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Post by staffordshrew on Jan 10, 2019 13:04:44 GMT 1
Corbyn calling for a general election, again... Can anyone here see how that would actually help brexit? Just more of the same from him,putting his party interests above the national interest. Makes sense, the ruling party can't get it's business through parliament so is not really a government. The Tories would be in favour if they thought they would win an election.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jan 10, 2019 13:21:11 GMT 1
Corbyn calling for a general election, again... Can anyone here see how that would actually help brexit? Just more of the same from him,putting his party interests above the national interest. To be fair Labour are in opposition, it's pretty much their aim not to be...so of course he's going to do that. Might well have to come too if we can't get past this impasse. Although I suspect we'll go through all that and we'll be be to the exact same situation as we are now.
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Post by Valerioch on Jan 10, 2019 13:29:02 GMT 1
Corbyn calling for a general election, again... Can anyone here see how that would actually help brexit? Just more of the same from him,putting his party interests above the national interest. Help brexit? Who wants to do that? Are you a Tory? Because no Tory is entitled to lecture anyone about putting party before country. The country has been dragged into this whole mess because the Tory party couldn't resolve its differences over Europe. You believe that rubbish if it makes you sleep better at night. It was called because 13% and over 3,800,000 people voted UKIP in 2015, Cameron knew they were breathing down his neck so put it in the manifesto. YES, the British electorate pushed the Tories to it, not infighting. You really think without UKIP, Cameron would've called the referendum? Deluded or what. He'd have had no need to as he'd have crushed Labour even more than the 331 seats he won Finally, look how split Labour also are over the EU, and how to exit... but lets ignore that eh
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Post by Valerioch on Jan 10, 2019 13:30:29 GMT 1
Corbyn wanting another election - can't see why.
Despite the widely acclaimed Tory shambles, Jezza is STILL behind in most polls, some at 5%!!
Atleast it would surely be the final nail in his coffin were he to lose a 2nd election.
We might actually get a credible opposition then
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Post by tvor on Jan 10, 2019 14:03:36 GMT 1
The polls proved not be any sort of accurate guide in the build up to both the last general election and the EU referendum.
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Post by Worthingshrew on Jan 10, 2019 14:20:52 GMT 1
Jezza doesn’t want a second referendum when people can decide on the sort of Brexit they want, but does want an election to sort Brexit out? Of course, in elections people vote on a whole wide range of issues, so it would ave no relevance really to Brexit. He’s like a candle in the wind.
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Post by venceremos on Jan 10, 2019 14:28:39 GMT 1
Help brexit? Who wants to do that? Are you a Tory? Because no Tory is entitled to lecture anyone about putting party before country. The country has been dragged into this whole mess because the Tory party couldn't resolve its differences over Europe. You believe that rubbish if it makes you sleep better at night. It was called because 13% and over 3,800,000 people voted UKIP in 2015, Cameron knew they were breathing down his neck so put it in the manifesto. YES, the British electorate pushed the Tories to it, not infighting. You really think without UKIP, Cameron would've called the referendum? Deluded or what. He'd have had no need to as he'd have crushed Labour even more than the 331 seats he won Finally, look how split Labour also are over the EU, and how to exit... but lets ignore that eh I wouldn't deny Labour are divided over brexit and they might lose my vote for that reason - any party that doesn't oppose brexit or, at least, back a second referendum doesn't have my support. That's my red line. What was Ukip? Predominantly the fall out from the Eurosceptic right wing of the Tory party. Cameron was running scared of it but Ukip still had a long way to go to achieve any real power. Cameron knew there were also elements still within his own party pulling in the same direction as Ukip. The Tory schism had been evident since the 1980s, if not earlier. Rather than take them on directly, he called the referendum. But thanks for your literally incredible attempt to rewrite British political history as though Ukip came from nowhere and the Tory party was always of one mind on Europe. I like a laugh as much as the next guy.
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Post by Valerioch on Jan 10, 2019 14:31:35 GMT 1
You believe that rubbish if it makes you sleep better at night. It was called because 13% and over 3,800,000 people voted UKIP in 2015, Cameron knew they were breathing down his neck so put it in the manifesto. YES, the British electorate pushed the Tories to it, not infighting. You really think without UKIP, Cameron would've called the referendum? Deluded or what. He'd have had no need to as he'd have crushed Labour even more than the 331 seats he won Finally, look how split Labour also are over the EU, and how to exit... but lets ignore that eh I wouldn't deny Labour are divided over brexit and they might lose my vote for that reason - any party that doesn't oppose brexit or, at least, back a second referendum doesn't have my support. That's my red line. What was Ukip? Predominantly the fall out from the Eurosceptic right wing of the Tory party. Cameron was running scared of it but Ukip still had a long way to go to achieve any real power. Cameron knew there were also elements still within his own party pulling in the same direction as Ukip. The Tory schism had been evident since the 1980s, if not earlier. Rather than take them on directly, he called the referendum. But thanks for your literally incredible attempt to rewrite British political history as though Ukip came from nowhere and the Tory party was always of one mind on Europe. I like a laugh as much as the next guy. Yet 90% of the British electorate voted for Parties in 2017 election, who promised to complete Brexit in their manifesto's... Part of me hopes Labour support a 2nd referendum and support remain - they would betray and lose millions of voters. Would put them to bed for another 5 years too, win win
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Post by martinshrew on Jan 10, 2019 15:43:58 GMT 1
I wouldn't deny Labour are divided over brexit and they might lose my vote for that reason - any party that doesn't oppose brexit or, at least, back a second referendum doesn't have my support. That's my red line. What was Ukip? Predominantly the fall out from the Eurosceptic right wing of the Tory party. Cameron was running scared of it but Ukip still had a long way to go to achieve any real power. Cameron knew there were also elements still within his own party pulling in the same direction as Ukip. The Tory schism had been evident since the 1980s, if not earlier. Rather than take them on directly, he called the referendum. But thanks for your literally incredible attempt to rewrite British political history as though Ukip came from nowhere and the Tory party was always of one mind on Europe. I like a laugh as much as the next guy. Part of me hopes Labour support a 2nd referendum and support remain - they would betray and lose millions of voters. Would put them to bed for another 5 years too, win win I don't even think it needs this, athough i would love to watch him loose again. The Tories are making a right mess of Brexit and he still can't command a majority in the polls.
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Post by davycrockett on Jan 10, 2019 16:14:48 GMT 1
I wouldn't deny Labour are divided over brexit and they might lose my vote for that reason - any party that doesn't oppose brexit or, at least, back a second referendum doesn't have my support. That's my red line. What was Ukip? Predominantly the fall out from the Eurosceptic right wing of the Tory party. Cameron was running scared of it but Ukip still had a long way to go to achieve any real power. Cameron knew there were also elements still within his own party pulling in the same direction as Ukip. The Tory schism had been evident since the 1980s, if not earlier. Rather than take them on directly, he called the referendum. But thanks for your literally incredible attempt to rewrite British political history as though Ukip came from nowhere and the Tory party was always of one mind on Europe. I like a laugh as much as the next guy. Yet 90% of the British electorate voted for Parties in 2017 election, who promised to complete Brexit in their manifesto's... Part of me hopes Labour support a 2nd referendum and support remain - they would betray and lose millions of voters. Would put them to bed for another 5 years too, win win What happens if they gain millions of voters though? Polls suggest a 9 point lead for remain ? Remainers making all the noise but things not going well for Mays deal.... Win Win situation, we remain in the E.U. and get rid of the Tories 👍 Happy Days
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Post by Valerioch on Jan 10, 2019 16:19:54 GMT 1
Yet 90% of the British electorate voted for Parties in 2017 election, who promised to complete Brexit in their manifesto's... Part of me hopes Labour support a 2nd referendum and support remain - they would betray and lose millions of voters. Would put them to bed for another 5 years too, win win What happens if they gain millions of voters though? Polls suggest a 9 point lead for remain ? Remainers making all the noise but things not going well for Mays deal.... Win Win situation, we remain in the E.U. and get rid of the Tories 👍 Happy Days Where will labour gain millions of remainers from? Might get a few across Green/SNP/Lib Dems but apart from Scotland it would hardly dent the surface. They have a lot more to lose, millions of labour supporters voted Leave and would feel betrayed should they back a 2nd referendum The first polling site when Googled suggests 46% remain, 39% leave. Only in mid December this was a 1% gap Back in June 2016 Remain was also ahead in the polls, we all know what happened...
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Post by Valerioch on Jan 10, 2019 16:24:11 GMT 1
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Post by davycrockett on Jan 10, 2019 17:11:09 GMT 1
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Post by tvor on Jan 10, 2019 17:12:22 GMT 1
Polls mean bugger all unless they are actually elections or referendums.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jan 10, 2019 17:21:13 GMT 1
Brexs**ters will always find the poll that suits their agenda That's hilarious considering what happened in the first referendum...
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Post by Valerioch on Jan 10, 2019 17:25:52 GMT 1
As I said, I googled it and selected the very first link. No agenda there at all. Just a bit of nervousness on your side!
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Post by Valerioch on Jan 10, 2019 17:27:08 GMT 1
Brexs**ters will always find the poll that suits their agenda That's hilarious considering what happened in the first referendum... It’s brilliantly hilarious, 2.5 years on and they are still in denial with heads in the sand, expecting 1 day they will wake up from this
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Post by davycrockett on Jan 10, 2019 17:49:24 GMT 1
As I said, I googled it and selected the very first link. No agenda there at all. Just a bit of nervousness on your side! Your not wrong, very nervous on what might happen in 78 days time... and Stutty’s also right not in denial with head in the sand but very concerned and hoping one day the country will wake up .... Just answer one question, how will leavers feel if Mays deal wins the vote? Happy you’ve got what you voted for?
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Post by neilsalop on Jan 10, 2019 17:56:14 GMT 1
Hey salopross.
1) The Department for Education has committed that by 2020 school funding in England will rise to a record £43.5bn. There already is more money than ever before being pumped into schools. Also, on a more local point, funding for Shropshire schools has, overall, increased. Yes some have seen a reduction but I’m confident that Daniel will, as always, try his upmost with the DfE to secure further funds.
Education spending as a %age of GDP was at its highest level since the late '70s in 2010 of 5.8% (might be worth looking into who was in government at the peak times and who was in during the troughs). Since then it has been dropping and is now at its lowest (4.4%) since the '60s. I'm sure your mate Daniel will get around to chatting to the DfE as soon as someone extracts his head from between Mohammed bin Salmans butt cheeks.
3) This is an issue that is sadly seen across the UK and indeed Shrewsbury. I would love to see an end to homelessness (I’m sure we all would) and we are committed to eliminating rough sleeping by 2027 by committing £100m. Once this has been done I agree with Andy Street as he said ‘ultimately, we are working to ‘design out’ homelessness entirely, by helping at-risk people before they get to a crisis point’.
Since 2010 the amount of rough sleepers has doubled. If your party are so concerned why have they left 9 years before commiting to do somethiong about it. There are nearly 5,000 people sleeping on the streets of this once proud country and many of them are ex-servicemen. Your commitment to provide £100m over the next 8 years is just as likely to go the same way as Osbournes promise of a £10 minimum wage by 2020. You do recall that budget don't you?
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jan 10, 2019 19:13:02 GMT 1
There are nearly 5,000 people sleeping on the streets of this once proud country and many of them are ex-servicemen.
5,000? That can't be right can it? Where did you get that number? Only from what is reported here... Germany: 150 percent rise in number of homeless since 2014...the number of those living on the streets of Germany stands at 52,000. I gather sleeping and living on the streets is considered the same when looking to these statistics. So not sure how there can be such a huge difference between the two... And I can certainly say living in one of Germany's bigger cities that there has been a very noticeable increase these last few years.
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Post by thesensationaljt on Jan 10, 2019 19:39:59 GMT 1
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Post by venceremos on Jan 10, 2019 19:45:13 GMT 1
I wouldn't deny Labour are divided over brexit and they might lose my vote for that reason - any party that doesn't oppose brexit or, at least, back a second referendum doesn't have my support. That's my red line. What was Ukip? Predominantly the fall out from the Eurosceptic right wing of the Tory party. Cameron was running scared of it but Ukip still had a long way to go to achieve any real power. Cameron knew there were also elements still within his own party pulling in the same direction as Ukip. The Tory schism had been evident since the 1980s, if not earlier. Rather than take them on directly, he called the referendum. But thanks for your literally incredible attempt to rewrite British political history as though Ukip came from nowhere and the Tory party was always of one mind on Europe. I like a laugh as much as the next guy. Yet 90% of the British electorate voted for Parties in 2017 election, who promised to complete Brexit in their manifesto's... Part of me hopes Labour support a 2nd referendum and support remain - they would betray and lose millions of voters. Would put them to bed for another 5 years too, win win "90% supported parties who blah, blah, blah ......" I voted Labour, as did a lot of people I know, including my europhile, Lib Dem brother. We just wanted the Tories out. We also knew brexit was light years away from being delivered and there was every chance it wouldn't happen if we got rid of them or, even if it did, it wouldn't be a brexit that any of the brextremists would recognise or like. Do you support 100% of everything in the manifesto of the party that gets your vote and do you expect them to deliver 100% of that manifesto? I doubt the former and you'd be astonishingly naive to do the latter. 90% of voters did not vote for brexit in 2017 and it's only mischievous brexiteers who keep peddling that nonsense. All of me hopes Labour backs anything that stops brexit. It's nonsense to assert this would cost them millions of votes when the evidence is that most Labour voters voted remain in 2016 and most are opposed to brexit now. Labour doesn't win elections in Stoke and Sunderland, it wins them in Scotland, the south, London and the other big cities - remain areas, in other words. If Labour is too closely associated with brexit, it will be suicidal.
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Post by venceremos on Jan 10, 2019 19:51:23 GMT 1
What happens if they gain millions of voters though? Polls suggest a 9 point lead for remain ? Remainers making all the noise but things not going well for Mays deal.... Win Win situation, we remain in the E.U. and get rid of the Tories 👍 Happy Days Where will labour gain millions of remainers from? Might get a few across Green/SNP/Lib Dems but apart from Scotland it would hardly dent the surface. They have a lot more to lose, millions of labour supporters voted Leave and would feel betrayed should they back a 2nd referendumLabour already has millions of remainers, far more than it has leavers - 65% of Labour's 2015 voters voted remain in 2016, 35% voted leave - YouGov. Stop with the b******s about Labour support being for leave. It isn't and never was.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jan 10, 2019 20:17:08 GMT 1
Where will labour gain millions of remainers from? Might get a few across Green/SNP/Lib Dems but apart from Scotland it would hardly dent the surface. They have a lot more to lose, millions of labour supporters voted Leave and would feel betrayed should they back a 2nd referendumLabour already has millions of remainers, far more than it has leavers - 65% of Labour's 2015 voters voted remain in 2016, 35% voted leave - YouGov. Stop with the b******s about Labour support being for leave. It isn't and never was. Eh? He's not saying that is he. He's saying the element of Labour's support that voted for Brexit, which may indeed be in the millions, may now turn their back on Labour at the next election (if they look to reverse Brexit). Which could hurt them. If a fair chunk of that 35% dump Labour it will do. ..unless remainers come over from elsewhere. But with corbyn in place, not sure too many tory remainers would do so. Labour needs all the votes it can get, it can't afford to lose any no matter what you think. Even Corbyn understands this...
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Post by Valerioch on Jan 10, 2019 21:06:07 GMT 1
Yet 90% of the British electorate voted for Parties in 2017 election, who promised to complete Brexit in their manifesto's... Part of me hopes Labour support a 2nd referendum and support remain - they would betray and lose millions of voters. Would put them to bed for another 5 years too, win win "90% supported parties who blah, blah, blah ......" I voted Labour, as did a lot of people I know, including my europhile, Lib Dem brother. We just wanted the Tories out. We also knew brexit was light years away from being delivered and there was every chance it wouldn't happen if we got rid of them or, even if it did, it wouldn't be a brexit that any of the brextremists would recognise or like. Do you support 100% of everything in the manifesto of the party that gets your vote and do you expect them to deliver 100% of that manifesto? I doubt the former and you'd be astonishingly naive to do the latter. 90% of voters did not vote for brexit in 2017 and it's only mischievous brexiteers who keep peddling that nonsense. All of me hopes Labour backs anything that stops brexit. It's nonsense to assert this would cost them millions of votes when the evidence is that most Labour voters voted remain in 2016 and most are opposed to brexit now. Labour doesn't win elections in Stoke and Sunderland, it wins them in Scotland, the south, London and the other big cities - remain areas, in other words. If Labour is too closely associated with brexit, it will be suicidal. Bexit was always going to dominate the policy of this parliament whoever won the 2017 election. By the way, it did cost them millions of voters in 2015. Not just right wing Tories who made up the 3.8m UKIP votes. Millions of labour too, turned their back on Red Ed and his policy grave stone
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Post by Valerioch on Jan 10, 2019 21:08:34 GMT 1
Labour already has millions of remainers, far more than it has leavers - 65% of Labour's 2015 voters voted remain in 2016, 35% voted leave - YouGov. Stop with the b******s about Labour support being for leave. It isn't and never was. Eh? He's not saying that is he. He's saying the element of Labour's support that voted for Brexit, which may indeed be in the millions, may now turn their back on Labour at the next election (if they look to reverse Brexit). Which could hurt them. If a fair chunk of that 35% dump Labour it will do. ..unless remainers come over from elsewhere. But with corbyn in place, not sure too many tory remainers would do so. Labour needs all the votes it can get, it can't afford to lose any no matter what you think. Even Corbyn understands this... Well said though I feel it will be in vein He’s got his head in the sand and hoping it will all go away. It won’t. Millions of labour voters want Brexit. Or is he claiming of the 17.4m Brexiteers, none vote Labour!? No wonder they still lost an election to this mess of a government if they are all as deluded as Venceremos
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Post by neilsalop on Jan 10, 2019 21:36:44 GMT 1
There are nearly 5,000 people sleeping on the streets of this once proud country and many of them are ex-servicemen.
5,000? That can't be right can it? Where did you get that number? Only from what is reported here... Germany: 150 percent rise in number of homeless since 2014...the number of those living on the streets of Germany stands at 52,000. I gather sleeping and living on the streets is considered the same when looking to these statistics. So not sure how there can be such a huge difference between the two... And I can certainly say living in one of Germany's bigger cities that there has been a very noticeable increase these last few years. 5,000 sleeping on the streets, sleeping rough. That won't include those sleeping in tents, cars, sofa surfing, homeless hostels, B+Bs, emergency accommodation, temp accommodation, women's refuges. The figure for those is closer to 350,000. This country is seriously fu#tup and a right wing Tory brexit is the very last thing it needs. Like since when did Tories care about poor people or the working class. They see us as commodities and nothing more and yet they still get working class votes.
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Post by neilsalop on Jan 10, 2019 21:39:33 GMT 1
Eh? He's not saying that is he. He's saying the element of Labour's support that voted for Brexit, which may indeed be in the millions, may now turn their back on Labour at the next election (if they look to reverse Brexit). Which could hurt them. If a fair chunk of that 35% dump Labour it will do. ..unless remainers come over from elsewhere. But with corbyn in place, not sure too many tory remainers would do so. Labour needs all the votes it can get, it can't afford to lose any no matter what you think. Even Corbyn understands this... Well said though I feel it will be in vein He’s got his head in the sand and hoping it will all go away. It won’t. Millions of labour voters want Brexit. Or is he claiming of the 17.4m Brexiteers, none vote Labour!? No wonder they still lost an election to this mess of a government if they are all as deluded as Venceremos VAIN genius. A vein is a blood vessel. FFS the the Tories really need to spend more on education 😀
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Post by Valerioch on Jan 10, 2019 21:42:39 GMT 1
Well said though I feel it will be in vein He’s got his head in the sand and hoping it will all go away. It won’t. Millions of labour voters want Brexit. Or is he claiming of the 17.4m Brexiteers, none vote Labour!? No wonder they still lost an election to this mess of a government if they are all as deluded as Venceremos VAIN genius. A vein is a blood vessel. FFS the the Tories really need to spend more on education 😀 A post which says “I have no comeback to the point made in your post” Must try harder
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jan 10, 2019 21:44:24 GMT 1
Eh? He's not saying that is he. He's saying the element of Labour's support that voted for Brexit, which may indeed be in the millions, may now turn their back on Labour at the next election (if they look to reverse Brexit). Which could hurt them. If a fair chunk of that 35% dump Labour it will do. ..unless remainers come over from elsewhere. But with corbyn in place, not sure too many tory remainers would do so. Labour needs all the votes it can get, it can't afford to lose any no matter what you think. Even Corbyn understands this... Well said though I feel it will be in vein He’s got his head in the sand and hoping it will all go away. It won’t. Millions of labour voters want Brexit. Or is he claiming of the 17.4m Brexiteers, none vote Labour!? No wonder they still lost an election to this mess of a government if they are all as deluded as Venceremos I guess it'll all come down to priorities; as with seemingly everything to do with UK politics today, what folk would deem the least worse option. How many Tories for example, could live with a Corbyn government if it meant the UK remained in the EU compared to how many Labour supporters would be willing to continue with the Tories if it meant the chances of the UK leaving were higher. Even if some Labour supporters haven't got a clue I've no doubt Corbyn knows that he is walking a tight line, sure he knows he has a very difficult balancing act on his hands. All depends on how many votes maybe lost and gained and also where, as I guess that will be all important when it would come to an election. He's in a difficult spot.
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