Performances; seem to struggle to find the right formation,played players out of position and towards the end the players looked to have stopped playing for him Results ; the dreadful start did not help but results were improving Rickets has managed five points from the last five games we continue to under perform and be inconsistent . i wonder if he had been chosen instead of Askey would fans be as tolerant or would we already be hearing rumbles of discontent . so can rickets keep us up ? will he have funds to strengthen the squad ? when he was appointed i was expecting an experienced number two to be appointed so the reality is we an inexperienced manager learning the ropes and that takes time.
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Post by Valerioch on Jan 2, 2019 16:01:29 GMT 1
And Fleetwood's last 10 away games including yesterday - W1 D2 L7. The 3 home draws against Bristol, Gillingham and Fleetwood were 6 points lost that shouldn't have been. You can chuck in Blackpool and Posh to that too Our home form is decent. It could’ve been great
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2019 17:03:23 GMT 1
Askey had lost, basically, a whole squad. Indeed. Twice unfortunately.
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Post by SamHarvey on Jan 2, 2019 17:31:04 GMT 1
Samharvey askey has gone - it’s done , finished , the end . He isn’t coming back , ever . The fact he’s gone doesn’t bother me. Well it didn’t sit well with me, but what’s done is done. What I found frustrating was the fans judgement on the man, when he had been given hardly anytime. Yet with Ricketts, fans seem quite happy to show there support of him, despite results being identical. Like i’ve said previously, I’d like all this to work out. But i just can’t see things improving under Ricketts.
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Jan 2, 2019 17:38:05 GMT 1
Results are not identical Sam, we just pointed that all out. Ricketts has taken TWICE as many points than Askey did across his first 6 game.... That's a fact. And all with a team he didn't build and had to get to know instantly less than 30- games into a management career. If anything that also goes to show just how bad Askeys start was (and we didn't win until game 10 way into September)
And if it does not work under Ricketts then pressure will come, but things are a struggle at the moment because Aksey left us with a unbalanced squad a a number of players we are paying to sit around and do nothing (Kennady, Loft) when that response should be used making this team better.
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