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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2011 16:23:39 GMT 1
Apologies Ed, I must admit that I had put you in the bracket of fans who said that Turner was not an improvement on Simpson because neither delivered promotion, and even though we had our best points total for some time, it was still a failure.
I stand corrected though
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Post by Shrewed on Oct 11, 2011 16:32:18 GMT 1
Apologies Ed, I must admit that I had put you in the bracket of fans who said that Turner was not an improvement on Simpson because neither delivered promotion, and even though we had our best points total for some time, it was still a failure. I stand corrected though Paul if we ever get round to posting on the worst Town managers Simpson will be the first on my list.
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Post by grinfish on Oct 11, 2011 16:43:37 GMT 1
Apologies Ed, I must admit that I had put you in the bracket of fans who said that Turner was not an improvement on Simpson because neither delivered promotion, and even though we had our best points total for some time, it was still a failure. I stand corrected though Paul if we ever get round to posting on the worst Town managers Simpson will be the first on my list. ...closely followed by all the others, with priority positions given to those who may have voted for the Conservatives at any time in their life
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Post by Minormorris64 on Oct 11, 2011 17:21:58 GMT 1
Apologies Ed, I must admit that I had put you in the bracket of fans who said that Turner was not an improvement on Simpson because neither delivered promotion, and even though we had our best points total for some time, it was still a failure. I stand corrected though Paul if we ever get round to posting on the worst Town managers Simpson will be the first on my list. Maurice Evans must take some beating
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Post by Shrewed on Oct 11, 2011 17:46:51 GMT 1
Paul if we ever get round to posting on the worst Town managers Simpson will be the first on my list. ...closely followed by all the others, with priority positions given to those who may have voted for the Conservatives at any time in their life Good grief some people need to bring politics into everything.
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Post by Exkeeper on Oct 11, 2011 17:56:23 GMT 1
I must admit to being surprised that Ed has included Bates in his list of successful managers, but after saying that, many of Ed's views baffle me. Chic was an exceptional player for us, and I am led to believe, a good coach. As a manager, he struggled. Yes, he had one very good season - with someone else's team, but once he had to rebuild, we fell away dramatically, and McNeil was hired to rescue us. Most of Chic's success after hanging up his boots, came as a No 2, most notably to Lou Macari. Who built the team was it that Chic had his best season with? Oh yes, Graham Turner. As the manager who achieved the highest ever position in the league, I know Turner's team also finished 8th but Bates' team won more points, Chic deserves to be included in the best 5 Town managers especially as this was achieved with a reduced budget. Maybe ex-keeper you would like to suggest another manager who should be included in the top 5. As a tactician, judge of a player and man manager, I would put Richie Barker above Chic, but hey, it's all about opinions. I just prefer to remember Chic as a player, damn good one at that.
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Post by Shrewed on Oct 11, 2011 18:36:05 GMT 1
As the manager who achieved the highest ever position in the league, I know Turner's team also finished 8th but Bates' team won more points, Chic deserves to be included in the best 5 Town managers especially as this was achieved with a reduced budget. Maybe ex-keeper you would like to suggest another manager who should be included in the top 5. As a tactician, judge of a player and man manager, I would put Richie Barker above Chic, but hey, it's all about opinions. I just prefer to remember Chic as a player, damn good one at that. Difficult to judge Richie as he only managed the Town for 33 games, but as you say it's a matter of opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2011 19:42:50 GMT 1
I think Hope2010's rating of Turner my go up if he keeps us in the top half of the table this season with the current poor squad and poor new signings he has to work with
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Post by Shrewed on Oct 12, 2011 13:49:24 GMT 1
uliar I think Hope2010's rating of Turner my go up if he keeps us in the top half of the table this season with the current poor squad and poor new signings he has to work with Paul do you bother to read the posts other people make, I have already said he is good and one of the five best managers ever at the club. If he gets us promoted to the premiership I just might rate him as very good. I know you think that Turner is the next best thing to sliced bread but out of interest when did you start supporting the Town. Interesting to see how many managers you have to compare Turner to.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2011 20:54:43 GMT 1
I think Hope2010's rating of Turner my go up if he keeps us in the top half of the table this season with the current poor squad and poor new signings he has to work with Paul do you bother to read the posts other people make, I have already said he is good and one of the five best managers ever at the club. If he gets us promoted to the premiership I just might rate him as very good. I know you think that Turner is the next best thing to sliced bread but out of interest when did you start supporting the Town. Interesting to see how many managers you have to compare Turner to. As you have said he is in your top 5, I am assuming he is not right at the top therefore me saying he can go up in your estimation seems perfectly valid to me You can try the GT Messiah thing with me if you like but it wont work. He's doing a very good job so far and I think we will have another good season with him at the helm. I believe he has signed a handful of better players than the ones he has let go and this should see us challenging for promotion/play-offs again. You obviously believe otherwise and have posted many times that we will finish in the bottom half. Time will sort out who's right
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Post by Shrewed on Oct 12, 2011 22:03:14 GMT 1
Paul do you bother to read the posts other people make, I have already said he is good and one of the five best managers ever at the club. If he gets us promoted to the premiership I just might rate him as very good. I know you think that Turner is the next best thing to sliced bread but out of interest when did you start supporting the Town. Interesting to see how many managers you have to compare Turner to. As you have said he is in your top 5, I am assuming he is not right at the top therefore me saying he can go up in your estimation seems perfectly valid to me You can try the GT Messiah thing with me if you like but it wont work. He's doing a very good job so far and I think we will have another good season with him at the helm. I believe he has signed a handful of better players than the ones he has let go and this should see us challenging for promotion/play-offs again. You obviously believe otherwise and have posted many times that we will finish in the bottom half. Time will sort out who's right Paul, are you hoping to replace our MP because you have obviously been taking lessons from our politicians. Taking comments out on context and failing to answer direct questions.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2011 22:34:26 GMT 1
As you have said he is in your top 5, I am assuming he is not right at the top therefore me saying he can go up in your estimation seems perfectly valid to me You can try the GT Messiah thing with me if you like but it wont work. He's doing a very good job so far and I think we will have another good season with him at the helm. I believe he has signed a handful of better players than the ones he has let go and this should see us challenging for promotion/play-offs again. You obviously believe otherwise and have posted many times that we will finish in the bottom half. Time will sort out who's right Paul, are you hoping to replace our MP because you have obviously been taking lessons from our politicians. Taking comments out on context and failing to answer direct questions. Not sure what I have taken out of context............. my reply was clear enough. I have supported the Town actively since the early 70s so have seen quite a few managers come and go. But I only remember the recent ones in detail that's why I prefer to look at the history books for their achievements to make a judgement. You clearly think GT is currently doing a bad job with signings tactics etc if your posts early season are anything to go by. Since then, during a very decent run of form. you've decided not to post so I m not sure what your agenda is While on the subject of direct questions I m still waiting for the name of just the 1 player you said GT has bought who is better than the player he replaced
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Post by Shrewed on Oct 13, 2011 7:26:38 GMT 1
Paul, I really fail to understand your logic, I say Turner is a good manager and you somehow turn that into "he is doing a bad job". The difference between us is that you appear to think that he is infallible whereas I believe the team is a work in progress and needs improvement. What is the point match after match coming out with the same old garbage " we were great".
My views are based on the games I attend not on history books or other people's views in fact I rarely read reports of games I have missed. I also try not to judge players who I have seen rarely why pass comment on Reagan, Richards , Hazell or even Gurnell between them I have seen them play 10 times. I have been impressed with Morgan but would not at the moment rate Jacobson above Sadler.
Finally my comment at the beginning of July was that with the squad as it was then I felt that the Town could finish in the bottom half. At the time Turner had signed Morgan, Jacobson and Hazell.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2011 8:48:45 GMT 1
Ed, one thing I would say is that you say that Paul says thinks Turner is infallible but I dont get that at all. Paul, like myself and many others defend Turner when the likes of you and other people try and put a negative spin on anything GT related.
I think GT is doing a good job but it doesnt mean he is beyond criticism and certainly isnt the messiah, Saturdays performance is a prime example that theres plenty of things to work on. However because we defend GT and say he is doing a good job, we get the accusation that we worship him and in our eyes he can do no wrong, which isnt the case at all.
Finally you say "What is the point match after match coming out with the same old garbage " we were great"" and I agree with that, but is there any harm in saying that when we were great?
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Post by Shrewed on Oct 13, 2011 9:13:32 GMT 1
Ed, one thing I would say is that you say that Paul says thinks Turner is infallible but I dont get that at all. Paul, like myself and many others defend Turner when the likes of you and other people try and put a negative spin on anything GT related. I think GT is doing a good job but it doesnt mean he is beyond criticism and certainly isnt the messiah, Saturdays performance is a prime example that theres plenty of things to work on. However because we defend GT and say he is doing a good job, we get the accusation that we worship him and in our eyes he can do no wrong, which isnt the case at all. Finally you say "What is the point match after match coming out with the same old garbage " we were great"" and I agree with that, but is there any harm in saying that when we were great? Of course we should say we are great, when we are but honestly can you tell me when was the last time we put in a great performance for 45 minutes never mind 90.
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Oct 13, 2011 9:16:38 GMT 1
Ed, one thing I would say is that you say that Paul says thinks Turner is infallible but I dont get that at all. Paul, like myself and many others defend Turner when the likes of you and other people try and put a negative spin on anything GT related. I think GT is doing a good job but it doesnt mean he is beyond criticism and certainly isnt the messiah, Saturdays performance is a prime example that theres plenty of things to work on. However because we defend GT and say he is doing a good job, we get the accusation that we worship him and in our eyes he can do no wrong, which isnt the case at all. Finally you say "What is the point match after match coming out with the same old garbage " we were great"" and I agree with that, but is there any harm in saying that when we were great? Of course we should say we are great, when we are but honestly can you tell me when was the last time we put in a great performance for 45 minutes never mind 90. Arsenal first half, Swindon second half spring to mind immediately
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Post by Shrewed on Oct 13, 2011 9:33:12 GMT 1
Of course we should say we are great, when we are but honestly can you tell me when was the last time we put in a great performance for 45 minutes never mind 90. Arsenal first half, Swindon second half spring to mind immediately We are all entitled to our opinion mine, Arsenal for 20 minutes, Swindon lost the plot more than town great very poor Swindon keeper.
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Post by jonbond on Oct 13, 2011 10:04:51 GMT 1
Derby 1st half , in fact all game really
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Oct 13, 2011 10:12:02 GMT 1
Never mind the individual games really. I agree in a way that in a lot of our games this season, particularly the home ones, we haven't played that well, however to have a near perfect record from those is impressive.
With the talent in our first team if everything clicks and everyone plays well then we can go out and batter some of the teams in this division, however we seem to relax after going ahead which will eventually cost us, even if we did get away with it vs Crewe, Hereford, Torquay and Barnet.
But I do notice a pattern hope. If we don't batter a team, we weren't that good, if we do batter a team it's because they were rubbish.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2011 12:31:28 GMT 1
Arsenal first half, Swindon second half spring to mind immediately We are all entitled to our opinion mine, Arsenal for 20 minutes, Swindon lost the plot more than town great very poor Swindon keeper. And there lies the difference between me and you Ed When we play well I will say its partly down to the team/management, but to you,, its down to the other team entirely. This season Ive seen comments from you along the lines of "worst Crewe side Ive seen, a very poor Hereford side" and now its Swindon losing the plot with a poor keeper. Whilst they may be true, we can only beat when it is front of us and many Shrewsbury teams have failed to do that. Saturday for instance I recognised that second half it was a poor performance and we were lucky to get the win, however it was good to see to us showing character to win the game after throwing a 2 nil lead and with the momentum with Barnet. I cant really recall you giving any praise out to STFC Whilst I dont agree with you, I have no problem with that and again its all about opinions. However whilst you should be allowed to give your thoughts without being labelled a moaner, I should be able to give me thoughts without being labelled as someone who worships the manager
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Post by stfcfan87 on Oct 13, 2011 12:52:39 GMT 1
I do have to agree that Swindon's keeper was pretty shocking, and that Di Canio somehow managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory thanks to bizarre subs and unsettling his side with his constant rants.
I think we're a much improved side though, i've full confidence in us getting promotion this season.
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Post by Shrewed on Oct 13, 2011 15:15:34 GMT 1
Proudsalopian as Feedo says we have not played consistently well at home this season, and those games have basically been against the poorer teams in the league. Yes we have played well in most of the games I've seen but rarely for more than 20 minutes.
Unlike yourself your namesake seems to object to any criticism of Turner, this whole thread resulted from him responding to my comment " Turner is a good manager" but not necessarily the best ever.
In my mind one of the big problems with many football fans is that they fail to notice that there is another eleven players on the pitch, sometimes it is interesting to watch the opposite team and how they are playing.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2011 16:19:15 GMT 1
Proudsalopian as Feedo says we have not played consistently well at home this season, and those games have basically been against the poorer teams in the league. Yes we have played well in most of the games I've seen but rarely for more than 20 minutes. Unlike yourself your namesake seems to object to any criticism of Turner, this whole thread resulted from him responding to my comment " Turner is a good manager" but not necessarily the best ever. In my mind one of the big problems with many football fans is that they fail to notice that there is another eleven players on the pitch, sometimes it is interesting to watch the opposite team and how they are playing. Unfortunately Hope you will always get found out because most of your opinions/arguments are either incoherent or self contradicting. Take the above for instance: one minute you are saying you can't (or won't) judge players you have not seen personally many times.............. the next minute you re saying that you only claimed we were a bottom half team before we signed Regan, Richards or Gornell, ie players you say you have not seen very often . So are these the players who have transformed us or are we still a bottom half team in your eyes When you are backed into a corner you always seem to trot out the GT Messiah taunt to anybody who dares to say anything positive about our manager. Whether you saw any of it or not, if you couldn't "prioritise" a positive post (ahead of your political stuff) about this season's League Cup run, then again I wonder what your agenda is. You claim to have been a Shrewsbury supporter for years so you should know that expecting lower league sides to play well for 100% of the game is ludicrous. Do you really think Chesterfield did this in many/any of their games last season? Perhaps if you were more realistic in your expectations then you would see that the current manager and his players are not so bad after all .
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Post by Shrewed on Oct 14, 2011 0:04:26 GMT 1
Paul, that is one of the most ridiculous posts I have read in recent times. You are suggesting that whether you are at a match you should post a comment. I actually believe that you need to be at a match to comment, not base your comments on a history book.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2011 18:33:26 GMT 1
Paul, that is one of the most ridiculous posts I have read in recent times. You are suggesting that whether you are at a match you should post a comment. I actually believe that you need to be at a match to comment, not base your comments on a history book. I kind of suspected you would ignore all of my points and misrepresent something. Our League Cup run was 3 matches not one and my post clearly says it's strange you couldn't post anything positive about the "run", not any individual game...................... although I do remember you trying to dampen down anybody's excitement in the build up to the Arsenal game by predicting a turnout of only 2-2.5k Shrews fans. You seem to get quite few things absolutely wrong don't you
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Post by Shrewed on Oct 14, 2011 19:40:00 GMT 1
Paul, you are the only poster on here who seems unable to admit that Turner has made mistakes, like loaning Robinson, or releasing Raven. You have never posted that the town were poor or lucky to come away with a points.
For whatever reason that I don't begin to understand you have obviously got upset by my view that Turner is a good manager but that others who you have only read about are also good managers.
As a Scot do you really believe I should be praising the national team because the only lost 3 -1 to the world champions Spain. The town did well to beat Derby, and swansea's reserve side that would struggle in the conference. Bit like getting excited about performances against Man United and Wolves youth team.
As I have said before the town played well for 25 minutes at the emirates the second half was particularly one sided. You may have a different view thats the fun of being a football fan.
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Oct 14, 2011 19:45:15 GMT 1
Swansea's reserve side that would struggle to do well in the conference featured many players who played Championship football the season before.
Loaning Robinson wasn't a mistake IMO, the clause thing most certainly was a mistake, as was only really having three mainline strikers plus Ainsworth for the rest of the season.
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Post by Shrewed on Oct 14, 2011 19:53:59 GMT 1
Swansea's reserve side that would struggle to do well in the conference featured many players who played Championship football the season before. Loaning Robinson wasn't a mistake IMO, the clause thing most certainly was a mistake, as was only really having three mainline strikers plus Ainsworth for the rest of the season. Fair point about Swansea but on the night did they actually gel as a team.
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Oct 14, 2011 19:56:14 GMT 1
Swansea's reserve side that would struggle to do well in the conference featured many players who played Championship football the season before. Loaning Robinson wasn't a mistake IMO, the clause thing most certainly was a mistake, as was only really having three mainline strikers plus Ainsworth for the rest of the season. Fair point about Swansea but on the night did they actually gel as a team. They passed the ball about nicely but on the whole created little, I'm prepared to give Turner and the team alot of credit for the counter attacking gameplan he empoyed that I felt worked so well that game.
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Post by Valerioch on Oct 14, 2011 20:06:25 GMT 1
Swansea was a giant killing, League 2 beats Premiership, 9 changes or not! Great game!
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