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Post by sussexshrew on Aug 1, 2015 2:38:22 GMT 1
Despite differences of opinion on this board, at least there is a level of sanity, unlike the crazed hysteria on the Daily Mail website.
Apparently if UKIP were in power or we sent in the Army with a shoot to kill mandate, the problem would be solved.
The fact that if we were not in the EU, any level of co-operation with the French would almost be non existent, and any Army Officer or politician who ordered the Army to kill unarmed civilians would be behind bars for the rest of their lives for murder, is completely lost on them. As is the fact that Nigel Farage is not advocating such murder... any suggestion of which gains around 80 thumbs up and 2 down.
In an ideal world, we would deport the thousands of Daily Mail comment writers to a deserted island and process and allow the asylum seekers in, subject to the controls we have.
At least that would raise the country's IQ considerably.
However immigration is a problem, as the fact that the most popular baby boy's name in 2015 is Mohammed shows, and all I hear is Polish in my local Tesco Express. I do have my own solution... but it may be too radical for even the Daily Mail, yet alone Blue and Amber!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 7:01:30 GMT 1
Literally half the staff on my ward are foreign (Philippines, Poland, Irish, Spanish) They are an amazing bunch. Hard working and dedicated. Immigration isn't a problem. Criminality is a problem.
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Post by northwestman on Aug 1, 2015 7:52:55 GMT 1
Some haulage companies are abandoning Calais and sending their lorries to other ports via the ferries.
We were able to operate adequately when there was no Channel Tunnel.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2015 12:44:11 GMT 1
There are many different levels of complexity in this story. Admiring the courage and determination of people who are prepared to take risks for a supposed better life is just one level. A human level if you like. Anyone with an ounce of self awareness would realise this. Or not. They are risking their own lives and those of british citizens, at Calais as well as having a financial impact on hauliers and at the cost of the British tax payer in their quest to cross the border of one safe country into another!
That is not acceptable and certainly not to be admired!
Yeah because they just turned up in Calais as if by magic.
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Millwall FC
Shropshire County League
Eating babies since 1885
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Post by Millwall FC on Aug 2, 2015 8:44:13 GMT 1
Very easy to wring your hands and say "I don't accept borders" or admire the tenacity of the Calais migrants, when you live in a sleepy backwater like Salop. How many of these migrants will end up in Shrewsbury?
Come and spend a few days in London, not tourist Big Ben, Trafalgar Square London, but inner city London where we live. See how multiculturalism has enhanced our way of living - not. See how kids struggle to get a school place, because of oversubscribing and when they do they find that they are held back because 75% of the other kids don't speak English. See how the "local" African community love to intimidate old people on the bus, constantly spit on the floor and yes this will sound racist (but its true) how they forget to wash every morning - lovely aroma, especially when sitting next to another 30 Africans on the public transport in summer. See how the wonderful Roma gypsies harrass you as you walk the streets, leaving a trail of mess behind them as they set up a picnic on the 7/7 memorial site. See how the Muslim gangs threaten and beat up other non muslim locals (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-33687853 ) strange how it isn't treated as a hate crime - imagine it the other way round, but you don't have to, as this sort of thing never happens in sleepy Salop.
London is fast becoming a thirld world slum and you really havent got a clue how bad it is until you have to live it day in day out. Cameron was dead right, they are a swarm
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2015 9:04:38 GMT 1
Thanks for being so condescending.
You'll find that a lot of posters on here are exiles, or have lived in the 'smoke' (like me) and have experienced 'multiculturalism' both the positives and negatives.
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Shrewsfan1985
The Loggerheads
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My first team is..: Shrewsbury
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Post by Shrewsfan1985 on Aug 3, 2015 1:55:34 GMT 1
In my opinion i think that it is disgraceful what the 1500 migrants are doing to the channel tunnel.
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Post by neilsalop on Aug 3, 2015 9:23:48 GMT 1
I still struggle to understand why they just don't claim asylum in France (or elsewhere in mainland Europe), gain citizenship there and then come here to work as European citizens. There's a Ghanaian guy where I work who has Dutch citizenship. Not sure when he arrived in Europe, must be a fair while ago he's been at my place for 6 or 7 years, but it shows that it can be done.
It does seem strange however that so many are prepared to get from Greece and Italy all the way to Calais in the hope of getting to the UK. Would an option be for the EU to offer a temporary EU citizenship to asylum seekers that would enable them to move with a measure of (not complete) freedom within the EU for a set time or even allocate them to any one of the 28 member states? I mean how many are heading to Slovakia, Poland, Bulgaria or Cyprus compared to those going to Germany, France, Italy or the UK? Is it time for these newer EU states to up their intake?
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Post by QuorndonShrew on Aug 3, 2015 12:01:27 GMT 1
Standing by and 'admiring their courage and determination' is part of the reason many of these people lose their lives trying to get to mainland Europe or the UK. Our limp wristed attitude to immigration only offers incentives for people to risk life and limb coming to UK on the off chance the authorities take pity on them and they'll be granted asylum . Unfortunately it's one of those instances where you have to be firm to be fair. Saw a story on the news yesterday about a Sikh Afghan father who suffocated in the back of a truck surrounded by his family trying to get to the UK. These are the people that should be granted asylum in this country. As much as I don't subscribe to the leftist 'we owe it to them because of what happened 400 years ago' surely we have a duty to look after genuine refugees of war and offer support to those who given the opportunity will repay their gratitude and fit in to our society. Not the Pakistanis and North Africans who make up the bulk of immigration applications and show little interest in adapting to our way of life. It makes you wonder why the wealthy gulf states aren't quite as accommodating to their Muslim brothers. There are many different levels of complexity in this story. Admiring the courage and determination of people who are prepared to take risks for a supposed better life is just one level. A human level if you like. Anyone with an ounce of self awareness would realise this. Or not. I suppose you admire the risks of the very wealthy using off shore bank accounts and exploiting tax loopholes for a better life then do you? Nothing to admire about gun toting and knife waving criminals putting themselves and others at risk by illegally trying to enter the country.
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Post by kuffdam72 on Aug 3, 2015 12:12:04 GMT 1
I still struggle to understand why they just don't claim asylum in France (or elsewhere in mainland Europe), gain citizenship there and then come here to work as European citizens. There's a Ghanaian guy where I work who has Dutch citizenship. Not sure when he arrived in Europe, must be a fair while ago he's been at my place for 6 or 7 years, but it shows that it can be done. It does seem strange however that so many are prepared to get from Greece and Italy all the way to Calais in the hope of getting to the UK. Would an option be for the EU to offer a temporary EU citizenship to asylum seekers that would enable them to move with a measure of (not complete) freedom within the EU for a set time or even allocate them to any one of the 28 member states? I mean how many are heading to Slovakia, Poland, Bulgaria or Cyprus compared to those going to Germany, France, Italy or the UK? Is it time for these newer EU states to up their intake? Should be plenty of room in Poland and Bulgaria, their all over here.
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Post by QuorndonShrew on Aug 3, 2015 12:14:26 GMT 1
Very easy to wring your hands and say "I don't accept borders" or admire the tenacity of the Calais migrants, when you live in a sleepy backwater like Salop. How many of these migrants will end up in Shrewsbury? This point often amuses me. As an exile living in Leicester, which in many respects is the blueprint for how multiculturalism can work, it does make you wonder how many of the pro-immigration brigade in green and pleasant Shropshire would offer their jobs or be happy extending the land on their housing estate to an influx of immigrants in their area.
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Post by Uncle_Monkey on Aug 3, 2015 12:29:34 GMT 1
Very easy to wring your hands and say "I don't accept borders" or admire the tenacity of the Calais migrants, when you live in a sleepy backwater like Salop. How many of these migrants will end up in Shrewsbury? This point often amuses me. As an exile living in Leicester, which in many respects is the blueprint for how multiculturalism can work, it does make you wonder how many of the pro-immigration brigade in green and pleasant Shropshire would offer their jobs or be happy extending the land on their housing estate to an influx of immigrants in their area. Sez the economic migrant...
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Post by venceremos on Aug 3, 2015 12:42:22 GMT 1
Asylum seekers are a tiny proportion of migrants. According to the House of Commons Library, there were fewer than 30,000 (including dependants) in 2013, out of a total of 526,000 immigrants. It's not really about "safe" countries and claiming asylum, it's people migrating to other countries for a better life. That's something that's happened throughout history and that will always happen and every developed economy has been built on it.
I'm not downplaying the problems of integration and Millwall FC is right that it affects London far more than here. He's also right that his comments do sound racist. And nicko's also right that it's condescending to assume nobody on here has any first hand experience.
Nobody's saying it isn't difficult. People are people and there's good and bad in all communities. That's not a reason to keep them apart. Could we expect our economy to grow with an ageing population and no immigration? Not a chance. But it's not an all or nothing argument and the inflow needs to be managed.
It's worth noting that the UK is 11th out of the 28 EU countries in the percentage of its population that are foreign nationals - and London's position as a financial centre means that we're likely to have a higher proportion of "professionals" in that category than most. Latvia and Estonia are 3rd & 4th, Sweden, Denmark and France are 13th, 14th & 15th - maybe some of the older EU states could up their intake.
Is it right to dehumanise people with language like "swarm"? Maybe you think it is but never for me - whether we let in no migrants or a million migrants, they're all people, never a swarm. That's the sort of language that was used to demonise Jews in the 1930s. Cameron was either ignorant when he used that phrase or else he really is on the nasty side of politics.
People will move, even if we were stupid enough to have a zero immigration policy. Ramping up the hysteria and animosity levels only makes things worse.
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Post by venceremos on Aug 3, 2015 12:45:50 GMT 1
Very easy to wring your hands and say "I don't accept borders" or admire the tenacity of the Calais migrants, when you live in a sleepy backwater like Salop. How many of these migrants will end up in Shrewsbury? This point often amuses me. As an exile living in Leicester, which in many respects is the blueprint for how multiculturalism can work, it does make you wonder how many of the pro-immigration brigade in green and pleasant Shropshire would offer their jobs or be happy extending the land on their housing estate to an influx of immigrants in their area. This point always amuses me. LSF waving the immigration frontline flag again and using the language ("pro-immigration brigade") of a retired colonel from the Home Counties.
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Post by frankwellshrews on Aug 3, 2015 12:59:38 GMT 1
Very easy to wring your hands and say "I don't accept borders" or admire the tenacity of the Calais migrants, when you live in a sleepy backwater like Salop. How many of these migrants will end up in Shrewsbury? This point often amuses me. As an exile living in Leicester, which in many respects is the blueprint for how multiculturalism can work, it does make you wonder how many of the pro-immigration brigade in green and pleasant Shropshire would offer their jobs or be happy extending the land on their housing estate to an influx of immigrants in their area. To be honest I'm not so sure that the "sleepy Shropshire" cliché applies so much these days. A walk around Wellington town centre or up to the Regent Street and Victoria Avenue areas of the town will quickly dispell the notion that Shropshire has no visible immigrant communities. The factory and agricultural industries here are also not immune from the effects of globalization. Just have a listen to the range of languages on display during a shift at the creamery in Minsterly (or buy a drink in a hotel bar for that matter). One of my family has been a childminder in Shrewsbury for many years. These days, around half the children she looks after are from abroad (generally from Sudanese families, many of whom live in the area as it's close to work at the hospital). My wife's shop in town centre has several customers from abroad who live locally. My next door neighbour teaches English to Bulgarians working on agricultural projects in Oswestry. The list goes on. Shropshire is no longer the 'sleepy backwater' of yesteryear (though if your only experience of it is visiting on match day and looking from afar it probably looks that way) and it's far from the only 'leafy green suburb' that's seeing similar changes. Just take a walk from Eign Gate to the end of Eign Street near Hereford's Edgar Street stadium to see the highly visible Portuguese and Eastern European communities there, or have a wander around Gloucester or Peterborough city centres. just to clarify, I'm not claiming the impact is as visible as London but it's not as negligible as some would like to believe either. As for school places, try the other end of the spectrum where we're losing schools in rural Shropshire due to lack of numbers. And jobs? Don't try whinging to people from Shropshire about the jobs market as if we're all driving round in Lamborghinis on our stock broker salaries.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 13:05:31 GMT 1
I'm not going to London. It sounds SO scary!
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Post by neilsalop on Aug 3, 2015 13:49:02 GMT 1
I'm not going to London. It sounds SO scary! Have you seen the price of a bottle bud in the city pubs? I paid £4.40 last month Now that is bloody scary.
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Post by mattmw on Aug 3, 2015 14:02:21 GMT 1
Think Shropshire's immigration is primarily economically driven, particularly in the agricultural areas where east European workers and north Asia workers have been an established part of the community for some time, and integrate pretty well
London clearly has very different issues, but does tend to suffer from the age old problem of immigrants (be those legal or illegal) often ending up in the poorer areas of cities when they arrive in the UK. Tower Hamlets without immigration issues has massive economic and social issues already, and adding whole new immigrant communities into that mix is an issue, and one that successive governments haven't dealt with
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 14:45:05 GMT 1
- lovely aroma, especially when sitting next to another 30 Africans on the public transport in summer. You've never toured the leafy lanes of Shropshire on a country bus then Millwall lad. Wonderful experience particularly when the farming community have been muck spreading on the fields . Tell you what, I bet you'd swap the lovely aroma of s**te of every description for the aroma of 30 Africans on London public transport.
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Post by QuorndonShrew on Aug 3, 2015 17:09:14 GMT 1
This point often amuses me. As an exile living in Leicester, which in many respects is the blueprint for how multiculturalism can work, it does make you wonder how many of the pro-immigration brigade in green and pleasant Shropshire would offer their jobs or be happy extending the land on their housing estate to an influx of immigrants in their area. This point always amuses me. LSF waving the immigration frontline flag again and using the language ("pro-immigration brigade") of a retired colonel from the Home Counties. Just to clarify my point I'm not anti-immigration. But some of the pro-immigration lot - or brigade rather - seem to have visions of immigrants running through border checkpoints with the same sort of romanticism as Chariots of Fire.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 18:12:14 GMT 1
There are many different levels of complexity in this story. Admiring the courage and determination of people who are prepared to take risks for a supposed better life is just one level. A human level if you like. Anyone with an ounce of self awareness would realise this. Or not. I suppose you admire the risks of the very wealthy using off shore bank accounts and exploiting tax loopholes for a better life then do you? Nothing to admire about gun toting and knife waving criminals putting themselves and others at risk by illegally trying to enter the country. I can't work out if you're playing devils advocate, or just being thick.
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Post by QuorndonShrew on Aug 3, 2015 18:28:52 GMT 1
I suppose you admire the risks of the very wealthy using off shore bank accounts and exploiting tax loopholes for a better life then do you? Nothing to admire about gun toting and knife waving criminals putting themselves and others at risk by illegally trying to enter the country. I can't work out if you're playing devils advocate, or just being thick. I'm trying to make it clearer for you to understand. Taking the human interest sob stories out of it, attempting to enter any country illegally is a crime.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 19:11:49 GMT 1
I can't work out if you're playing devils advocate, or just being thick. I'm trying to make it clearer for you to understand. Taking the human interest sob stories out of it, attempting to enter any country illegally is a crime. But that has nothing to do with off shore bank accounts and gun wielding migrants illegal or otherwise. Nor has it to with sob stories. Just sit down and think about what it might take to leave your homeland, for whatever reason, and put your life in the hands of a trafficker for example. Is that simple enough for you?
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Post by Catalyst Cartel on Aug 3, 2015 21:42:10 GMT 1
My idea if they want to come to Britain is round em up, stick em on a boat and send them to the uninhabited part of the Falkland Islands. Im sure Argentina would love that.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Aug 4, 2015 7:36:32 GMT 1
Good article the other day on what our attitudes would be if hundreds of thousands of Jews started pouring out of Germany and trying to get here...
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Aug 4, 2015 7:43:02 GMT 1
Crying about migrants in Calais is a bit like trying to arrest a teenager having a cheeky smoke in a bus shelter.
I think it's the criminal networks behind the whole thing that are the actual problem.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2015 8:07:37 GMT 1
Good article the other day on what our attitudes would be if hundreds of thousands of Jews started pouring out of Germany and trying to get here... At least it would give the poor Palestinians a break!
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Post by ambergambler on Aug 4, 2015 8:22:53 GMT 1
Why most of our military are stood down at the mo, surely they could control the problem??
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Aug 4, 2015 10:13:37 GMT 1
By taking on Islamic state in Syria?
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