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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2011 22:42:45 GMT 1
Thought this forum would have been full of people knocking the government for recognising the need to cut cost, and basically stating that 50 mp's need to be made redundant!! and making costituancies more equal in numbers, which hopefully mean a better representation of the vote.
Also read with interest the threat of strikes in shroppy star tonight by the council workers, but seems like the workers are that concerned, that over half did not even bother to vote on taking action...............
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Post by Dancin on Sept 13, 2011 23:01:45 GMT 1
When I first read the title I thought it read "Where are the Anti CONDOM Bridage"! LOL
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Post by mattmw on Sept 13, 2011 23:01:54 GMT 1
The boundary commission changes are just proposals at the moment, but are likely to be approved as the lib dems and conservatives agreed to the changes. Although the lib dems don't seem to come out of the changes too well so might back track on them!
The Ludlow constituency is changing quite a bit and taking in quite a bit of south Shropshire and part of North Hereford - will be interesting to see how a cross county seat works
As for the council changes it's all a bit confusing. Out of 6500 council workers only 1500 have agreed to have their terms and conditions changed; while out of 3000 union members 46% voted and of those 66% voted to consider strike action. So all in all it appears the majority of council workers have either not read their emails or don't have the foggiest idea what to do about changes to employment terms!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2011 23:03:50 GMT 1
So 46% of 3000 can be arsed to vote, so the other 54%, will they become scabs and cross the picket lines and go to work or what??
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Post by mattmw on Sept 13, 2011 23:13:07 GMT 1
The vote asked two questions - one was an all out strike, second was work to rule, so it might be the second option is used first.
Ideally I'd hope the lack of a resounding vote for the changes to terms - and the less than comprehensive support for strikes will get the unions and council leaders back to the table and discussing what course of action to take.
Basically the changes would save about £2 million a year, but a lot of staff think similar savings could be made by reviewing how things are delivered and departments making changes to how they work. Trouble is no one senior at the council bothers to ask our views - we just get emails on Fridays saying what's been decided
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2011 23:19:57 GMT 1
Matt, did not realise you worked for council, and obviously your vote and right is your business.
Would be very interested in why 54% of people who are directly linked and pay subscriptions to be a union member would not vote, as there livlihood is directly affected.
But the question the should really be, if there is not at least 50% of affected members in favour of a strike, then that should be no strike action should take place.......... your thoughts would be appreciated.
Undoubtably union bosses would hit back about general elections, but as there are many options in a general election i personally see this as a different type of ballot!!
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Post by Shrewed on Sept 13, 2011 23:21:17 GMT 1
Downie, I'd have thought you would be more concerned about another rise in the rate of inflation and the effect that the changes of state pension will have to all pensioners from April next year.
Or maybe you'd like to comment on the Transports Ministers statement that the railways is becoming a rich man's toy.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2011 23:25:43 GMT 1
Not really, I aint a pensioner yet.......... and dont use public transport........... I am fine Jack!! However, I still want my bloody bin emptied!!
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Post by shrewinjapan on Sept 14, 2011 0:39:15 GMT 1
When I first read the title I thought it read "Where are the Anti CONDOM Bridage"! LOL Me too. Thought it was a thread about the pope or someting
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Post by WindsorShrew on Sept 14, 2011 7:13:35 GMT 1
Does seem strange that there has been so little interest from Union members on what can only be described as a massive issue with regards to their pensions etc.
Interesting to listen to the Teachers Union on the radio this morning saying their pensions will be reduced to less than £10k per annum is this right ?
Any way interesting times ahead.
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Post by mattmw on Sept 14, 2011 7:30:16 GMT 1
Would be very interested in why 54% of people who are directly linked and pay subscriptions to be a union member would not vote, as there livlihood is directly affected. But the question the should really be, if there is not at least 50% of affected members in favour of a strike, then that should be no strike action should take place.......... your thoughts would be appreciated. Think there are a variety of reasons why a vote was relatively low. There is a lot of fear that a strike could lead to more redundancies - the letter staff had about the new terms said as much. Also quite a few staff at the council are part time or on low pay scales so are probably not willing to risk striking as they can't afford it. Some I've spoken to think the new terms will go through regardless so didn't bother to vote. Also Shropshire is hardly a hot bed of left wing rebels. We're a conservative area and council is conservative run so I don't think there would be massive support for a strike amongst the public I'd tend to agree about the 50% rate to force a strike, but would also like to see it in elections too. Part of my job at the council is to get people involved in voting and it's amazing how much apathy there is amongst the public about voting and challenging the council. At the last election some seats were uncontested and other seats only got 40% turn out The council has a lot of influence in what happens in Shropshire yet I imagine lots of people haven't got a clue who there councillor is, nevermind having voted for them
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Post by Shrewed on Sept 14, 2011 7:40:27 GMT 1
Not really, I aint a pensioner yet.......... and dont use public transport........... I am fine Jack!! However, I still want my bloody bin emptied!! And there speaks the real Thatcherite, "there is no such thing as society" many of the social problems we face today have their roots in the " sod you I'm alright" attitude of the 80's that unfortunately seem to be returning to Cameron's Britain.
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Post by davycrockett on Sept 14, 2011 8:01:53 GMT 1
Power to the people......... The revolution is coming
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Post by SeanBroseley on Sept 14, 2011 8:50:09 GMT 1
Forgot the post but thank you for reminding me Downie. On a personal level I am really pleased that I am no longer part of the Ludlow constituency. I saw no sense in Broseley being part of that constituency at all. I also think Philip Dunn will be quite pleased as he won't have to field my letters and emails.
We're now part of the South Telford and Bridgnorth constituency. Obviously the boundary changes have been altered to get rid of the one Labour constituency in the county but based on 2010 this looks like a three way split. That is very different from previous constituencies I have lived in that have been diehard Labour (Stoke and Newham) or Conservative (Ludlow and Stone).
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Post by Shrewed on Sept 14, 2011 9:24:24 GMT 1
Surely Sean you are not suggesting the Tory government would ever gerrymander?
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Post by Hatfieldshrew on Sept 14, 2011 9:47:01 GMT 1
If they want to cut the number of politicians, it's easy, just give us an English parliament.
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Post by Exkeeper on Sept 14, 2011 10:42:45 GMT 1
Not really, I aint a pensioner yet.......... and dont use public transport........... I am fine Jack!! However, I still want my bloody bin emptied!! And there speaks the real Thatcherite, "there is no such thing as society" many of the social problems we face today have their roots in the " sod you I'm alright" attitude of the 80's that unfortunately seem to be returning to Cameron's Britain. Hope, I rarely agree with you on anything STFC related, but, politically you always seem to read my mind. Agree 100% with you on this topic.
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Post by stfcfan87 on Sept 14, 2011 11:58:24 GMT 1
Can quite sympathise with the employees being faced with this blackmail pay cut.
Having to either accept a paycut or risk losing your job isn't a nice decision to have to make, and this is after council staff have already had a pay freeze for a while.
Apparently this has to happen in order to make savings. Meanwhile we have found out that the senior council members have: a. got brand new expensively renovated offices b. all the top councellors are going to be given apple i-pads at a cost of over £12,000, so they can better communicate and interract with the council's microsoft products?? c. the top brass had a special vip tent at the flower show
and not forgetting that the cost of that monstrosity slinky by the river has now cost over £1million - over £750k more than it was budgetted to.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2011 12:23:29 GMT 1
Can quite sympathise with the employees being faced with this blackmail pay cut. Having to either accept a paycut or risk losing your job isn't a nice decision to have to make, and this is after council staff have already had a pay freeze for a while. Apparently this has to happen in order to make savings. Meanwhile we have found out that the senior council members have: a. got brand new expensively renovated offices b. all the top councellors are going to be given apple i-pads at a cost of over £12,000, so they can better communicate and interract with the council's microsoft products?? c. the top brass had a special vip tent at the flower show and not forgetting that the cost of that monstrosity slinky by the river has now cost over £1million - over £750k more than it was budgetted to. Well lets look at those examples individually. A. The office renervation programme was constructed years ago, and were contractually obliged to carry on with them. B. Maakes sense, as can do so much with IPads, communication, with the likes of SKYPE and other free software is a no brainer, and have an all in one option is good efficency. C. So what, as long as it was not at taxpayers expense, and it was paid for by the event owner........ With regards the statue, the same as point A, the council have tried to cancel it, but the clauses within the contract do not allow it, blame trhe previous incumbants!!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2011 12:30:36 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2011 12:37:56 GMT 1
Absoloutely, We are in hard times, and have to sit it out!! In my business alone, my turnover is down 35% on last year, but rather than knee jerk reactions, realise that we are in turbulant times, and stop making matters worse by going on strike. That is lose lose situations. Get public sector realising that there is unnessacery waste, and allow the fat to be cut without touching the meat!! When was the last time the country basically said to MP's, right we are making 50 of you redundant!! The goverment have put in place some changes that will take 2 - 3 years for us to see the effect!! IN DAVE I TRUST!!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2011 12:48:29 GMT 1
Absoloutely, We are in hard times, and have to sit it out!! In my business alone, my turnover is down 35% on last year, but rather than knee jerk reactions, realise that we are in turbulant times, and stop making matters worse by going on strike. That is lose lose situations. Get public sector realising that there is unnessacery waste, and allow the fat to be cut without touching the meat!! When was the last time the country basically said to MP's, right we are making 50 of you redundant!! The goverment have put in place some changes that will take 2 - 3 years for us to see the effect!! IN DAVE I TRUST!! a price worth paying then?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2011 12:54:39 GMT 1
Absoloutely, We are in hard times, and have to sit it out!! In my business alone, my turnover is down 35% on last year, but rather than knee jerk reactions, realise that we are in turbulant times, and stop making matters worse by going on strike. That is lose lose situations. Get public sector realising that there is unnessacery waste, and allow the fat to be cut without touching the meat!! When was the last time the country basically said to MP's, right we are making 50 of you redundant!! The goverment have put in place some changes that will take 2 - 3 years for us to see the effect!! IN DAVE I TRUST!! a price worth paying then? Unfortuantely mate, yes, its happening all over the world, and were no different to them. We could indeed go oin printing money, but then devalue everthing that we have, and still be in the same situation in 15 - 20 years time.
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Post by WindsorShrew on Sept 14, 2011 12:57:02 GMT 1
althoughthe subject seems to have returned to the Public v Private arguments of old I feel there is some uniformity herein.
I have had a pay feeze for 3 years, colleagues have been made redundent and others (many) had to re-apply for the reduced posts available. Also my pension is sinking into the mire.
Now this begs the question why then do the Private sector not go on strike yet Public sector have and will do so again ?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2011 13:02:52 GMT 1
Windy,
The same is happening in the private sector, as in the public sector, every single institute in the uk economy is looking to be more efficient. Nobody gives a toss about Dulux or RICHO or other industries.
However when you state that there are inefficiencies in places such as the NHS, Police and Armed Forces... that is deemed as unnessacery cuts and it should be left well alone!!
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Post by Shrewed on Sept 14, 2011 13:22:44 GMT 1
a price worth paying then? Unfortuantely mate, yes, its happening all over the world, and were no different to them. We could indeed go oin printing money, but then devalue everthing that we have, and still be in the same situation in 15 - 20 years time. You've changed your tune when the recession came along it was gordon's fault now that we are heading for a second recession it is every ones fault but David and George. Growth is down, unemployment is up, inflation is up, borrowing is up, in fact every important indicator is going in the wrong direction but don't blame the ConDems.
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Post by jamo on Sept 14, 2011 13:36:11 GMT 1
So 46% of 3000 can be arsed to vote, so the other 54%, will they become scabs and cross the picket lines and go to work or what?? Facts and straight. Words regularly associated with Downies drivel.
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Post by jamo on Sept 14, 2011 13:42:42 GMT 1
Well lets look at those examples individually. A. The office renervation programme was constructed years ago, and were contractually obliged to carry on with them. B. Maakes sense, as can do so much with IPads, communication, with the likes of SKYPE and other free software is a no brainer, and have an all in one option is good efficency. C. So what, as long as it was not at taxpayers expense, and it was paid for by the event owner........ With regards the statue, the same as point A, the council have tried to cancel it, but the clauses within the contract do not allow it, blame trhe previous incumbants!! A. That is a lie and should be retracted. B. `These I-Pads for councillors will save the council millions` surely even you are not that niave ? C. It was tax payers money that was spent. Facts and straight. There's a theme building.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Sept 14, 2011 13:43:10 GMT 1
I think we're heading into an extremely interesting phase - even though it's an entirely predictable one.
Basically I would sum it up as follows: socialism for the banks and capitalism for the rest of us.
I love some of the stats coming out of the USA at the moment:
1) The cyclical trend: Median household income in 2010 was $49,445, a 2.3% from 2009. Down 6.4% from pre-recession level.
2) Is reinforcing the secular trend: Median male worker makes less now than 43 years ago in real terms.
There's an awful lot of sitting it out to be done yet.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Sept 14, 2011 13:50:17 GMT 1
Surely Sean you are not suggesting the Tory government would ever gerrymander? Spoke to a ex-Tory councillor from Wrekin earlier today: "he'll lose that seat".
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