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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 11:14:31 GMT 1
Post by rob on Apr 26, 2006 11:14:31 GMT 1
How exactly is the NHS going down the pan? Is it because hospital trusts are now beiung made accountable for coming in over budget, allbeit in a cckhanded manner? 0.7% about £700million, undoubtedly a lot of money has been thrown at the NHS, and a lot spent unwisely, but too suggest that the NHS is in crisis is surely like suggesting that we are being over by foreigners who are taking our homes (which i think you will find are actually being bought up by middle class people as second homes and as part of the buy to let boom) Surely according to your beliefs, our troops are safeguarding Britain, by taking the fight to Islamic terrorists... Why should our troops be on British soil, there is no civil unrest, the characteristics of European conflict have moved on since 1939, we'd be merely wasting more tax payers money having troops sitting around doing nothing on a perminant basis. To base an argument on one Koran quote is stupidity personified. If you actually read the Koran, 95% of it is promoting peaceful relations, the last 5% which because of the contentious origins of the text is about fighting back and more aggressive. However this was supposedly written at about the time they were being persecuted. And its debatable as to whether this was said by The Prophet Muhammed. A lot of anti-islamic scriptures are written quoteing Hadiths, which are not part of the Koran, they are supposed sayings of the Prophet, but of course anyone can misuse and mis quote these, as they are in all probability a myth. "Those who follow the jewsish [scriptures]...and the Christians and any who believe Allah and work rightiousness can go to paradice." Koran Sura 5. The retranslated Saudi version: " How about these quotes, notice the difference: "Jews and Christians would only go to paradice if they believed in Allah and worked rightiousness". Surah 5. A perfect example of how the Koran can be abused, much like the Bible to suit ones own beliefs. As you can see in its origional form the verse is as liberal as anything the Bible offers, if not more so. Hate filled religion my arse
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 11:14:56 GMT 1
Post by rob on Apr 26, 2006 11:14:56 GMT 1
Try not to dodge this point....
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 11:33:22 GMT 1
Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Apr 26, 2006 11:33:22 GMT 1
Rob, basing your view of the koran on a Western education has problems
out of Koranic thought comes shariah law, which operates in many hardline Muslim states.
If the death penalty for moving away from the Islamic faith and few rights for women are your idea of a free society then you are welcome to it.
until this century Islam only really spread by conquest, hence there is plenty in the Koran about aggresive expansion and how to subjugate people. The Islam we see in this country is westernised, in some cases fairly modern and palatable because UK mulsims have been very successful at modernising the religion to become integrated in a democracy, which of course is a very good thing.
Go back to Islamic states and you see a more oppresive version of Islam because it is in complete control of the Imams.
So your hardline islamic states like Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, northern provices of Nigeria and Sudan are a very different proposition to both western Islam and moderate Islamic states like Egypt or Turkey (technically not, but in practice is).
The problem we have in the UK is young british muslims going off to the hardline states and having their heads filled with all sorts of stuff, or foreign hardliners being allowed to use UK mosques as a platform.
That is the issue we face in the UK, the two islamic cultures clashing with each other, and we don't quite know which one is "real" Islam.
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 11:39:32 GMT 1
Post by downy on Apr 26, 2006 11:39:32 GMT 1
and such is the power of the BNP
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 11:47:16 GMT 1
Post by polishkaz on Apr 26, 2006 11:47:16 GMT 1
salopboy,
your pro BNP anti Islamic views should not be supressed, please by all means continue to rant and rave. The more people hear your views the better judgment they can make, thats what politics is all about. We can but all hope that those who have the right to vote listen to exactly what the BNP stands for, i think youll find most hard working well informed people will place there support elsewhere. Yes some will agree with there anti immigration policies and such like but i find it very hard to believe they will ever recieve sufficient support to make any sort of mark on this fine country.
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 11:53:40 GMT 1
Post by rob on Apr 26, 2006 11:53:40 GMT 1
The problem is though Dave, we are overlooking the moderate form of islam, by concentrating on the the extreme elements. back to the thread in hand Salopboy, have a quick study of facism, has strange parralells with the Nazi state, al beit dressed up in todays modern language... Great economic nationalism, the price of goods will rise, MNC will leave the country. Unemployment will rise, unless of course the government subsidise the business' in order to cover the added costs that would come with paying decent wages to british workers, covering the inefficientcy and of course covering the increased costs of material and production.... All in all meaning that the tax payer will in the long run end up poorer... You honestly believe Economic Nationalism will in the long term make Britain richer? Please explain to me how And here is the punchline: yes many governments in the third world are corrupt and inept, however this should not detract from the reality that the trade barriers imposed upon many third world countries act to keep the populations of these countries in poverty. Of course AThird world countries could be encouraged to open up their economies to foreign direct investment, but please take the time salopboy to explain to me how foreign direct investment has exactly helped third world economies (particularly in Africa) thrive??? I await your answers with much anticipation
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 12:26:14 GMT 1
Post by Minor on Apr 26, 2006 12:26:14 GMT 1
Excuse my ignorance, but isn't unemployment at its lowest for quite some time? Now then Ant steady on, depends what figures you choose to believe When you see all the job cuts in the NHS, the cuts in the manufacturing industry etc etc it makes me wonder somewhat as to what the real figures are, and also I personally think that the figures of people IN employment should state how many are full time positions/ part time positions and also how many people are working in the private/ public sector I feel that would make really interesting reading.
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salopboy
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 183
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 12:38:59 GMT 1
Post by salopboy on Apr 26, 2006 12:38:59 GMT 1
How exactly is the NHS going down the pan? Is it because hospital trusts are now beiung made accountable for coming in over budget, allbeit in a cckhanded manner? 0.7% about £700million, undoubtedly a lot of money has been thrown at the NHS, and a lot spent unwisely, but too suggest that the NHS is in crisis is surely like suggesting that we are being over by foreigners who are taking our homes (which i think you will find are actually being bought up by middle class people as second homes and as part of the buy to let boom) Surely according to your beliefs, our troops are safeguarding Britain, by taking the fight to Islamic terrorists... Why should our troops be on British soil, there is no civil unrest, the characteristics of European conflict have moved on since 1939, we'd be merely wasting more tax payers money having troops sitting around doing nothing on a perminant basis. To base an argument on one Koran quote is stupidity personified. If you actually read the Koran, 95% of it is promoting peaceful relations, the last 5% which because of the contentious origins of the text is about fighting back and more aggressive. However this was supposedly written at about the time they were being persecuted. And its debatable as to whether this was said by The Prophet Muhammed. A lot of anti-islamic scriptures are written quoteing Hadiths, which are not part of the Koran, they are supposed sayings of the Prophet, but of course anyone can misuse and mis quote these, as they are in all probability a myth. "Those who follow the jewsish [scriptures]...and the Christians and any who believe Allah and work rightiousness can go to paradice." Koran Sura 5. The retranslated Saudi version: " How about these quotes, notice the difference: "Jews and Christians would only go to paradice if they believed in Allah and worked rightiousness". Surah 5. A perfect example of how the Koran can be abused, much like the Bible to suit ones own beliefs. As you can see in its origional form the verse is as liberal as anything the Bible offers, if not more so. Hate filled religion my arse I haven't based my whole arguement on one quote.Islam has it's very roots in terrorism and Muhammad (who's life and teachings were as far removed from that of Christ's as you could get), was a bloodthirsty warrior who preached hatred and slayed and enslaved thousands within in his lifetime. The Koran actually instructs it's followers to do the same. The word 'Islam' means "submission", the word Muslim means "one who submits to Allah" What does the Koran say about those who refuse to submit -The real Koran that is- not the nice, fluffy Penguin version. "Those who reject Islam must be killed.If they turn back (from Islam), take (hold of) them and kill them wherever you find them" -Surah 4:89 "Take not the Jews and Christians as 'Auliya' (friends, protectors, helpers), they are but Auliya of each other.And if any amongst you takes them (as Auliya), then surely he is one of them" -Surah 5:51. Islam's ultimate goal is to establish Islamic authority over the whole world.Islam is not just a religion, it's a goverment too.That's why Islamic political systems must be based on Allah's teachings and nothing else.
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salopboy
Midland League Division Two
Posts: 183
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 12:50:27 GMT 1
Post by salopboy on Apr 26, 2006 12:50:27 GMT 1
salopboy, your pro BNP anti Islamic views should not be supressed, please by all means continue to rant and rave. The more people hear your views the better judgment they can make, thats what politics is all about. We can but all hope that those who have the right to vote listen to exactly what the BNP stands for, i think youll find most hard working well informed people will place there support elsewhere. Yes some will agree with there anti immigration policies and such like but i find it very hard to believe they will ever recieve sufficient support to make any sort of mark on this fine country. Although I support much of what the BNP stand for -I'll leave it for BNP themselves to fight their own corner -I'm voicing my own personal concerns, that happen to overlap alot of the BNP's. As I've said, I'm not " anti-Islamic" - I just happen to be aware of fact that, in it's true form, Islam is not compatible with our Western way of life. You can accuse me of just ranting and raving -that's fine but it'd be even better if you could credibly counter my arguement instead. Cheers
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 13:03:54 GMT 1
Post by Jonah guest on Apr 26, 2006 13:03:54 GMT 1
The Charles Clarke issue today sums up most peoples worries over immigration.
Why oh why are we so soft as a nation to let this happen?
Immigrant murderers,rapist and thugs free to roam our streets when they shouldnt have been here in the first place.
Rob tell me how many times 'death to the infidel' or similar is quoted in the Koran.
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 13:13:31 GMT 1
Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Apr 26, 2006 13:13:31 GMT 1
Rob tell me how many times 'death to the infidel' or similar is quoted in the Koran. and according to the Koran what should happen to you if you refuse to convert to islam?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 13:19:17 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2006 13:19:17 GMT 1
Rob tell me how many times 'death to the infidel' or similar is quoted in the Koran. and according to the Koran what should happen to you if you refuse to convert to islam? Is this a Wednesday afternoon quiz?
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 13:20:36 GMT 1
Post by downy on Apr 26, 2006 13:20:36 GMT 1
Rob tell me how many times 'death to the infidel' or similar is quoted in the Koran. and according to the Koran what should happen to you if you refuse to convert to islam? do you go bang??
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 13:28:49 GMT 1
Post by indianwells on Apr 26, 2006 13:28:49 GMT 1
The BNP would crawl back under the stones from whence they came if the mainstream parties acted on the concerns being voiced by ordinary white,black,brown and yellow Britons.By being frightened to death of offending minorities our Political Elite are in danger of enraging the majority.
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 13:37:34 GMT 1
Post by jontifree on Apr 26, 2006 13:37:34 GMT 1
i have no problem with imagration, but this country has no discretion as to who comes or goes Very true The Aussies & Kiwis have a very good system in place whereby you have to be able to offer something to the Country before you are accepted, whether that be skills or investment. Having gone through the system myself here (my wife is from the Czech Republic and we got married before they joined the EU) I know what a farce it is. We did it properly, all the correct documents, stamps, fees, proofs of relationship etc. etc. The people we saw at the immigration office was truly shocking. Only a small percentage could speak a word of English, often pregnant or with large families already. We queued for over 6 hours to be interviewed like criminals (they ask everything) while people who could not speak English had their papers stamped almost immediately because the people working there couldn't get hold of translators. The system does not work as it is, border controls do not work. Something needs to be done and very soon. So, yes, you could say I agree with some of the BNP policies but they go too far. The Country needs a change and a strong leader. On another note, it is not just a problem in this country. Since joining the EU, the Czech Republic is getting over-run with Ukrainians who come though almost un-guarded Polish borders. Of course, once they get access to Poland they can travel very freely around the EU.
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 13:42:49 GMT 1
Post by indianwells on Apr 26, 2006 13:42:49 GMT 1
i have no problem with imagration, but this country has no discretion as to who comes or goes Very true The Aussies & Kiwis have a very good system in place whereby you have to be able to offer something to the Country before you are accepted, whether that be skills or investment. Having gone through the system myself here (my wife is from the Czech Republic and we got married before they joined the EU) I know what a farce it is. We did it properly, all the correct documents, stamps, fees, proofs of relationship etc. etc. The people we saw at the immigration office was truly shocking. Only a small percentage could speak a word of English, often pregnant or with large families already. We queued for over 6 hours to be interviewed like criminals (they ask everything) while people who could not speak English had their papers stamped almost immediately because the people working there couldn't get hold of translators. The system does not work as it is, border controls do not work. Something needs to be done and very soon. So, yes, you could say I agree with some of the BNP policies but they go too far. The Country needs a change and a strong leader. On another note, it is not just a problem in this country. Since joining the EU, the Czech Republic is getting over-run with Ukrainians who come though almost un-guarded Polish borders. Of course, once they get access to Poland they can travel very freely around the EU. At last!!Someone with first hand experience of our ridiculous immigration system.Of course if I or others had said that we would have been jumped on and labelled racist!
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 13:52:15 GMT 1
Post by shrewslander on Apr 26, 2006 13:52:15 GMT 1
I'm British and I'm Proud, I wouldn't let anyone stay in my house that had no right to be there, even if they applied to live in my house legally i'd certainly refuse their application. Therefore as far as the town i live in and the country i live in, they belong to us, should we let people into our country that has no right to be here? The answer is NO, should we pay for them through our taxes to be fed and sheltered? The answer is NO! Should we let them steel our jobs, home etc? the answer is NO! The ones already living here its a bit late to deal with them now but we can still deal with th ones attempting to get in and lets face it Britain is overcrowded as it is. [img src="http://www.shropshire.btinternet.co.uk/smiley/ www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/mad/mad0223.gif"].gif [/img] This is what i feel is happening Tony Blair "Please do come in, welcome, heres some food,some money, we don't mind honest, here have this corner shop and this wonderful sportscar!" immigrant "Thanking you sir" Tony Blair "No problem don't forget to ring your family, they can come too!" I find it disturbing too. [/quote] What do you think of Brits who have moved/work abroad, should it be allowed or should they be kicked out? over 15million brits have left these shores for good since 1901
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 14:14:26 GMT 1
Post by downy on Apr 26, 2006 14:14:26 GMT 1
I'm British and I'm Proud, I wouldn't let anyone stay in my house that had no right to be there, even if they applied to live in my house legally i'd certainly refuse their application. Therefore as far as the town i live in and the country i live in, they belong to us, should we let people into our country that has no right to be here? The answer is NO, should we pay for them through our taxes to be fed and sheltered? The answer is NO! Should we let them steel our jobs, home etc? the answer is NO! The ones already living here its a bit late to deal with them now but we can still deal with th ones attempting to get in and lets face it Britain is overcrowded as it is. [img src="http://www.shropshire.btinternet.co.uk/smiley/ www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/mad/mad0223.gif"].gif [/img] This is what i feel is happening Tony Blair "Please do come in, welcome, heres some food,some money, we don't mind honest, here have this corner shop and this wonderful sportscar!" immigrant "Thanking you sir" Tony Blair "No problem don't forget to ring your family, they can come too!" I find it disturbing too. [/quote] oh my god are you for real??? nahhhh your doing it for a bet aint ya???
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 14:19:11 GMT 1
Post by flash gordan on Apr 26, 2006 14:19:11 GMT 1
Did they moved to a overcrowded country? NO
Where we 3rd world citizens moving to another country to drain its resources? NO
We were part of a empire that ruled the world, we were explorers at the time as well as traders and invaders, we were attcaked for invading, now they are invading us and we are letting them do it.
Its the 20th Century now, not the Victorian era.
We tried to help those countries with new technology, science etc. We visited and we were met with resistance. They are not helping us by invading us, what do they bring to our society apart from desease, anger, crime and most of all future genocide. They are feeding of us and it will be our destruction. So yes we migrated and made no mans land a country USA, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa. The size of those countries we havent exactly over populated them. Our little island is to overcrowded. We havent exactly overcrowded the middle east either, they done it themselves. Now there target is us for a place to live, well i wont stand for it!
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 14:21:51 GMT 1
Post by downy on Apr 26, 2006 14:21:51 GMT 1
Did they moved to a overcrowded country? NO Where we 3rd world citizens moving to another country to drain its resources? NO We were part of a empire that ruled the world, we were explorers at the time as well as traders and invaders, we were attcaked for invading, now they are invading us and we are letting them do it. Its the 20th Century now, not the Victorian era. We tried to help those countries with new technology, science etc. We visited and we were met with resistance. They are not helping us by invading us,! I'm not sure anybody was talking about the past , but about what is happening Now...................has very little to do with finding a potatoe
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 14:32:28 GMT 1
Post by flash gordan on Apr 26, 2006 14:32:28 GMT 1
What do you think of Brits who have moved/work abroad, should it be allowed or should they be kicked out? over 15million brits have left these shores for good since 1901 |
Those 15 million Brits have gone to places like Canada, Australia, New Zealand and USA, countries that we colonised and created because they were no mans land a handfull of tribes. Hardily any population. So why do we get targeted when we are overcrowded, because we give handouts and our government lets it happen. We need a new government, a BNP gorvernment!
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 14:35:36 GMT 1
Post by downy on Apr 26, 2006 14:35:36 GMT 1
ooops A BNP gov is just a tad strong tho IMO, if they ever came to power my son would be removed from our country
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 14:43:26 GMT 1
Post by shrewslander on Apr 26, 2006 14:43:26 GMT 1
What do you think of Brits who have moved/work abroad, should it be allowed or should they be kicked out? over 15million brits have left these shores for good since 1901 |
Those 15 million Brits have gone to places like Canada, Australia, New Zealand and USA, countries that we colonised and created because they were no mans land a handfull of tribes. Hardily any population. So why do we get targeted when we are overcrowded, because we give handouts and our government lets it happen. We need a new government, a BNP gorvernment! Germany, France, Japan, Sweden, India, Norway, South Africa, Spain the list of counties that Brits live in stretches all around the world, that's the joy of it we can. Stop people coming here or throwing people out then it has to work the other way too. Why ? because it's nothing to do with colour is it?
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 14:51:59 GMT 1
Post by rob on Apr 26, 2006 14:51:59 GMT 1
I dont know lads, maybe about as often as women are either degraded in the Bible or shown in a negative light. Christianity, the religion of hypocracy
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thenotoriousfbsoffline
Guest
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 15:38:41 GMT 1
Post by thenotoriousfbsoffline on Apr 26, 2006 15:38:41 GMT 1
Without wishing to sound like the yuppy on Only Fools and Horses in that episode... 'Let me run this by you'... When Bulgaria joins the EU it is estimated that at LEAST 80,000 Bulgarians will be flocking un-hindered to the UK. So how many Turks will be arriving if they become EU members? Also, it has been estimated (I have lost the web url) that over 2.5million Poles have arrived in the UK in the last 18-months? The same BBC website pronounced that the south of England had more new-arrival Poles than the capital of f******g Warsaw
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 15:43:15 GMT 1
Post by indianwells on Apr 26, 2006 15:43:15 GMT 1
Without wishing to sound like the yuppy on Only Fools and Horses in that episode... 'Let me run this by you'... When Bulgaria joins the EU it is estimated that at LEAST 80,000 Bulgarians will be flocking un-hindered to the UK. So how many Turks will be arriving if they become EU members? Also, it has been estimated (I have lost the web url) that over 2.5million Poles have arrived in the UK in the last 18-months? The same BBC website pronounced that the south of England had more new-arrival Poles than the capital of f******g Warsaw 2.5 million!!!!!!!!!Who's estimate is that then,David Icke's?
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 15:46:14 GMT 1
Post by Daviimo on Apr 26, 2006 15:46:14 GMT 1
This has got to be the biggest windup thread ever. So many people with different veiws biting, but lets make one thing clear we are being invaded and it sucks!
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thenotoriousfbsoffline
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 15:46:16 GMT 1
Post by thenotoriousfbsoffline on Apr 26, 2006 15:46:16 GMT 1
Errr no sunshine. The BBC produced figures from the Home Office.
notworthy
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 15:48:21 GMT 1
Post by Daviimo on Apr 26, 2006 15:48:21 GMT 1
Anti immigration protests at Trafalgar Square in June!
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BNP
Apr 26, 2006 17:01:07 GMT 1
Post by kuliloach on Apr 26, 2006 17:01:07 GMT 1
This has got to be the biggest windup thread ever. So many people with different veiws biting, but lets make one thing clear we are being invaded and it sucks! If you are not a wind up do yourself a favour and jump off a bridge.
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