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Post by Kilburn White on Jan 11, 2005 1:07:00 GMT 1
It's been interesting to read some of the comments on the issue of whether you'd rather direct some of the NM money away from the stadium project and into the playing side of things - for what it's worth, here are my thoughts:
To my mind, your stadium is obviously an incredibly important part of your town/district. It's somewhere that you go every other week and will do so for the rest of your life. It's also where you entertain guests from other parts of the country. If you can afford to build something that has a bit more about it than the Deva, and in which you can all be proud, then I think you should make every effort to do the very best job that you can within your means. It's hopefully going to be there for a long time to come, and whilst it won't have the character of GM, there's no reason why it can't be a home, which the whole town/county can take pride in.
On the playing front, my own team, Fulham, got out of the old division four/less old division three/new league two, after finishing in our lowest ever position in 1995-96 (when we looked in serious danger of dropping out of the league) We appointed Mickey Adams (who will always be a God at the Cottage) who spent about 75 grand on 7-8 new players - all of whom were young, hungry and had something to prove, and most of whom have gone on to be regulars in division one/championship sides. Under Adams, we became very hard to beat, extremely hard working and ultimately only missed out on the championship because Wigan had scored more goals than us that season.
My point is that I don't think you need a load of money to get out of your division; you just need a canny manager with an eye for a player and a good work ethic. It's no exageration to say that our season under Micky Adams saw the rebirth of Fulham - gates went up, there was a confidence about the place and people started enjoying going to the matches again. After being in more or less continous decline for the best part of thirty years, things began to pick-up and people started to have a bit of faith in the club.
I haven't got a clue what Peters will do for you lot, but my priorities would be, build as impressive a stadium as you can without getting into financial difficulties, bring in some fresh faces in the summer (I have no doubt that Peters will already have a good idea of what needs doing) and when the NM opens, provide as many cheap ticket packages for families as you can. Our country's football-mad, but if a kid never gets the chance to watch his/her team, then why not just support Man Utd? Once they're regulars, experience tells me they're hooked for life (it's the only way any of my mates have got their kids supporting the whites, so I speak from experience!)
We used to get so frustrated playing in division three with 20,000 empty spots in the ground and still we wouldn't do kids-for-a-quid, and that with Chelsea two miles up the road and QPR (then Premiership) three miles in the other direction. It's no exageration to say that Fulham lost a whole generation during our slump. Someone else can do the maths, but if you charge people a fair price for a game, then they'll bring their kids, spend money in the shop, on pies etc and they're hooked - football's all about habit. It's why we go even though we know we support a rubbish side.
Anyhow, good luck for the rest of the season and I look forward to visiting NM at some point in the future (will have to get up to GM again before you move)
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Post by timgallon on Jan 11, 2005 1:13:41 GMT 1
Top post mate, it's a view i share. Another example of excellent management with limited resources has been Ronny Moore at Rotherham who despite this year hhave a good 5 or 6 yuears with him.
Let's get the New Meadow right from the start. A solid foundation is what we need for the long term.
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Post by Kilburn White on Jan 11, 2005 1:21:53 GMT 1
Totally agree - and Rotherham are now handicapped by the fact that Millmoor's erm, a bit limited in terms of facilities (hope that's not offended anyone!) Same thing with the Albion at Withdean - they can't progress.
Players, managers and directors come and go; the two constants at a football club are the supporters/mugs and the ground. It's important to have a home in which you can be proud - aside from a cathedral, abbey or castle, it's probably the building outside of your town will most easily be able to identify.
When MAF over at Fulham, I can honestly say that all I wanted him to do was buy back the Cottage from the bank and build us something on a par with Meadow Lane, whilst keeping the Stevenage Rd stand and the Cottage (the stand to the right of the away end) other than that, well, I was quite happy for us to find our own level under Micky Adams - not that the past few years hasn't been interesting, but everyone who was there at the time places that promotion season as the most special in the club's last three decades. God, I love that bloke!
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Jan 11, 2005 1:23:50 GMT 1
KW
I am going to take your post and staple it to Keith Sayfritz' tie tomorrow night!
PS That is a joke
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Post by rob on Jan 11, 2005 1:29:27 GMT 1
As people have stated Crewe should be our aim...
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Post by Kilburn White on Jan 11, 2005 1:34:28 GMT 1
I meant to metion this earlier, but I was chatting with a Hull fan the other day, and although things there are different (the council funded their stadium, as I'm sure you know) he said that the difference that stadium has made to the confidence of the city is incredible.
Boothferry Park was obviously not in the best of health - the away end was a joke, the East terrace (?) was shut and the other two stands were falling apart. A depressing enough setting without a poor team to boot.
The new stadium's attracted loads of interest - and it's something in which the whole city can take pride. It's like the Cottage - it might not be the biggest stadium in the world, but I've not been to one with more character and charm. If (and it's a big if) we stay up in the Prem for a few more years, then the plans are to maybe redevelop the Riverside stand - put in bars etc. To my mind, that would be 100% exactly as I'd like to see our stadium. Great atmosphere (in terms of the architecture if not the crowd!) and good facilities for home and away fans. That's all I'm after. I can honestly say that I love taking people along to Fulham for the first time because they're always impressed with the place. It would be great if you could all feel that way about the NM rather than it being a case of 'well, it does the job' - as is the case at the Bescot and the Deva (not knocking either club, but I wouldn't be too excited about either, although given the lack of pubs, the social club at the Bescot's a result)
Anyhow, sorry to bang on!
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Post by Kilburn White on Jan 11, 2005 1:39:21 GMT 1
Festival Shrew - but Crewe have been extremely fortunate to have a bit of a genius working as their manager for 20 odd years. He's kept them punching above their weight and has produced players who could be sold off to keep the club heading in the right direction.
The problem is that there aren't too many Dario Gradi's knocking about...and how much has he actually spent on transfers over the years? If you can produce good young talent that can then be sold on after a couple of years, then you can do it the Crewe way, I guess, but if you're already moving (which you are and Crewe haven't) then it's more a case of revolution than evolution, in which case I think you should do as good a job as you can on the ground, whilst making 'some' funds available for Peters (find yourselves a 20+ goal scorer in that division and you'll be laughing...)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2005 8:26:46 GMT 1
KW - are you at all worried that if Al-Fayed were to suddenly pull out all his money from Fulham you'd go bankrupt?
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Post by mysticmurray on Jan 11, 2005 8:32:03 GMT 1
Ooooh controversial there from Mr Thomas...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2005 8:44:18 GMT 1
So many good points KilburnWhite. When the day comes for the first game at the New Meadow, I want to arrive at the ground and be impressed. 5000 others will do the same. The confidence aspect is another very interesting point. Cheers
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Post by jamo on Jan 11, 2005 9:21:24 GMT 1
Typical ain't it...you don't hear from someone for month's and now you can't shut them up Excellent post from Kilburn White, my sentiments exactly. I have mentioned previously that in many way's Town fan's today are very privilaged to be around at a time of great opportunity. The NM is a superb chance to re generate our club and town and it's vital everybody grab's it and gets it right.
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Post by MartinB on Jan 11, 2005 9:26:31 GMT 1
KW I am going to take your post and staple it to Keith Sayfritz' tie tomorrow night! PS That is a joke Actually what you want TBH is one of those things they put on a donkey's head so it dangles a carrot in front of it. That way couldn't help but read it. On a serious note an excellent post by Kilburn White.
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Post by Kilburn White on Jan 11, 2005 10:07:34 GMT 1
Loyalshrew,
In a word - yes! Very! We're in a funny situation because technically we owe something ridiculous like 100m, but I believe that about 90%+ of this is actually owed to MAF...
MAF's now in his mid-seventies, domiciled in Switzerland and should be now have twigged onto the fact that although we spent huge money by lower division standards, we're not about to start winning trophies any time soon (in fact, I've been away for the past four months, but it sounds like things are pretty woeful at the mo - relative I know, but underachieving's the most annoying thing - I could handle us being crap when I paid six quid to get in and knew that the players were basically rubbish!)
Our very future depends on what happens when MAF is no longer chairman. If he leaves on good terms, then we hope and pray that he writes the debt off - in which case, he'll be a hero in my eyes for redeveloping the Cottage and giving us a few years up with the big boys.
If we end up having to pay MAF or his estate the money back, then we are screwed on an unprecedented scale. Totally and utterly.
Most of us who were always there accept that this won't last forever, and personally, I'd be happy to eventually see us becoming something of a championship/old division one side, as that's where we've spent most of our history...
Despite the fact that the football was often terrible, a lot of us still have a lot of good memories of life in the lower leagues - the Premiership ain't all it's cracked up to be, and most of our old school supporters have stopped going away due to the cost - forty-eight quid for Chelsea, anyone? I still read the league reports in the paper before the Premiership even though this is our fourth year up.
Anyhow, sorry again for banging-on, but yep, we're potentially massively up the dumper!
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Post by SeanBroseley on Jan 11, 2005 10:36:33 GMT 1
I read in the economist 4 years ago that Al-Fayed had poured mortgaged his other businesses to the hilt to support Fulham.
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Post by Kilburn White on Jan 11, 2005 10:40:36 GMT 1
Yep, he certainly doesn't appear to be as wealthy as he likes to make out, but with accounting the way it is, it's near impossible to tell what's really going on with our finances.
After the attempt to sell the Cottage without notifying fans, a supporters trust was set up with some very capable people involved with regards accountancy and law; all of whom looked at the available information and came away basically none the wiser! So, it's all a bit up in the air at the mo!
Apologies for getting slightly distracted with regards the whites and apologies also for shoddy grammar and spelling - I really should read through what I've written, eh?
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Post by harmerhillshrew on Jan 11, 2005 10:47:53 GMT 1
Dont keep saying sorry Kilburn White your input is great Its good to get an outsiders view on things. I personally think we should get the stadium right and not cheapskate. The manager we have at the moment has an eye for a good young player. He is clearing out the dead wood and bringing in very good young players at the moment. At the end of this season alot more deadwood will go as a lot of contracts are up. He will then get 'his' side together and things should take off. Gary Peters is determined to get things right at Shrewsbury football wise, you can tell that by the Ask Gary answers on Shrewsweb. The board need to get the new stadium right. Gary has said that a new stadium is a selling point when signing new players. Look how all impressed we were with Rushden and Yeovil. A successful Shrewsbury side in League Two will attract 6,000 home supporters and witha few incentive schemes from a forward looking board of directors, could put another 1,000 on that figure. How many locals will pass the 'New Meadow' on the by pass, and if built right say "Wow that looks good, perhaps I should go and have a look on matchday" We have a manager I feel that could take our club back to the heady days of the 80s, lets hope we have a stadium to do us proud, to watch our team reach those heights.
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Post by theriverside on Jan 11, 2005 10:54:38 GMT 1
This thread MUST make its way onto RW's desk, some excellent views from KW
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Post by DDAS 5 on Jan 11, 2005 10:55:22 GMT 1
Excellent post KW , lets hope Roland reads it and takes note...!!! Furthermore in my opinion Crewe are a good example of what can be achieved on a small budget with sound management principles and we believe we have the man to take us forward in GP, despite his dislike of DD I think he has demonstrated that in players like Kelvin Langmead he can replicate what Micky Adams achieved at Fulham. Also how much more could Crewe have achieved if they had better facilities and a ground that could hold more supporters.
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Post by rob on Jan 11, 2005 12:25:32 GMT 1
indeed you are right KW.
However we already have a youth system in place which is supposed to be really quite good (it said in the program that they were giving a youth presentation to the premierleague or something).
And if the hype about our manager is to be believed, which from what I've seen and heard is quite encouraging (putting back Christmas parties and donation bonuses to charity impressing me most besides some of of our performances) then we have a solid platform from which to build from on the pitch.
All that matters then is that the football club give us some half decent facilities, and keep us playing in blue and amber.
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Post by Kilburn White on Jan 11, 2005 12:37:44 GMT 1
That's the way to do things; get your foundations sorted; a stadium with facilities and PRICES to keep existing fans happy and make it easier to attract newcomers/lapsed supporters.
The other key component is your youth set-up; if you can produce 2-3 players per season who are good enough for the first team squad and maybe one player who you sell on for decent money every couple of years, then that keeps the system financing itself as well as giving you young, (hopefully hungry) Shrewsbury-minded players. Players who you probably won't be paying anywhere near like what you might to bring in aherm, 'the finished article' from outside the club. Plus we all love it when local lads are turning out for the club, eh?
And from an outsider's perspective, I reckon you lot should always play in blue and amber stripes - it's unique and distinctive and I hate clubs chopping and changing - what's going on with white rather than amber? How do they justify that? It's little things like that, which manage to give fans the nark - mind you, look at the badge we got lumbered with at Fulham! Looks like something from the Third Reich...
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Post by Worthingshrew on Jan 11, 2005 13:43:47 GMT 1
surely one of the most important investments, which no-one has mentioned, is the training facilities, and which GP attaches alot of importance to - quite rightly.
Good facilities attracts better players, and gives you the opportunity to train properly rather than having a kick about on a windswept & muddy field which is what we have at the moment I believe.
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Post by Kilburn White on Jan 11, 2005 13:54:17 GMT 1
An excellent point.
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Post by SlimShandy on Jan 11, 2005 14:52:55 GMT 1
Actually what you want TBH is one of those things they put on a donkey's head so it dangles a carrot in front of it. That way couldn't help but read it. On a serious note an excellent post by Kilburn White. Or you could trying stapling it to his forehead so its all he sees Not that I'd advocating assaulting someone is such a manner. I reprove myself with a ticking off smiley: But on another note this is a very good post from someone with an outside viewpoint. Thanks for posting Kilburn White.
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Post by oranjemob 1 on Jan 11, 2005 17:17:00 GMT 1
Hello again Kilburn.
Nice to see you're time away hasn't reduced your intelligent perception of all things football. (Hope you had a good time by the way.) Are we likely to catch up with you and John in Germany next year? I'm sure ticket swaps will be available.
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Post by Kilburn White on Jan 11, 2005 19:31:03 GMT 1
Hi there, oranjemob,
Yep, we're planning on making it out to Germany - might just do a fortnight rather than the whole tournament this time round as two of the lads who came out to Portugal are getting married in 2006 and so holiday's going to be a bit limited (one of the daft buggers is getting married in the states...)
Of course, I need to get a decent job when I get home (not long now) and whether or not Jonny-Boy comes out will very much depend on whether or not Forest go down this year (i.e. whether or not he's killed himself/goes into a ten year sulk!)
Anyhow, nice to hear from you and I hope that you're well.
Good luck with the rest of the season and take care.
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