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Post by rob on Feb 1, 2005 21:11:33 GMT 1
vicious cricle eh? I'm all for supporting the team, (the worst i ever do is mumble to myself about how s**te X is) However I perfectly understand when supporters lose their rag, after yet another tepid/boring/lackluster loss. However I do get the impression that you are moaning about the same people who are always moaned about who have nothing but negative things to shout. Whats new? They do it when we win, when we draw and when we lose. s**t happens, its just one of those facts of life.
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Post by SlimShandy on Feb 1, 2005 23:42:02 GMT 1
Your missing the point..... this isn't a oh not another mid table finish, its another flamin relegation battle, the battle for the bar seems to be bigger than the battle to support the players, look from the other side, look at it from a players point of view, or GP's or the board, some very vocal fans start abusing the players the first mistake they make, infact with the likes of Tolley before he has even kicked the bloody ball, I sat there on Sat cursing quite a few players, but not out loud, I am one of few where I sit to urge the players on, my comparision with the supporters bar is to show how support can work (I hope) we get a bigger bar, we do all we can to get the most out of these players that we pay every week by positive support Well thanks for insulting my intelligence by saying I'm missing the point. What is your point anyway? Most of the fans pushing for a bigger supporters bar are doing so because they are SUPPORTERS. They'll be supporting Town whatever division/league they are in - and most of them have followed Town to some dire places to see some dire games. So why are you dissing them? Yeah, the current form is rubbish, the position looks bad, but at the end of the day we can only cheer the lads on during matches. There are other issues going on as well. Unless you're suggesting we hold a prayer vigil outside GM and do nothing else, talk about nothing else, plan nothing else until results improve and we're out of harms way. As for looking at it from the other side - do you honestly think any of the players do that? I've never seen a single player standing on the riverside to empathise with the fans. Do they really go into the dressing room thinking 'I've let the fans down, I'm so ashamed'. Hell, no! That don't seem to be the attitude they have.
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Post by john on Feb 1, 2005 23:47:26 GMT 1
Slim I think you'll find that what is being said here is " That we the fans have complained in a positive manner/pro active manner about the supporters bar, yet it it not pro active to have ago at the players at the games"
The Supporters bar in this case was used as an "for instance" and NO MORE than that!
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Post by rob on Feb 1, 2005 23:49:52 GMT 1
take a look at Chester.
1600 and they are calling for the managers head.
Then have a look back at Gay meadow,
3,500+
and the supporters grumble at the match when same old same old continues.
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Post by john on Feb 1, 2005 23:52:16 GMT 1
Rob, we've already done the change of manager bit.
Even Ferguson couldnt change Quinn errors that quickly
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Post by rob on Feb 1, 2005 23:54:19 GMT 1
ah but the people still turned up under Quinns reign.
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Post by harmerhillshrew on Feb 1, 2005 23:57:46 GMT 1
Rob, we've already done the change of manager bit. So have Chester once(so far) this season
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Post by SlimShandy on Feb 1, 2005 23:58:32 GMT 1
Slim I think you'll find that what is being said here is " That we the fans have complained in a positive manner/pro active manner about the supporters bar, yet it it not pro active to have ago at the players at the games" The Supporters bar in this case was used as an "for instance" and NO MORE than that! In his original post about the bar he implied that people campaigning for the bar cared more for the bar than for the success of the team. If he's going to ""make his points"" he should actually make them, without slagging off committed fans trying to make things better for the rest of us. I mean I get peed off when all you hear is people moaning. But why not aim your shots at those people? BTW It is proactive to have a go at the players - it just depends what your aims are I'd agree it ain't helpful.
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Post by john on Feb 2, 2005 0:01:01 GMT 1
The point isnt that we are still getting 3800 each home game, its that only a percentage are not on the players backs.
Next game you are at, sit in the wakeman stand and if we are winning say 3/4-0 still hear the moans and whingers, who are not satisfied.
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Post by john on Feb 2, 2005 0:02:03 GMT 1
Slim...one point!
He is a she ;D
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Post by harmerhillshrew on Feb 2, 2005 0:04:01 GMT 1
Slim...one point! He is a she ;D Pilch told me you were a girl JP, or is that just him making mischief
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Post by john on Feb 2, 2005 0:05:27 GMT 1
Its not me who mentioned the bar, it was the wife ;D
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Post by SlimShandy on Feb 2, 2005 0:07:56 GMT 1
he...she...the gender lines get blurred on here Still think she's wrong though to use the bar as a 'for instance'.
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Post by rob on Feb 2, 2005 0:09:41 GMT 1
Money speaks loudest in football, thus our attendances are very important.
As I said there are whingers in the wakeman end (and stand) there always have been etc...
These moaners didnt stop us from going up did they?
I'm pretty sure lots of people were moaning last season, and im pretty sure there were a fair few people who spent their time moaning when we finished 9th, yet the only person they bothered was Jemson.
You cant just claim that moaners are the reason for us doing crap.
Just watch us away from home......
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Post by john on Feb 2, 2005 0:13:30 GMT 1
She just wanted to use something thats made the supporters fight for, lets their voices be heard...nothing more than that. She couldnt use the ground itself as we were always in the hands of our council at the end of the day. If more people tried to encourage the players it would be more helpful
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Post by john on Feb 2, 2005 0:16:17 GMT 1
Money speaks loudest in football, thus our attendances are very important. As I said there are whingers in the wakeman end (and stand) there always have been etc... These moaners didnt stop us from going up did they? I'm pretty sure lots of people were moaning last season, and im pretty sure there were a fair few people who spent their time moaning when we finished 9th, yet the only person they bothered was Jemson. You cant just claim that moaners are the reason for us doing cr@p. Just watch us away from home...... So what should we do then Rob? Continue to moan when we go a goal behind? Give a player hell for a bad pass? Like Gary Peters said "May is the time to ask questions, I need you to get behind us"
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Post by SlimShandy on Feb 2, 2005 0:18:27 GMT 1
Yeah but May might be too late "People are saying it's like the Great Escape season, but..." It's not as if we're too good to go down
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Post by john on Feb 2, 2005 0:20:40 GMT 1
last time we could see it coming and had we not beat Everton Im certain ratcliffe would of been ousted.
This time we are a goalscorer away from winning some games. Two years ago we were a few players with commitment away
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Post by SlimShandy on Feb 2, 2005 0:25:54 GMT 1
Yeah, that post don't make you sound like good old Keith at all Not everyone was as wise as you and saw it coming. I remember the slanging matches on this board in March 2003 between those who said we should get off Kevin's back and those who said he should be booted out. Hmmm.
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Post by john on Feb 2, 2005 0:30:44 GMT 1
Yes there wasnt many of us wanting to see him gone, but after Swansea and Boston away it was obvious all was not well. PatPending was fighting in our corner then, whatever happened to that guy? How a win on saturday will help with all this bickering ah (right come on you stupid bunch of fookers win or else) Got that out of the way...optimistic now
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Post by rob on Feb 2, 2005 2:02:03 GMT 1
And we were a commanding centre back from being at least a midtable side in 2003 And what I am saying is reguardless of what acouple of moaners od or say 9they've always been there) the good folk of shropshire are still backing the club. Just look around us Cambridge, Kidderminster, Rushden and Chester would kill for 3500+ home fans.... The supporters cant always be expected to brush over/ignore/encourage continued cr@p football (hell we were supportive the whole way in 2003). There is only so much the supporters can do. At the end of the day people would be making excuses for the players if we had to play our games behind closed doors. It seems whenever we are sh!te, the supporters are the first group to be blamed. I'd understand if we were kicking the frigging footballs, but we are not. I still maintain that if people are given something to cheer they will (thats why everyone goes, in the hope of....) The worst thing us a supporters can do is to idolaly stand/sit around as this current group of players p**s away the football league. Once is careless, twice is just plain criminal "The ultimate determinant in war is the man on the scene with a gun. This man is the final power in war. He is control" - Admiral J.C Wylie Put bluntly, it is the football players will win/lose us matches.
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Post by Minor on Feb 2, 2005 9:06:28 GMT 1
Put bluntly, it is the football players will win/lose us matches. Exaaaaaaaaaaactly
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2005 9:21:32 GMT 1
MeoleShrew - if the initial point had been along the lines of: "Some of the individuals hurling abuse at players are well out of order. If we can try and get together to improve support levels at the Meadow in a similar way to the way we have tried to put forward the need of a large supporters bar at the new ground, then that would be great" I'd have supported it 100% and guess that's what your point was.
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Post by pawlo on Feb 2, 2005 10:43:02 GMT 1
"The ultimate determinant in war is the man on the scene with a gun. This man is the final power in war. He is control" - Admiral J.C Wylie
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Post by meoleshrew2 on Feb 2, 2005 11:37:24 GMT 1
MeoleShrew - if the initial point had been along the lines of: "Some of the individuals hurling abuse at players are well out of order. If we can try and get together to improve support levels at the Meadow in a similar way to the way we have tried to put forward the need of a large supporters bar at the new ground, then that would be great" I'd have supported it 100% and guess that's what your point was. That was my point exactly. Please put it across the same way to anyone who is struggling to see it Thanks Gareth
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Post by SlimShandy on Feb 3, 2005 14:34:46 GMT 1
I'd agree with you if you put it THAT way!!
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Post by scooter on Feb 3, 2005 18:29:08 GMT 1
I am not convinced that booing makes a lot of difference to the players. I assume the people doing it feel better afterwards, but I actually see no evidence of that. All I know is it annoys me, so SHUT UP
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Post by blum on Feb 3, 2005 18:49:05 GMT 1
Flippin 'eck.... I have just read every reply to the original thread, I was hooked.. My views went one way then the other and now I am even more confused. I for one have (once under Quinns rule) booed the players off at half time (and I stand on the wakeman end but it doesn't make me a bad person).. We were playing some p**s-ant team and playing arguably some of the worst footy I had seen in 30 years. Second half they came out like a team posessed and turned it around. It must make them more determined if they know the fans are pee'ed off surely they'd want to try harder. We could debate this forever, but I am convinced that the 3500 that come week in week out wouldnt do so if they didnt want to see the town succeed, they could quite easily be like all the other tossers that swan off to Wolves, Villa, Man U, Liverpool, Leeds, Birmingham City, west Brom, Bolton (Chidley!!!), rather than standing in a sh*te ground with no bar (oops only joking), watching the team they love teeter on the edge of OBLIVION.. If we go down again how many could bear to go through that crap again? We'd be finished, plain and simple.. If GP wants to blame the fans then okay, but we were here first and I'm damn sure we'll be here long after.. THE END
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