Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
BNP
Apr 27, 2006 13:31:04 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2006 13:31:04 GMT 1
so you agree with my other points then dave? Anyhow back on track, from what i understand of their manifesto, if any other political party had these policies, they'd be lsughed out of politics, a GCSE student could come up with better their economic policies are tantamount to economic suicide, their immagration policies aand policies about british jobs for british workers,self sustaining and self providing economy, national service for all, whilst pulling out of international agreements and and organisations and the "relocation" of foreigners really does bear a stark resemblence to Germany from 1933 and the polocies Hitler adopted... I am surprised that more have not picked up on it. Maybe those disenfranchised who vote for the BNP, whilst not being racists (noone ever is), are certanly very naive, very narrowminded and certanly fear change and the wider community that comes with change. Maybe they are just stupid. Fantastic post Rob. For a change....
|
|
|
BNP
Apr 27, 2006 13:55:15 GMT 1
Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Apr 27, 2006 13:55:15 GMT 1
so you agree with my other points then dave? No, I just didn't want this to become yet another long religious debate. I firmly believe the BNP are racist scum and are not a political organisation as much as they are a front for a variety of violent organisations that have an underlying motive that is against the law. That is the point of this thread so I thought I would try and stick to it, which i don't always manage to do.
|
|
|
BNP
Apr 27, 2006 13:59:06 GMT 1
Post by indianwells on Apr 27, 2006 13:59:06 GMT 1
so you agree with my other points then dave? No, I just didn't want this to become yet another long religious debate. I firmly believe the BNP are racist scum and are not a political organisation as much as they are a front for a violent organisation that has an underlying motive that is against the law. That is the point of this thread so I thought I would try and stick to it, which i don't always manage to do. Pretty much hit the nail on the head there Throb.
|
|
|
BNP
Apr 27, 2006 19:46:52 GMT 1
Post by mikeinsheff on Apr 27, 2006 19:46:52 GMT 1
Salopboy, and the other bnp supporters:-
I have a big problem with most of what you say and there a many holes in your arguments. Apologies in advance for being sanctimonious (again) but I do have a lot of first hand experience in many of the areas that you profess to know about.
My wife and I have lived as economic migrants for the best part of three years now although our motives for working overseas are not to do with finance. Whilst living there we were not able to completely integrate into the Spanish lifestyle but we did make a fair effort; just as the vast majority of people coming to Britain do. We lived for two years in the Canary Islands working as teachers and I was somewhat surprised and pleased to see how multi-cultural Las Palmas is. Spain had a much higher number of illegal immigrants than Britain although a lower overall ethnic minority population. After the Madrid bombings, the Spanish government changed hands quickly and Zapatero realised that a different solution to their problems was needed; he gave out Spanish naturalisation to pretty much everybody who in the country who asked for it. I think the first wave numbered 80000 new Spaniards. He then declared that he would be able to tax the new citizens properly (and protect them) and also crack down hard on those living in Spain illegally. Sensible policies that certainly won`t completely solve the Government`s problems but, then again, Spain does have a much worse problem with immigration than Britain.
It is a common myth that Britain is a soft target for immigrants. We are about average within the EC. Per capita some of the Scandinavian countries take many more as does Germany. Geographically we are very difficult to enter so refugees and asylum-seekers usually target an easier road trip which is not surprising to me having read stories each week about West Africans arriving on the beaches of Lanzarote and Gran Canaria already dead from their hopeless journeys.
Now living in Egypt I am a foreign worker in a country that is 90% Muslim. My first hand experience has shown me that the religion can be a central part of someone`s life and benefit society at large. At a simplistic level, it means we do not really have any petty crime. There is no theft or burglary and the absence of alcohol means a clear reduction in violent crime. The vast majority of Muslims here are tolerant, friendly and lovely people. I feel that they would prefer you to be Christian than atheist because they realise that it is the same God that they worship. How so many of them manage to answer the call to prayer (first one at 3.30am at the moment, and yes it does sometimes wake me up!) and fast during Ramadam, no food or drink, when we are in the Sahara can only be admired in my opinion! We all know that there are extremists who choose to interpret the Qu`ran differently and divisively but most Muslims revile such people.
The Muslim community in Britain is obviously much newer and many of the problems that they encounter are due to ignorance, suspicion and misunderstandings of British people. I lived and worked in a multi-cultural environment in West Yorkshire for more than ten years and I know that education on both sides can solve most of these problems. I know that I am idealistic but I passionately believe that we are all equal and one of the things that I love about Britain is our tolerant multi-cultural history. We must preserve our country from vitriolic villains like nick griffin`s goons.
|
|
|
BNP
Apr 27, 2006 20:06:39 GMT 1
Post by jamesbrown on Apr 27, 2006 20:06:39 GMT 1
Salopboy, am I allowed to stay?
|
|
chrisj
Midland League Division Two
Just get on with it.
Posts: 164
|
BNP
Apr 27, 2006 20:25:17 GMT 1
Post by chrisj on Apr 27, 2006 20:25:17 GMT 1
Salopboy, and the other bnp supporters:- I have a big problem with most of what you say and there a many holes in your arguments. Apologies in advance for being sanctimonious (again) but I do have a lot of first hand experience in many of the areas that you profess to know about. My wife and I have lived as economic migrants for the best part of three years now although our motives for working overseas are not to do with finance. Whilst living there we were not able to completely integrate into the Spanish lifestyle but we did make a fair effort; just as the vast majority of people coming to Britain do. We lived for two years in the Canary Islands working as teachers and I was somewhat surprised and pleased to see how multi-cultural Las Palmas is. Spain had a much higher number of illegal immigrants than Britain although a lower overall ethnic minority population. After the Madrid bombings, the Spanish government changed hands quickly and Zapatero realised that a different solution to their problems was needed; he gave out Spanish naturalisation to pretty much everybody who in the country who asked for it. I think the first wave numbered 80000 new Spaniards. He then declared that he would be able to tax the new citizens properly (and protect them) and also crack down hard on those living in Spain illegally. Sensible policies that certainly won`t completely solve the Government`s problems but, then again, Spain does have a much worse problem with immigration than Britain. It is a common myth that Britain is a soft target for immigrants. We are about average within the EC. Per capita some of the Scandinavian countries take many more as does Germany. Geographically we are very difficult to enter so refugees and asylum-seekers usually target an easier road trip which is not surprising to me having read stories each week about West Africans arriving on the beaches of Lanzarote and Gran Canaria already dead from their hopeless journeys. Now living in Egypt I am a foreign worker in a country that is 90% Muslim. My first hand experience has shown me that the religion can be a central part of someone`s life and benefit society at large. At a simplistic level, it means we do not really have any petty crime. There is no theft or burglary and the absence of alcohol means a clear reduction in violent crime. The vast majority of Muslims here are tolerant, friendly and lovely people. I feel that they would prefer you to be Christian than atheist because they realise that it is the same God that they worship. How so many of them manage to answer the call to prayer (first one at 3.30am at the moment, and yes it does sometimes wake me up!) and fast during Ramadam, no food or drink, when we are in the Sahara can only be admired in my opinion! We all know that there are extremists who choose to interpret the Qu`ran differently and divisively but most Muslims revile such people. The Muslim community in Britain is obviously much newer and many of the problems that they encounter are due to ignorance, suspicion and misunderstandings of British people. I lived and worked in a multi-cultural environment in West Yorkshire for more than ten years and I know that education on both sides can solve most of these problems. I know that I am idealistic but I passionately believe that we are all equal and one of the things that I love about Britain is our tolerant multi-cultural history. We must preserve from vitriolic villains like nick griffin`s goons. Not sanctimonious (you never were). Excellent post Mike.
|
|
|
BNP
Apr 27, 2006 20:46:43 GMT 1
Post by ianwhit on Apr 27, 2006 20:46:43 GMT 1
Ephesians 5 "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself." alright if your married then, what about if two same sex people want to do the same? on the bnp, i'd agree with people and tell them to go read their full manitesto and if you agree with it then you vote bnp. the bnp only win when their is total apathy with politics, it happened when i was in london and they got an mep in the isle of dogs. if you've got the vote and aren't going to use due to apathy i'd urge you to go and vote becuase that one vote could mean the bnp getting into power, it's really that simple.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
BNP
Apr 27, 2006 20:52:36 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2006 20:52:36 GMT 1
I agree with Ian.
|
|
|
BNP
Apr 27, 2006 20:52:55 GMT 1
Post by ianwhit on Apr 27, 2006 20:52:55 GMT 1
Ever since 9/11 the media and political spin on Islam has nearly always been along the lines of ..... Islam is a religion of peace, similar to Christianity and it's teachings have simply been twisted by a small number of hardliners in order to further their own goals. - This is utter nonsense. there's fundametalists in all religions, christian, jew etc, you look at america and the pro lifers who go and shoot dead doctors who perform abortians...think if you go back through history the core cause of most conflicts is religion...good old st george didn't pop off on the crusades just for a bit of sight seeing.
|
|
salopboy
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 183
|
BNP
Apr 27, 2006 22:02:51 GMT 1
Post by salopboy on Apr 27, 2006 22:02:51 GMT 1
Salopboy, and the other bnp supporters:- I have a big problem with most of what you say and there a many holes in your arguments. Apologies in advance for being sanctimonious (again) but I do have a lot of first hand experience in many of the areas that you profess to know about. My wife and I have lived as economic migrants for the best part of three years now although our motives for working overseas are not to do with finance. Whilst living there we were not able to completely integrate into the Spanish lifestyle but we did make a fair effort; just as the vast majority of people coming to Britain do. We lived for two years in the Canary Islands working as teachers and I was somewhat surprised and pleased to see how multi-cultural Las Palmas is. Spain had a much higher number of illegal immigrants than Britain although a lower overall ethnic minority population. After the Madrid bombings, the Spanish government changed hands quickly and Zapatero realised that a different solution to their problems was needed; he gave out Spanish naturalisation to pretty much everybody who in the country who asked for it. I think the first wave numbered 80000 new Spaniards. He then declared that he would be able to tax the new citizens properly (and protect them) and also crack down hard on those living in Spain illegally. Sensible policies that certainly won`t completely solve the Government`s problems but, then again, Spain does have a much worse problem with immigration than Britain. It is a common myth that Britain is a soft target for immigrants. We are about average within the EC. Per capita some of the Scandinavian countries take many more as does Germany. Geographically we are very difficult to enter so refugees and asylum-seekers usually target an easier road trip which is not surprising to me having read stories each week about West Africans arriving on the beaches of Lanzarote and Gran Canaria already dead from their hopeless journeys. Now living in Egypt I am a foreign worker in a country that is 90% Muslim. My first hand experience has shown me that the religion can be a central part of someone`s life and benefit society at large. At a simplistic level, it means we do not really have any petty crime. There is no theft or burglary and the absence of alcohol means a clear reduction in violent crime. The vast majority of Muslims here are tolerant, friendly and lovely people. I feel that they would prefer you to be Christian than atheist because they realise that it is the same God that they worship. How so many of them manage to answer the call to prayer (first one at 3.30am at the moment, and yes it does sometimes wake me up!) and fast during Ramadam, no food or drink, when we are in the Sahara can only be admired in my opinion! We all know that there are extremists who choose to interpret the Qu`ran differently and divisively but most Muslims revile such people. The Muslim community in Britain is obviously much newer and many of the problems that they encounter are due to ignorance, suspicion and misunderstandings of British people. I lived and worked in a multi-cultural environment in West Yorkshire for more than ten years and I know that education on both sides can solve most of these problems. I know that I am idealistic but I passionately believe that we are all equal and one of the things that I love about Britain is our tolerant multi-cultural history. We must preserve from vitriolic villains like nick griffin`s goons. Mike, I do actually agree with some of what you've wrote. Islamic culture does have some very admirable qualities.There is a selflessness, loyalty and sense of identity within Islamic society that I've always admired.But I'll stand by my belief that it isn't compatible with our liberal democracy. What concerns people in Britain is the way that Islam seems to have asserted it's authority in parts of the country -and no this isn't just down to a militant few, A recent poll shows that a large percentage of muslims would want to see Sharia Law imposed in certain areas of Britain. At the same time this government is doing everything it can to appease muslims - no doubt in a vain attempt to claw back their support from the Lib-Dems and Galloway's Respect Party.The Iraq war must of cost Blair a few hundred thousand votes -I bet. You say that many of the problems muslims encounter in Britain is down to the ignorance, suspicion and misunderstandings of British people..... really ? That's one heck of a sweeping statement to make -Do you have any evidence to back your claim up? As far as I can tell -if most Brits are ignorant about anything -it's multiculturalism (now that's an oxymoron if ever I've heard one) and Islam. The amount of times I've heard the 'peaceful and tolerant religion' line from people who obviously take our politicians and media at their word. Btw, How does multiculturalism go down in Egypt? I take it you and your wife play by the old 'when in Rome' rule?
|
|
salopboy
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 183
|
BNP
Apr 27, 2006 22:19:18 GMT 1
Post by salopboy on Apr 27, 2006 22:19:18 GMT 1
Ever since 9/11 the media and political spin on Islam has nearly always been along the lines of ..... Islam is a religion of peace, similar to Christianity and it's teachings have simply been twisted by a small number of hardliners in order to further their own goals. - This is utter nonsense. there's fundametalists in all religions, christian, jew etc, you look at america and the pro lifers who go and shoot dead doctors who perform abortians...think if you go back through history the core cause of most conflicts is religion...good old st george didn't pop off on the crusades just for a bit of sight seeing. Fair one mate - but here in the West, Christian terrorists aren't exactly two-a-penny. America has all kinds of trigger-happy fruitcakes from militant goths to alien death cults - so as for gun slinging pro-lifers? - mmm, only in America! The most militant Christianity gets here in Blighty would be a few placard waving blue-rinsers gathered outside a showing of 'Jerry Springer- the opera' - thank God! As for the Crusades - they happened many centuries ago. Today's Christianity in Britain is of the nice, tame, fluffy, variety The wellspring for almost all global terrorism right now is Islam.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
BNP
Apr 27, 2006 23:35:50 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2006 23:35:50 GMT 1
there's fundametalists in all religions, christian, jew etc, you look at america and the pro lifers who go and shoot dead doctors who perform abortians...think if you go back through history the core cause of most conflicts is religion...good old st george didn't pop off on the crusades just for a bit of sight seeing. Fair one mate - but here in the West, Christian terrorists aren't exactly two-a-penny. America has all kinds of trigger-happy fruitcakes from militant goths to alien death cults - so as for gun slinging pro-lifers? - mmm, only in America! The most militant Christianity gets here in Blighty would be a few placard waving blue-rinsers gathered outside a showing of 'Jerry Springer- the opera' - thank God! As for the Crusades - they happened many centuries ago. Today's Christianity in Britain is of the nice, tame, fluffy, variety The wellspring for almost all global terrorism right now is Islam. What about Christian Tony, your genocide causing enemy?
|
|
|
BNP
Apr 27, 2006 23:23:25 GMT 1
Post by Ta se bem pa on Apr 27, 2006 23:23:25 GMT 1
Couple of points:
Flash Gordon, it's the 21st century, although you do seem to be stuck in the 20th (circa 1939.....)
Salopboy, the word "multiculturalism" can't be an oxymoron. Here's a dictionary definition;
"A paradox reduced to two words, usually in an adjective-noun ("eloquent silence") or adverb-adjective ("inertly strong") relationship, and is used for effect, to emphasize contrasts, incongruities, hypocrisy, or simply the complex nature of reality. Examples: wise fool, ignorantly learned, laughing sadness, pious hate, non-racist BNP supporter" (Sorry, I made that last one up).
Also, the past participle of the verb "to write" is "written". For example, "it was WRITTEN" or "I do actually agree with some of what you've WRITTEN"
Honestly, I know Iraqis with a better grasp of the English language.
Anyway, as a Brit currently living in Portugal, I can definitely relate to a lot of what Mike said in his excellent post. Due to the proximity and close ties between Spain and Portugal, every day we're bombarded with news stories about the thousands of people attempting to enter Spain via Morrocco (little known fact in the UK: Spain actually has two land borders with Morrocco in Ceuta and Melilla, Spanish territories on the Morroccan mainland, thereby making it a target destination not only for Morroccans but other Africans who have illegally travelled to Morrocco in order to get to Europe. Spanish people often refer to their country as "la puerta de Africa") many of whom head to Portugal due to its low cost of living. However, Spain is not just being flooded with African immigrants. There's also over 400,000 Brits there, less than 5% of whom can speak Spanish. Talk about disrespecting the local culture.
I don't know any exact statistics for Portugal, but the Algarve has suffered a similar problem as the Costa del Sol, with Brits arriving by the boatload. The large cities are also receiving a lot of immigration and, unlike Britain, Portugal is ill equipped to cope with it, you only have to look at favela style shanty towns like Cova da Moura in Amadora or areas of Chelas, Lisbon to see the effects.
The reason I bring this is up is to point out that British people should calm down about immigration. It's not out of control, it's more in control than most places in Europe, and besides, immigrants are an essential part of our economy, providing a huge chunk of our workforce (particularly in areas like the construction industry, or the NHS) so stopping them coming in doesn't really make sense. Admittedly, in the light of the Charles Clarke situation, it seems that we could do with being stricter on who can stay but bear in mind the fact that it was 1,000 people over 7 years and most of them should only have been considered for deportation, rather than automatically deported. All immigrants to this country can't be tarred with the same brush. Look at the Joe Geeling or Andrew Walker cases. Are we to believe that everybody from the North West is a brutal murderer because of them? I think not.....
|
|
|
BNP
Apr 28, 2006 7:28:19 GMT 1
Post by indianwells on Apr 28, 2006 7:28:19 GMT 1
"The Royal Navy will police the territorial limit and prevent all foreign fishing fleets entering British waters by force if required" Now THAT one I like.
|
|
|
BNP
Apr 28, 2006 8:48:40 GMT 1
Post by mikeinsheff on Apr 28, 2006 8:48:40 GMT 1
[/quote] Mike, I do actually agree with some of what you've wrote. Islamic culture does have some very admirable qualities.There is a selflessness, loyalty and sense of identity within Islamic society that I've always admired.But I'll stand by my belief that it isn't compatible with our liberal democracy.
What concerns people in Britain is the way that[glow=red,2,300] Islam seems to have asserted it's authority in parts of the country[/glow] -and no this isn't just down to a militant few, [glow=red,2,300]A recent poll[/glow] shows that a large percentage of muslims would want to see Sharia Law imposed in certain areas of Britain. At the same time this government is doing everything it can to appease muslims - no doubt in a vain attempt to claw back their support from the Lib-Dems and Galloway's Respect Party.The Iraq war must of cost Blair a few hundred thousand votes -I bet.
[glow=red,2,300]You say that many of the problems muslims encounter in Britain is down to the ignorance, suspicion and misunderstandings of British people..... really ? That's one heck of a sweeping statement to make -Do you have any evidence to back your claim up?[/glow]
As far as I can tell -if most Brits are ignorant about anything -it's multiculturalism (now that's an oxymoron if ever I've heard one) and Islam. The amount of times I've heard the 'peaceful and tolerant religion' line from people who obviously take our politicians and media at their word.
Btw, [glow=red,2,300]How does multiculturalism go down in Egypt? I take it you and your wife play by the old 'when in Rome' rule?[/[/glow]
|
|
salopboy
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 183
|
BNP
Apr 28, 2006 9:54:31 GMT 1
Post by salopboy on Apr 28, 2006 9:54:31 GMT 1
Couple of points: Flash Gordon, it's the 21st century, although you do seem to be stuck in the 20th (circa 1939.....) Salopboy, the word "multiculturalism" can't be an oxymoron. Here's a dictionary definition; "A paradox reduced to two words, usually in an adjective-noun ("eloquent silence") or adverb-adjective ("inertly strong") relationship, and is used for effect, to emphasize contrasts, incongruities, hypocrisy, or simply the complex nature of reality. Examples: wise fool, ignorantly learned, laughing sadness, pious hate, non-racist BNP supporter" (Sorry, I made that last one up). Also, the past participle of the verb "to write" is "written". For example, "it was WRITTEN" or "I do actually agree with some of what you've WRITTEN" Honestly, I know Iraqis with a better grasp of the English language. Anyway, as a Brit currently living in Portugal, I can definitely relate to a lot of what Mike said in his excellent post. Due to the proximity and close ties between Spain and Portugal, every day we're bombarded with news stories about the thousands of people attempting to enter Spain via Morrocco (little known fact in the UK: Spain actually has two land borders with Morrocco in Ceuta and Melilla, Spanish territories on the Morroccan mainland, thereby making it a target destination not only for Morroccans but other Africans who have illegally travelled to Morrocco in order to get to Europe. Spanish people often refer to their country as "la puerta de Africa") many of whom head to Portugal due to its low cost of living. However, Spain is not just being flooded with African immigrants. There's also over 400,000 Brits there, less than 5% of whom can speak Spanish. Talk about disrespecting the local culture. I don't know any exact statistics for Portugal, but the Algarve has suffered a similar problem as the Costa del Sol, with Brits arriving by the boatload. The large cities are also receiving a lot of immigration and, unlike Britain, Portugal is ill equipped to cope with it, you only have to look at favela style shanty towns like Cova da Moura in Amadora or areas of Chelas, Lisbon to see the effects. The reason I bring this is up is to point out that British people should calm down about immigration. It's not out of control, it's more in control than most places in Europe, and besides, immigrants are an essential part of our economy, providing a huge chunk of our workforce (particularly in areas like the construction industry, or the NHS) so stopping them coming in doesn't really make sense. Admittedly, in the light of the Charles Clarke situation, it seems that we could do with being stricter on who can stay but bear in mind the fact that it was 1,000 people over 7 years and most of them should only have been considered for deportation, rather than automatically deported. All immigrants to this country can't be tarred with the same brush. Look at the Joe Geeling or Andrew Walker cases. Are we to believe that everybody from the North West is a brutal murderer because of them? I think not..... Oh no -not another Grammar Nazi Like most other people here, I've probably dropped no end of grammatical clangers and made typos, spelling mistakes aplenty. This is a messageboard for Christ's Sake -People tend to write more off the cuff. But especially for you -I'll promise to be more careful. ...and oh yeah, to most people who've really experienced it, Multi -Culturalism IS an oxymoron. Multiculturalism might well be 'exciting and enriching' in the eyes of the liberal-left chattering classes ( who more often than not, live nowhere near a multicultural area) but the reality experienced by mainly working class Britons is nothing like the rot spouted by the Guardian reading red wine socialists. .....Just keep wearing those rose-tinted specs. Putting it blunt- Britain is full up.We're living on an overcrowded Island and there's simply no more room for anyone else.It's time to shut the door now. You can carry on talking about the benefits all you like -but you're in the minority. The overwhelming majorty of the British public want much tougher controls on immigration and -over half us want an imediate halt to it. There are an estimated 500,000 illegals living in the UK.Who knows how many criminals or would-be terrorists are amongst that number? I'd suggest to anyone who's unsure where they stand on immgration and FORCED multiculturalism - to do what I've had to do in the past -Go live amongst it and find out for yourself just how wonderful the multiculturalst's definition of 'diversity' really is. .
|
|
salopboy
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 183
|
BNP
Apr 28, 2006 10:28:13 GMT 1
Post by salopboy on Apr 28, 2006 10:28:13 GMT 1
Salopboy:- I know that Islam has asserted itself in certain parts of the country. Pakistanis tend not to have to much choice about where they live as most of them need to be near to a mosque, obviously, and they are often at the bottom of the pile in terms of income so they end up itogether in poor rented accomodation. And a recent poll suggests 57% of polls are fictional . . Evidence of misunderstandings? You`ve asked the wrong person. I`ve seen all sorts of crazy things and some extremely sad things too experienced whilst working with parents, students, police, and many external agencies. I`ve been stuck in the middle of fights that have escalated into large scale disorder involving gangs made up of opposing races and I`ve had pupils and ex-pupils die in terrible racial conflict situations. I am not exaggerating. These experiences have involved students from a plethora of countries. I know that most of these problems begin with misunderstandings that could often be avoided with patience, listening and education and this is something I passionately believe. Muslims seem to suffer most in these situations as their culture is not as easy for brits (and others) to comprehend. Don`t really understand your last bit. Many of the students I teach are `multi-cultural`, a mixture of egyptian and other nationalities. My arabic is still rather poor but we try to respect the culture here as best possible. Is that what you mean? Sabbah i kheer! (sp?!) Oh salopboy, i love the way you reply to your own posts. You haven`t actually said how islam is incompatible with western life. And what exactly is your experience with muslims, or have you just read a pamphlet? [/quote] You're totally wrong Mike - actually that recent poll revealed that 63% of polls are fictional I've worked and lived places such as Leeds, London, Bradford.Not as a teacher but as a builder.When your schoolday finished what kind of house did you go home to?What kind of street was it? What was the area like? You've said you and your wife are both teachers in West Yorkshire- I'd hazard a guess it wasn't the same kind of places where I used to rent digs. I''ve heard similar lines from other teachers, social workers, outreach workers, social- engineers etc -But come the evening most middle-class liberals usually of the luxury of retreating back to their nice, comfortable leafy suburbs. If any pro 'mult-culti' thinks what I've said is 'extreme' -then they want to get out there a little more.Try listening to what many working-class people are saying in the pubs or the work place. Islamic and Western societies do clash - it's a fact of life and can be backed up almost every time you switch on the news. But you still can't see that ? Ok, here's one for you- where do women rate in most Islamic societies?
|
|
|
BNP
Apr 28, 2006 13:48:39 GMT 1
Post by guest on Apr 28, 2006 13:48:39 GMT 1
Alright, I admit it, I was winding you up, the grammar points were a bit pedantic but if you're having a go at immigrants for not learning our language and respecting our culture, it does look a bit hypocritical if you make key mistakes in your own English. I don't want to dwell on this but the word "multiculturalism" is not an oxymoron, and contunuing to nonsensically refer to it as one merely detracts from your argument. Also, I don't think the argument that all teachers are "wine drinking middle class liberals" who live in the leafy suburbs really stands up to scrutiny. I don't know what Mike's situation in the UK was but I do know that being a teacher in the state system hardly guarantees a massive salary. Besides, teaching is a highly vocational job, with many people going in to the profession alruistically to help educate those in poor areas. Teachers are a vital component of the future of our nation so having a go at them is probably not a smart move.
"I'd suggest to anyone who's unsure where they stand on immgration and FORCED multiculturalism - to do what I've had to do in the past -Go live amongst it and find out for yourself just how wonderful the multiculturalst's definition of 'diversity' really is."
Interestingly enough, as well as Shrewsbury and Lisbon, I've also lived in Birmingham and, more importantly, worked voluntarily as an English teacher in two state schools in Curitiba, South Brazil, which is a truly multicultural society ("FORCED multicultuaralism"? Not quite sure what that means but you can't get much more "forced" than the 4,000,000 African slaves brought to Brazil by the good old British and Portuguese empires) Despite that country's high crime rate and huge social inequalities, it's undeniable that, amongst the overwhelmingly miscegenated poor, there exists a massive sense of racial unity (the concept of racial democracy, created by the writer Gilberto Freyre, is enshrined in Brazilian national identity), problems instead being caused by the corruption and economic discrimination of the ruling classes. I think that what you need to do is take a leaf out of polishkaz's book and realise that while there are a few problems in this country, we enjoy an extremely high standard of living, particularly in comparison with those in the third world. Why do you think so many people want to come here in the first place? So get the bee out of your bonnet, stop moaning, and try and do something positive instead.
|
|
|
BNP
Apr 28, 2006 15:35:26 GMT 1
Post by mikeinsheff on Apr 28, 2006 15:35:26 GMT 1
Salopboy -
Your posts are now rather garbled and meandering.
I`ve answered what you asked me and you`ve failed to acknowledge that.
I do know what I`m talking about and I appear to have much more experience than you in such matters and now you`ve wandered towards some other half-arsed idiotic notion that you have.
zzzzzzzzzzz
|
|
|
BNP
Apr 28, 2006 15:47:00 GMT 1
Post by indianwells on Apr 28, 2006 15:47:00 GMT 1
IF EVERYONE IGNORES THIS POST IT WILL DISAPPEAR!!! THERE IS NO POINT IN EVEN HAVING THIS DEBATE WITH IDIOTS SUCH AS SALOPBOY. btw I'm on to you salopboy.... Link------> salopboy Your Avatar could be construed as something awfully dodgy mate. Not for me to say what though........ahem.
|
|
|
BNP
Apr 28, 2006 15:48:46 GMT 1
Post by kuliloach on Apr 28, 2006 15:48:46 GMT 1
IF EVERYONE IGNORES THIS POST IT WILL DISAPPEAR!!! THERE IS NO POINT IN EVEN HAVING THIS DEBATE WITH IDIOTS SUCH AS SALOPBOY. btw I'm on to you salopboy.... Link------> salopboy Your Avatar could be construed as something awfully dodgy mate. Not for me to say what though........ahem. ;D
|
|
|
BNP
Apr 28, 2006 15:56:14 GMT 1
Post by indianwells on Apr 28, 2006 15:56:14 GMT 1
Your Avatar could be construed as something awfully dodgy mate. Not for me to say what though........ahem. ;D That's better!
|
|
|
BNP
Apr 28, 2006 16:06:31 GMT 1
Post by kuliloach on Apr 28, 2006 16:06:31 GMT 1
;D Best not to risk it!
|
|
|
BNP
Apr 28, 2006 17:08:08 GMT 1
Post by ianwhit on Apr 28, 2006 17:08:08 GMT 1
Link------> local electionscouple of bnp candidates in there, both live in the big bnp house in meole
|
|
|
BNP
Apr 28, 2006 17:34:37 GMT 1
Post by rob on Apr 28, 2006 17:34:37 GMT 1
Salopboy-a lot of social workers are probably paid worse than you are as a builder.
Tell us honestly, are you just p**sed off (i have a mate who certanly is) because you find yourself out of job due to foreign labourers being taken on a daily basis and paid cash in hand?
Its strange how you believe yourself to have a greater understanding than teachers, social workers, social engineers etc, people who are actively involved with the community on a daily basis, when in all reality you are confined to the building site, with a number of lesser educated mortals consumed with the "facts" that you read in the Mail, the sun and the daily star.
Tell me how exactly you are in a better position to judge?
Also please tell me what makes you think that these liberals (working for the state, and usually being paid significantly less than comparable positions in the private sectors) are all wealthy and living in middle class suburbia?
You have not address my concerns apropos the BNP manifesto, or explained to me how economic nationalism can work in the long term? If we pulled out of the EU, who would buy our exports (they would be more expensive having been made in Britain and in all reality would be subject to trade barriers)
You also haven't tackled the my argument that the BNP manifesto bares a stark resemblence to the Nazi state in the 1930s?
Have you even read the manifesto?
|
|
salopboy
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 183
|
BNP
Apr 28, 2006 17:40:35 GMT 1
Post by salopboy on Apr 28, 2006 17:40:35 GMT 1
Alright, I admit it, I was winding you up, the grammar points were a bit pedantic but if you're having a go at immigrants for not learning our language and respecting our culture, it does look a bit hypocritical if you make key mistakes in your own English. I don't want to dwell on this but the word "multiculturalism" is not an oxymoron, and contunuing to nonsensically refer to it as one merely detracts from your argument. Also, I don't think the argument that all teachers are "wine drinking middle class liberals" who live in the leafy suburbs really stands up to scrutiny. I don't know what Mike's situation in the UK was but I do know that being a teacher in the state system hardly guarantees a massive salary. Besides, teaching is a highly vocational job, with many people going in to the profession alruistically to help educate those in poor areas. Teachers are a vital component of the future of our nation so having a go at them is probably not a smart move. "I'd suggest to anyone who's unsure where they stand on immgration and FORCED multiculturalism - to do what I've had to do in the past -Go live amongst it and find out for yourself just how wonderful the multiculturalst's definition of 'diversity' really is." Interestingly enough, as well as Shrewsbury and Lisbon, I've also lived in Birmingham and, more importantly, worked voluntarily as an English teacher in two state schools in Curitiba, South Brazil, which is a truly multicultural society ("FORCED multicultuaralism"? Not quite sure what that means but you can't get much more "forced" than the 4,000,000 African slaves brought to Brazil by the good old British and Portuguese empires) Despite that country's high crime rate and huge social inequalities, it's undeniable that, amongst the overwhelmingly miscegenated poor, there exists a massive sense of racial unity (the concept of racial democracy, created by the writer Gilberto Freyre, is enshrined in Brazilian national identity), problems instead being caused by the corruption and economic discrimination of the ruling classes. I think that what you need to do is take a leaf out of polishkaz's book and realise that while there are a few problems in this country, we enjoy an extremely high standard of living, particularly in comparison with those in the third world. Why do you think so many people want to come here in the first place? So get the bee out of your bonnet, stop moaning, and try and do something positive instead. I'm not knocking teachers at all and I certainly don't intend to go down that "prolier than thou" road - but it must recognized that up until now it has mainly been inner-city dwelling, working-class Britons who've experienced the very worse that multiculturalism has had to offer. Speak to some old Eastender or former Handsorth resident, who's fled to somewhere like Shropshire, about their experience of multiculturalism - It might sound very different to any article you've read in the Guardian relating to this topic.
|
|
|
BNP
Apr 28, 2006 17:46:22 GMT 1
Post by WindsorShrew on Apr 28, 2006 17:46:22 GMT 1
" Speak to some old Eastender, who's fled to somewhere like Shropshire. Stop Press Pauline Fowler settles in nicely to Telford slum..
|
|
salopboy
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 183
|
BNP
Apr 28, 2006 17:53:13 GMT 1
Post by salopboy on Apr 28, 2006 17:53:13 GMT 1
IF EVERYONE IGNORES THIS POST IT WILL DISAPPEAR!!! THERE IS NO POINT IN EVEN HAVING THIS DEBATE WITH IDIOTS SUCH AS SALOPBOY. btw I'm on to you salopboy.... Link------> salopboy Kuliloach, you're in great danger of sounding a like bit of liberal-fascist (there you go, another oxymoron) and you might run the risk of looking like someone who'd rather kill a debate than someone who's able to credibly counter one. Btw, What's the picture of a tattooed bicep and the "I'm on to you salopboy" line all about? I'll admit it's a bit worrying. A threat of violence maybe - or some kind of homo-eroticism? Sorry to disapoint you -but I'm into neither
|
|
|
BNP
Apr 28, 2006 17:59:28 GMT 1
Post by kuliloach on Apr 28, 2006 17:59:28 GMT 1
IF EVERYONE IGNORES THIS POST IT WILL DISAPPEAR!!! THERE IS NO POINT IN EVEN HAVING THIS DEBATE WITH IDIOTS SUCH AS SALOPBOY. btw I'm on to you salopboy.... Link------> salopboy Kuliloach, you're in great danger of sounding a like bit of liberal-fascist (there you go, another oxymoron) and you might run the risk of looking like someone who'd rather kill a debate than someone who's able to credibly counter one. Btw, What's the picture of a tattooed bicep and the "I'm on to you salopboy" line all about? I'll admit it's a bit worrying. A threat of violence maybe - or some kind of homo-eroticism? Sorry to disapoint you -but I'm into neither No threat of violence or sexual assault Just thought that I had tracked down picture of you. I am just aware that this debate is starting to go in circles and I can't see anyone showing you the light and restoring your faith in the future
|
|
salopboy
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 183
|
BNP
Apr 28, 2006 18:13:31 GMT 1
Post by salopboy on Apr 28, 2006 18:13:31 GMT 1
Salopboy - Your posts are now rather garbled and meandering. I`ve answered what you asked me and you`ve failed to acknowledge that. I do know what I`m talking about and I appear to have much more experience than you in such matters and now you`ve wandered towards some other half-arsed idiotic notion that you have. zzzzzzzzzzz This is thread about the BNP and politics -and although it hasn;t been my intention, it has (inevitably I suppose) drifted into other areas such as Islam, Christianity, multiculturalism and immgiration. I talk through, insight, personal experience what I've read on the above topics. Although all subject cannot be debated properly in one thread (even though they are all inextricaby linked) at least they ARE being debated. In a healthy, free-thinking society -matters concering mmigration, multiculturalism and Islam should never be 'off-topic'. I'm not alone either - the majority of people in this country think the same. People ask why are the BNP appear to be gaining ground in some parts of the country - I think some of the answer lies within this thread. Until we have the guts to debate openly and honestly about these matters -the BNP will around for some time to come.
|
|