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Post by Steve Rogerson on Feb 6, 2005 1:34:15 GMT 1
I have now read the glossy four-page flyer the ShrewsTrust people were handing out before today's match and I am still none the wiser about exactly what a supporters' trust is. With living so far away from Shrewsbury, I can't make next week's meeting so I won't be able to ask the people setting up this thing what it is they are proposing, but I get the impression that it is potentially important and I must admit I am dubious about trusting something like this to people who can spend four pages plugging their plan without explaining it properly (let alone not even knowing the basic rule of English that a proper noun has a capital letter at the start).
I hope that the meeting decides to delay setting this up until we have organisers with the basic competence to inform the rest of us what it is about. From that leaflet, that is clearly not the case at the moment.
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Post by rob on Feb 6, 2005 1:51:27 GMT 1
very very harsh. I dont know who wrote the flyer, but I do know that there have been about 3/4 people who have spent the last couple of weeks reading up, contacting other supporters trusts and trying to begin setting up the supporters trust all whilst doing their every day jobs. If you want to know more go to the supporters direct website and download the pdf file (about 153 pages). This details everything you'd ever want to know about a supporters trust from tax related issues, to fundraising, membership, aims and aspirations etc... To the people who compiled the flyer, pm me next time (in advance) and I'll get my mother to proof read the flyers (as thats her job As ants special on the bottom of his posts say "so many people are moaners, so few doers"
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2005 1:55:02 GMT 1
There has been an amazing amount of effort put into the research etc of a possible setting up of the Supporters Trust in recent months by a group of people who are keen to improve supporters' involvement in the club and improve the club as a whole.
If you don't understand what the possible trust is about and feel there are improvements with regarding the publicising of this etc then please get involved Steve.
I'm certain there are contact details on the leaflet and that the group who have set up the open meeting on Wednesday would love to hear your comments.
However I'm not sure what will be achieved by slating them in public like you have, seems very harsh to me.
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Post by peterjones1 on Feb 6, 2005 1:56:00 GMT 1
very very harsh. I dont know who wrote the flyer, but I do know that there have been about 3/4 people who have spent the last couple of weeks reading up, contacting other supporters trusts and trying to begin setting up the supporters trust all whilst doing their every day jobs. If you want to know more go to the supporters direct website and download the pdf file (about 153 pages). This details everything you'd ever want to know about a supporters trust from tax related issues, to fundraising, membership, aims and aspirations etc... To the people who compiled the flyer, pm me next time (in advance) and I'll get my mother to proof read the flyers (as thats her job As ants special on the bottom of his posts say "so many people are moaners, so few doers" Spot on sir. I didn't get a flyer myself but knowing those involved in it's production and the on-going development of the supporters trust, I am more than willing to place my trust in them to make it a success. To question their 'basic competence' is simply ludicrous and very very unfair.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Feb 6, 2005 6:24:05 GMT 1
Don't place your trust in the people, place some of your time at their disposal.
Let's be clear what the meeting this wednesday is about - it is seeking a resolution to explore the supporters trust proposition further and draw further people into that process.
Then people give up their free time to put the meat on the bones and come back to another meating to actually launch the thing.
In the meantime Steve Rogerson has access to the internet and so to the material on the supporters' direct website.
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Post by Steve Rogerson on Feb 6, 2005 9:17:17 GMT 1
My point is that there is nothing in that flyer that makes me want to become involved. What is wrong with them having a clear statement right at the start saying what a supporters' trust is? It is a nice looking flyer that doesn't do the job it is meant to.
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Post by carsonshrew on Feb 6, 2005 10:06:19 GMT 1
As an English teacher, I am fully aware of how bad it looks when people fail to proof-read their work properly. However, to judge the efforts of the people involved in shrewsTRUST, based on the omission of a capital letter, seems a little harsh. Incidentally, the supporters behind the launch are articulate, educated people who would be mortified to learn of this error. They have sacrificed a huge amount of their time to ensure everything is right for Wednesday. They are in regular contact with Supporters Direct. They have travelled the country to see examples of good practice at other league clubs. They have persuaded current and former players to give their full support to the cause. Anyone listening to Radio Shropshire or Beacon in recent weeks, or reading the Shropshire Star, will know that the shrewsTRUST team have worked hard to publicise Wednesday's meeting, hopefully encouraging Town fans from all over the county to get involved. With regards to the flyer, one whole page is dedicated to describing '10 things a supporters' trust is'. And as my fellow 'posters' have pointed out, if none of the '10 things' provide a clear enough description, maybe Steve should check out the following links: www.shrewsburytown.premiumtv.co.uk/page/News/NewsDetail/0,,10443~617153,00.html www.supporters-direct.org/Steve Rogerson clearly has the 'competence' to access this message board, and post on it, yet seems to have failed to notice the shrewsTRUST thread on the opening page. blueandamber.proboards22.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1106390270Even if this does not answer his questions, there are specific shrewsTRUST email addresses listed for him to use to voice any concerns. Perhaps he should have considered doing this before using this forum as a means of insulting the people who want to establish the trust for no other reason than for the good of our club.
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Post by Steve Rogerson on Feb 6, 2005 11:05:40 GMT 1
However, to judge the efforts of the people involved in shrewsTRUST, based on the omission of a capital letter, seems a little harsh. I see you miss it out too. If you read my post, you would see that not having a capital letter at the start of ShrewsTrust was an aside. The failure to explain what it is was my main gripe. With regards to the flyer, one whole page is dedicated to describing '10 things a supporters' trust is'. And as my fellow 'posters' have pointed out, if none of the '10 things' provide a clear enough description, maybe Steve should check out the following links: www.shrewsburytown.premiumtv.co.uk/page/News/NewsDetail/0,,10443~617153,00.html The problem is that those ten things do not say what a supporters' trust is, just claim to. Surely, a simple 20 word explanation at the start of the flyer saying what it is they are talking about should not have been beyond the capabilities of the people who want our trust to set up this thing.
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Post by carsonshrew on Feb 6, 2005 11:16:55 GMT 1
I see you miss it out too. If you read my post, you would see that not having a capital letter at the start of ShrewsTrust was an aside. The failure to explain what it is was my main gripe. The problem is that those ten things do not say what a supporters' trust is, just claim to. Surely, a simple 20 word explanation at the start of the flyer saying what it is they are talking about should not have been beyond the capabilities of the people who want our trust to set up this thing. I miss it out because that's the way the logo has been designed. This is what they have decided to call themselves. I am sure that if enough people are outraged about this then a capital S will be added at the start. It's about design rather than a deliberate grammatical error. I appreciate where you're coming from, I just don't like your tone. I think that there are less patronising ways to express one's opinion.
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Post by rob on Feb 6, 2005 12:26:36 GMT 1
dont see the problem with it to be honest talk about nit picking
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Post by harmerhillshrew on Feb 6, 2005 12:26:42 GMT 1
Harsh, Steve Rogerson. If you read the leaflet and check out the web links you can get an idea where this Trust thing is coming from. As for capital letters what about adidas, does not seem to do them any harm. And the web page link at the bottom of your posts features a page with sci fi on it. Should it not be Sci-Fi of Science Fiction. I have know idea as I only gained a Grade 4 at CSE for English Come on Steve, these people are fans who just want to put something back into the club, I think an email to the address on the leaflet would have been more productive.
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Post by timgallon on Feb 6, 2005 12:34:07 GMT 1
Sod it, lets just forget the whole thing becasue there some minor error of the English language I think the part of the leaflet entitled "10 Things a Supporters Trust is" gives you an indication of what its about. It seems fairly obvious to me. Steve if you got queries that fine, address them to those concerend but there isint the need for such a patronising and negative post.
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Post by Steve Rogerson on Feb 6, 2005 12:36:37 GMT 1
Sci fi is not a proper noun but ShrewsTrust is. And "Adidas" is the correct way to write that too.
I wish I hadn't mentioned the grammatical error (as I said, it was only an aside), my main problem is the flyer itself. This was the big opportunity to get the fans on their side and they produce a leaflet that 90 per cent of the people in the ground looked at and probably said WTF is that, and chucked it away.
If they want to get people involved in this, then they have to explain why they should be. That flyer failed to do that. They seem to have put in a lot of effort, no one is saying they haven't, but then to squander a chance like that really does make me question their competence.
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Post by mattsnapper2 on Feb 6, 2005 12:44:39 GMT 1
shrewsTRUST is a label, a design, a visual logo - just like shrewsWEB Id of preferred ST2 - Shrewsbury Town Supporters Trust - ie STx2 but people said it sounded like a phone company and would be beyond some peoples brains. shrewsTRUST sounds like a wildlife foundation - whatever, but we shall move on... but to harp on about having a capital 'S' is beyold all relms of critical analysis and nit picking to the highest degree. If you accept it is a noun, then your spelling of ShrewsTrust is WRONG as you should have put a space inbetween, thus you are conceeding the name shrewsTRUST as a brand or trademark Eg - the Amsterdam ArenA , adidas, shrewsWEB ------------ in defence of Steve, he is asking a question which still hasn't been answered. AND how many times have people spouted crap on here when a simple email to whitters would have done the business..... glass houses and all that
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Post by timgallon on Feb 6, 2005 12:46:21 GMT 1
I didnt see too many on the floor walking into the Meadow or ont he terraces.
We'll see how many people got the message on Wednesday. If no one turns up then maybe your comments are valid.
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Post by carsonshrew on Feb 6, 2005 13:01:01 GMT 1
I've had another look at the flyer, specifically at the '10 things a Supporters' Trust is'. Basically the co-ordinators have given people very general ideas about the aims of the trust, as that's all 15 supporters representing the views of thousands of Town fans can do at this stage.
There are 122 Trusts in the country and every single one has different aims and objectives.
The aim of Wednesday night's meeting is to gain a mandate for establishling a Trust for Shrewsbury Town and to take details of interested parties who will form a working group.
One of the responsibilities of the working group will be to form the constitution of shrewsTRUST. A draft constitution is supplied by Supporters Direct and the working group can alter it for Shrewsbury Town as they see fit.
It is unfortunate that you are unable to make Wednesday night's meeting, however you could always email your ideas to info@shrewstrust.com (and even register your vote here). This way you can actually have a say on what form the Supporters' Trust will take.
N.B. I am not a co-ordinator of shrewsTRUST, I just support their good intentions.
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Post by faginy on Feb 6, 2005 13:50:17 GMT 1
thanks carsonshrew
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2005 14:05:04 GMT 1
It is not for the few people who have put a lot of time, money and effort into organising the Open Meeting on Wednesday to tell you what the Shrewsbury Town Supporters Trust will be about.
It will be for the members of any such Trust to decide that.
Steve - I've seen your views on the Shrews mailing list about your disappointment that the New Meadow will not initially have a fit-for-purpose supporter's bar. Maybe this would area would be something you would like your Supporter's Trust to be about?
Fine to raise the questions. I cannot understand the negativity though.
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Post by Parker on Feb 6, 2005 14:53:45 GMT 1
Well I just hope people put as much effort into the important matters, once the Trust is up and running, as they have into deciding what it should be called!
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Post by meoleshrew2 on Feb 6, 2005 16:21:32 GMT 1
The supporters trust is a must, better nt ask me to write anything though, my grammer, spelling, typing, proof reading is crap, always give my backing and thoughts/ideas though and would contibute if asked even take stick for use of bad english if it mean't I could help in some way.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Feb 6, 2005 17:12:15 GMT 1
I designed that logo, using a small S for shrewsTRUST
As I sit at this computer I see my airwalk trainers, my adidas ones are in the room, as is my ellese coat.
These are brand names and using capitalisation, or lack of it, for emphasis is a widely used within marketing circles
therefore the emphasis in shrewsTRUST is the word trust, for a simple meaning, an open and democratic body with accountable finances can be trusted, and because it is a supporters trust.
You will also note that in all the press releases it has been the "provisional" title, as in the real thing will be decided by the people who end up running the Trust, not the people who raised the flag initially.
I am not precious about what logo or name is used, that is up to whoever decides, but as an idea that is where I was coming from
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Post by TonyKellysBelly on Feb 6, 2005 19:56:57 GMT 1
I have read all of the above with much interest.
Firstly, to Steve Rogerson, I'm sorry you can't make it next Wednesday,if you really are passionate about getting involved with a Supporters Trust, please get in touch. I will be more than welcome to talk to you at length about your concerns.
Secondly, the name, shrewsTRUST, this was certainly my personal choice, I could say my own idea, I could say that's my choice and that's what we are going to call it!!
However, I can't do that.
Why?
Because a Supporters Trust is not about me or any other individual. It's about all of us collectively, as supporters, our opinions are what counts.
shrewsTRUST is the current 'working title', it may be we stick with it, we won't know until all our members have voted.
Finally, I do however love the energy this thread has created, the debate, the passion that I know exists with all our suporters.
See you all on the 9th Feb at the Lord Hill
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Post by suttonshrew on Feb 6, 2005 20:18:49 GMT 1
i have first hand experience working with one of the lads who has set up the working group for the trust, and to start with i to did not know how the trust would improve the communication between the fans and the club.
However thats why there is a meeting on wednesday to explain fully how the trust will benefit the fans. I have also seen the commitment that has been put into getting the trust moving. At the end of the day the fans will decide. Like GP said in a years time the players may have changed the board may even have changed but the fans will still be the same and its about time the fans got more involved in the running of the club.
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Post by Blues in Crewe on Feb 7, 2005 2:03:22 GMT 1
Finally, I do however love the energy this thread has created, the debate, the passion that I know exists with all our suporters. See you all on the 9th Feb at the Lord Hill Whatever happens the meeting will now be in the forefront of many members and readers of the boards minds. On the basis that it has inspired a number of previous observers to post it will also get others to check out the Supporters Trust website and get them down to the meeting on Wednesday to listen to the experiences of the Supporters Trust speakers. At the moment there is no Supporters Trust for STFC the people who have volunteered their time in arranging the meeting, producing press releases for radio and local papers, producing the leaflet and the 'concept' logo HAVE created an interest they are getting the ball rolling. We are in a thankful position that there has been time to promote this meeting many clubs dont have that luxury. In some ways clubs like Telford had the situation they found themselves in as a carrot to get fans invoved we dont thankfully have that carrot. It is surely the hope that we by forming a Supporters Trust can work with the club to for example eliminate the risk of administration or maybe to have that voice on or to the board on projects like the supporters bar. The aims and objectives of the shrewsTRUST can not be outlined until there is a steering committee which in turn will not be selected unless the vote is in favour for creating a Trust for Shrewsbury I didnt work on the leaflet, but if it does leave questions unanswered then hopefully that will get people onto the websites and down to the meeting to find those answers. Personally I am at an advantage in that I was at the Supporters Trust rallying meeting at Telford Ive heard what clubs like Exeter and Chesterfield had to say in the benefits (saving of possibly) to their clubs of a Trust. I would prefer to be prepared. The forming of AFC Telford was an extreme case but it also is of 'local' media interest if any Town fan wants to know what a Trust can do for a club there is no need to look much further PS. I wasnt involved in the logo but as has been highlighted when I first saw 'shrewsTRUST' I was drawn to the emphasis on 'TRUST' (as in a Supporters Trust and in a future organisation to trust in) I think a capital 'S' and lower case 'rust' just distracts from that a little but hey if we do get the vote to set the Trust up get involved Steve its not yet set in stone
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Post by Steve Rogerson on Feb 7, 2005 9:11:50 GMT 1
Out of curiosity, is there any reason why an existing supporters club, such as the OSC for example, couldn't take on trust status rather than setting up a new body?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2005 10:12:06 GMT 1
Out of curiosity, is there any reason why an existing supporters club, such as the OSC for example, couldn't take on trust status rather than setting up a new body? Not entirely sure what you mean by 'Trust status'? What I can say is that to register itself as a Trust and to gain access to the funding and help available from the government backed Supporters Direct, it must be entirely inclusive. I don't believe any supporters group can claim to be this. There was nothing to stop the OSC, ISA, Superblues, Blue Armey, or indeed B&A from starting the ball rolling as a group on their own. If you read the literature, you will also notice the emphasis placed on the AGM, where members of the Trust board will be properly elected. This has been an element missing from all the supporter's group including the Umbrella Group.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Feb 7, 2005 10:44:07 GMT 1
But on the other hand there's nothing stopping people being members of both - in fact I'm pretty certain that the people behind this are themselves members of several different groups.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Feb 7, 2005 11:06:30 GMT 1
Out of curiosity, is there any reason why an existing supporters club, such as the OSC for example, couldn't take on trust status rather than setting up a new body? The group of people who fixed up the event at the Lord Hill included member of... OSC ALS B&A ASFC Supporters Clubs Umbrella Group For an individual group to become a trust it would effectively have to shut down, change everything and start again plus, each individual group brings its ideas and creativity into the discussion. them working together makes a wider and more vibrant Trust, rather than one with a limited view on what we can achieve whcih any supporters group will have by accident
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