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Post by darkshrew on Aug 14, 2019 20:28:07 GMT 1
i have just re read your initial post. What utter bollox you have spouted. How you can mix calling UK poloticians collaborators with the EU and to turn that into calling the French Nazis is laughable. Please stop making things up to fit your agenda. And Macron's objectionable quote is ?
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Post by percy on Aug 14, 2019 20:46:50 GMT 1
i have just re read your initial post. What utter bollox you have spouted. How you can mix calling UK poloticians collaborators with the EU and to turn that into calling the French Nazis is laughable. Please stop making things up to fit your agenda. If past performance is anything to go by I do not expect you to actually give an example of the offensive Macron quotes or be anything but obtuse in your defence of Boris. The story is being run by French media - I do not have the power to influence that to suit my agenda. Give TF1 a watch or read Le Monde tomorrow as it will probably be there too. These are French speakers, but I have to say that as an English speaker I agree that the use of the word collaborator is neither expected or understandable in the context of what he is trying to say. Look at the exact quote given by you right wing mate above - how on earth does the use of the word fit ? It is clearly there to make an impact. I would say that the impact intended was to cast the actions of those wishing to remain in the EU in an emotively derogatory way - striving to heal the wounds between Leave and Remain like a true Tory. Perhaps the impact on the French was a Brucey Bonus, but you'd expect someone with a brain to think of it when they are speaking on a European subject. Maybe he will call remainers Quislings or Paedos next ?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2019 21:30:00 GMT 1
Johnson knows what he's doing by using the term collaborators. The term offending the French (understandably, because they have history too...), is a by-product of his authoritarian wet-dream for Brexit. He's probably knocking one out right now over that book about Churchill he wrote.
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Post by mattmw on Aug 14, 2019 21:48:30 GMT 1
Johnson knows what he's doing by using the term collaborators. The term offending the French (understandably, because they have history too...), is a by-product of his authoritarian wet-dream for Brexit. He's probably knocking one out right now over that book about Churchill he wrote. Its text book Steve Bannon - who seems to be Johnson's speech writer now. Knowlingly and planned use of specific pieces of language to appeal to a group of followers; then pretend not to know the consequences of the use of the language and blame other for misinterpreting it. Its a classic Bannon technique. Its a well worn far right technique increasingly employed by politicians. Johnson needs to be very careful who he is associating with and the reputation it will have on his time as PM Clearest sign yet that Johnson and his followers know Brexit will be a disaster and are lining up their excuses and who to blame when the wheels start to fall off
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Post by staffordshrew on Aug 14, 2019 22:00:17 GMT 1
Johnson knows what he's doing by using the term collaborators. The term offending the French (understandably, because they have history too...), is a by-product of his authoritarian wet-dream for Brexit. He's probably knocking one out right now over that book about Churchill he wrote. Clearest sign yet that Johnson and his followers know Brexit will be a disaster and are lining up their excuses and who to blame when the wheels start to fall off For many in the Tory party survival of the Tory party is more important than the consequences of Brexit.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2019 22:33:38 GMT 1
i have just re read your initial post. What utter bollox you have spouted. How you can mix calling UK poloticians collaborators with the EU and to turn that into calling the French Nazis is laughable. Please stop making things up to fit your agenda. If past performance is anything to go by I do not expect you to actually give an example of the offensive Macron quotes or be anything but obtuse in your defence of Boris. The story is being run by French media - I do not have the power to influence that to suit my agenda. Give TF1 a watch or read Le Monde tomorrow as it will probably be there too. These are French speakers, but I have to say that as an English speaker I agree that the use of the word collaborator is neither expected or understandable in the context of what he is trying to say. Look at the exact quote given by you right wing mate above - how on earth does the use of the word fit ? It is clearly there to make an impact. I would say that the impact intended was to cast the actions of those wishing to remain in the EU in an emotively derogatory way - striving to heal the wounds between Leave and Remain like a true Tory. Perhaps the impact on the French was a Brucey Bonus, but you'd expect someone with a brain to think of it when they are speaking on a European subject. Maybe he will call remainers Quislings or Paedos next ? I dont care how the french media are hyping it up He clearly says that there are collaborators within the uk that are trying to block brexit with the eu. Now i am probably not as educated as some... but even my limited state education, i read that as the collaborators being British British poloticians and not the eu. I cant help how the french media want to take it.. but it fits your agenda, so read it however you want, but ro take it as singling the french out to be nazis is pure stupid.
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Post by darkshrew on Aug 15, 2019 7:25:59 GMT 1
If past performance is anything to go by I do not expect you to actually give an example of the offensive Macron quotes or be anything but obtuse in your defence of Boris. The story is being run by French media - I do not have the power to influence that to suit my agenda. Give TF1 a watch or read Le Monde tomorrow as it will probably be there too. These are French speakers, but I have to say that as an English speaker I agree that the use of the word collaborator is neither expected or understandable in the context of what he is trying to say. Look at the exact quote given by you right wing mate above - how on earth does the use of the word fit ? It is clearly there to make an impact. I would say that the impact intended was to cast the actions of those wishing to remain in the EU in an emotively derogatory way - striving to heal the wounds between Leave and Remain like a true Tory. Perhaps the impact on the French was a Brucey Bonus, but you'd expect someone with a brain to think of it when they are speaking on a European subject. Maybe he will call remainers Quislings or Paedos next ? I dont care how the french media are hyping it up He clearly says that there are collaborators within the uk that are trying to block brexit with the eu. Now i am probably not as educated as some... but even my limited state education, i read that as the collaborators being British British poloticians and not the eu. I cant help how the french media want to take it.. but it fits your agenda, so read it however you want, but ro take it as singling the french out to be nazis is pure stupid. Collaborator = uk politician = nasty French people who collaborated during the war evil counterpart who is being collaborated with = the eu = the nazis during the war even with my state education I can work that out. The French are in the eu hence they are cast as the nazis in boris’ Scenario. Perhaps you should have listened more at school. Newsnight last night seemed to be somewhat more aligned with the French media interpretation and the idea that the “collaborator” comments were intentionally inflammatory to stir up anger against those who would oppose a no deal.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Aug 15, 2019 8:01:39 GMT 1
Collaborating, collaboraters, Occupied France, Nazis, EU.
Riiiiiiight. You can tell things are coming to a head soon. Does seem rather desperate stuff this.
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Post by camdenshrew on Aug 15, 2019 8:53:49 GMT 1
Johnson tries to cast himself as some sort of latter-day Churchill and seems to equate Brexit with World War 2. It's absolutely pathetic. He's no Churchill and Brexit is not World War 2. It's a monumental and unnecessary act of self-harm and to blame Johnny Foreigner or Remainers as collaborators for the No Deal chaos which is now unfolding beggars belief.
The Tories have inflicted their own psycho drama about Europe on the rest of us for far too long, have made this country a laughing stock and deserve to be banished from power for a long, long time.
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Post by darkshrew on Aug 15, 2019 8:54:06 GMT 1
Collaborating, collaboraters, Occupied France, Nazis, EU. Riiiiiiight. You can tell things are coming to a head soon. Does seem rather desperate stuff this. Indeed - as noted above; Boris is doing this for a reason.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2019 9:03:55 GMT 1
As mentioned previously it's all part of his me vs the establishment narrative in preperation for a GE.
Its divide and conquer as per.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Aug 15, 2019 9:15:21 GMT 1
Collaborating, collaboraters, Occupied France, Nazis, EU. Riiiiiiight. You can tell things are coming to a head soon. Does seem rather desperate stuff this. Indeed - as noted above; Boris is doing this for a reason. Haha, very good. But nah, I'm really not sure that is the case. Clearly not as much as you anyhow. 👍
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2019 9:45:50 GMT 1
Collaborating, collaboraters, Occupied France, Nazis, EU. Riiiiiiight. You can tell things are coming to a head soon. Does seem rather desperate stuff this. Unfortunately Mr Johnson has history with our French neighbours so most things he now says or does is going to be seen as aggressive. www.thelocal.fr/20190723/boris-johnson-french-bashing-turds-brexitSeriously, how did this guy occupy a post as foreign secretary let alone becoming our PM.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2019 9:47:31 GMT 1
Johnson tries to cast himself as some sort of latter-day Churchill and seems to equate Brexit with World War 2. It's absolutely pathetic. He's no Churchill and Brexit is not World War 2. It's a monumental and unnecessary act of self-harm and to blame Johnny Foreigner or Remainers as collaborators for the No Deal chaos which is now unfolding beggars belief. The Tories have inflicted their own psycho drama about Europe on the rest of us for far too long, have made this country a laughing stock and deserve to be banished from power for a long, long time. When will you people realise that what is going on now, is what should have been going on in the first instance. Prior to the referendum, the then Prime Minister, went to the EU and basically said, look lads, we need to reform, and bring in a few changes. He came away from that with 5 minor concessions that were time limited. He then tried to sell it to the country that we had won a major reform, and the EU was now going to cut it waste and become a better place. In reality, the British people were not happy. On 23rd June 2016, this was put to the test, and this was after a s**t campaign that was full of lies and deceit from both sides. We were given full facts from the remain side in a leaflet that cost the tax payer £9.3mil that spelt it out. We were told from the outset that we can expect Immediate recession (M Carney 12th May 2016), we were told by the COE that we could expect an emergency "Punishment Budget" immediately after if we were to vote leave, We were even told by Mr B Obhama that we would end up at the back of the Que on a trade deal with the USA. Despite all of this, the country went to a confirmatory first vote and decided in the majority that decided that it was in the best of the UK's interest to LEAVE THE EU. Now you can argue as much as you want, about the why's and wherefores, the lies and deceit by all sides, how stupid the people of the UK are, but if you are so blinded by vitriol and hatred of our system to see that by not leaving and carrying out democracy is going to be damaging beyond repair. A Second Referendum or Confirmatory vote is completely the wrong way to go, as you have to carry out democracy first. Not just keep on voting until you get what you want. Stop telling people who voted to leave that they had no idea, stop telling the people who voted to leave that they did not understand what they were doing. It was a simple binary choice, where we were told that we would leave, if that was want the country voted for. A deal would be nice, but it was not a necessity. Since then the Vocal Minority has been doing its level best to thwart the Peoples vote. You get tosspots who twist every word that is said, look at what Percy has put.... twisting to suit the agenda. You get people trying to remove the one chance of getting a good deal, which is the threat of No Deal removed from the agenda, I cannot think of any thing more stupid to do, as that says to the EU, do whatever you want, as we have no choice but to accept. So its not a Churchillian stance of Boris, its the strong leadership we have need for a long time, and long may it continue.
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Post by camdenshrew on Aug 15, 2019 9:58:26 GMT 1
When are people lie you going to realise that No Deal was hardly mentioned in the referendum (we could have a cake and eat it, remember?) and there is absolutely no mandate for it?
Strong leadership? It's kamikaze stuff from a Poundland politician who has only ever cared about himself. What is the problem with asking for a confirmatory vote on where we now are, which is a million miles away from what was promised? You can still vote to leave.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2019 10:01:22 GMT 1
When are people lie you going to realise that No Deal was hardly mentioned in the referendum (we could have a cake and eat it, remember?) and there is absolutely no mandate for it? Strong leadership? It's kamikaze stuff from a Poundland politician who has only ever cared about himself. What is the problem with asking for a confirmatory vote on where we now are, which is a million miles away from what was promised? You can still vote to leave. The only question that should be asked is how to leave. With the deal negotiated (Term used loosely, but really reads, leave under the terms of the EU) or Leave with NO Deal. The mandate comes from the Booklet that the Prime Minister at the time set out. Stating a deal was not guaranteed. You know, the book that was sent to every household in the UK. No deal was not needed to be mentioned, as it was the default position. A deal is still possible, but the EU will not renegotiate after the disaster that TM placed the country into.
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Post by staffordshrew on Aug 15, 2019 10:06:56 GMT 1
Johnson tries to cast himself as some sort of latter-day Churchill and seems to equate Brexit with World War 2. It's absolutely pathetic. He's no Churchill and Brexit is not World War 2. It's a monumental and unnecessary act of self-harm and to blame Johnny Foreigner or Remainers as collaborators for the No Deal chaos which is now unfolding beggars belief. The Tories have inflicted their own psycho drama about Europe on the rest of us for far too long, have made this country a laughing stock and deserve to be banished from power for a long, long time. When will you people realise that what is going on now, is what should have been going on in the first instance. Prior to the referendum, the then Prime Minister, went to the EU and basically said, look lads, we need to reform, and bring in a few changes. He came away from that with 5 minor concessions that were time limited. He then tried to sell it to the country that we had won a major reform, and the EU was now going to cut it waste and become a better place. In reality, the British people were not happy. On 23rd June 2016, this was put to the test, and this was after a s**t campaign that was full of lies and deceit from both sides. We were given full facts from the remain side in a leaflet that cost the tax payer £9.3mil that spelt it out. We were told from the outset that we can expect Immediate recession (M Carney 12th May 2016), we were told by the COE that we could expect an emergency "Punishment Budget" immediately after if we were to vote leave, We were even told by Mr B Obhama that we would end up at the back of the Que on a trade deal with the USA. Despite all of this, the country went to a confirmatory first vote and decided in the majority that decided that it was in the best of the UK's interest to LEAVE THE EU. Now you can argue as much as you want, about the why's and wherefores, the lies and deceit by all sides, how stupid the people of the UK are, but if you are so blinded by vitriol and hatred of our system to see that by not leaving and carrying out democracy is going to be damaging beyond repair. A Second Referendum or Confirmatory vote is completely the wrong way to go, as you have to carry out democracy first. Not just keep on voting until you get what you want. Stop telling people who voted to leave that they had no idea, stop telling the people who voted to leave that they did not understand what they were doing. It was a simple binary choice, where we were told that we would leave, if that was want the country voted for. A deal would be nice, but it was not a necessity. Since then the Vocal Minority has been doing its level best to thwart the Peoples vote. You get tosspots who twist every word that is said, look at what Percy has put.... twisting to suit the agenda. You get people trying to remove the one chance of getting a good deal, which is the threat of No Deal removed from the agenda, I cannot think of any thing more stupid to do, as that says to the EU, do whatever you want, as we have no choice but to accept. So its not a Churchillian stance of Boris, its the strong leadership we have need for a long time, and long may it continue. So we are to take a major one off step to leave the EU based on the result of "a s**t campaign that was full of lies and deceit from both sides"? At no time did anyone outline what sort of deal we were going to get or not get. The implication was that we would be able to revert to some sort of common market arrangement, the sort of thing Maggie liked. There was a lot of talk about a confirmatory referendum that was then subdued by saying that parliament would have the final say, but now that final say is being ignored.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Aug 15, 2019 10:14:48 GMT 1
Collaborating, collaboraters, Occupied France, Nazis, EU. Riiiiiiight. You can tell things are coming to a head soon. Does seem rather desperate stuff this. Unfortunately Mr Johnson has history with our French neighbours so most things he now says or does is going to be seen as aggressive. www.thelocal.fr/20190723/boris-johnson-french-bashing-turds-brexitSeriously, how did this guy occupy a post as foreign secretary let alone becoming our PM. Well I think an awful lot of people agree with your last statement and clearly don't want him there. So with that said, come what may, most things he says or does, to our neighbors or otherwise, is going to be seen as aggressive. Still, the times we live in. I very much doubt it'll be the last time the Nazis are wheeled out when looking to discredit Johnson.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2019 11:31:19 GMT 1
So we are to take a major one off step to leave the EU based on the result of "a s**t campaign that was full of lies and deceit from both sides"? At no time did anyone outline what sort of deal we were going to get or not get. The implication was that we would be able to revert to some sort of common market arrangement, the sort of thing Maggie liked. There was a lot of talk about a confirmatory referendum that was then subdued by saying that parliament would have the final say, but now that final say is being ignored. Unfortunately yes, or democracy as we know it dies, its not like it was not spelt out like loads of times, everyone knew the consequences. It was not a decision taken lightly by many people.
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Post by mattmw on Aug 15, 2019 13:14:42 GMT 1
Johnson tries to cast himself as some sort of latter-day Churchill and seems to equate Brexit with World War 2. It's absolutely pathetic. He's no Churchill and Brexit is not World War 2. It's a monumental and unnecessary act of self-harm and to blame Johnny Foreigner or Remainers as collaborators for the No Deal chaos which is now unfolding beggars belief. The Tories have inflicted their own psycho drama about Europe on the rest of us for far too long, have made this country a laughing stock and deserve to be banished from power for a long, long time. When will you people realise that what is going on now, is what should have been going on in the first instance. Prior to the referendum, the then Prime Minister, went to the EU and basically said, look lads, we need to reform, and bring in a few changes. He came away from that with 5 minor concessions that were time limited. He then tried to sell it to the country that we had won a major reform, and the EU was now going to cut it waste and become a better place. In reality, the British people were not happy. On 23rd June 2016, this was put to the test, and this was after a s**t campaign that was full of lies and deceit from both sides. We were given full facts from the remain side in a leaflet that cost the tax payer £9.3mil that spelt it out. We were told from the outset that we can expect Immediate recession (M Carney 12th May 2016), we were told by the COE that we could expect an emergency "Punishment Budget" immediately after if we were to vote leave, We were even told by Mr B Obhama that we would end up at the back of the Que on a trade deal with the USA. Despite all of this, the country went to a confirmatory first vote and decided in the majority that decided that it was in the best of the UK's interest to LEAVE THE EU. Now you can argue as much as you want, about the why's and wherefores, the lies and deceit by all sides, how stupid the people of the UK are, but if you are so blinded by vitriol and hatred of our system to see that by not leaving and carrying out democracy is going to be damaging beyond repair. A Second Referendum or Confirmatory vote is completely the wrong way to go, as you have to carry out democracy first. Not just keep on voting until you get what you want. Stop telling people who voted to leave that they had no idea, stop telling the people who voted to leave that they did not understand what they were doing. It was a simple binary choice, where we were told that we would leave, if that was want the country voted for. A deal would be nice, but it was not a necessity. Since then the Vocal Minority has been doing its level best to thwart the Peoples vote. You get tosspots who twist every word that is said, look at what Percy has put.... twisting to suit the agenda. You get people trying to remove the one chance of getting a good deal, which is the threat of No Deal removed from the agenda, I cannot think of any thing more stupid to do, as that says to the EU, do whatever you want, as we have no choice but to accept. So its not a Churchillian stance of Boris, its the strong leadership we have need for a long time, and long may it continue. This in a nut shell is why brexit will be an epic disaster for the U.K.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2019 19:50:16 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2019 7:46:54 GMT 1
One important one missing... 23/6/16 would be interesting to see prior to that....
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Post by Minormorris64 on Aug 16, 2019 12:16:46 GMT 1
When are people lie you going to realise that No Deal was hardly mentioned in the referendum (we could have a cake and eat it, remember?) and there is absolutely no mandate for it?
Strong leadership? It's kamikaze stuff from a Poundland politician who has only ever cared about himself. What is the problem with asking for a confirmatory vote on where we now are, which is a million miles away from what was promised? You can still vote to leave. You could easily argue the same about the "alleged" Irish backstop problem, I don't remember too much chat about that before the vote?
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Post by darkshrew on Aug 19, 2019 18:55:32 GMT 1
One important one missing... 23/6/16 would be interesting to see prior to that.... Not exactly the clear will of the people to make such a big change is it ?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 20:21:36 GMT 1
One important one missing... 23/6/16 would be interesting to see prior to that.... Not exactly the clear will of the people to make such a big change is it ? Yes it is...
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Post by darkshrew on Aug 20, 2019 5:55:53 GMT 1
Not exactly the clear will of the people to make such a big change is it ? Yes it is... How is oscillating around 50:50 a clear decision ?
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Post by salop27 on Aug 20, 2019 10:18:40 GMT 1
So yesterday the government sent a letter to the EU reminding them that the backstop part of the withdraw treaty is unacceptable and we will negotiate if they are open to changing it. So should not all the parties and mps be embracing that today as the only thing parliament has agreed on was to renegotiate the backstop before accepting a deal?
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Post by davycrockett on Aug 20, 2019 10:41:52 GMT 1
So yesterday the government sent a letter to the EU reminding them that the backstop part of the withdraw treaty is unacceptable and we will negotiate if they are open to changing it. So should not all the parties and mps be embracing that today as the only thing parliament has agreed on was to renegotiate the backstop before accepting a deal? Easy to send a letter BUT the EU won’t renegotiate or accept an open border with no guarantee in place to stop free movement between the EU and UK ie. a border....... done to death over the last 3 years
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Post by mattmw on Aug 20, 2019 14:43:19 GMT 1
So yesterday the government sent a letter to the EU reminding them that the backstop part of the withdraw treaty is unacceptable and we will negotiate if they are open to changing it. So should not all the parties and mps be embracing that today as the only thing parliament has agreed on was to renegotiate the backstop before accepting a deal? Whilst Parliament has voted against the Withdrawl agreement including the back stop, they haven’t come to a collective agreement on what the alternative back stop should be. The backstop was after all requested by us, not by the EU That for me the main task of the Johnson government to recall Parliament and get them to agree a post brexit position on The Irish boarder. Which in turn can then be taken back to the EU to discuss. The starting point has to be collective Parliamentary agreement on a policy
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2019 22:46:01 GMT 1
How is oscillating around 50:50 a clear decision ? 50.1 to 49.9 is enough.... that is the way the democratic system works...
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