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Post by pawlo on Apr 4, 2005 15:23:06 GMT 1
From the BBC website Judge upholds vote-rigging claims A judge investigating vote-rigging in Birmingham's local elections has ruled there was widespread fraud and has ordered new elections. Election Commissioner Richard Mawrey QC upheld allegations of postal fraud relating to six seats won by Labour in the ballot of 10 June last year. The results have been declared void and the polls in two wards must be rerun. An absolute disgrace. These people must be kicked out of the Labour Party and should get a spell in prison. Regardless of your political persuasion, these ex councillors have brought our democrasy into disropute and must be punished severely.
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Post by meoleshrew2 on Apr 4, 2005 15:30:47 GMT 1
Totally agree
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Post by theriverside on Apr 4, 2005 15:45:36 GMT 1
I'm all for every voter having the best chance to use it but postal/interactive votes are open to widespead fraud as voted. Barring a postal vote if you are on holiday (like I will be on May 5th ) the ballot box should be the only method used. If your vote means anything to you, then you will make the effort to cast it.
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Post by meoleshrew2 on Apr 4, 2005 15:50:37 GMT 1
I'm all for every voter having the best chance to use it but postal/interactive votes are open to widespead fraud as voted. Barring a postal vote if you are on holiday (like I will be on May 5th ) the ballot box should be the only method used. If your vote means anything to you, then you will make the effort to cast it. Its sad that people don't feel it important enough to vote, I do wonder if more people would vote if an extra option was put on the ballot paper, none of the above, would be very interested to see the outcome?
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Post by pawlo on Apr 4, 2005 16:09:57 GMT 1
Its sad that people don't feel it important enough to vote, I do wonder if more people would vote if an extra option was put on the ballot paper, none of the above, would be very interested to see the outcome? Agreed. I think it is a sad reflection on our politicians (of all parties ), that people seem to be just so disallutioned with the process of government, that they just cant be bothered to spend 1 minute out of one day, to put an x on a piece of paper. Having said that, if the differences between the parties was more clearly visible than it is, again people might be more inclined to vote. We have had democrasy for so long i think people take it for granted, what a contrast to the recent events in Iraq, where people risked being blown up, shot or beaten to cast their vote.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2005 16:18:54 GMT 1
I'll probably be using the postal vote option for this years election. This scandal gives me one less reason to vote Labour though
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Post by theriverside on Apr 4, 2005 16:21:07 GMT 1
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Post by rob on Apr 4, 2005 16:46:06 GMT 1
Unfortunatly a FPTP system offers the electorate very little to choose from, especially when people live in a constituency that is dominated by a particular party.
I understand peoples mentality, after all in the North Shropshire region if you are anti conservative you're vote is effectively wasted as the last election showed when a great deal of anti-Conservative votes were balloted (basically voted for Labour) yet still Owen Patterson came out with a healthy majority...
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Post by theriverside on Apr 4, 2005 16:50:59 GMT 1
But PR would just result in a hung parliament 9 times out of 10 wouldn't it?
Although it would stop the 're-arrangement' of boundaries that ruling parties always seem to bring in after elections to preserve their majorities in the next vote........................
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Post by siabod on Apr 4, 2005 16:55:51 GMT 1
" the ballot box should be the only way" says Riverside (never could do quotes) Hard luck on the infirm who have no way of getting to the ballot box, and what about todays news that people in prison are possibly to be allowed to vote as missing out takes away their rights ?
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Post by pawlo on Apr 4, 2005 16:58:32 GMT 1
"that people in prison are possibly to be allowed to vote as missing out takes away their rights ? FFS i thought that was the point of sending them to prison Barmy idea, WHOEVER came up with it.
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Post by theriverside on Apr 4, 2005 16:59:35 GMT 1
" the ballot box should be the only way" says Riverside (never could do quotes) Hard luck on the infirm who have no way of getting to the ballot box, and what about todays news that people in prison are possibly to be allowed to vote as missing out takes away their rights ? Yes there should be a proxy/postal system Siabod (as I posted so dont selectively quote please) but it clearly needs to be controlled properly and is certainly not a valid replacement to the ballot box - which was the Labour plan alongside interactive voting.............
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 4, 2005 17:00:22 GMT 1
Never thought I'd see the day this type of thing were going on in England...I really didn't. A sad day indeed...
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Post by SeanBroseley on Apr 4, 2005 17:06:45 GMT 1
I have some knowledge about local Labour party politics in Birmingham - this isn't a surprise at all.
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Post by The Beancounter on Apr 4, 2005 17:26:52 GMT 1
Guess who may be spending a fair bit of time working at Birmingham City Council in the very near future
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Post by Guest on Apr 4, 2005 17:33:41 GMT 1
I thought Cynical Shrew was a cert to have contributed to this thread by now.
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Post by john on Apr 4, 2005 17:55:33 GMT 1
I thought Cynical Shrew was a cert to have contributed to this thread by now. I could of sworn he just posted on here The Prince of Cynicalness
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Post by MarkRowley on Apr 4, 2005 19:27:16 GMT 1
Sadly if the present way of postal balloting continues to be adopted without being seriously tightened this criminal act will not be an isolated incident The councillors in Brum were able to take advantage of the system to collect massive number of votes from family & community members (as far as I am aware they were all from registered voters) and then lodge them to ensure their candidate(s) were successful. I remember there was disquiet in the local press at the time as to some of the results - obviously with good reason. Whilst Labour members have been caught this time and it has involved large numbers of Asian votes/Asian councillors, it would be very naive to think this is the only way in which it has been or would be used. You can bet that if someone cottons on to a way in which they think they could collect hundreds of votes from blue-rinse wrinklies in marginal Tory seats in the home counties they would do the same Blair needs to get his finger out for a change and do something about this asap, otherwise further unjust election results will undoubtedly occur.
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Post by theriverside on Apr 4, 2005 20:07:29 GMT 1
My father-in-law has been here for the evening, and was telling me of suspected fraud in Walsall as well.
He stood as a Labour candidate there last year, and there were signs (in his view) that Conservatives were picking up large blocks of votes in the same manner as the Labour candidates have done in Birmingham.
The system will NEVER work better than the ballot box method.
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Post by rob on Apr 4, 2005 21:07:35 GMT 1
PR doesnt necessarily lead to unstable governments.
A hung parliament may infact be more democratic, as one party no longer dominates Parliament and thus can ram through legislation at will.
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Post by ShrewsAde on Apr 4, 2005 21:40:53 GMT 1
scandellous
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Post by UK Shrew on Apr 4, 2005 23:09:15 GMT 1
Respect for Sister Pab for highlighting this very worrying development, how on earth could this have been allowed to happen in the UK? The six guilty Labour councillors are : Shafaq Ahmed, GUILTY Shah Jahan, GUILTY Ayaz Khan, GUILTY Mohammed Islam, GUILTY Muhammed Afzal, GUILTY Mohammed Kazi. GUILTY Notice anything that connects these candidates together? Maybe something about these six names that stand out but you can't quite put your finger on it!
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Post by john on Apr 4, 2005 23:14:45 GMT 1
We all know excatly what your getting at and the wagging finger should be at you Doesnt matter what colour they are pal, they did wrong and by rights should be punished.
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Post by Thomas Payne on Apr 5, 2005 7:31:24 GMT 1
Respect for Sister Pab for highlighting this very worrying development, how on earth could this have been allowed to happen in the UK? The six guilty Labour councillors are : Shafaq Ahmed, GUILTY Shah Jahan, GUILTY Ayaz Khan, GUILTY Mohammed Islam, GUILTY Muhammed Afzal, GUILTY Mohammed Kazi. GUILTY Notice anything that connects these candidates together? Maybe something about these six names that stand out but you can't quite put your finger on it! Didn't notice any 'Asian' involvement in Florida when Jeb Bush stole the Presidential election for his extremest brother. Care to comment?
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 5, 2005 8:03:16 GMT 1
We all know excatly what your getting at and the wagging finger should be at you Doesnt matter what colour they are pal, they did wrong and by rights should be punished. Its inevitable that folk are going to look at those involved and the communities from which they come...and I'll be honest enough to say that includes meself...
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Post by blue 44 on Apr 5, 2005 9:50:36 GMT 1
Respect for Sister Pab for highlighting this very worrying development, how on earth could this have been allowed to happen in the UK? The six guilty Labour councillors are : Shafaq Ahmed, GUILTY Shah Jahan, GUILTY Ayaz Khan, GUILTY Mohammed Islam, GUILTY Muhammed Afzal, GUILTY Mohammed Kazi. GUILTY Notice anything that connects these candidates together? Maybe something about these six names that stand out but you can't quite put your finger on it! It is worth pointing out that its notjust that the Asian community are the perpetrators but the victims Members of their own community have stolen their own votes The Government is totally complacent on this issue which is outrageous they wouldnt even put up a spokesman to defend it on the radio this morning-- and the riverside if your father in law has eveidence he has a duty to go to the police now!
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Post by pawlo on Apr 5, 2005 9:58:41 GMT 1
The six guilty Labour councillors are : Shafaq Ahmed, GUILTY Shah Jahan, GUILTY Ayaz Khan, GUILTY Mohammed Islam, GUILTY Muhammed Afzal, GUILTY Mohammed Kazi. GUILTY Notice anything that connects these candidates together? Maybe something about these six names that stand out but you can't quite put your finger on it! Yes, i do notice something, they are all, by definition, british citizens. The reason i raise the subject is that i, unlike some biggotted nobs who post on here, see a crime as a crime, be it committed by blacks, whites, asians or whatever. I dont spend all day trying to think of ways of carsticating sections of the community based upon the colour of their skin.
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Post by john on Apr 5, 2005 10:06:24 GMT 1
Pab
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Post by theriverside on Apr 5, 2005 11:24:52 GMT 1
and the riverside if your father in law has eveidence he has a duty to go to the police now! I think it was more a very strong suspicion without any concrete evidence - otherwise I'm sure there would have been action taken.
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Post by Ratcliffesghost on Apr 5, 2005 11:59:13 GMT 1
I'm still considering a legal challenge to the vote rigging in the "Is bitter better than lager" poll on here 12 months ago
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