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Post by Bilbo on Jan 5, 2012 13:00:29 GMT 1
Ban her from the Commons for 8 weeks and fine her half a weeks wages
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Post by Pilch on Jan 5, 2012 13:03:51 GMT 1
i dont know what she said but she should be sacked immediately, i just love jumping on a bandwagon
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Post by simpsonsghost on Jan 5, 2012 13:04:42 GMT 1
Best Friend of Michael Portillo.............................I bet the hours when just the two of them are sat together just fly by being politically correct to each other
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Post by dachshund on Jan 5, 2012 13:06:35 GMT 1
Being politically correct is fundamentally a good thing, not something to be sneered at
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Post by simpsonsghost on Jan 5, 2012 13:10:20 GMT 1
They are only politically correct on camera
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2012 13:28:52 GMT 1
In reality its something that is blown out of proportion and its a sad state of affairs when someone loses their job for some throwaway comments
But I agree with Crippen that purely for consistency Id expect plenty of calls for her resignation as it would be if a white MP made sweeping comments about the black or asian community. Following on from the recent racist thread and whether its seen as trendy to be anti racist or not, well for a white person to criticise a black person, particularly when it comes to the racist debate, well I dont expect many takers.
Incidentally, I find it very ironic that the whole story is based on criticisim of whites using the term "black community", Ive lost count of the amount of times Ive seen footage/comments from black people talking about the black community (and similar things from the asian community). I didnt know that the term black community was now considered offensive
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2012 13:45:57 GMT 1
dont like the woman and never have, went from being an outspoken militant to a cosey friend of new labour when it suited her. can be sacked as far as im concerned, not much use to man nor beast. couple of points though. Doc, wouldnt sacking her reinforce the kind of "anti" anti racism you dislike so much? Isnt the fact that this is being featured by the BBC evidence perhaps that racism "isnt" considered a one way thing by the majority, and maybe its only a perseption? But other than that i agree, for consistency she should go.
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Post by El Presidente on Jan 5, 2012 14:46:05 GMT 1
I don't find these comments particualrly offensive to be fair. If read in the context she intended, you can see she was (allegedly) refering to colonialist methods of controling the local populations. Were we living in a predominantly black society, and we had suffered years of repression for being white, I probably would find this more upsetting. But right now, whilst I agree her comments ill-thought out, especially from such a public figure, I don't agree with hanging her out to dry. As one Tory MP put it, let her constituents decide.
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Post by Jonah on Jan 5, 2012 15:06:20 GMT 1
Awful woman. I find it very difficult to even listen to her boring tones never mind the constant ' black community' this etc.
She should be above these kind of comments.
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Post by venceremos on Jan 5, 2012 15:22:13 GMT 1
Best comment on this I've read is via a Twitter blog post (33revolutionsperminute), so I'm just gonna cut & paste the opening:
"I can imagine a world in which Diane Abbott’s tweet that “White people love playing ‘divide and rule’ We should not play their game #tacticasoldascolonialism” would be racist. In this parallel universe Britain is dominated, politically and economically, by an unshakeable clique of black, working-class women and two black men have just been convicted, several years too late thanks to an institutionally racist black police force, of the murder of white teenager Stephen Lawrence. But in this world? Not really.
I don’t want to get into the ridiculous mob mechanics of Twitter outrage, which can be as bad on the left (witness pandagate) as it is on the right, except to note that the “gotcha” strategy is a surefire way to ensure that no politician ever expresses themselves on social media except in the bloodlessly inoffensive style of Ed Milibot’s feed. It seems we desperately want politicians to drop the platitudes and speak openly, except when they do, in which case they need to apologise and resign.
What this absurd flap demonstrates is the desperate longing of some privileged people to wear the rags of victimhood. Any whiff of black-on-white racism, like misandry and heterophobia, is an excuse for these delicate souls to downplay the dominant prejudice and argue that there is a level playing field of bigotry or, on the crazier fringes, that there is a “war” on white people/men/straight people/motorists, etc. Coming so soon after the Lawrence verdict, Abbottgate is a nasty attempt to pretend that, hey, there’s racism on both sides now. A black man gets knifed to death by a white mob; a black MP writes a carelessly worded tweet about white people. It all evens out."
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Post by africanshrew on Jan 5, 2012 18:07:06 GMT 1
Diane Abbott's comments are daft and unhelpful in my view. Her comments about it being hard to make your point in 140 characters is also stupid, don't use twitter if you want to give a soundbite. On the other hand I don't quite know why the good Dr sees this as a great victory and another excuse to roll out the same tired old anti-liberal remarks (whatever you mean by 'liberal'). And for someone who is forever moaning about race and political correctness being mentioned all the time you never miss the chance to obsess about...race and political correctness. A closet liberal perhaps?
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Post by shrewsTRUST on Jan 5, 2012 18:20:33 GMT 1
Thanks for the (pasted) rhetoric, Venceremos. Exactly the kind of attitude I would have expected. Ultimately, if the word 'whites' was replaced with 'blacks' we would have a major political incident on our hands with the willy-waving liberals clamoring to take offence on behalf of the 'repressed' black community. Racism is racism regardless of the victim or the status of the perpetrator. I sincerely that someone presses official charges against Mrs. Abbott and her prosecution is handled in the same way as the likes of John Terry. Doing so would mean true consistency and would help counteract the 'if it's aimed at the " dominant" whites, ignore it' attitude purveyed by the pretentious, one-sided liberals. you accuse people of rhetoric and then use the phrase "willy waving liberals" and to be fair, we do have a political incident over this, so i figure you are happy that this is consistant, its just that i suppose the willy wavers are a bit more right wing this time can you name a willy waving liberal and explain the idea of them properly? your view also interests me as i dont think you are being entirely honest when you say that racism is racism regardless of who it is against. If you felt that that were the case, you would be making similar comments on the stephen lawrence thread or the other race threads, instead of your usual, white people suffer racism too schtick. Given the history of slavery and overt white on black racism for generations i would say that black on white racism is a far more sensitive and important issue in this country than black on white which is far less prevelent (but should be taken as seriously when detected).
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Jan 5, 2012 18:21:29 GMT 1
I think Crippen's just using his right as a white person to be offended by this, fair enough I say
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Post by venceremos on Jan 5, 2012 18:26:12 GMT 1
Exactly the kind of attitude I would have expected. Ditto. I did say it was pasted. It's still the best summary I've seen, so why rehash the same points? The full piece is worth reading.
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Post by venceremos on Jan 5, 2012 18:29:30 GMT 1
For those on Twitter, you might enjoy some of the tweets on #whitepeopleblues.
Those of an angry disposition should avoid.
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Post by shrewsTRUST on Jan 5, 2012 18:55:56 GMT 1
we do have a political incident over this, so i figure you are happy that this is consistant It’s not consistent though – the press coverage is actually quite tame and you would never have a senior politician saying ‘leave it to the constituents to decide’ were this about anti-black comments. You also have the paradox of the very same posters that have previously condemned racism not seeming to care one jot when the prejudice is sent in the opposite direction. How very strange – it would appear that (because of ‘political dominance’ and the previous evils of imperialism) that black-to-white racism is no longer deemed important. You shouldn’t doubt me – I genuinely believe that racism is racism and that, if people were genuinely appalled by its use, the status of the victim should be an irrelevance. I was also not offended by Mrs. Abbott’s comments, I just wanted the same people that have previously (and pretentiously) kicked-up a fuss regarding anti-black comments to do the same again. Just for the record, I think that abbott is an idiot and always has been, her comments though are an irrelevance as i think she doesnt in any way represent "the black community". I can understand your desire for fairness, in an ideal world one type of racism would be as bad as any other. Although if it was an ideal world, i figure there wouldnt be any hatred of anyone. But you have to see that the context of those 100s of years of oppression and history generally, makes people worry about the far right and the real evil descriminaTION (oops) coming back.
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Post by shrewsace on Jan 5, 2012 20:10:45 GMT 1
Stupid and ironically divise comments from Abbott. I agree with Matron's comments, she's a hypocrite. Her posturing as a leftie while sending her son to a private school says a lot about her opportunistic brand of politics. And she's mates with Portillo
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Post by Pilch on Jan 5, 2012 20:15:11 GMT 1
Thanks for the (pasted) rhetoric, Venceremos. Exactly the kind of attitude I would have expected. Ultimately, if the word 'whites' was replaced with 'blacks' we would have a major political incident on our hands with the willy-waving liberals clamoring to take offence on behalf of the 'repressed' black community. Racism is racism regardless of the victim or the status of the perpetrator. I sincerely that someone presses official charges against Mrs. Abbott and her prosecution is handled in the same way as the likes of John Terry. Doing so would mean true consistency and would help counteract the 'if it's aimed at the " dominant" whites, ignore it' attitude purveyed by the pretentious, one-sided liberals. i wonder what abbot would have said had it been like you said but coming from the mouth of nick griffin
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2012 20:27:50 GMT 1
What utter bulls**t that twitter post that venceremos quotes is.
Doesn't matter if she tweeted it, wrote it in a column, was filmed/recorded saying it, or whatever. The comment "'White people love playing 'divide & rule'" is hugely offensive and totally idiotic. She should be sacked immediately from her shadow ministerial position.
And that's coming from someone who holds the same views on political correctness as Dachshund (I think!).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2012 20:40:00 GMT 1
Agree with Crippen on this one, as he says, "racism is racism...regardless." And lets not go back in history to provide reasons why racism exists today, slavery and all that bollox. I think if you dig deep enough you will find that slavery was practised way before the British Empire raised its imperial head. A nember of parliament making such baseless comments,especially at this time, shows that she is way out of her depth and needs replacing. As usual the Doctor makes points, hard and fast but at least truthfully, while others sit on the fence. Oh, you can't say that, well, he can, and he has. Live with it.
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Post by Mike on Jan 5, 2012 20:50:12 GMT 1
"Just for the record, I think that abbott is an idiot and always has been, her comments though are an irrelevance as i think she doesnt in any way represent "the black community"
She's a black MP. Struggle to think of anyone whose views represent the black community more...
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Post by mattmw on Jan 5, 2012 21:11:53 GMT 1
Here's an alternative view on the conversation from the columnist Abbott was having a tweet with. Complete with the typical Guardian correction at the end! [Article link]http://m.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/jan/05/diane-abbott-twitter-row-racism?cat=politics&type=article[/url] Think with twitter there is a danger of reading too much into an isolated comment, as you often don't know the context in which the comment was made and what "style" of writing people have as happened with Robinson's "revenge" comment last year. For me I'd put this one more into the unwise use of language box rather than racist language, perhaps in a similar way to Alan Hanson's "coloured players" comment a few weeks ago. Divide and Rule has been used by ruling elites in the past (mainly white elites) so is kind of relevant to the conversation Abbot was having, but any idea it's enjoyed by the majority of white people today is rather nonsensical
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Post by shrewsace on Jan 5, 2012 21:14:12 GMT 1
Best comment on this I've read is via a Twitter blog post (33revolutionsperminute), so I'm just gonna cut & paste the opening: "I can imagine a world in which Diane Abbott’s tweet that “White people love playing ‘divide and rule’ We should not play their game #tacticasoldascolonialism” would be racist. In this parallel universe Britain is dominated, politically and economically, by an unshakeable clique of black, working-class women and two black men have just been convicted, several years too late thanks to an institutionally racist black police force, of the murder of white teenager Stephen Lawrence. But in this world? Not really. I don’t want to get into the ridiculous mob mechanics of Twitter outrage, which can be as bad on the left (witness pandagate) as it is on the right, except to note that the “gotcha” strategy is a surefire way to ensure that no politician ever expresses themselves on social media except in the bloodlessly inoffensive style of Ed Milibot’s feed. It seems we desperately want politicians to drop the platitudes and speak openly, except when they do, in which case they need to apologise and resign. What this absurd flap demonstrates is the desperate longing of some privileged people to wear the rags of victimhood. Any whiff of black-on-white racism, like misandry and heterophobia, is an excuse for these delicate souls to downplay the dominant prejudice and argue that there is a level playing field of bigotry or, on the crazier fringes, that there is a “war” on white people/men/straight people/motorists, etc. Coming so soon after the Lawrence verdict, Abbottgate is a nasty attempt to pretend that, hey, there’s racism on both sides now. A black man gets knifed to death by a white mob; a black MP writes a carelessly worded tweet about white people. It all evens out." A bit of a disingenuous comparisson at the end there. He/She can't just pick these two incidents and claim they epitiomise race relations in this country.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2012 21:16:12 GMT 1
Bin Adewunmi; " i wish everyone would stop saying the black community, which one?
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Post by El Presidente on Jan 5, 2012 21:26:36 GMT 1
Now look, I've done my fair share of willy waving in the past but I seriously draw the line at being labelled a liberal... I'm still not overly excited by Abbot's comments though. Positive discrimination, now thats something I do get excited about.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jan 5, 2012 21:31:11 GMT 1
That twitter post is a load of b******s. Racism is racism, whatever guise. And each case should be looked at independently...
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Post by Mike on Jan 5, 2012 21:41:07 GMT 1
I'm still not overly excited by Abbot's comments though. And therein lies my point. Had the comments been made towards the black population, you (and the likes of AfricanShrew) would have been frothing at the mouth and condemning the use of racist language as unacceptable. Why the change in approach? Because black on white racism doesn't matter silly Afterall we need to be punished for our centuries of Imperialism. Not even allowed to say most of those rioters in the summer were black.
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Post by El Presidente on Jan 5, 2012 21:41:53 GMT 1
I'm still not overly excited by Abbot's comments though. And therein lies my point. Had the comments been made towards the black population, you (and the likes of AfricanShrew) would have been frothing at the mouth and condemning the use of racist language as unacceptable. Why the change in approach? Colourful rhetoric there good Dr. Not sure when I have ever been as hysterical as you describe, but you're living up to your own comments as this thread progresses. Can you not accept that I have a different point of view to you? Her comments are ill thought out as I have said. I would be more excited if she used more degenerative language. As it stands, I'm still not very excited about it all.
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Post by mattmw on Jan 5, 2012 21:42:21 GMT 1
For me I'd put this one more into the unwise use of language box rather than racist language, perhaps in a similar way to Alan Hanson's I have studied Britain's use of 'divide and rule' (with regard to the Indian population) and can confirm that it was a very real - and ultimately successful - tactic. Unfortunately, Abbott did NOT refer to such a ploy in the past-tense and thus her conduct should not be regarded as a historical discussion, but an act of venomous racism. In the specific tweet she didn't refer to it in the past tense, but the person she was having the conversation with had previously been talking about how the black community had been treated as one entity in the past, and this was how I interpreted the "white people like to divide and rule" comment - however others may well view it differently. Bim adewunmi has previously written on the subject in The Guardian. The way things are now I'm sure someone will report the comment to the police and their investigations will show in more light than we can guess at, what the real basis of her comment was. All in all I'm not sure having prisons full of Diane Abbots and John Terry's is a particularly helpful situation. There does seem to be an air McCarthism in the air at the moment
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2012 21:51:51 GMT 1
McCarthism in the air at the moment. just be grateful we don't get bogged down with Leninism.
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