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Post by frankwellshrews on Aug 12, 2015 19:36:42 GMT 1
Anyone else starting to think that the anti-Corbyn histrionics from within the party is all part of the plan? JC is definitely starting to take on some of that SNP, antidote to Westminster vibe and people like Blair weighing in only adds to it.
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Post by jamo on Aug 12, 2015 20:05:42 GMT 1
The more the undesirables come out and campaign against him the greater his lead becomes. It's kind of lovely.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2015 20:06:44 GMT 1
I see Alistair Campbell has piled in with his anti Corbyn views . Brilliant from a man who was instrumental in making sure we entered into an illegal war . If nothing else Corbyn will be the catalyst that changes the Labour Party for good and I for one can't wait until he gets selected . I would love it if the Tory voters plans to register as eligible to vote in the Labour Party leadership contest ,with a view to ensuring Corbyn gets selected, backfires on them and we end up with a true Labour leader who provides a credible opponent to their austerity measures . Watson and Corbyn may not be everyone's cup of tea but they will certainly make the sparks fly . PMQ 's will certainly be more interesting and we might even get more people really interested in politics . Corbyn for President , or is that a step too far .
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Post by jamo on Aug 12, 2015 20:55:41 GMT 1
I see Alistair Campbell has piled in with his anti Corbyn views . Brilliant from a man who was instrumental in making sure we entered into an illegal war . If nothing else Corbyn will be the catalyst that changes the Labour Party for good and I for one can't wait until he gets selected . I would love it if the Tory voters plans to register as eligible to vote in the Labour Party leadership contest ,with a view to ensuring Corbyn gets selected, backfires on them and we end up with a true Labour leader who provides a credible opponent to their austerity measures . Watson and Corbyn may not be everyone's cup of tea but they will certainly make the sparks fly . PMQ 's will certainly be more interesting and we might even get more people really interested in politics . Corbyn for President , or is that a step too far . Apart from the 'Corbyn for President' line I would agree entirely with this. I don't think he is electable as the countries leader but he sure as hell may be the catalyst The Labour Party needs right now. Forza Corbyn ...
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Post by Scarecrow on Aug 12, 2015 21:01:35 GMT 1
Thing is he'll win because he's the only one out of the candidates who has actually answered questions straightforwardly and shown himself to be different to the rest of them while the others have displayed nothing at all that inspires people to vote for them.
That said can a man who has frequently gone against the whips have any legitimacy in commanding members to vote for his programme in the commons? Or can he lead a party never having held either a cabinet briefing nor a shadow one and be seen as a future PM.
He will win but he can't seriously win an election but if you value ideological purity over being a serious government then he's your guy. Labour will lose even more seats with him in charge.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2015 21:03:54 GMT 1
All the great ideas and principles will mean nothing if we have a tory government for the next 20 years.
Having said that, I'm utterly torn because a part of me really wants him to get elected and clear out the Tony Blair wannabes.
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Post by Scarecrow on Aug 12, 2015 21:09:59 GMT 1
All the great ideas and principles will mean nothing if we have a tory government for the next 20 years. Having said that, I'm utterly torn because a part of me really wants him to get elected and clear out the Tony Blair wannabes. Back Burnham, at least he isn't a Tory like Kendall or have no opinions on anything like Cooper. Corbyn seems to have pulled him to the left- rail nationalisation, scrapping tuition fees etc.
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Post by jamo on Aug 12, 2015 21:22:39 GMT 1
All the great ideas and principles will mean nothing if we have a tory government for the next 20 years. Having said that, I'm utterly torn because a part of me really wants him to get elected and clear out the Tony Blair wannabes. Spot on comrade.
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Post by calimero on Aug 12, 2015 21:48:59 GMT 1
I like the idea I've heard mooted as him as an interim leader for, say, a couple of years. Time enough to implement the bottom-up policy making he talks about.
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Post by shrewsace on Aug 12, 2015 22:11:46 GMT 1
Another positive if Corbyn is elected leader is that some decent left wing ideas get mainstream exposure.
At the moment there's a virtual consensus that 'there is no alternative' to austerity and people are only being presented with a very narrow range of policies and opinions.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2015 22:46:21 GMT 1
Corbyn belongs to a Labour party ideal long since made unelectable.
Remember the only reason Blair was elected in 1997 was because he turned the party into New Labour which might as well have been named new tory.
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Post by TheFoz on Aug 12, 2015 23:24:45 GMT 1
I think Corbyn could get a lot of non-voters to vote Labour. Also get back voters from SNP,Green,Plaid and even UKIP. A lot of non voters think politicians are all the same but he proves that they aren't.
I really hope Corbyn wins but the right wing press will take their smear campaigns to another level.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Aug 12, 2015 23:56:58 GMT 1
I'm still doubtful he will win overall. And if he doesn't I am doubtful that the managerial elite in control of the party will take note of what has happened - other than to change the leadership election rules to ensure it doesn't happen again.
If he does then there will be hell up in the parliamentary party, whilst having strong support outside of the party.
I have to say that a number of Labour MPs need to take a good long look at themselves with their vicious attitude towards Corbyn and people who are coming out in support of him.
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Post by Mike Claridge on Aug 13, 2015 0:07:41 GMT 1
I shall be casting my UNITE (Not For Profit and Voluntary Section - Faith Workers Branch) vote for Jeremy as soon as I have my ballot paper. :-)
A viable 'party of the people' is possible. Too many people around here, who were traditional Labour voters, felt they needed to vote for UKIP in May because they felt Labour had lost touch with them.
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Post by sussexshrew on Aug 13, 2015 1:32:54 GMT 1
As one who, after shaking off the politics of my parents, has held mainly Socialist views for many years, I have been in a political vacuum, having vowed never to vote Labour again after Blair's lurch to the right and his embracing of George Bush's foreign policies, especially the Iraq war.
I detest Blair and his sofa cabinet... him, Campbell, Powell, Falkender and all the rest who fawned upon him.
Yes he won elections, but he did so against a poor Tory party, and lost some 6 million Party members in the process.
As it happens, I did vote Labour in the last election and was happy that Hove became a rare red dot amongst a sea of blue in the South. I did so because I did like Ed Milliband... as a man, even though I knew he wasn't gong to be a winner.
The brutal fact is that with the recent boundary changes and the total dominance of the SNP north of Hadrian's wall, no Labour leader will win an election outright.
However only one of the candidates can generate new support for them, and that is Corbyn.
Burnem, Kendall and Cooper have nothing about them. Jezz is filling meeting halls, bringing enthusiasm about politics to people, when for years they have been tarnished with lies, greed and corruption.. Blair is the most reviled ex Prime Minister ever, and as he struts around the world hoovering up more money and houses for his personal wealth, he seems totally unaware of how hated he is.
Blairites within the Labour Party and all those outside, especially the Press are getting scared. Even one of the few non-Tory newspapers, The Guardian, are having to back track and try and excuse their anti-Corbyn stance in the face of huge protests from readers, many who are letting them know, they are now ex-readers.
Women like Corbyn because he is honest, and despite the demonisation of his policies, actually like them. And very importantly, the next generation of voters like him. This surprises the spin doctors who think politicians have to be smooth-faced, young and trendy. But they are wrong. I work with young people and they hate the Eton boys trying to be one of them.
One girl likened the TV friendly, puppet-faced politicians as being like middle aged men who enter teen chat rooms pretending to be teens, but who are exposed when they start to speak about things they don't know about.
But Corbyn is like the schoolteacher who has been around forever.. with leather elbow patches on his tweed jacket... and who hastime for everybody. He is like a father or an uncle whom they trust. They like him. Just as they liked Vince Cable. They don't like Cameron, Osbourne, Clegg... or Burnham, Cooper and Kendall.
No Corbyn probably can't win an election outright... but he could do better than anybody else... and with a pact with the SNP... then who knows... and the Tory Press are running scared.
And as for being a political dinosaur, there are many people who hate some of the changes in our Brave New Britain. Why should the vital things of life... water, gas, electricity... make vast fortunes for Hedge Funds and other investors. When we turn on the tap or a light, many... in fact most, hate that we are adding to banker's obscene bonuses. New politics isn't always good politics.
And of course Corbyn has one trump card that he has given us a little glimpse of, hidden up his sleeve... the possibility of endicting Blair and his cohorts as War Criminals. Now that would make many vote for him.
No wonder Blair and his cronies are wetting their pants.
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Post by sussexshrew on Aug 13, 2015 1:38:39 GMT 1
And you are right Foz... the right wing press have barely sharpened their knives.. the real hate and vitriol will soon be unleashed.
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Post by percy on Aug 13, 2015 7:25:21 GMT 1
As an alternative interim to Harmon while we wait for someome credible - why not; we needed a Kinnock to see the need for a Blair.
As a leader who will heal rifts and delivers election results - not a chance.
I really do get frustrated with those who cite Blair losing the party millions of members and being "endicted as a war criminal" - he was the best thing that happened to the party and did a lot of economic and social good during the period in power. We are playing into Tory hands by this constant reference to his shortcomings - if we dismiss his government as a failure then there are few of the electorate left with a real living memory of a credible labour party in power.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2015 7:52:31 GMT 1
How are people defining credible?
Credible from the frame of reference of the press and the Blairite faction?
Or the millions of voters who may support his Social Democratic stance?
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Post by percy on Aug 13, 2015 8:04:35 GMT 1
How are people defining credible? Credible from the frame of reference of the press and the Blairite faction? Or the millions of voters who may support his Social Democratic stance? To be contraversial I'd go with being credible to voters as being the most important. As a life long labour supporter I can tell you that I'd rather not vote than vote for Corbyn to be installed at number 10.
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Post by MartinB on Aug 13, 2015 11:10:44 GMT 1
Blair is the most reviled ex Prime Minister ever, and as he struts around the world hoovering up more money and houses for his personal wealth, he seems totally unaware of how hated he is. Don't think first line I have quoted above is correct
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2015 12:33:46 GMT 1
Blair is the most reviled ex Prime Minister ever, and as he struts around the world hoovering up more money and houses for his personal wealth, he seems totally unaware of how hated he is.]s. Whatever the merits of the rest of your post, this nugget is quite clearly absurd.
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Post by MartinB on Aug 13, 2015 12:35:08 GMT 1
This is getting worrying Matron the number of times we are agreeing on things
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Post by percy on Aug 13, 2015 12:42:48 GMT 1
Blair is the most reviled ex Prime Minister ever, and as he struts around the world hoovering up more money and houses for his personal wealth, he seems totally unaware of how hated he is.]s. Whatever the merits of the rest of your post, this nugget is quite clearly absurd. Personally I wouldn't give credence to the rest of the post either.
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Post by QuorndonShrew on Aug 13, 2015 13:24:10 GMT 1
I just had to double check the browser I was using, thought I'd stumbled across the Socialist Worker forum by accident This chap has more baggage than Louis Vuitton, can't wait to see him soar to victory in the polls. £3 well spent if you ask me
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Post by SeanBroseley on Aug 13, 2015 19:57:23 GMT 1
I still think there is a reasonable chance that this election will not go ahead. It still seems unlikely to me that the managerialists in the Labour Party will allow control to slip away just because Corbyn's skill at harnessing grassroots momentum and his ability to articulate a message of hope with clarity and conviction.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2015 20:13:02 GMT 1
That would split the party surely. If Corbyn wins, which he won't, they would make his position untenable anyway, thus forcing another election.
Meanwhile the government gets away with all sorts.
I'm not sure who I dislike the most these days, Labour or the Tories.
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Post by jamo on Aug 13, 2015 20:17:28 GMT 1
I still think there is a reasonable chance that this election will not go ahead. It still seems unlikely to me that the managerialists in the Labour Party will allow control to slip away just because Corbyn's skill at harnessing grassroots momentum and his ability to articulate a message of hope with clarity and conviction. I can understand the logic of your point, I am sure the current leadership would do anything to stop the contest right now but what mechanism exists to allow them to do so ? The only way I can see them having any success in such an approach would if they could prove foul play in someway, which in itself could prove massively counter productive eventually
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Post by shrewsace on Aug 13, 2015 20:25:07 GMT 1
How are people defining credible? Credible from the frame of reference of the press and the Blairite faction? Or the millions of voters who may support his Social Democratic stance? Credible like George Osborne, of course. The problem with Labour is they're addicted to borrowing - so George proved how credible he is by borrowing more than every Labour government in history put together, then slagging off Labour for being 'addicted to debt'. Then of course he had that plan to protect our AAA rating, then lost it and said it didn't matter, it just proved how serious things were and how awful it would be if Labour were allowed back in. But at least he delivered on his central pledge of eliminating the deficit within five years which proved he had a 'strong, long-term economic plan' ...no, come to think of it he failed at that too! Lesson being it's easy to be 'credible' when the media lets you move the goalposts around without saying a dickie bird because they support your bulls**t!
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Post by SeanBroseley on Aug 13, 2015 20:26:30 GMT 1
I think if enough people at the top think they can do it they will - rules not withstanding. Suspending the process because, "the infrastructure of the party has been overwhelmed by the volume of applications" or "a pause to ensure the integrity of the process" or some such.
And they would do this without any conscience I am convinced of that not just by the utterances that are getting the attention in the media but also reading the twitter posts of Liz Kendall and another MP John Woodcock.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2015 20:30:55 GMT 1
I wouldn't put it past them, but that would be the end of the Labour Party for far longer than if Corbyn won.
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