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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2005 13:28:17 GMT 1
In my opinion, we've been wasting money on this for far too long now.
However, finally we have a manager who is likely to start developing some of the talent that is coming through the 3 year scheme.
Discuss.
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Post by ianwhit on Jan 11, 2005 14:12:24 GMT 1
is that fom U9's up?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2005 14:16:53 GMT 1
I am not sure about completely wasting money Gareth. The youth system over the last few years has certainly produced talent worthy of the 1st team but as GP has pointed out, their development seems to stop when they breakthrough- GP seems very focused on ensuring that the output from the youth system reaches its full potential. Bernard McNally, Carl Griffiths and Paul Evans were all brought through the youth ranks (not really a youth system then) and went on to play at a high level- ability wise Tolley, Edwards and Rodgers should follow them but their development has stalled for some reason under recent managers.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2005 14:28:53 GMT 1
All the way Ian.
Two questions:
a) Does the work done make Shrewsbury enough of a community club? Can we do more?
b) We've only seen Dave Edwards breakthrough in the last 5 years, and that was only after the departure of Quinn who refused to even speak to the young lad. Is that value for money? We laud our youth system, but other clubs seem to get a lot more value.
Of course I'm being devil's advocate a little here (I think a Youth system is absolutely essential) but is it fit for purpose?
It would be interesting to know GP's and the Board's views on this. Maybe you should start some kind of 'Ask GP' or 'Ask the board' feature on ShrewsWeb?
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Post by grinfish on Jan 11, 2005 14:37:11 GMT 1
Don't forget that guy we sold to Man Ure last year, he's obviously up to scratch.
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Post by SlimShandy on Jan 11, 2005 14:41:16 GMT 1
I think most fans would prefer to see home grown young talent rather then yet another journeyman pro making Town his nth club in a long list. I think they'd get a lot more pateince shown them by the fans.
The problem is though that some of these 'young stars' are out of their teens now and they still don't look liek the finished article. How many more floating, easily-clearable corners are we going to see from Tolley, for example?
I'd argue that the youth system works - but only to a point. Perhaps what we need is a finishing school?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2005 14:52:47 GMT 1
In my opinion, we've been wasting money on this for far too long now. However, finally we have a manager who is likely to start developing some of the talent that is coming through the 3 year scheme. Discuss. WASTING MONEY!!! The only reason we have not been overun by youngsters recently is because the last 2 Town managers have only brought through OUR own youngsters as a last resort (eg Murray switching to become a central defender). The notion that we have 'wasted' money on youth devlopment is true-WE HAVE'NT SPENT ENOUGH! Remember the youth set Jake wanted to install? We were gonna build up a conveyor belt of young players that would support the club-Ratcliffe quickly put pay to that. Youth devlopment is not a waste of resources it is the only way clubs like ours can survive. Be nice if actually brought some kids through instead of constantly releasing them! As football in the comunity. Brian Williams does nothing-I know for a fact Brian Williams spends his Sunday morning shopping instead of watching local kids team, like he should. Put the needs of STFC before the community (which by the by only gives a s**t about us when we have a 'big' game) Question: Would you prefer to see a STFC team made up local youngsters who have come through the ranks giving 100% and give a f**k (Examples in the last 5 years: Edwards, Rodgers, Tolley, Stephens etc) OR A team made up of fat, overpaid, lazy, 30+ mercinaries! (Recent examples Tinson, Peer, Jemson, Woan, Van Blerk, Darby, Jobling, Thompson etc) I know what my example
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Post by SlimShandy on Jan 11, 2005 14:55:18 GMT 1
A team made up of fat, overpaid, lazy, 30+ mercinaries! (Recent examples Tinson, Peer, Jemson, Woan, Van Blerk, Darby, Jobling, Thompson etc) A bit unfair on Tinson, really. Jemson and Woan, on their day had a decent amount of class between them. Ah, Kevin Jobling. The memories (shudder).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2005 15:01:37 GMT 1
A bit unfair on Tinson, really. Jemson and Woan, on their day had a decent amount of class between them. Ah, Kevin Jobling. The memories (shudder). I don't really class Jemson as lazy but he was certainly overpaid and his club tally was in double figures before he reached us. Woan-probably the most frustrating player I have seen play, a great record & left foot who was an expert from set pieces. Thing was he did'nt give a cr@p except for the 'big' games (eg Everton) in league games he was a ghost. After the Sc***horpe home game in 2003 he was dressed and in his car within 10 mins of the final whistle-I know he nearly ran me over! Tinson is just a pr@t-personal opinion. Sorry.
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Post by ianwhit on Jan 11, 2005 15:11:32 GMT 1
All the way Ian. It would be interesting to know GP's and the Board's views on this. Maybe you should start some kind of 'Ask GP' or 'Ask the board' feature on ShrewsWeb? good idea, i'll get onto it asap.... so U9's upwards is a waste and this from a man who has posted that the club don't do enough to build the club up on the community side.
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Post by Not Impressed on Jan 11, 2005 15:15:29 GMT 1
u9's and up is not a waste of time, ask Manure, Ajax etc, my best friends son plays for the u9s, or maybe 10;s now.
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Post by Minor on Jan 11, 2005 15:15:31 GMT 1
I don't really class Jemson as lazy but he was certainly overpaid and his club tally was in double figures before he reached us. Woan-probably the most frustrating player I have seen play, a great record & left foot who was an expert from set pieces. Thing was he did'nt give a cr@p except for the 'big' games (eg Everton) in league games he was a ghost. After the Sc***horpe home game in 2003 he was dressed and in his car within 10 mins of the final whistle-I know he nearly ran me over! Tinson is just a pr@t-personal opinion. Sorry.
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Post by ianwhit on Jan 11, 2005 15:25:39 GMT 1
u9's and up is not a waste of time, ask Manure, Ajax etc, my best friends son plays for the u9s, or maybe 10;s now. so does you 'best friend' think it's a waste of time?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2005 15:26:34 GMT 1
good idea, i'll get onto it asap.... so U9's upwards is a waste and this from a man who has posted that the club don't do enough to build the club up on the community side. Read my 2nd post again Whits. Does the money spent = value both in terms of: a) Bringing the club closer to the community (the recent penalty comp stuff was brilliant but is there enough of this happening) b) Providing 1st team players. On a) I genuinely don't know, on b) it's clearly 'no'. But hopefully we have the right manager to change this. There is also responsibility on the part of the board regarding this.
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Post by mattsnapper2 on Jan 11, 2005 15:33:55 GMT 1
I DONT think people understand what youth system we have. Its one of the best in the country in my opinion. Our structure of U9s upwards is good too run by the likes of Steve Biggins and Carlton Leonard etc.
It only seems a waste of time after what happened last year and then Ill be Quinn bashing again
...our youth system is our saving grace !
BTW Taffy - you are entitled to your opinion but remember what Jemmo did for STFC - scored one of the most important goals in Towns history to get the Chelsea cup tie which in turn paid for the club to help bail itself out of the conference. IF we had of gone down without that money we would be another York City
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Post by ianwhit on Jan 11, 2005 15:34:28 GMT 1
running stfc sides from 9's up and the work fitc in the comminity do from 5's upwards is all part the youth strategy, i take it you've read a few of jamie's articles that go over the different aspects of this..
value can be measured in different ways, think in the last 3-years 13 players who have come through the 'youth' have played for the first team.. that value can be measured in transfer fees saved or wages saved.
think you probably angling for the crewe model where they have made a lot of money from transfers, they have also spent a lot of money on youth, video analysis at half-time for the youth sides etc, etc, it's quite scarey the facilities they have...
it's also about having the right blend of manager and club, gp is exciting as he wants to build and untilise the youth system. kr gave luke, jamie etc their break, jq gave dave, joe etc their breaks...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2005 15:43:17 GMT 1
running stfc sides from 9's up and the work fitc in the comminity do from 5's upwards is all part the youth strategy, i take it you've read a few of jamie's articles that go over the different aspects of this.. value can be measured in different ways, think in the last 3-years 13 players who have come through the 'youth' have played for the first team.. that value can be measured in transfer fees saved or wages saved. think you probably angling for the crewe model where they have made a lot of money from transfers, they have also spent a lot of money on youth, video analysis at half-time for the youth sides etc, etc, it's quite scarey the facilities they have... it's also about having the right blend of manager and club, gp is exciting as he wants to build and untilise the youth system. kr gave luke, jamie etc their break, jq gave dave, joe etc their breaks... Ian - 13 players? That is clearly stretching it a bit! Giving Nev thompson a few minutes against Morecambe in the Trophy and FA Cup prelim round doesn't really count as value for money! Over the last 5/6 years, we have Tolley and Rodgers who have challenged for the First Team on a consistent basis. Lee Bell has played more times for us than Ross Stephens FFS! As for your last line, I would suggest that JQ went a pretty fair way to ruining Dave Edwards and Joe Hart! What we have been lacking is a manager prepared to commit to turning 16/17/18 year olds into First team players. Not one Youth player was able to make the step up last year remember. Value can indeed be measured in different ways. But have we measured it? How many first team games have been played by Youth system graduates in the last 5 years for example? PS I read all the Youth articles
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Post by mattsnapper2 on Jan 11, 2005 15:51:35 GMT 1
dunc.. ask the same question in 3 yrs time the old days are the dying days - the new days have just begun
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Post by nickjonesey on Jan 11, 2005 17:48:44 GMT 1
From what I hear of the Academy it is going to flourish in the next few years. When Town were relegated certain funding stopped which directly affected the resources available. The set up was moth balled until this season.
With greater publicity of the structure/ facilities/ running of the Walford site I'm sure more local parents would regard their child being part of it something to be proud of (and not aspire to being cherry picked by Crewe or other 'local' rivals).
This won't happen overnight but is all part of the feel-good factor you get with a successful team and professional business.
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Post by nickjonesey on Jan 11, 2005 17:56:08 GMT 1
How many managers in the past 10 years (if ever) have come out and said they want extra training for the younger players, in the afternoons, to help them develop and reach their full potential? On first impressions, I think I'm almost as impressed by GP as Matsnapper
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2005 18:02:58 GMT 1
I DONT think people understand what youth system we have. Its one of the best in the country in my opinion. Our structure of U9s upwards is good too run by the likes of Steve Biggins and Carlton Leonard etc. It only seems a waste of time after what happened last year and then Ill be Quinn bashing again ...our youth system is our saving grace ! BTW Taffy - you are entitled to your opinion but remember what Jemmo did for STFC - scored one of the most important goals in Towns history to get the Chelsea cup tie which in turn paid for the club to help bail itself out of the conference. IF we had of gone down without that money we would be another York City Certainly NOT having a go at Jemson the player he was a fine captain and an excellent target man. Just using him as an example of an aging journeyman picking up yet another pay check. Truth be know I like the guy's arrogant streak and he certainly aided the devlopment of Luke no end. I would just prefer to see younger home-grown players in Town shirts rather than players who go from club to club.
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Post by rob on Jan 11, 2005 18:25:20 GMT 1
Despite the little I know about the matter the youth teams and scheme seems to be doing a good job, however if the manager in charge at the time only has eyes for bringing in "reliable" players or "big" name signings then obviously the amount of young players coming through will deteriorate.
Read the program from Bristol Rovers, jamie Robinson says they've been asked to present a presentation on cost effective youth systems or something like that. So obviously that part of the structure is doing alright, probably better than the first team was doing.
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