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Post by wiganshrew2 on May 21, 2005 11:01:47 GMT 1
It was after that incident in Widnes- kids throwing a plank at a funeral car.
There's all sorts of theories- but I was talking to one of my colleagues about it. She's working inthe school as a Nursery Nurse- very sensible person, and she and her husband set high standards of behaviour for their children, insist on homework being done, ground them and withdraw privileges if they really misbehave badly.
Yet she's having a lot of trouble with her son. He's 12 and has become really difficult and has tantrums if his parents try to set limits or insist on homework being done. He's also getting in trouble at school.
She thinks part of the trouble is that a lot of his friends at school have immature mothers, on their own, and they allow their sons to do whatever they like, becausethey can't control them. Then there's a lot of "peer pressure" involved. They laugh at anyone whose parents set limits.
Approval from the peer group means a lot to kids and they hate being ridiculed.
One of my grandsons gave my daughter and son-in-law a lot of trouble a year ago because of this sort of influence; he has "grown up" a bit since.
Most kids don't get out of control to the extent that they'd throw planks at a funeral car. Children from caring and responsible homes tend to come round to the sort of standards they were given, and stand a beter chance of getting through a rebellious phase and turning out O.K.
But there ARE a lot of irrresponsible parents. There was on in our local paper, single mother with 6 children, clearly can't cope. Her 9 year-old son is on the last stage before an ASBO- and she's in the paper, saying that he's only a normal 9 year old who likes to run around with his friends!!!!!!!! It's a big social problem, and I don't know what the answer is.
Also- in some sections of society, they think that nobody but your own family have the right to tell you what to do. I know this for sure- because I've actually heard one of these battling mothers say it!!!!!
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Post by Shrews and Royals on May 21, 2005 11:07:38 GMT 1
Ah....but Wiggy.....you missed the main point.... It doesn't matter what the parent(s) are like....it's obviously the teachers fault again! After all when was it ever down to the parent(s) to educate about behaviour, respect, sex, tolerance etc.... Chuck the kids into school and complain when the school asks for the parent to come in address the issues, after all the school is supposed to educate the whole person these days! While we are at it we will also have to teach about banking, insurance, general house maintainance, basic cooking, otherwise how can we have produced educated children. Has to be down to the teachers....easy to blame....
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Post by SeanBroseley on May 21, 2005 11:29:01 GMT 1
Wasn't there an incident recently where mourners leapt out of cars coming back from a funeral and raided a petrol station?
Its the growing polarisation in society - kids and petrol stations on the one side and on the other the Co-Op and people dressed in black.
The time will come when we will all have to decide which side we are on.
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Post by MeoleShrew nli on May 21, 2005 11:30:41 GMT 1
I know its not down to the teachers, why? the next crop of troublemakers here don't go to school, well not till 3pm to see thier mates, it like a right off passage, a new crop tend to appear here every two years, aided by the sad imature 18/20 yr olds who like to buy them cigarettes and booze, in all fairness the group has got smaller, there used to be 10-15 of them now its down to about 6, the next school holiday is a week away and we will wait for the squad cars to turn up as boredom sets in, The problem is not however totally at the parents door, peer pressure, fitting in, lack of intelligence the later being the root cause of the problem, where school is not the answer for these kids but finding an education of sorts that suits them would alleviate most of thier problems, coupled with the right help and people to listen to them.
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Post by wiganshrew2 on May 21, 2005 12:48:06 GMT 1
You're right- it's not all the parents' fault, they can't cope- and it is a lot of peer pressure.
As my friend from my school finds, even intelligent parents find it hard going when there's so much peer pressure.
My grandson once said, "I want to be thick like my mates!!" This is an intelligent lad- he reads books about History for fun, and has the capacity for intelligent discussion. But his "thick" mates have more fun and freedom, he thought!!!!!! It certainly isn't teachers. Even the teachers in Key Stage 1 (The "Infants") find it hard going, some of the kids come into school cheeky and uncooperative. They answer back- and we hear them answering their Mums back after school. I think some parents have also lost confidence. They can't smack, even as a last resort, and they don't know what else to do.
I think teachers are working within a system that isn't working for every child- and yes, some young people would do much better with less academic work and more vocational opportunities, I'm sure.
I tend to think that it's the worst examples that hit the headlines, though. Only a very small minority would be so lacking in feeling to attack a car with mourners in.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2005 13:09:23 GMT 1
You need a license to drive a car You need a passport to travel abroad. But any ****ing idiot can have a kid.
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Post by Dicky Knee on May 21, 2005 13:31:55 GMT 1
My grandson once said, "I want to be thick like my mates!!" This is an intelligent lad- he reads books about History for fun, and has the capacity for intelligent discussion. But his "thick" mates have more fun and freedom, he thought!!!!!! quote] I'm very proud of my 12 year old daughter's achievements at school. She is in "set 1" in all subjects bar one, in which she is in "set 2". I always praise her when she does well. However, one week ago, she complained that she didn't want to be "one of the boffs" any more because the "thickos" had more fun. Luckily, I caught it early, had an intelligent conversation with her, listing the pros and cons between "boffs" and "thickos". She has now returned from the "dark side".
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Post by MeoleShrew nli on May 21, 2005 14:09:45 GMT 1
You need a license to drive a car You need a passport to travel abroad. But any ****ing idiot can have a kid. Actually Ant your wrong, there are people I know who were thugs, spent time in prison, turn out that a child is the making of them and they go on to be perfect parents, there is no golden rule that suggests who would and who wouldn't be good parents, how do you teach love, kindness and most of all the abilitiy to listen, understand and work out problems together with a child, most of these chldren could be helped just by talking to them, giving them your time etc.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2005 14:15:33 GMT 1
Don't worry my initial post wasn't entirely a serious one, just playing devil's advocate. That said - having a driving license doesn't make you a good driver either
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Post by MeoleShrew nli on May 21, 2005 14:18:59 GMT 1
. That said - having a driving license doesn't make you a good driver either A trip to Sainsburys this morning confirms that you are completely correct men and big cars
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Post by Dicky Knee on May 21, 2005 19:00:13 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2005 19:18:06 GMT 1
As I can't stand Man Utd and Arsenal I went to Tescos this afternoon.... .....Women and 4 Wheel Drives Did you mean to say 'women and 4 wheel cars'
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Post by skunkie on May 21, 2005 19:41:58 GMT 1
It all really lies in your upbringing,how you have respect for people,yourself and others property,not so long ago people did not blame their social condition,the lack of money.they just got on with life.if you are set a lot of good examples of the above the next generations will be more sensible in their attitudes.When you see young mothers hitting and swearing at a toddler hardly old enough to understand speech than our country has a problem.I think too many families get started before the parents have time to grow up and learn these lessons as well.
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