|
Post by froggy on Apr 20, 2010 10:20:08 GMT 1
It's a horrible sport (if you can call it that) for toffs. Should 100% remained banned! That's quite out of order. I would be slated if I openly laughed at someone for having less income than my family do. ie, povo, tramps ... They're not labels, they're human beings, its wrong to label them "toffs"
|
|
|
Post by Jonah on Apr 20, 2010 10:27:52 GMT 1
Any of you Antis actually been to a hunt? Any idea what goes on our what sort of people support them? Another great British tradition under threat because of vote grabers.
|
|
|
Post by stfcfan87 on Apr 20, 2010 10:37:24 GMT 1
No i haven't been to a hunt and i've no wish to unless i'm able to legally shoot the people involved.
|
|
|
Post by prioryshrew on Apr 20, 2010 10:40:14 GMT 1
Any of you Antis actually been to a hunt? Any idea what goes on our what sort of people support them? Another great British tradition under threat because of vote grabers. Yes Jonah I have been to a hunt and seen men digging into the foxes' earth to allow the hounds to tear the fox to bits. How can anyone support such a barbaric activity in the name of sport. Any "sport" which inflicts pain on a living thing for the personal enjoyment of human beings must be wrong. Jonah you really need to visit other countries and see the efforts that are being made to protect animals from hunters and poachers. Traditions change, generally for the better.
|
|
|
Post by monkee on Apr 20, 2010 11:17:32 GMT 1
Any of you Antis actually been to a hunt? Any idea what goes on our what sort of people support them? Another great British tradition under threat because of vote grabers. Any "sport" which inflicts pain on a living thing for the personal enjoyment of human beings must be wrong. a rather blanket statement, so fishing,horse racing and show jumping. in fact most sports involve pain at some point with the living thing being a human being. our entire economy is supported by industries that are based on the manipulation and control of animals and are quite often cruell. scratch the surface and you may find that many of the products that you use come from places where animal and human cruelty are widespread. so yes, its nice to stick up for the cuddly animals like seals and foxes, unless you follow it through into the whole of your life, it seems a little hollow. personally i dont like fox hunting, but the discussion had moved on to the hypocracy of a party using it as a single issue to gain votes from certain demographics. but i dont personally oppose it because i feel that i am complicit in a society that uses and abuses animals and the enviroment as a whole , so it would be hypocritical.
|
|
|
Post by shrew4life on Apr 20, 2010 11:24:30 GMT 1
Only Toffs get defensive when the word toff is used, so maybe your one. Maybe toff isn't the right word for the people who take part in fox hunting. Maybe the word I'm looking for is cruel, horrible, heartless and condoning of animal cruelty. And people who cause harm to innocent animals are in my eyes scum. And of course foxes are lovely and cuddly aren't they [img src="http://www.shropshire.btinternet.co.uk/smiley/ www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/mad/mad0223.gif"].gif [/img] [img src="http://www.shropshire.btinternet.co.uk/smiley/ www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/mad/mad0223.gif"].gif[/img] [img src="http://www.shropshire.btinternet.co.uk/smiley/ www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/mad/mad0223.gif"].gif[/img] Of course i had overlooked the fact that these days all foxes are vegans of course and don't maul chickens, lambs etc etc [/quote] Erm where did I say they were lovely and cuddly? Foxes killing chickens or lambs is part of nature. Cats kill birds and mice but your not going to start hunting them. Men in tight trousers wearing wellingtons, letting dogs rip to shreds an animal or shooting it, is not nature.
|
|
|
Post by prioryshrew on Apr 20, 2010 11:29:26 GMT 1
a rather blanket statement, so fishing,horse racing and show jumping. in fact most sports involve pain at some point with the living thing being a human being. Slight difference between two boxers knocking six bells out of each other and a fox being chased by a pack of hounds. Don't remember reading anywhere that foxes gave their consent to the huntsmen to chase them.
|
|
|
Post by Minor on Apr 20, 2010 11:45:44 GMT 1
[/img] [img src="http://www.shropshire.btinternet.co.uk/smiley/ www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/mad/mad0223.gif"].gif[/img] [img src="http://www.shropshire.btinternet.co.uk/smiley/ www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/mad/mad0223.gif"].gif[/img] Of course i had overlooked the fact that these days all foxes are vegans of course and don't maul chickens, lambs etc etc [/quote] Erm where did I say they were lovely and cuddly? Foxes killing chickens or lambs is part of nature. Cats kill birds and mice but your not going to start hunting them. Men in tight trousers wearing wellingtons, letting dogs rip to shreds an animal or shooting it, is not nature. [/quote] On my daily trundle to our cricket ground this week, so far 1 dead badger & 1 dead mink killed by vehicles is that nature ?? get over it, ther are far more important things in life............errrrrrrr oh yes PEOPLE for starters
|
|
|
Post by monkee on Apr 20, 2010 11:47:40 GMT 1
a rather blanket statement, so fishing,horse racing and show jumping. in fact most sports involve pain at some point with the living thing being a human being. Slight difference between two boxers knocking six bells out of each other and a fox being chased by a pack of hounds. Don't remember reading anywhere that foxes gave their consent to the huntsmen to chase them. thats the point, animals never qive their consent, not for fox hunting, the bull for the bullfight, the cow for the leather jacket , the battery chicken for the theft of its egg.their consent is not required, we are the dominant species , we do as we please wherever we like and nobody says a thing. i have had this argument with some animal rights activist friends i had a while back and i can respect their view a lot more than the average guy on this issue, because they practise what they preach, whereas the average guy is happy to pick and choose what animals to save and ignore the fact that his leather jacket and his burger comes with cruelty also. we chose as a society to right this particular wrong, not because it is cruel but because it was politically convenient.
|
|
|
Post by El Presidente on Apr 20, 2010 12:12:11 GMT 1
we chose as a society to right this particular wrong, not because it is cruel but because it was politically convenient. Kerching... Sleepwalking to 1984...? ...to develop further, when will the government of the day pressure the EU to ban completely farrowing crates? And when will the British consumer properly boycott those producers who follow such practices? Veal crates? Battery hens? Tail docking of cattle? Traditional production of Fois Gras?
|
|
|
Post by Jonah on Apr 20, 2010 12:15:03 GMT 1
Any of you Antis actually been to a hunt? Any idea what goes on our what sort of people support them? Another great British tradition under threat because of vote grabers. Yes Jonah I have been to a hunt and seen men digging into the foxes' earth to allow the hounds to tear the fox to bits. How can anyone support such a barbaric activity in the name of sport. Any "sport" which inflicts pain on a living thing for the personal enjoyment of human beings must be wrong. Jonah you really need to visit other countries and see the efforts that are being made to protect animals from hunters and poachers. Traditions change, generally for the better. You have been to a hunt? Then you are no better Poaching cannot be compared with illegal poaching of endangered species The fox is not endangered and has no natural predator except the hound. Hounds hunt in a pack the same as wolfs etc. To watch the hounds at work and see how clever the fox is a truly magnificant sight. Sorry but you have to see it to appreciate it. Yes foxes get caught but they also get shot and run over. Hunting is the traditional way of Fox control It is probably 25 years since I regularly followed the hunt on foot along with many other commoners. I have had some great days out in South Shropshire and dont regret a minute of it.
|
|
|
Post by shrew4life on Apr 20, 2010 12:17:51 GMT 1
Erm where did I say they were lovely and cuddly? Foxes killing chickens or lambs is part of nature. Cats kill birds and mice but your not going to start hunting them. Men in tight trousers wearing wellingtons, letting dogs rip to shreds an animal or shooting it, is not nature. On my daily trundle to our cricket ground this week, so far 1 dead badger & 1 dead mink killed by vehicles is that nature ?? get over it, ther are far more important things in life............errrrrrrr oh yes PEOPLE for starters Of course that happens but the drivers of those vehicles didn't go out driving just to kill an animal. It's accidental. Shooting, poisoning and letting a bunch of dogs kill an animal is not accidental.
|
|
|
Post by shrew4life on Apr 20, 2010 12:25:55 GMT 1
Yes Jonah I have been to a hunt and seen men digging into the foxes' earth to allow the hounds to tear the fox to bits. How can anyone support such a barbaric activity in the name of sport. Any "sport" which inflicts pain on a living thing for the personal enjoyment of human beings must be wrong. Jonah you really need to visit other countries and see the efforts that are being made to protect animals from hunters and poachers. Traditions change, generally for the better. To watch the hounds at work and see how clever the fox is a truly magnificant sight. Sorry but you have to see it to appreciate it. Yes foxes get caught but they also get shot and run over. So in the same sentence you go from saying how magnificent it is to see how clever the fox is yet you are quite happy to see it get ripped to shreds. Surely if something is magnificent then you wouldn't want it harmed in any way.
|
|
|
Post by WindsorShrew on Apr 20, 2010 13:01:57 GMT 1
An emotive subject that often tends to inflame passions of those for and against.
Ben your points on Veal etc are spot on, yet not addressed in the same way as the Fox issue.
Further if the issue is based on cruelty then surely the Grand National is the next to be banned as Ed says it must be cruel to whip a horse around a track for 3 miles plus.
As appaling as fox hunting is to some it is without doubt a tradition that was used as a political tool.
For the record I am currently neither for or against it.
|
|
|
Post by Jonah on Apr 20, 2010 13:14:05 GMT 1
To watch the hounds at work and see how clever the fox is a truly magnificant sight. Sorry but you have to see it to appreciate it. Yes foxes get caught but they also get shot and run over. So in the same sentence you go from saying how magnificent it is to see how clever the fox is yet you are quite happy to see it get ripped to shreds. Surely if something is magnificent then you wouldn't want it harmed in any way. Please read what I posted again and not take it out of context.
|
|
|
Post by stfcfan87 on Apr 20, 2010 13:35:21 GMT 1
Well as long as it's tradition that makes everything alright. We should go back to slavery too as that was traditionally how we did things. And why not just let people die of cholera too.
|
|
|
Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Apr 20, 2010 13:36:00 GMT 1
Not particularly relevant, but our alloment site has been plagued by an increase in the rabbit population in recent years.
We believe that this is because of the introduction of wheelie bins.
Prior to that urban foxes were well fed from the contents of dustbin bags, but they can't get into wheelie bins.
Therefore the fox population declines and rabbit numbers increase.
|
|
|
Post by shrewsace on Apr 20, 2010 13:49:25 GMT 1
Oscar Wilde's quote "The unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable", says it all really.
And who is raising this as an election issue?
Not the 'vote grabbing' Tories?
|
|
|
Post by El Presidente on Apr 20, 2010 15:35:59 GMT 1
Oscar Wilde's quote "The unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable", says it all really. And who is raising this as an election issue? Not the 'vote grabbing' Tories? I believe its been a tory menefesto pledge since the legislation was introduced, mes amis...redressing the balance, I would say. I am not sure how neutral the famed Countryside Alliance poll was, but it returned in favour of hunting... "The Hunting Act is simply a bad law that has failed. The ban on hunting was driven by class politics and prejudice, not animal welfare or wildlife management, which is why it is completely unworkable. The courts have spent weeks wrestling with the law with one judge saying that the Hunting Act is ’…far from simple to interpret or apply.’ “Getting rid of the Hunting Act would be a public benefit. It has wasted thousands of hours of police time and millions of pounds of taxpayers money. Opinion polls show that less than three in ten people think that the Hunting Act is working. “David Cameron has consistently repeated the commitment to a free vote on a government bill in government time to repeal the Hunting Act and almost all Conservative MPs and candidates in marginal seats support repeal. Meanwhile increasing numbers of Labour and Lib Dem MPs accept the Hunting Act has failed. That is why this season could be the last season under the ban" Countryside Alliance. For the record, I too am a neutral. I also thought this youtube clip may raise the mood a little...
|
|
|
Post by WindsorShrew on Apr 20, 2010 16:44:47 GMT 1
Well as long as it's tradition that makes everything alright. We should go back to slavery too as that was traditionally how we did things. And why not just let people die of cholera too. Petty post.
|
|
|
Post by ratcliffesghost on Apr 20, 2010 18:14:14 GMT 1
Blimey - It was pointed out to me the other day that the ignorance level on this board has increased sharply over the last 3 years but this thread in comparison to the epic fox hunting thread on here of 3 years ago is the best tangible measure of it
|
|
|
Post by shrew4life on Apr 20, 2010 18:40:26 GMT 1
So in the same sentence you go from saying how magnificent it is to see how clever the fox is yet you are quite happy to see it get ripped to shreds. Surely if something is magnificent then you wouldn't want it harmed in any way. Please read what I posted again and not take it out of context. How is it taken out of context?
|
|
|
Post by eclipsechaser on Apr 21, 2010 17:19:30 GMT 1
Erm where did I say they were lovely and cuddly? Foxes killing chickens or lambs is part of nature. Cats kill birds and mice but your not going to start hunting them. Men in tight trousers wearing wellingtons, letting dogs rip to shreds an animal or shooting it, is not nature. On my daily trundle to our cricket ground this week, so far 1 dead badger & 1 dead mink killed by vehicles is that nature ?? get over it, ther are far more important things in life............errrrrrrr oh yes PEOPLE for starters The first ( fox searching for food ) is nature , the second ( road kill ) is accidental, the third ( packs of hounds set to attack and kill one fox ) is DELIBERATE . Its good to know you have standards .
|
|
|
Post by eclipsechaser on Apr 21, 2010 17:26:26 GMT 1
Oscar Wilde's quote "The unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable", says it all really. And who is raising this as an election issue? Not the 'vote grabbing' Tories? I believe its been a tory menefesto pledge since the legislation was introduced, mes amis...redressing the balance, I would say. I am not sure how neutral the famed Countryside Alliance poll was, but it returned in favour of hunting... "The Hunting Act is simply a bad law that has failed. The ban on hunting was driven by class politics and prejudice, not animal welfare or wildlife management, which is why it is completely unworkable. The courts have spent weeks wrestling with the law with one judge saying that the Hunting Act is ’…far from simple to interpret or apply.’ “Getting rid of the Hunting Act would be a public benefit. It has wasted thousands of hours of police time and millions of pounds of taxpayers money. Opinion polls show that less than three in ten people think that the Hunting Act is working. “David Cameron has consistently repeated the commitment to a free vote on a government bill in government time to repeal the Hunting Act and almost all Conservative MPs and candidates in marginal seats support repeal. Meanwhile increasing numbers of Labour and Lib Dem MPs accept the Hunting Act has failed. That is why this season could be the last season under the ban" Countryside Alliance. For the record, I too am a neutral. I also thought this youtube clip may raise the mood a little... It is easy to interpret . It is illegal to hunt foxes . How difficult is that for some to comprehend ?
|
|
|
Post by El Presidente on Apr 21, 2010 20:10:37 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by eclipsechaser on Apr 21, 2010 20:42:10 GMT 1
That was a breeze . Coming soon to a court near you .....................
|
|
|
Post by El Presidente on Jun 7, 2010 4:54:08 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by SeanBroseley on Jun 7, 2010 7:56:00 GMT 1
Totally against fox-hunting. There's no need for it: if people want to network then there's the golf course. If people want to kill foxes then there's a career in pest control waiting for them. But it is, like dog-bating and cockfighting an easy target. The proper target in terms of animal welfare is the industrialisation of the production of food. Production of cheap food (along with the creation of money as debt) is the bedrock of the economic system and the current economic problems we face: Then there's this one: The pig's screaming because he knows....
|
|
|
Post by SeanBroseley on Jun 7, 2010 8:12:02 GMT 1
I'll be very interested in seeing how this particular story unfolds
|
|
|
Post by Victoria on Jun 7, 2010 9:09:19 GMT 1
It's still legal to chase a fox using dogs, but illegal to let the dogs kill them (am I right?). The other option now being to shoot the fox, on horseback moving at speed. I think the dogs will be a much quicker death. Therefore, for me fox hunting is more humane than fox shooting.
I promise more foxes are killed by farmers shooting them from their tractor than were killed by fox hunting.
I'd like to point out I'm a neutral, I don't think there's an easy enough answer to be on one side or the other. But I know plenty of people who enjoy the hunt and not one of them is a toff. The class war of the whole thing is annoying. Should we ban football crowds because of the inevitable violence it brings to the community? Or would people cry class war at that? I dunno probably.
|
|