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Post by hooverfoxhat on Sept 14, 2010 19:17:40 GMT 1
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Post by jamo on Sept 14, 2010 19:22:43 GMT 1
A great big shining example of the insanity of our sentencing laws.
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Post by keithyshrew25 on Sept 14, 2010 19:30:32 GMT 1
Just as a bit of devils advocacy (sic) can you explain what a longer sentence would achieve please? Thanks awfully
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Post by saladsaladsalad on Sept 14, 2010 19:31:45 GMT 1
Bet BMW are cursing, thats the Range Rover down in sales for the next 5 years of his ban, thats the third time he's crashed one in the last 3 years. In seriousness though, definitely not before time, pure luck he hasnt killed someone up till now. I remember when he crashed his RR into a lorry, just chance it wasnt someone in a car, they'd have been in real trouble. Sun headline was good though 'GEORGE MICHAEL SHUNTS TRUCKER IN REAR'. The one from his public bog perversery was funny too.
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Post by jamo on Sept 14, 2010 19:35:03 GMT 1
Just as a bit of devils advocacy (sic) can you explain what a longer sentence would achieve please? Thanks awfully Turn that around and ask what 4 weeks in jail and a fine of £12000 - to a muliti millionaire, will achieve ? This bloke is a serial offender and should have been sentenced as such and in the same way as anyone of us would have been treated. A complete joke.
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Post by keithyshrew25 on Sept 14, 2010 19:39:01 GMT 1
So you're a 'prison to punish' rather than 'prison to reform' then?
Fair enough, thanks for the answer
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Post by saladsaladsalad on Sept 14, 2010 19:45:11 GMT 1
So you're a 'prison to punish' rather than 'prison to reform' then? Fair enough, thanks for the answer Prison IS to punish, that's the whole point of it....
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Post by jamo on Sept 14, 2010 19:45:25 GMT 1
So you're a 'prison to punish' rather than 'prison to reform' then? Fair enough, thanks for the answer The exact opposite in fact. And as someone with 20 years experience of the criminal justice system and it's appalling inconsistancies I have no problem justifying my comments. Thanks for the generalisation.
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Post by shrewsace on Sept 14, 2010 19:46:56 GMT 1
I agree Keithyshrew.
Why don't they have him involved in some kind of community service scheme where he can teach kids how to roll spliffs and conspicuously w@nk in public toilets.
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Post by WindsorShrew on Sept 14, 2010 19:56:28 GMT 1
I think the sentence should have been longer, as has been stated he is after all a serial offender who clearly has not learned his lesson.
It should also be pointed out that his offenses in particular pose in the majority of cases a danger to the general public.
So back to sentencing, the ideal prison would be one that combines deterrent and education so as to prevent re-offending. In this instance Mr Micheal will do neither. Therefore I opt for a minimum 6 months with compulsory education on narcotics.
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Post by keithyshrew25 on Sept 14, 2010 20:04:10 GMT 1
I agree Keithyshrew. Why don't they have him involved in some kind of community service scheme where he can teach kids how to roll spliffs and conspicuously w@nk in public toilets. Not come across the expression 'devils advocate' before then? Thanks for your input
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Post by shrewsace on Sept 14, 2010 20:06:13 GMT 1
I agree Keithyshrew. Why don't they have him involved in some kind of community service scheme where he can teach kids how to roll spliffs and conspicuously w@nk in public toilets. Not come across the expression 'devils advocate' before then? Thanks for your input Several times. Have always found it interchangable with 'talking s**te', strangely enough.
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Post by ambergambler on Sept 14, 2010 20:33:42 GMT 1
When i read the thread title i thought George was doing a musical with flech and godber as the characters,Porridge the musical!!!.........serious the guy needed a rude awakining (id imagine hes getting one most mornings)
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Post by shrewinjapan on Sept 14, 2010 20:46:45 GMT 1
Bet BMW are cursing, thats the Range Rover down in sales for the next 5 years of his ban Keep up - BMW sold Land Rover ten years ago. They're now owned by Tata, the Indian car maker.
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Post by jaytee on Sept 14, 2010 20:47:30 GMT 1
the guy needed a rude awakining (id imagine hes getting one most mornings) He'd better make sure he doesn't have a "careless whisper" for the next few mornings.
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Post by hooverfoxhat on Sept 14, 2010 20:56:26 GMT 1
Don't let the sun con go down on me
Or in his case maybe he will
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Post by saladsaladsalad on Sept 14, 2010 21:04:39 GMT 1
Bet BMW are cursing, thats the Range Rover down in sales for the next 5 years of his ban Keep up - BMW sold Land Rover ten years ago. They're now owned by Tata, the Indian car maker. genuinely surprised me that, knew that they still were using BMW engines/switchgear etc a couple of years ago.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2010 21:29:31 GMT 1
And they were owned by Ford inbetween...
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Post by rowleylegend on Sept 14, 2010 21:40:07 GMT 1
Wonder how long it is before he purposely drops the soap
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Post by jaytee on Sept 14, 2010 21:46:41 GMT 1
Wonder how long it is before he purposely drops the soap I hope he doesn't pick it up by singing, "I'm your man".
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Sept 14, 2010 22:12:34 GMT 1
Should have been sent down years ago - for his music
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Post by mrmagoo on Sept 14, 2010 22:19:16 GMT 1
So you're a 'prison to punish' rather than 'prison to reform' then? Fair enough, thanks for the answer Prison IS to punish, that's the whole point of it.... Yeah right... I see your point but the reality is......
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2010 22:36:39 GMT 1
Just as a bit of devils advocacy (sic) can you explain what a longer sentence would achieve please? Thanks awfully Turn that around and ask what 4 weeks in jail and a fine of £12000 - to a muliti millionaire, will achieve ? This bloke is a serial offender and should have been sentenced as such and in the same way as anyone of us would have been treated. A complete joke. Should we not accept him as being flawed, weak and impressionable, capable of getting things wrong as we all are? Sorry, that was your defence of Rooney, the serial hetrosexual shagger ( until that abhorrent newspaper NotW provides evidence otherwise) not to be used in defence of a homosexual pop star. Should we not form our own morals and stick to them and not force them onto others as some sort of moralistic evangelist. Oh, sorry, that was you again in defence of the serial hetrosexual shagger Rooney, aimed at those who dared see things slightly differently as your good self. Strange one this, two men, both serial offenders of a sexual nature, both multi millionaires, both subject to the pryings of our national press, and yet you defend one but not tother. Am i missing something here?
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Post by saladsaladsalad on Sept 14, 2010 22:37:55 GMT 1
I dont understand the point of view that prison is there to somehow rebuild people back into model citizens or solve their myriad of problems (whether violence, drugs, alcohol).
Prison is there to punish people by removing their freedom, rehabilitation that occurs in that time is positive and needed but the primary purpose is to punish and to prevent them from offending.
Too many people think we need to try and 'cure' people, what needs to be accepted is that a percentage of people are uncurable horrible, thieving, violent, druggie, paedo, rapist, murdering, blackmailing etc scum. So a percentage of the population need to be under lock and key, just as they have always been since medieval times.
I dont think George Michael has much grip on reality and the fact he endangers so many peoples lives (plus his own) means he needs to be locked away for everyones safety, whether 4 weeks makes any odds will be seen.
There are many cases where I would prefer people are simply locked away and I would happily pay more tax to keep them there - build more jails please, anyone who has raped, murdered or abused children etc should be kept away for life.
Edit - Baystonblue - i doubt you'd be so flippant if one of your family had been travelling along the same road as George Michael during his accidents over the last few years.
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Post by mrmagoo on Sept 14, 2010 22:41:57 GMT 1
I dont understand the point of view that prison is there to somehow rebuild people back into model citizens or solve their myriad of problems (whether violence, drugs, alcohol). Prison is there to punish people by removing their freedom, rehabilitation that occurs in that time is positive and needed but the primary purpose is to punish and to prevent them from offending. Too many people think we need to try and 'cure' people, what needs to be accepted is that a percentage of people are uncurable horrible, thieving, violent, druggie, paedo, rapist, murdering, blackmailing etc scum. So a percentage of the population need to be under lock and key, just as they have always been since medieval times. I dont think George Michael has much grip on reality and the fact he endangers so many peoples lives (plus his own) means he needs to be locked away for everyones safety, whether 4 weeks makes any odds will be seen. There are many cases where I would prefer people are simply locked away and I would happily pay more tax to keep them there - build more jails please, anyone who has raped, murdered or abused children etc should be kept away for life. Short term re offending rates are at 60% and cost the economy £10bn per year
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Post by saladsaladsalad on Sept 14, 2010 22:45:23 GMT 1
I dont understand the point of view that prison is there to somehow rebuild people back into model citizens or solve their myriad of problems (whether violence, drugs, alcohol). Prison is there to punish people by removing their freedom, rehabilitation that occurs in that time is positive and needed but the primary purpose is to punish and to prevent them from offending. Too many people think we need to try and 'cure' people, what needs to be accepted is that a percentage of people are uncurable horrible, thieving, violent, druggie, paedo, rapist, murdering, blackmailing etc scum. So a percentage of the population need to be under lock and key, just as they have always been since medieval times. I dont think George Michael has much grip on reality and the fact he endangers so many peoples lives (plus his own) means he needs to be locked away for everyones safety, whether 4 weeks makes any odds will be seen. There are many cases where I would prefer people are simply locked away and I would happily pay more tax to keep them there - build more jails please, anyone who has raped, murdered or abused children etc should be kept away for life. Short term re offending rates are at 60% and cost the economy £10bn per year [img src="http://www.shropshire.btinternet.co.uk/smiley/ www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/mad/mad0223.gif"].gif [/img][/quote] Which proves my point 3 - some people are incurable.
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Post by mrmagoo on Sept 14, 2010 22:47:14 GMT 1
So the question is if short term prison is not the answer and the offence does not warrant a longer term as defined in law, what is the answer??
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Post by saladsaladsalad on Sept 14, 2010 22:49:33 GMT 1
So the question is if short term prison is not the answer and the offence does not warrant a longer term as defined in law, what is the answer?? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_strikes_law. Can be modified to lesser offences, with a lesser ultimate penalty but a good idea and deterrent.
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Post by mrmagoo on Sept 14, 2010 22:51:55 GMT 1
Not enough prison spaces, they are at full capacity now and the government will not fund new ones....
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Post by saladsaladsalad on Sept 14, 2010 22:56:30 GMT 1
Not enough prison spaces, they are at full capacity now and the government will not fund new ones.... My original point 5, I thank you.
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