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Post by servernaside on Oct 29, 2024 13:08:38 GMT 1
Interesting that this formerly 'left-wing echo chamber ' has gone strangely silent since the election of the Labour government.
I guess it just goes to show that the far-left are only happy when whining and moaning about the Tories, but go strangely silent when they discover that the shortcomings of Labour are worse......much, much worse.
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Post by sheltonsalopian on Oct 29, 2024 13:16:51 GMT 1
Can't say I've seen a pro Labour post other than mine the other day on this board since they've been elected
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rob62
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Post by rob62 on Oct 29, 2024 14:44:07 GMT 1
A true Labour government wouldn't plunge millions of pensioners into fuel poverty!!
Enough said....Stamer should be ashamed
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Post by Pilch on Oct 29, 2024 18:32:05 GMT 1
heres an observation, on the main forum we used to get daily a bashing of the tories or anyone who even dared to suggest labour were as bad there was one task as far as I could tell, get the PM to resign at all cost, bash Boris , act shocked and outraged at every decision, mock every move they made, laugh at memes, it was pathetic, you couldn't tell if someone was genuine or just playing the same game, and none willing to have a fair debate at all on 25 October 2022 that all changed. Sunak became PM, and it was clear as day there would be no election for a couple of years, and also he seemed sensible as far as the tories go, I sensed the tory bashers knew their games would have to be put on hold and guess what happened next ?, yes less than 48 hours later There is an increasing number of threads related in some way or another to the Conservative government. If this continues, would it not be worthwhile having a separate sub board for all these topics? I'm assuming that this can be done as I've seen other message boards do it. Just a suggestion, if, like me you are getting fed up with all this... yes, the new message from tory bashers was hide the politics from the spotlight ;-) there has been just 2 threads moved from this sub board since it began, both since starmer took over, both anti labour threads , both nothing to do with me, neither broke any rules I always used to joke about one lot being as bad as the others I have to admit I was wrong, Labour and its followers are worse than any of them |
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Post by mattmw on Oct 29, 2024 19:40:55 GMT 1
Think it’s still early days for the new government and while there are clear some controversial policies coming in, that have hit the headlines there are behind the scenes some sensible reforms coming through the system around the environment, planning, infrastructure and trade with the EU that should have longer term benefits.
I suspect the general public don’t quite realise how threadbare the services and infrastructure they use is, with a lot of it close to collapse in the near future without significant change in government, and I remain uncertain Labour will be quite radical enough to make a significant change by the next election, but time will tell how it works out
The opposition still need to settle down too with the election of their leader and what position they take in Parliament, and whether a more right leaning leadership will win back voters from reform, or if the party does split and reform and Liberal Democrat’s pick up the MPs defecting
Know it’s not a view shared by everyone, but this Parliament could well be the one where the real harsh realities of climate change hit which has the potential to derail the whole legislative process of the term as well
So all round plenty for B&A members with an interest in politics to get stuck into over the next 5 years
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Post by Pilch on Oct 29, 2024 20:02:17 GMT 1
Think it’s still early days for the new government and while there are clear some controversial policies coming in yes, wasnt it still early days when Lizz Truss had a bit of a controversial mini budget ? heres what you said seconds after it ;-) This statement has all the vibe of Ratcliffe deciding Karl Murray was a centre back in our relegation from the league season. of course though, that was just part of the Pm out at all costs, act shocked and outraged game at the time |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2024 20:17:52 GMT 1
Think it’s still early days for the new government and while there are clear some controversial policies coming in yes, wasnt it still early days when Lizz Truss had a bit of a controversial mini budget ? heres what you said seconds after it ;-) This statement has all the vibe of Ratcliffe deciding Karl Murray was a centre back in our relegation from the league season. of course though, that was just part of the Pm out at all costs, act shocked and outraged game at the time Would that be same Liz Truss that cost the UK economy £30billion? Just for context like. |
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Post by Pilch on Oct 29, 2024 20:24:32 GMT 1
yes, wasnt it still early days when Lizz Truss had a bit of a controversial mini budget ? heres what you said seconds after it ;-) of course though, that was just part of the Pm out at all costs, act shocked and outraged game at the time Would that be same Liz Truss that cost the UK economy £30billion? Just for context like. the context here is the Labour supporters are like lightening to tory bash but quiet as mice in debating labour thanks for the perfect example, I could have done better had I hacked your account  heres a reminder of this thread is about Interesting that this formerly 'left-wing echo chamber ' has gone strangely silent since the election of the Labour government. I guess it just goes to show that the far-left are only happy when whining and moaning about the Tories, but go strangely silent when they discover that the shortcomings of Labour are worse......much, much worse. |
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Post by mattmw on Oct 29, 2024 20:29:06 GMT 1
Think it’s still early days for the new government and while there are clear some controversial policies coming in yes, wasnt it still early days when Lizz Truss had a bit of a controversial mini budget ? heres what you said seconds after it ;-) This statement has all the vibe of Ratcliffe deciding Karl Murray was a centre back in our relegation from the league season. of course though, that was just part of the Pm out at all costs, act shocked and outraged game at the time If tomorrows budget is as bat s**t crazy as the Liz Truss budget I’ll happily post the same style reaction The key issue with that budget was the lack of consultation with key financial markets and regulators who got spooked at the size of the tax cuts being proposed, or analysis of the market reaction Whilst there has been much talk about the changes tomorrow’s budget will bring I suspect the actual overall fiscal policies will only really be a small fraction of overall taxation. Whilst the Chancellor was pulled over the coals by the Speaker for announcing budget items outside Parliament it’s clear much work has taken place behind the scenes to inform and consult with the financial markets ahead of the budget. As I said in the earlier post I think the likely outcome of tomorrow’s budget is likely to not be quite as radical as it needs to be to fix the problems with the public sector. As such the new Labour government is probably going to struggle to make real change over five years and suffer a slow decline and loss of the next election, rather than the abrupt end the Liz Truss suffered |
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Post by Pilch on Oct 29, 2024 20:31:45 GMT 1
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Post by mattmw on Oct 29, 2024 20:49:31 GMT 1
It was early days in Trusses leadership, but over 12 years into a Conservative led government to very different to the situation the new Government face now. The combination of massive tax cut and an increase in borrowing was a massive sea change in the fiscal policies of government and even hours after the budget major financial institutes were in panic mode. Equally Truss wasn’t even the first choice of Conservative MPs who favoured Sunak over Truss as he was more financially conservative than Truss - and indeed over turned many of her policies when he became PM shortly after. I think the Labour government are rightly being questioned on the winter fuel payments and poor definition of what a working person is, but fiscally remain very much in line with government spending and taxation over much of the last 40 years As I say I will happily criticise the chancellor tomorrow if she delivers an equally mad budget, but suspect she will be far more conservative in her outlook. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2024 20:50:57 GMT 1
Would that be same Liz Truss that cost the UK economy £30billion? Just for context like. the context here is the Labour supporters are like lightening to tory bash but quiet as mice in debating labour thanks for the perfect example, I could have done better had I hacked your account heres a reminder of this thread is about Interesting that this formerly 'left-wing echo chamber ' has gone strangely silent since the election of the Labour government. I guess it just goes to show that the far-left are only happy when whining and moaning about the Tories, but go strangely silent when they discover that the shortcomings of Labour are worse......much, much worse. When the Tories came to power in 2010 (with the support of the LibDems) they put in place massive ideological austerity measures that hit the lowest hardest. The number of food bank parcels distributed was a little over 60,000, by 22/23 it had risen to just shy of 3,000,000.
Following the election in 2015 they doubled down and also brought in Brexit, which I have yet to have heard one positive result of.
That led to the May government who spent most of their time arguing amongst themselves about how big a balls up they were going make of Brexit.
When she was forced out we got Johnson who partied as the Queen buried her husband along with the 230,000 other people that buried their loved ones, while Michele Mone and Matt Hancocks local pub landlord rode off into the sunset with millions of pounds of taxpayers money. For context the Covid response wasn't all bad and the government did get some things right.
When he was done we got Truss and we all know about the £30b black hole that she left in the treasury.
Eventually we got Rishi Rich, the wealthiest PM this country has ever known and a man who wasn't even capable of using a debit card at a petrol station.
14 years of incompetence, greed, division and austerity gave us on the left plenty of ammunition, but some people thought that we were being nasty bullies and should leave those who know best run our lives for their entertainment and greed. Nah mate, not happening.
So yeah, I think we had plenty of reasons to kick the Tories, but don't think that Labour will get a free ride I have already called out both Starmer and Shaun Davies and I will continue to if they mess up.
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Post by Pilch on Oct 29, 2024 21:13:10 GMT 1
you are clearly not happy
youve never been shy, your not a gp, haven't got a cold, not tired as up late tonight
im torn between 2 ;-)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2024 7:51:08 GMT 1
you are clearly not happy youve never been shy, your not a gp, haven't got a cold, not tired as up late tonight im torn between 2 ;-) Wow, what a snappy comeback, certainly put me in my place.
Now if you'd like to actually reply to previous post it would be lovely, but personally I just don't think that you have the intellect to engage with the issues I've raised, so I'll wait instead for another hilarious (sic) post instead.
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Post by Pilch on Oct 30, 2024 8:47:15 GMT 1
you are clearly not happy youve never been shy, your not a gp, haven't got a cold, not tired as up late tonight im torn between 2 ;-) Wow, what a snappy comeback, certainly put me in my place.
Now if you'd like to actually reply to previous post it would be lovely, but personally I just don't think that you have the intellect to engage with the issues I've raised, so I'll wait instead for another hilarious (sic) post instead.
instead of bashing the tories as you continue to do, this thread isn't really inviting a debate, its someone making an observation, all you are doing is confirming it ever time you post, maybe later on today you can tell me how much extra the budget lady has popped in my pocket like she's promised too |
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Post by servernaside on Oct 30, 2024 10:47:09 GMT 1
yes, wasnt it still early days when Lizz Truss had a bit of a controversial mini budget ? heres what you said seconds after it ;-) of course though, that was just part of the Pm out at all costs, act shocked and outraged game at the time Would that be same Liz Truss that cost the UK economy £30billion? Just for context like. Was that as catastrophic as Gordon Brown selling off our gold reserves at rock-bottom prices all those years ago? Just for context like. |
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Post by Pilch on Oct 30, 2024 11:06:24 GMT 1
Would that be same Liz Truss that cost the UK economy £30billion? Just for context like. Was that as catastrophic as Gordon Brown selling off our gold reserves at rock-bottom prices all those years ago? Just for context like. Just before the gold prices started to shoot up and up and have never stopped rising He sold it for an average of $276 an ounce Today gold is $2784 an ounce Brown fetched in £3.5 billion pounds Today it would be worth best part of £40 billion pounds Did someone say black hole ? |
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 30, 2024 17:30:24 GMT 1
Early days, juries out, looking competent so far. A good budget to begin to sort out the mess. Does the Op not appreciate just how bad the Torys were? A broad spectrum of voters at the election had realised.
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Post by mattmw on Oct 30, 2024 18:01:25 GMT 1
Good discussion via the Institute for Government on some of the more technical changes in the budget which Reeves has made, which provide a bit more detail on the government plans and how the budget provides a framework for delivering it www.youtube.com/live/dVh8dW6x0_I?si=sdQz9tj8TGYxYSi1 |
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Post by servernaside on Oct 30, 2024 19:17:03 GMT 1
Early days, juries out, looking competent so far. A good budget to begin to sort out the mess. Does the Op not appreciate just how bad the Torys were? A broad spectrum of voters at the election had realised. [br Looking competent ? What particular planet do you live on? |
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 30, 2024 19:28:26 GMT 1
Early days, juries out, looking competent so far. A good budget to begin to sort out the mess. Does the Op not appreciate just how bad the Torys were? A broad spectru, toots wuellefm of voters at the election had realised. [br Looking competent ? What particular planet do you live on? Junior doctors not striking, the trains running, riots quelled, HS2 is now going to Euston east to west railway upgrsdes better relations with Germany, extra money for NHS. |
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Post by servernaside on Oct 30, 2024 19:35:29 GMT 1
[br Looking competent ? What particular planet do you live on? Junior doctors not striking, the trains running, riots quelled, HS2 is now going to Euston east to zest railway upgrsdes better relations with Germany, extra money for NHS. I seem to recall that doctors were working and that trains were largely running before the Labour government came in. Still, it’s amazing how a hefty bung to their trades union buddies can grease the wheels. Who exactly is paying for that by the way? Riots quelled? Better relations with Germany ? ffs is that all you can come up with? Be sure to let me know the name of your planet. |
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 30, 2024 19:42:25 GMT 1
Junior doctors not striking, the trains running, riots quelled, HS2 is now going to Euston east to zest railway upgrsdes better relations with Germany, extra money for NHS. I seem to recall that doctors were working and that trains were largely running before the Labour government came in. Still, it’s amazing how a hefty bung to their trades union buddies can grease the wheels. Who exactly is paying for that by the way? Riots quelled? Better relations with Germany ? ffs is that all you can come up with? Be sure to let me know the name of your planet. So you would rather have continued to live in a country disappearing down a black hole. Please let me know if anything was better after 14 years of Tory rule |
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Post by servernaside on Oct 30, 2024 21:42:57 GMT 1
I seem to recall that doctors were working and that trains were largely running before the Labour government came in. Still, it’s amazing how a hefty bung to their trades union buddies can grease the wheels. Who exactly is paying for that by the way? Riots quelled? Better relations with Germany ? ffs is that all you can come up with? Be sure to let me know the name of your planet. So you would rather have continued to live in a country disappearing down a black hole. Please let me know if anything was better after 14 years of Tory rule The black hole is coming up fast, courtesy of Two-tier Kier and Reichskanzler Reeves. Kill incentive, kill hard work, kill investment, reward sloth and idleness, squander millions on vanity projects. It is traditional socialist tax and spend and always results in low growth, higher unemployment and consequently lower tax revenues. Any notion that the increased tax take will some be used to fund ‘investment’ is pure nonsense. It will merely fund increased spending…throwing good money after bad on an unreformed NHS etc. etc. etc. Anything is better than that. |
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Post by Pilch on Oct 30, 2024 23:02:14 GMT 1
I seem to recall that doctors were working and that trains were largely running before the Labour government came in. Still, it’s amazing how a hefty bung to their trades union buddies can grease the wheels. Who exactly is paying for that by the way? Riots quelled? Better relations with Germany ? ffs is that all you can come up with? Be sure to let me know the name of your planet. So you would rather have continued to live in a country disappearing down a black hole. Please let me know if anything was better after 14 years of Tory rule Labours explanation of the black hole that they promised has gone down a black hole I think |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2024 7:56:54 GMT 1
So you would rather have continued to live in a country disappearing down a black hole. Please let me know if anything was better after 14 years of Tory rule The black hole is coming up fast, courtesy of Two-tier Kier and Reichskanzler Reeves. Kill incentive, kill hard work, kill investment, reward sloth and idleness, squander millions on vanity projects. It is traditional socialist tax and spend and always results in low growth, higher unemployment and consequently lower tax revenues. Any notion that the increased tax take will some be used to fund ‘investment’ is pure nonsense. It will merely fund increased spending…throwing good money after bad on an unreformed NHS etc. etc. etc. Anything is better than that.
Since 1946 Labour governments have borrowed less and repaid more of the national debt than the Tories.
The Global Financial Crash (which contrary to the belief of some on here was not caused by Gordon Brown) made a mess of economies across the world and the ideological austerity forced on the country killed real growth in the economy for most of the last 14 years. During the last Labour government UK growth in GDP averaged around 2.2% even taking into account the crash. The Tories delivered around 1.65% including the Covid crash and recovery which mostly evened the average out.
UK tax revenues over the last 14 years have risen from around 33% of the national income to 37%, much of which has been targeted at lower earners, pensioners and those least able to pay, while corporations, billionaires, bankers and generally anyone in the top 10% have had a much easier time of things.
In the November of 1979 unemployment was around 5.4%, 12 months later it had risen to 7.7%, 2 years later it was up to 11% before peaking in June 1984 at 11.9%. The rate dropped slowly until June 1990 and bottomed out at 6.9%, before rising again to 10.7% in early 1993. It then began another slow contraction and it was at 7.2% when Blair entered Downing Street. Most of the time that Labour were in power the rate was hovering at around 5% until the Crash when it rose to around 8%. 5 years later it was still at around that level. So to try and call out Labour for high unemployment is beyond ridiculous when for the last 50 years the Tories have a much worse record.
The Tories have just had 14 years in which to reform the NHS, but instead have criminally underfunded it instead (in real terms). They have also alienated most of the staff, from consultants to nurses to HCAs to paramedics to GPs, in fact every single level of staff. To expect Labour to reform the NHS in a few months is again ridiculous, but then I think you already know that.
If you want vanity projects look no further than HS2 or the Brexit plane among others, not to mention the new yacht we bought for Michele Mone or the billions handed over to Dido Harding.
Finally to compare Reeves to Hitler is beneath you. There are some I would expect that from, but I had hoped that you were better than that
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Post by Pilch on Oct 31, 2024 8:20:02 GMT 1
It's times like this you must feel like Rose Wests defence lawyer 🙄
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2024 9:21:08 GMT 1
It's times like this you must feel like Rose Wests defence lawyer 🙄 If you were the barrister for the prosecution I'd probably get her off and get a few million in compensation for defamation on top. I presented you with facts, you came back with what you think is a witty repost, because you are either too lazy or too thick to even try to argue your case. |
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Post by Pilch on Oct 31, 2024 11:13:16 GMT 1
It's times like this you must feel like Rose Wests defence lawyer 🙄 If you were the barrister for the prosecution I'd probably get her off and get a few million in compensation for defamation on top. I presented you with facts, you came back with what you think is a witty repost, because you are either too lazy or too thick to even try to argue your case. What you did was Google an outdated story which is now fake news You know as much about politics as starmer does without his script writer |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2024 12:33:41 GMT 1
If you were the barrister for the prosecution I'd probably get her off and get a few million in compensation for defamation on top. I presented you with facts, you came back with what you think is a witty repost, because you are either too lazy or too thick to even try to argue your case. What you did was Google an outdated story which is now fake news You know as much about politics as starmer does without his script writer Care to point out which bits are fake? If you can provide evidence that my post is inaccurate or false I would be more than happy to retract those points. |
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