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Post by Pilch on Oct 2, 2024 22:17:53 GMT 1
Do you mean he's bought them at face value and will sell them above that in his valuation of the whole club? The value of the club based on £2.50 per share is £4.6m. If the club were to be sold in January for £5.6m then Roland would be getting £3 per share and so will have made a very nice return of 20%. If the rumour of his £8m valuation is correct, and that is what he ends up getting for the club, then he would be getting £4.32 per share and a whopping 73% return. Of course if he cannot sell the club and we go into liquidation then he will only get the value of the assets less liabilities - whilst the accounts show that at £10.8m I don't think that the realisable value of the ground is really £14m so who knows what he'd get in the worst case scenario. £2.50 in 1997 is worth about a fiver today, start adding inflation to all the times shares were added and you might reach a different figure I wish I'd bought a house in 1997, put it that way |
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Post by darkshrew on Oct 2, 2024 22:20:55 GMT 1
The value of the club based on £2.50 per share is £4.6m. If the club were to be sold in January for £5.6m then Roland would be getting £3 per share and so will have made a very nice return of 20%. If the rumour of his £8m valuation is correct, and that is what he ends up getting for the club, then he would be getting £4.32 per share and a whopping 73% return. Of course if he cannot sell the club and we go into liquidation then he will only get the value of the assets less liabilities - whilst the accounts show that at £10.8m I don't think that the realisable value of the ground is really £14m so who knows what he'd get in the worst case scenario. £2.50 in 1997 is worth about a fiver today, start adding inflation to all the times shares were added and you might reach a different figure I wish I'd bought a house in 1997, put it that way  I am talking about the £2m in shares he has just bought at £2.5 each. |
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Post by Pilch on Oct 2, 2024 22:25:31 GMT 1
just had a look and found this Thanks Pilch - I’ll check the latest Articles of Association 👍 I suspect the Chairman won’t be too pleased with you when I start the Class Action for compensation on behalf of all shareholders !! 👍😉 2 things 1, always read the small print 2. I always play fair re number 1, I doubt you can claim anything more than 6 years back, and that promising you have receipts and evidence ;-) re number 2 the times you've given your ticket away contravenes the rule anyway you'd be better off going to see Lord Ali for a freebie ;-) |
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Oct 2, 2024 23:09:09 GMT 1
Do you mean he's bought them at face value and will sell them above that in his valuation of the whole club? The value of the club based on £2.50 per share is £4.6m. If the club were to be sold in January for £5.6m then Roland would be getting £3 per share and so will have made a very nice return of 20%. If the rumour of his £8m valuation is correct, and that is what he ends up getting for the club, then he would be getting £4.32 per share and a whopping 73% return. Of course if he cannot sell the club and we go into liquidation then he will only get the value of the assets less liabilities - whilst the accounts show that at £10.8m I don't think that the realisable value of the ground is really £14m so who knows what he'd get in the worst case scenario. Wow |
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Oct 2, 2024 23:10:53 GMT 1
The value of the club based on £2.50 per share is £4.6m. If the club were to be sold in January for £5.6m then Roland would be getting £3 per share and so will have made a very nice return of 20%. If the rumour of his £8m valuation is correct, and that is what he ends up getting for the club, then he would be getting £4.32 per share and a whopping 73% return. Of course if he cannot sell the club and we go into liquidation then he will only get the value of the assets less liabilities - whilst the accounts show that at £10.8m I don't think that the realisable value of the ground is really £14m so who knows what he'd get in the worst case scenario. £2.50 in 1997 is worth about a fiver today, start adding inflation to all the times shares were added and you might reach a different figure I wish I'd bought a house in 1997, put it that way He bought them in the last month. If the inflationary figure you suggest is true he's bought them at a discount. |
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Post by Pilch on Oct 2, 2024 23:25:25 GMT 1
£2.50 in 1997 is worth about a fiver today, start adding inflation to all the times shares were added and you might reach a different figure I wish I'd bought a house in 1997, put it that way He bought them in the last month. If the inflationary figure you suggest is true he's bought them at a discount. yeah 840,000 in exchange for £2.1m . £2.50 last week is worth £2.50 today |
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Post by dibblydobbly on Oct 3, 2024 6:42:48 GMT 1
Close but: In a normal deal there is a working capital adjustment so if there is 2.1m of debt it comes off the price, as the company will have to repay it,as part of the deal, but by converting to shares the shareholder would be paid for shares whereas in the alternative the price per share would be less BUT the holder of the loan gets that repaid also. So it nets to the same thing - Loan repaid plus old shares or new shares plus old shares, normally Mmm; have worked in M&A for more than 30 years - there is nothing that can be considered normal in a deal with regard to the valuation of assets and liabilities that is why you have a DD and two usually completely different valuations. The only certainties that you have in a deal are the price paid per share and the number of shares acquired. I suspect we will have to disagree now, sorry, but buying a business at this level in this industry is about control, not price per share, there is no price per share calculation to be done, as the buyer wants control, and hoovering up small shareholdings that mean a lot to people is counterproductive. |
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Post by darkshrew on Oct 3, 2024 7:07:55 GMT 1
Mmm; have worked in M&A for more than 30 years - there is nothing that can be considered normal in a deal with regard to the valuation of assets and liabilities that is why you have a DD and two usually completely different valuations. The only certainties that you have in a deal are the price paid per share and the number of shares acquired. I suspect we will have to disagree now, sorry, but buying a business at this level in this industry is about control, not price per share, there is no price per share calculation to be done, as the buyer wants control, and hoovering up small shareholdings that mean a lot to people is counterproductive. Yep - control is the only thing that you are after when taking over a company - that gives the shares which provide that control a premium over impotent minority holdings. As I said - the only certainties in a deal are the number of shares that you buy and the price paid for them; that is what you need for control. |
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Post by darkshrew on Oct 3, 2024 7:25:30 GMT 1
Converted to shares, shareholding rises from 77% to 87%. If this is true then Roland is near the magic 90% of shares where he can sell 100% of the club because the buyers will have the right to squeeze out the minority shareholders. If Montgomery has the missing 3% then combined they would be in a position to sell a much neater ownership structure. |
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Oct 3, 2024 7:32:54 GMT 1
Mmm; have worked in M&A for more than 30 years - there is nothing that can be considered normal in a deal with regard to the valuation of assets and liabilities that is why you have a DD and two usually completely different valuations. The only certainties that you have in a deal are the price paid per share and the number of shares acquired. I suspect we will have to disagree now, sorry, but buying a business at this level in this industry is about control, not price per share, there is no price per share calculation to be done, as the buyer wants control, and hoovering up small shareholdings that mean a lot to people is counterproductive. So are you saying RW is converting loans to shares at 2.50 a share which could be sold for a much higher value than 2.50 a share? |
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Post by Pilch on Oct 3, 2024 7:54:53 GMT 1
whilst we are guessing figures I wonder what salary such an important job as a football club chairman would fetch if they took one ?
and imagine working 28 years full time sometimes all hours and not earning a penny for it
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Post by cabanas2017 on Oct 3, 2024 8:09:56 GMT 1
Mmm; have worked in M&A for more than 30 years - there is nothing that can be considered normal in a deal with regard to the valuation of assets and liabilities that is why you have a DD and two usually completely different valuations. The only certainties that you have in a deal are the price paid per share and the number of shares acquired. I suspect we will have to disagree now, sorry, but buying a business at this level in this industry is about control, not price per share, there is no price per share calculation to be done, as the buyer wants control, and hoovering up small shareholdings that mean a lot to people is counterproductive. Everyone is banging on about the financial side, I still think at Roland’s time of life making himself a profit is not that important to him as it might have been a decade ago. I believe he does want to find a genuine owner but also to maintain some influence in the club he does love. My criticism of Roland is it has taken him too many years to accept this is the right decision in the interest of STFC and has been procrastinating since 2014 …… It would be good to know the truth about the breakdown in the relationship of STFC, Greenhous (Roland and Derek Passant) . To me Greenhous are the perfect fit for our club and the answer to the financial difficulties. |
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Post by dibblydobbly on Oct 3, 2024 8:35:24 GMT 1
I suspect we will have to disagree now, sorry, but buying a business at this level in this industry is about control, not price per share, there is no price per share calculation to be done, as the buyer wants control, and hoovering up small shareholdings that mean a lot to people is counterproductive. So are you saying RW is converting loans to shares at 2.50 a share which could be sold for a much higher value than 2.50 a share? The opposite. If a buyer would pay X for control, then whether they get 76%, 80% or 85% is all the same, so the price will not change, in fact it would drop per share, In a normal company there would be dividends which is what drives a valuation especially of minorities and a per share calculation. Here there is no chance of dividends, so the dividend model and the income stream that comes with an extra share is redundant, and extra shares for the same price will drop the per share price. |
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Post by dibblydobbly on Oct 3, 2024 8:38:45 GMT 1
Converted to shares, shareholding rises from 77% to 87%. If this is true then Roland is near the magic 90% of shares where he can sell 100% of the club because the buyers will have the right to squeeze out the minority shareholders. If Montgomery has the missing 3% then combined they would be in a position to sell a much neater ownership structure. I don't disagree with your analysis in a normal situation, here any buyer would have to have sphericals of metal to take out long term supporters who inherited their share from a departed parent. |
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Post by dibblydobbly on Oct 3, 2024 8:42:36 GMT 1
I suspect we will have to disagree now, sorry, but buying a business at this level in this industry is about control, not price per share, there is no price per share calculation to be done, as the buyer wants control, and hoovering up small shareholdings that mean a lot to people is counterproductive. Everyone is banging on about the financial side, I still think at Roland’s time of life making himself a profit is not that important to him as it might have been a decade ago. I believe he does want to find a genuine owner but also to maintain some influence in the club he does love. My criticism of Roland is it has taken him too many years to accept this is the right decision in the interest of STFC and has been procrastinating since 2014 …… It would be good to know the truth about the breakdown in the relationship of STFC, Greenhous (Roland and Derek Passant) . To me Greenhous are the perfect fit for our club and the answer to the financial difficulties. Passant has had over a decade to make a bid, with the club seeking investment throughout that period. There has not been even a rumour or a whisper of them doing so. Perhaps he is too smart to work for free in a loss making business where all your customers know how to do your job better than you and feel free to shout at you at any time. :-) |
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Post by Minormorris64 on Oct 3, 2024 9:40:18 GMT 1
The value of the club based on £2.50 per share is £4.6m. If the club were to be sold in January for £5.6m then Roland would be getting £3 per share and so will have made a very nice return of 20%. If the rumour of his £8m valuation is correct, and that is what he ends up getting for the club, then he would be getting £4.32 per share and a whopping 73% return. Of course if he cannot sell the club and we go into liquidation then he will only get the value of the assets less liabilities - whilst the accounts show that at £10.8m I don't think that the realisable value of the ground is really £14m so who knows what he'd get in the worst case scenario. £2.50 in 1997 is worth about a fiver today, start adding inflation to all the times shares were added and you might reach a different figure I wish I'd bought a house in 1997, put it that way Bought one in 1998, a house that is, not a Football Club |
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Post by Pilch on Oct 3, 2024 10:24:44 GMT 1
£2.50 in 1997 is worth about a fiver today, start adding inflation to all the times shares were added and you might reach a different figure I wish I'd bought a house in 1997, put it that way Bought one in 1998, a house that is, not a Football Club I hope your don't dare sell it for more than it was worth in 1998 🥳 |
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Post by vladimir on Oct 3, 2024 10:29:03 GMT 1
Was he working when the executives he appointed and had responsibility for did all the nefarious things they're accused of doing?
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Post by Minormorris64 on Oct 3, 2024 10:47:14 GMT 1
Bought one in 1998, a house that is, not a Football Club I hope your don't dare sell it for more than it was worth in 1998 🥳 Not been sold. |
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Post by davycrockett on Oct 3, 2024 11:04:06 GMT 1
just had a look and found this Thanks Pilch - I’ll check the latest Articles of Association 👍 I suspect the Chairman won’t be too pleased with you when I start the Class Action for compensation on behalf of all shareholders !! 👍😉 You might be the only shareholder that doesn’t know 😉 just think 5% off Sovereign Club membership could be a good return. |
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Post by dibblydobbly on Oct 3, 2024 11:55:16 GMT 1
Thanks Pilch - I’ll check the latest Articles of Association 👍 I suspect the Chairman won’t be too pleased with you when I start the Class Action for compensation on behalf of all shareholders !! 👍😉 You might be the only shareholder that doesn’t know 😉 just think 5% off Sovereign Club membership could be a good return. £25 invested over a decade ago and 5% off season tickets since? Seems to me the small shareholders have got a bargain there. |
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Post by DiglisShrew on Oct 3, 2024 11:58:04 GMT 1
You might be the only shareholder that doesn’t know 😉 just think 5% off Sovereign Club membership could be a good return. £25 invested over a decade ago and 5% off season tickets since? Seems to me the small shareholders have got a bargain there. Do you know where and how I can submit my backdated claim please ? 🤔😉 |
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Post by dibblydobbly on Oct 3, 2024 12:02:34 GMT 1
£25 invested over a decade ago and 5% off season tickets since? Seems to me the small shareholders have got a bargain there. Do you know where and how I can submit my backdated claim please ? 🤔😉 I believe you post it: For attention of SC, c/o Shareholder Special Treatment centre, North Pole, Lapland Usually takes about 89 days from today |
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Post by DiglisShrew on Oct 3, 2024 12:06:47 GMT 1
Do you know where and how I can submit my backdated claim please ? 🤔😉 I believe you post it: For attention of SC, c/o Shareholder Special Treatment centre, North Pole, Lapland Usually takes about 89 days from today You mean Santa Claus or Steve Cotterill ?? 😂 With hindsight it was a potentially over generous clause but made when desperate for cash - luckily for the club shareholders were never told about it !! |
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Post by davycrockett on Oct 3, 2024 12:07:30 GMT 1
You might be the only shareholder that doesn’t know 😉 just think 5% off Sovereign Club membership could be a good return. £25 invested over a decade ago and 5% off season tickets since? Seems to me the small shareholders have got a bargain there. We’re in agreement, that’s what I said, even better for Soverign members. Do we know if this happens automatically or do you have to apply? I’ve never heard it advertised, asking for a friend 😉 |
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Post by ssshrew on Oct 3, 2024 12:19:28 GMT 1
Well it certainly didn’t happen automatically for me. It’s the first I’ve heard of it.
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Post by dibblydobbly on Oct 3, 2024 12:28:51 GMT 1
Well it certainly didn’t happen automatically for me. It’s the first I’ve heard of it. To be fair I have no idea where Pilch got that from, it is not in the Articles of the Company at all, so is not a hard and fast rule |
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Post by DiglisShrew on Oct 3, 2024 12:43:21 GMT 1
Well it certainly didn’t happen automatically for me. It’s the first I’ve heard of it. To be fair I have no idea where Pilch got that from, it is not in the Articles of the Company at all, so is not a hard and fast rule Hi - it appears to have been removed from the Articles in 2013 🤔 |
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Post by Pilch on Oct 3, 2024 21:34:17 GMT 1
To be fair I have no idea where Pilch got that from, it is not in the Articles of the Company at all, so is not a hard and fast rule Hi - it appears to have been removed from the Articles in 2013 🤔 maybe put it to the test and see if you can get a ticket for brum next Tuesday for 95p ;-) |
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Post by DiglisShrew on Oct 3, 2024 23:56:30 GMT 1
Hi - it appears to have been removed from the Articles in 2013 🤔 maybe put it to the test and see if you can get a ticket for brum next Tuesday for 95p ;-) I wouldn’t attend on Tuesday if you gave me one !! |
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I am talking about the £2m in shares he has just bought at £2.5 each. 
