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Post by SY3 on Oct 3, 2010 12:53:39 GMT 1
Turner inherited a poor squad imo. He has brought in 9 better players and has certainly improved our style of play overall. We can't expect to win in style every week as this division isn't that easy; we are going to have dips in form at times. Turner is only a quarter of the way through his first season so please be patient and give him a chance. Clearly the quality of depth in the squad isn't quite there yet, but that isn't GT's fault. He needs to give Leslie et al a fair chance to see how they cope and i am sure he will improve our squad further. In summary a good start, 4th spot is no disgrace thus far, and i am 100% confident GT will get us in the top 3.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Oct 3, 2010 13:35:09 GMT 1
GT has twice gone 4-5-1 at home against teams when we have been under the cosh.
Both times we have kept hold of a draw and had to soak up some pressure.
Once Robinson was moved to midfield we never got going: Harrold was isolated, Wright didn't know where to play as he could no longer hug the line and we made Torquay's life easy to pass it about but difficult to break us down.
For me the big questions yesterday posed are as follows:
1) If we can batter teams with 4-4-2, two wingers and two strikers, then why don'y we stick to it?
2) Playing Leslie in the centre is an experiment not to be repeated: Macca in front of our back four, Disley further forwards. Yes we missed McAllister but we made the loss bigger
3) I think questions have to be asked about what Wright & Ainsworth give to the team when they don't have the ball. They are doing ok, but could make more of a contribution
4) We have to earn the right to play our football. We are a league two side. Stop peeing around with short corners and short free kicks. Anything in their half should involve Harrold, Sharps and SCS attacking as an aerial threat in their box. Then when playing it on the deck let's use the pace of the wingers. We have the quality to take teams apart but sometimes we overcomplicate it. We still need to work on percentages, and dead ball situations are still our best chance of scoring.
As for GT overall: very impressed. Two outstanding full backs, two outstanding wingers and a Harrold, Sharps and Mcallister give our spine some real strength.
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Post by barrynic on Oct 3, 2010 15:34:52 GMT 1
Agree with those stupid corners --take note Trewick.
How the hell are the forwards and centre backs supposed to time their runs in on the ball when they have no idea when or how it will be delivered.
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Oct 3, 2010 15:54:27 GMT 1
To be fair, if we hadn't have given away stupid penalties we would have probably ground out a 1-0 win
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2010 16:30:50 GMT 1
Agree with those stupid corners --take note Trewick. How the hell are the forwards and centre backs supposed to time their runs in on the ball when they have no idea when or how it will be delivered. I can assure you they were very effective away at Wycombe so not surprising they were tried again yesterday.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2010 17:01:47 GMT 1
Yes those corners are stupid
I'm still not convinced we've solved the problem of opposition teams pinging a short but quick ball across our box from corners, Rotherham, Gillingham and Wycombe all have done this, granted they havent scored from it
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2010 17:05:53 GMT 1
So you didn't think they were effective at Wycombe mrcricket?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2010 17:11:16 GMT 1
So you didn't think they were effective at Wycombe mrcricket? Hi Ant, can you define what you mean by effective? Did we score from any of the corners using this particular method at wycombe? wasnt there so dont know and im just curious cos yesterday they seemed s**te?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2010 17:15:55 GMT 1
Nope, didn't score, but appeared to cause plenty of problems, including Sharpes' effort which hit the bar and Harrold's which was cleared off the line.
I can't see them being used every week due to the ability for a defending side to catch the taker offside but I think to write them off as useless as some fans have is short sighted, as they have the advantage of taking two defenders out of the area to match the two attacking players (a 'standard' corner would see one attacker and no defenders by the corner, hence this method gives the attacking team a numerative advantage in the area).
I'd hope going forward we pick and choose which matches to use them so that the opposition can't predict easily when the tactic will be used.
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Post by creature on Oct 3, 2010 18:40:43 GMT 1
Just a matter of brains. The guy receiving the ball needs to wait for the corner kicker to run past him and onside before releasing the pass
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Post by stockportershrew on Oct 3, 2010 18:57:12 GMT 1
1) If we can batter teams with 4-4-2, two wingers and two strikers, then why don'y we stick to it? 3) I think questions have to be asked about what Wright & Ainsworth give to the team when they don't have the ball. They are doing ok, but could make more of a contribution Haven't you answered your first question by raising your third one? The problem for me is that if the wingers aren't in the game then the two central midfielders get overrun. Any side doing their homework on us simply need to stick five across the middle and we look a little lost. 4-4-2 with wingers is nice but wonder if we're being a little naive at times. Don't get me wrong the football is a million times better than what we've been served up for some time and we are mostly trying to pass the ball but perhaps we need to be a little bit more savvy at times.
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Post by Pilch on Oct 3, 2010 18:59:45 GMT 1
our first touch was so poor today
ainsworth, wright and leslie the biggest culprits hardly turners fault that
i was a little disappointed not to see bradshaw get at least 15 minutes the poor lad made a big impact last week its seems its not a good idea for him to score he always gets dropped!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2010 19:10:23 GMT 1
Graham Turner has undoubtedly made mistakes throughout his career and will continue to do so. If anyone thinks hes going to get everything right is living in a dreamworld.
Yesterday he got his tactics and personnel wrong. The original poster said that Turner is a stubborn man, I wouldnt say that he is having witnessed what I have done so far. He has made changes in terms of tactics and players on a number of occasions, including yesterday although it did take too long to take Leslie off. A stubborn man would not have made changes at all.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Oct 3, 2010 19:41:03 GMT 1
It's often said of the players that if they didn't make mistakes they would be in the Premiership, surely the same applies to the manager?
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Post by jamo on Oct 3, 2010 19:47:26 GMT 1
Don't get me wrong the football is a million times better than what we've been served up for some time and we are mostly trying to pass the ball but perhaps we need to be a little bit more savvy at times. Spot on, and the reason for my original post.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2010 19:49:18 GMT 1
I can't see them being used every week due to the ability for a defending side to catch the taker offside but I think to write them off as useless as some fans have is short sighted, as they have the advantage of taking two defenders out of the area to match the two attacking players (a 'standard' corner would see one attacker and no defenders by the corner, hence this method gives the attacking team a numerative advantage in the area). I'd hope going forward we pick and choose which matches to use them so that the opposition can't predict easily when the tactic will be used. I 100% agree with your thinking but surely we could do this without actually taking a short corner.
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Post by Barthez2104 on Oct 3, 2010 20:04:57 GMT 1
There was no plan B. I said this after the Aldershot game. 2 teams have come here now with 5 across the middle to stop us playing our way through, and it is working. In both games we have had no idea of what to do. If you can't go through them, why not try going over them. We have 2 pacey wingers, give them something over the top to chase, turn the back 4. Or get the ball to harold and get bodies around him and play from there. We have to start mixing it up, other wise every team will come here and do what Aldershot and Torquay have done.
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Post by venceremos on Oct 4, 2010 1:24:04 GMT 1
We can only hope the dressing room is a bit more positive than this thread.
We didn't play well, Torquay did. It just wasn't there yesterday, the energy was low, Torquay closed us down and our passing and control were poor (Harrold excepted). Days like that are beyond tactical changes. We scored an opportunist goal but never had any momentum and I agree with Turner that we'd probably have lost if we'd stuck with 4-4-2.
I'd have brought McIntyre on sooner but I might have tried 4-4-1-1 with Leslie behind Harrold. But I don't blame Turner - we just didn't get started yesterday and a draw was as good as it was going to get.
We need McAllister & VdB back. Are we not allowed a bad run? We're a point from the top 3, 4 off the top and we've got 36 games to play and yet already we seem to have some on here ready to write us off.
I'd like to know who all these much better teams are, seeing as we've been winning praise from the fans of most teams we've played. Do we have to win every game to be any good? Do we need reminding that this team has played 10 league games together? It seems we do.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Oct 4, 2010 9:12:00 GMT 1
1) If we can batter teams with 4-4-2, two wingers and two strikers, then why don'y we stick to it? 3) I think questions have to be asked about what Wright & Ainsworth give to the team when they don't have the ball. They are doing ok, but could make more of a contribution Haven't you answered your first question by raising your third one? The problem for me is that if the wingers aren't in the game then the two central midfielders get overrun. Any side doing their homework on us simply need to stick five across the middle and we look a little lost. 4-4-2 with wingers is nice but wonder if we're being a little naive at times. Don't get me wrong the football is a million times better than what we've been served up for some time and we are mostly trying to pass the ball but perhaps we need to be a little bit more savvy at times. That is a very fair comment! I think the point I was trying to make is that if we're going 4-5-1 then I don't see how pushing Wright out of position helps. Either drop Robinson back a bit or push a player like Leslie forward in behind Harrold. Sticking Robinson out ont he wing totally isolates Harrold and leaves Wright not knowing where to play. Having said all that. McAllister missin is a big part of the issue we faced. Yesterday at 4-5-1 I think a midfield of: Robinson / Leslie Wright Disley Ainsworth McIntyre would have given us a bit more balance
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Post by Hatfieldshrew on Oct 4, 2010 9:37:14 GMT 1
I can't believe that some people are starting to have a go at the manager and the team.
A few weeks ago there was a thread on here about what a tough set of games we had coming up.
Apart from Gillingham and Saturday we have copped very well and felt unlucky not to get more out of them.
Also lets not forget Torquay were top of this league for a while and are a strong squad, who did their home work on us.
But we get one bad match at home and some people are saying that's it were going down, what absolute poppycock!!
Yes we do need a better midfield player, but your not going to get an all singing & dancing mid in this league with out breaking the bank, because there are at least 50 other teams looking for one.
Just remember at the start of the season no one out side of Shrewsbury and Steve Claridge gave us a chance of being near the top.
At the moment I for one am happy with what we have 4th and just come through a tough month of fixtures.
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Post by texmexshrew on Oct 4, 2010 10:15:21 GMT 1
GT has twice gone 4-5-1 at home against teams when we have been under the cosh. Both times we have kept hold of a draw and had to soak up some pressure. Once Robinson was moved to midfield we never got going: Harrold was isolated, Wright didn't know where to play as he could no longer hug the line and we made Torquay's life easy to pass it about but difficult to break us down. For me the big questions yesterday posed are as follows: 1) If we can batter teams with 4-4-2, two wingers and two strikers, then why don'y we stick to it? 2) Playing Leslie in the centre is an experiment not to be repeated: Macca in front of our back four, Disley further forwards. Yes we missed McAllister but we made the loss bigger 3) I think questions have to be asked about what Wright & Ainsworth give to the team when they don't have the ball. They are doing ok, but could make more of a contribution 4) We have to earn the right to play our football. We are a league two side. Stop peeing around with short corners and short free kicks. Anything in their half should involve Harrold, Sharps and SCS attacking as an aerial threat in their box. Then when playing it on the deck let's use the pace of the wingers. We have the quality to take teams apart but sometimes we overcomplicate it. We still need to work on percentages, and dead ball situations are still our best chance of scoring. As for GT overall: very impressed. Two outstanding full backs, two outstanding wingers and a Harrold, Sharps and Mcallister give our spine some real strength. Sometimes you have to earn the right to play your football as some pundit once said. on Saturday we started off sharply I thought, not so much with the ball but working hard to press. within the first 30seconds Harrold had closed down a centre half and strongly contested a clearance, our goal came from similar pressure. What we didnt see, at any time in the game was the normal tempo to our play with the ball. Both wingers looked lethargic as far as I am concerned and the centre mid was out done. Credit to Torquay who looked good on the ball, very impressive actually. To your points Dave . 1 - Our wingers were doubled up on. This has happened a few times already this season,and with no real creative force in centre mid, it exposes the lack of other attacking options. They did very good job, thought Zebroski was superb for them. As things panned out, it showed for me the lack of depth in the squad in the central mid areas and up front. Nothing on the bench (Bradshaw maybe) to change a game in an offensive way. McIntyre made a difference purely as our centre mid was too lightweight on the day. Torquay started the season with a great defensive record, and its not hard to see why. They get numbers back, are very well organised and occupy space well. To the squad. If Bright cant stay fit for more than a week at a time, he can never be considered an option regardless of form in the reserves. Neal clearly isnt doing enough/showing any value. With McIntyre and BvdB out I think the squad is exposed numerically and in quality.
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Post by venceremos on Oct 4, 2010 13:59:46 GMT 1
Presume you mean McAllister out, not McIntyre, TexMexShrew. Agree we need him and VdB back soon.
Would have been good to have Bright as an option too, especially if Bradshaw was carrying a knock, as was reported. Our problem was in midfield though and, more than anything, that too many players were off their game. It was clear that we weren't going to be able to pick up the tempo, we'd been too much off the pace for too long. Only a lucky break would have won us that match.
Leslie had a bad game but he didn't deserve the stick he got from some fans. I was glad to see him taken off but I applauded him anyway, as a reaction to the cheering against him. How does that help us? I'd have given Lewis Neal 20 minutes or so for Robinson as well.
We've had a few injuries, which always made a blip more likely. Of course that stretches us but then we're a League 2 club, not Chelsea.
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Post by elderstatesman on Oct 4, 2010 17:28:17 GMT 1
Is it not better to have a little dip in form now rather than at the end of the season like Bury last season G.T.will put things right in training and we will be back on track.Don't panic have faith and come the end of the season make judgements then.
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Post by venceremos on Oct 4, 2010 17:37:10 GMT 1
Wise words elderstatesman. He may or may not be the messiah but verily, you are well named.
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Post by stockportershrew on Oct 4, 2010 17:57:25 GMT 1
That is a very fair comment! I think the point I was trying to make is that if we're going 4-5-1 then I don't see how pushing Wright out of position helps. Either drop Robinson back a bit or push a player like Leslie forward in behind Harrold. Sticking Robinson out ont he wing totally isolates Harrold and leaves Wright not knowing where to play. Having said all that. McAllister missin is a big part of the issue we faced. Yesterday at 4-5-1 I think a midfield of: Robinson / Leslie Wright Disley Ainsworth McIntyre would have given us a bit more balance Perhaps another alternative is to find a wide midfielder for plan b. Not an out-out winger like Ainsworth but someone who can play right midfield, do some defensive work and is happy to tuck in. When we've got promotion before, (a long time ago admittedly), both Mickey Brown and David Tong did this.
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Post by jamo on Oct 4, 2010 19:20:58 GMT 1
I can't believe that some people are starting to have a go at the manager and the team. . I don't think people are having a go at the manager. Most of us are extremely grateful for the managers efforts and the optimism that he has engendered but it does not mean that there is no right to question his tactics sometimes.
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Post by africanshrew on Oct 4, 2010 19:21:49 GMT 1
He might not be the Mesiah but most fans asked for a manager who would encourage more entertaining football, after ten games we've had more entertaining football, fans hoped for a team who could put in a decent bid for promotion, we're 4th....etc Turner won't get everything right but surely if he was stubbon he wouldn't have changed tactics? If 3 or 4 players are under par against a decent side it's likely to be a tricky afternoon and so it proved.
Just a thought, but any chance Wright or Ainsworth could play in the 'hole' on days when one is not getting in the action out wide? Both capable of picking up the ball from deep and this would mess with those teams who try to stick 5 across the middle. Then sit three of Disley, McIntrye, McCallister or Wright behind.
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Post by nicko on Oct 4, 2010 20:29:38 GMT 1
Some good points on this thread.
So far our dip in form has consisted of one defeat and two draws. I'd even be happy with a point Saturday to make one and three.
It's not as if we've lost six on the bounce like we did last season. If the teams bad runs this season consists of a series of games like the last three I'll be more than happy.
GT's big test will be if he's able to keep the squad together if things do get worse and it doesn't implode like last season when the going got tough.
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