Our level?

[staffordshrew]

Oct 7, 2024 19:43:37 GMT 1 Pilch said:

Oct 7, 2024 19:40:01 GMT 1 cabanas2017 said:

Free sausages ……now you’re being silly

its not the Wurst idea I've had 

Yes, let's get the hostages.. sausages out.

[venceremos]

Fans tend to overestimate their club's 'natural' position. That's why there are 40 clubs that apparently 'belong' in the Premier League, most of the rest in the Championship or League One and almost nobody in League Two - except two thirds of the National League clubs probably.

I don't see the sense in saying a club's history has any real bearing on it these days. So what if a club's been at whatever level for most of its history? Brighton, Bournemouth and Brentford are solid Premier League clubs while Stoke, Sheffield Wednesday and QPR are nowhere near - history's irrelevant to that.

I'd agree that League One seems to be our natural level historically but it's just not relevant now. It's all about resources, whether they're real, begged, borrowed or stolen! Too many owners are throwing ever increasing amounts into their clubs. If a club can't match that then, eventually, they're going to fall back.

That's the position we seem to be in today. The financial demands just to stand still are greater than ever. Without increased resources (or football's financial bubble bursting) it's inevitable that Shrewsbury will find League One beyond its capabilities eventually. Might be this season, might not, but it'll happen unless something changes.

I'm not being defeatist because (a) our circumstances might change (b) we might yet survive again this season and (c) even if we don't, I'm not one who believes relegation is the end of the world.

But arguing over what our supposedly natural level might be is historically interesting but totally irrelevant to our current and future position.

[davycrockett]

Oct 8, 2024 11:54:12 GMT 1 belfastshrew said:

Oct 8, 2024 11:07:08 GMT 1 davycrockett said:

Mansfield also use it non match days, this Saturday they’re away at Exeter but the club are holding an Octoberfest all day, expecting 1000s at £15 a pop despite playing away

If they put their match on the tvs...would be awesome. I would goto smithys to watch Shrews away if so

That’s a great idea. Crawley aways live on Sky, I’ll be watching it somewhere with sons, could be Smithys?

[Pilch]

Oct 8, 2024 15:07:15 GMT 1 venceremos said:

Fans tend to overestimate their club's 'natural' position. That's why there are 40 clubs that apparently 'belong' in the Premier League, most of the rest in the Championship or League One and almost nobody in League Two - except two thirds of the National League clubs probably.

I don't see the sense in saying a club's history has any real bearing on it these days. So what if a club's been at whatever level for most of its history? Brighton, Bournemouth and Brentford are solid Premier League clubs while Stoke, Sheffield Wednesday and QPR are nowhere near - history's irrelevant to that.

I'd agree that League One seems to be our natural level historically but it's just not relevant now. It's all about resources, whether they're real, begged, borrowed or stolen! Too many owners are throwing ever increasing amounts into their clubs. If a club can't match that then, eventually, they're going to fall back.

That's the position we seem to be in today. The financial demands just to stand still are greater than ever. Without increased resources (or football's financial bubble bursting) it's inevitable that Shrewsbury will find League One beyond its capabilities eventually. Might be this season, might not, but it'll happen unless something changes.

I'm not being defeatist because (a) our circumstances might change (b) we might yet survive again this season and (c) even if we don't, I'm not one who believes relegation is the end of the world.

But arguing over what our supposedly natural level might be is historically interesting but totally irrelevant to our current and future position.

its the kind of debate we didnt have in 17/18,    neither did we have one about hand rails,   or a new chairman,   or the fan zone , it was its first season ,  bird muck was a thing but we joked about it,  smithys was still the power bar , sadly it was the first season without Chris ,   but there were still moaners. blueandamber.proboards.com/thread/95101/catering

[Deleted]

Oct 8, 2024 23:22:17 GMT 1 Pilch said:

Oct 8, 2024 15:07:15 GMT 1 venceremos said:

its the kind of debate we didnt have in 17/18,    neither did we have one about hand rails,   or a new chairman,   or the fan zone , it was its first season ,  bird muck was a thing but we joked about it,  smithys was still the power bar , sadly it was the first season without Chris ,   but there were still moaners. blueandamber.proboards.com/thread/95101/catering

Are you suggesting fans are less likely to moan when thing's are going well on the pitch? Well I'm certainly shocked at that major revelation 

Anyway, what you lazily dismiss as 'moaning' is normally legitimate concerns, constructive feedback or simply a desire to see the club improve. The reality is much of what is done at the club is because of the 'moaning' and without that feedback, the experience at the stadium would be far worse.

Lets take the club shop as an example, lots of positivty, vast improvement, always busy. Well done to the club and hopefully its bringing in more revenue. But this has only come about because for 17 years the fans have been 'moaning' that what the club built was inadequate, it was too small and at times resembled a jumble sale. If the fans hadn't been 'moaning' for 17 years then I'm pretty confident we would still be in there today.

I know you might not believe it but when fans are 'moaning' about something at the ground, they arent necessarily doing it because they are taking a pop at the chairman. They are often doing it because they see a weakness and in the case of the club shop, they think the club are missing out. It appears the club shop is well run and its been popular with fans, now imagine if they did that with Smithys, the restaurant, etc.

[Deleted]

Oct 8, 2024 15:07:15 GMT 1 venceremos said:

Fans tend to overestimate their club's 'natural' position. That's why there are 40 clubs that apparently 'belong' in the Premier League, most of the rest in the Championship or League One and almost nobody in League Two - except two thirds of the National League clubs probably.

I don't see the sense in saying a club's history has any real bearing on it these days. So what if a club's been at whatever level for most of its history? Brighton, Bournemouth and Brentford are solid Premier League clubs while Stoke, Sheffield Wednesday and QPR are nowhere near - history's irrelevant to that.

I'd agree that League One seems to be our natural level historically but it's just not relevant now. It's all about resources, whether they're real, begged, borrowed or stolen! Too many owners are throwing ever increasing amounts into their clubs. If a club can't match that then, eventually, they're going to fall back.

That's the position we seem to be in today. The financial demands just to stand still are greater than ever. Without increased resources (or football's financial bubble bursting) it's inevitable that Shrewsbury will find League One beyond its capabilities eventually. Might be this season, might not, but it'll happen unless something changes.

I'm not being defeatist because (a) our circumstances might change (b) we might yet survive again this season and (c) even if we don't, I'm not one who believes relegation is the end of the world.

But arguing over what our supposedly natural level might be is historically interesting but totally irrelevant to our current and future position.

I imagine that within my lifetime many clubs like Shrewsbury will become feeder clubs or de facto B teams for top flight teams, perhaps not actually owned by the same people, but certainly linked to them, with transfers, loans, etc. We may technically have a club to support, but in reality will actually become Liverpool, Citeh, Arsenal or Utd fans by default. Finance and finding ways around the FFP rules are paramount to the big clubs and smaller clubs like our are going to enter the conversation at some point, if they haven't already.

[Pilch]

Oct 9, 2024 7:16:35 GMT 1 @salopiam said:

Oct 8, 2024 23:22:17 GMT 1 Pilch said:

its the kind of debate we didnt have in 17/18,    neither did we have one about hand rails,   or a new chairman,   or the fan zone , it was its first season ,  bird muck was a thing but we joked about it,  smithys was still the power bar , sadly it was the first season without Chris ,   but there were still moaners. blueandamber.proboards.com/thread/95101/catering

Are you suggesting fans are less likely to moan when thing's are going well on the pitch? Well I'm certainly shocked at that major revelation 

Anyway, what you lazily dismiss as 'moaning' is normally legitimate concerns, constructive feedback or simply a desire to see the club improve. The reality is much of what is done at the club is because of the 'moaning' and without that feedback, the experience at the stadium would be far worse.

Lets take the club shop as an example, lots of positivty, vast improvement, always busy. Well done to the club and hopefully its bringing in more revenue. But this has only come about because for 17 years the fans have been 'moaning' that what the club built was inadequate, it was too small and at times resembled a jumble sale. If the fans hadn't been 'moaning' for 17 years then I'm pretty confident we would still be in there today.

I know you might not believe it but when fans are 'moaning' about something at the ground, they arent necessarily doing it because they are taking a pop at the chairman. They are often doing it because they see a weakness and in the case of the club shop, they think the club are missing out. It appears the club shop is well run and its been popular with fans, now imagine if they did that with Smithys, the restaurant, etc.

Like I've said ,in 17 years I think I'm top of the list for moaning about improvements the club can make for the benefit of the fans , I'm always realistic with my moans too I think , and tend to prioritise them too , I'll list them if you like



I have a moan that I have previously raised and will raise again and could be at least temporarily sorted for less than £100

I took this last night and think it's a priority for fans to get sorted by the club

screenshot windows 8

[davycrockett]

Oct 9, 2024 8:43:07 GMT 1 Pilch said:

Oct 9, 2024 7:16:35 GMT 1 @salopiam said:

Are you suggesting fans are less likely to moan when thing's are going well on the pitch? Well I'm certainly shocked at that major revelation 

Anyway, what you lazily dismiss as 'moaning' is normally legitimate concerns, constructive feedback or simply a desire to see the club improve. The reality is much of what is done at the club is because of the 'moaning' and without that feedback, the experience at the stadium would be far worse.

Lets take the club shop as an example, lots of positivty, vast improvement, always busy. Well done to the club and hopefully its bringing in more revenue. But this has only come about because for 17 years the fans have been 'moaning' that what the club built was inadequate, it was too small and at times resembled a jumble sale. If the fans hadn't been 'moaning' for 17 years then I'm pretty confident we would still be in there today.

I know you might not believe it but when fans are 'moaning' about something at the ground, they arent necessarily doing it because they are taking a pop at the chairman. They are often doing it because they see a weakness and in the case of the club shop, they think the club are missing out. It appears the club shop is well run and its been popular with fans, now imagine if they did that with Smithys, the restaurant, etc.

Like I've said ,in 17 years I think I'm top of the list for moaning about improvements the club can make for the benefit of the fans , I'm always realistic with my moans too I think , and tend to prioritise them too , I'll list them if you like



I have a moan that I have previously raised and will raise again and could be at least temporarily sorted for less than £100

I took this last night and think it's a priority for fans to get sorted by the club

screenshot windows 8

Except the club claimed for years it wasn’t  their land / responsibility until I proved it was through land registry. 

Interesting reading your link to 2017, nothings changed most fans discussing the problems and talking sensibly trying to help, one taking a belittling stance. All the problems identified got sorted out.

[belfastshrew]

Don't ask, don't get 🤷‍♂️

[Pilch]

Oct 9, 2024 10:01:06 GMT 1 davycrockett said:

Oct 9, 2024 8:43:07 GMT 1 Pilch said:

Like I've said ,in 17 years I think I'm top of the list for moaning about improvements the club can make for the benefit of the fans , I'm always realistic with my moans too I think , and tend to prioritise them too , I'll list them if you like



I have a moan that I have previously raised and will raise again and could be at least temporarily sorted for less than £100

I took this last night and think it's a priority for fans to get sorted by the club

screenshot windows 8

Except the club claimed for years it wasn’t  their land / responsibility until I proved it was through land registry. 

Interesting reading your link to 2017, nothings changed most fans discussing the problems and talking sensibly trying to help, one taking a belittling stance. All the problems identified got sorted out.

You've just emphasised my point that the club isn't standing still

[Deleted]

I’m confused then, are we allowed to moan or aren’t we? Or are we only allowed to moan about approved subjects? Or are only certain people allowed to moan?

I’ll continue to moan anyway 👍

[davycrockett]

Oct 9, 2024 10:32:09 GMT 1 @feedoknasher said:

I’m confused then, are we allowed to moan or aren’t we? Or are we only allowed to moan about approved subjects? Or are only certain people allowed to moan?

I’ll continue to moan anyway 👍

One poster moans more than any other and gets away with it so should be OK😉

[davycrockett]

Oct 9, 2024 10:27:13 GMT 1 Pilch said:

Oct 9, 2024 10:01:06 GMT 1 davycrockett said:

Except the club claimed for years it wasn’t  their land / responsibility until I proved it was through land registry. 

Interesting reading your link to 2017, nothings changed most fans discussing the problems and talking sensibly trying to help, one taking a belittling stance. All the problems identified got sorted out.

You've just emphasised my point that the club isn't standing still

Proves the point you have to keep going to get things done. You didn’t mention the carpet looks shabby to Roland did you

[mattmw]

Oct 9, 2024 7:33:25 GMT 1 @neilsalop said:

Oct 8, 2024 15:07:15 GMT 1 venceremos said:

Fans tend to overestimate their club's 'natural' position. That's why there are 40 clubs that apparently 'belong' in the Premier League, most of the rest in the Championship or League One and almost nobody in League Two - except two thirds of the National League clubs probably.

I don't see the sense in saying a club's history has any real bearing on it these days. So what if a club's been at whatever level for most of its history? Brighton, Bournemouth and Brentford are solid Premier League clubs while Stoke, Sheffield Wednesday and QPR are nowhere near - history's irrelevant to that.

I'd agree that League One seems to be our natural level historically but it's just not relevant now. It's all about resources, whether they're real, begged, borrowed or stolen! Too many owners are throwing ever increasing amounts into their clubs. If a club can't match that then, eventually, they're going to fall back.

That's the position we seem to be in today. The financial demands just to stand still are greater than ever. Without increased resources (or football's financial bubble bursting) it's inevitable that Shrewsbury will find League One beyond its capabilities eventually. Might be this season, might not, but it'll happen unless something changes.

I'm not being defeatist because (a) our circumstances might change (b) we might yet survive again this season and (c) even if we don't, I'm not one who believes relegation is the end of the world.

But arguing over what our supposedly natural level might be is historically interesting but totally irrelevant to our current and future position.

I imagine that within my lifetime many clubs like Shrewsbury will become feeder clubs or de facto B teams for top flight teams, perhaps not actually owned by the same people, but certainly linked to them, with transfers, loans, etc. We may technically have a club to support, but in reality will actually become Liverpool, Citeh, Arsenal or Utd fans by default. Finance and finding ways around the FFP rules are paramount to the big clubs and smaller clubs like our are going to enter the conversation at some point, if they haven't already.

Think sadly you are right.

I had hoped football might start to see sense and back away from the stupid spending seen since the Premier League started, but if anything the investment by multi national organisations and even mega rich nations has seen things escalate even more

I’d still hope there is a place for well run, community focused clubs within the league structure that maintains the ability for fans to occasionally see there side go head to head with the mega rich sides in the cup and for a lucky few a short stay in the championship and premier league but without significant reform of the game that’s probably unlikely

Not just down to Towns poor position but I’m increasingly finding watching football less and less attractive as a past time

[venceremos]

Oct 9, 2024 10:38:07 GMT 1 mattmw said:

Oct 9, 2024 7:33:25 GMT 1 @neilsalop said:

I imagine that within my lifetime many clubs like Shrewsbury will become feeder clubs or de facto B teams for top flight teams, perhaps not actually owned by the same people, but certainly linked to them, with transfers, loans, etc. We may technically have a club to support, but in reality will actually become Liverpool, Citeh, Arsenal or Utd fans by default. Finance and finding ways around the FFP rules are paramount to the big clubs and smaller clubs like our are going to enter the conversation at some point, if they haven't already.

Think sadly you are right.

I had hoped football might start to see sense and back away from the stupid spending seen since the Premier League started, but if anything the investment by multi national organisations and even mega rich nations has seen things escalate even more

I’d still hope there is a place for well run, community focused clubs within the league structure that maintains the ability for fans to occasionally see there side go head to head with the mega rich sides in the cup and for a lucky few a short stay in the championship and premier league but without significant reform of the game that’s probably unlikely

Not just down to Towns poor position but I’m increasingly finding watching football less and less attractive as a past time

Not sure whether you meant less attractive as a pastime or as a past time, but they both seem to fit!

I'm not as pessimistic as Neil in that I don't see PL clubs effectively taking over clubs like ours.  They don't really need to.  Their academies sign up the brightest talents, their facilities are generally way beyond those of smaller clubs, their coaching is structured so their players are developed with the same footballing philosophy and the best can transition seamlessly to higher levels - why would you entrust a lower league manager in another part of the country, who might be sacked at short notice anyway, to interrupt that?  Besides which I don't see any relaxation of the one club per country ownership rule happening, even though the appalling multi-club model is being allowed to spread like a virus internationally.

And that's the other thing.  With more PL clubs being part of multi-club groups, it's easy to send young players out to another club in the group for development, rather than loan them to clubs lower down the EFL.

That's why, although I don't see the top level spending being reined in too much, I still think there's a future for what you call community-focused clubs lower down the structure.  I'm not being sarcastic about that "community focused" term, but PL clubs are also engaged with their communities through their foundations and lower league clubs are also generally owned by wealthy benefactors, albeit not usually billionaires, nation states or hedge funds.  The difference isn't chalk and cheese, it's more occupying different places on the same spectrum.      

[Pilch]

Oct 9, 2024 10:37:08 GMT 1 davycrockett said:

Oct 9, 2024 10:27:13 GMT 1 Pilch said:

You've just emphasised my point that the club isn't standing still

Proves the point you have to keep going to get things done. You didn’t mention the carpet looks shabby to Roland did you

No , I was waiting for you to tell me what you say

[The Clash 1966]

Oct 9, 2024 8:43:07 GMT 1 Pilch said:

Oct 9, 2024 7:16:35 GMT 1 @salopiam said:

Are you suggesting fans are less likely to moan when thing's are going well on the pitch? Well I'm certainly shocked at that major revelation 

Anyway, what you lazily dismiss as 'moaning' is normally legitimate concerns, constructive feedback or simply a desire to see the club improve. The reality is much of what is done at the club is because of the 'moaning' and without that feedback, the experience at the stadium would be far worse.

Lets take the club shop as an example, lots of positivty, vast improvement, always busy. Well done to the club and hopefully its bringing in more revenue. But this has only come about because for 17 years the fans have been 'moaning' that what the club built was inadequate, it was too small and at times resembled a jumble sale. If the fans hadn't been 'moaning' for 17 years then I'm pretty confident we would still be in there today.

I know you might not believe it but when fans are 'moaning' about something at the ground, they arent necessarily doing it because they are taking a pop at the chairman. They are often doing it because they see a weakness and in the case of the club shop, they think the club are missing out. It appears the club shop is well run and its been popular with fans, now imagine if they did that with Smithys, the restaurant, etc.

Like I've said ,in 17 years I think I'm top of the list for moaning about improvements the club can make for the benefit of the fans , I'm always realistic with my moans too I think , and tend to prioritise them too , I'll list them if you like



I have a moan that I have previously raised and will raise again and could be at least temporarily sorted for less than £100

I took this last night and think it's a priority for fans to get sorted by the club

screenshot windows 8

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it a big puddle?

My solution would be to wear sturdy boots 🥾🥾 and leave the white trainers at home 👍

[Pilch]

Oct 9, 2024 13:23:41 GMT 1 The Clash 1966 said:

Oct 9, 2024 8:43:07 GMT 1 Pilch said:

Like I've said ,in 17 years I think I'm top of the list for moaning about improvements the club can make for the benefit of the fans , I'm always realistic with my moans too I think , and tend to prioritise them too , I'll list them if you like



I have a moan that I have previously raised and will raise again and could be at least temporarily sorted for less than £100

I took this last night and think it's a priority for fans to get sorted by the club

screenshot windows 8

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it a big puddle?

My solution would be to wear sturdy boots 🥾🥾 and leave the white trainers at home 👍

How awfully rude of you 😝

I walked the long way home

[The Clash 1966]

Oct 9, 2024 13:31:48 GMT 1 Pilch said:

Oct 9, 2024 13:23:41 GMT 1 The Clash 1966 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it a big puddle?

My solution would be to wear sturdy boots 🥾🥾 and leave the white trainers at home 👍

How awfully rude of you 😝

I walked the long way home

In the old days I could have cleared that distance with a long running jump.

Now I'd just moan about getting mud on my boots. 😤

[davycrockett]

Oct 9, 2024 13:17:16 GMT 1 Pilch said:

Oct 9, 2024 10:37:08 GMT 1 davycrockett said:

Proves the point you have to keep going to get things done. You didn’t mention the carpet looks shabby to Roland did you

No , I was waiting for you to tell me what you say

When have I told you what to say? Thats the second time today you’ve said that……

[Pilch]

just been down superblues way and its a lot safer now