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Post by DiglisShrew on Oct 2, 2024 14:20:16 GMT 1
Time will tell, but Dooley sounded optimistic in his interview and the Star talks of there being three interested parties. There are now 1,850,513 shares and their nominal (face) value is £4,626,282 (ie £2.50 per share). The June 2023 accounts show a net asset value of £10,878,286 on the balance sheet (which would equate to £5.88 per share). Now, the net asset value isn't what a company's actually worth, but it's often not bad as a first glance rough indicator. That net asset value is also 15 months out of date now. It's also true that almost all the positive value of the company lies in its freehold property, and that's not a readily realisable value. There are plenty of reasons why the sale price might be significantly below what the club appears to be worth from its accounts. The other big factor is the state of the market for football clubs and I have no idea about that. I couldn't see anywhere what Nordic Football Group paid for Burton Albion in June, which might have been a useful guide. Is Shrewsbury Town worth more than £4.6m? I'd have thought so, but we'll see. I tried to buy a shareholders shares last week he played hard to get, didnt give me a price, clearly wanted more than they were worth and in the end he fell out with me ;-) He said he’d wait to know the up to date state of the company and the potential offer price - need to do the due diligence 🤔 I understand he didn’t fall out with you just your B & A alter ego!! 😉 |
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Oct 2, 2024 14:21:49 GMT 1
Because it belonged to the club? He's not an asset stripper. I know, I just thought it was going to be a bit of an appreciation thread and a nice post to add ;-) When he leaves the entire value of Gay Meadow which used to belong to the people of Shrewsbury will be in private ownership of the Wycherley family. It all depends on how you spin the same story. |
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Post by Pilch on Oct 2, 2024 14:23:37 GMT 1
I tried to buy a shareholders shares last week he played hard to get, didnt give me a price, clearly wanted more than they were worth and in the end he fell out with me ;-) He said he’d wait to know the up to date state of the company and the potential offer price - need to do the due diligence 🤔 I understand he didn’t fall out with you just your B & A alter ego!! 😉 time to sell  |
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Post by Pilch on Oct 2, 2024 14:24:47 GMT 1
I know, I just thought it was going to be a bit of an appreciation thread and a nice post to add ;-) When he leaves the entire value of Gay Meadow which used to belong to the people of Shrewsbury will be in private ownership of the Wycherley family. It all depends on how you spin the same story. like I said , I was playing along with it being a fun appreciation thread, before the inevitable happened fun died on here years ago |
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Post by DiglisShrew on Oct 2, 2024 14:38:12 GMT 1
When he leaves the entire value of Gay Meadow which used to belong to the people of Shrewsbury will be in private ownership of the Wycherley family. It all depends on how you spin the same story. like I said , I was playing along with it being a fun appreciation thread, before the inevitable happened fun died on here years ago Same old - same old !! 🙄😉 |
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Post by mattmw on Oct 2, 2024 16:01:27 GMT 1
Good post. I think the big risk factor is whether there is realistically an alternative buyer will to meet that £2.50 valuation or more My gut feeling is that value is more than the market is willing to pay - so without a buyer won’t more money need to go in and keep the business running, but at the same time make that £2.50 a share value far less likely to achieve - so you end up in a declining circle of putting more money into a business without making it more attractive to buyers A bit like the government subsidising a failing industry it seems like the right thing to do, but might be building up future problems and actually reducing the chances of future investment from new sources Time will tell, but Dooley sounded optimistic in his interview and the Star talks of there being three interested parties. There are now 1,850,513 shares and their nominal (face) value is £4,626,282 (ie £2.50 per share). The June 2023 accounts show a net asset value of £10,878,286 on the balance sheet (which would equate to £5.88 per share). Now, the net asset value isn't what a company's actually worth, but it's often not bad as a first glance rough indicator. That net asset value is also 15 months out of date now. It's also true that almost all the positive value of the company lies in its freehold property, and that's not a readily realisable value. There are plenty of reasons why the sale price might be significantly below what the club appears to be worth from its accounts. The other big factor is the state of the market for football clubs and I have no idea about that. I couldn't see anywhere what Nordic Football Group paid for Burton Albion in June, which might have been a useful guide. Is Shrewsbury Town worth more than £4.6m? I'd have thought so, but we'll see. Thanks this makes a lot of sense. The realistic sales price would seem to be between about £3.5 million to £6 million, dependent I guess on the aims and aspirations of the new buyer. The overall company asset may have a much higher value but as raising finance from that asset is difficult buying it at £6-£10 million would either need someone with deep pockets or a very benevolent benefactor not that concerned about making a profit from their investment |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2024 16:28:04 GMT 1
Very interesting timing from RW as well :-)
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Post by Rusholme Ruffian on Oct 2, 2024 16:52:13 GMT 1
I am not very financially literate but if RW put in £2m and that only increased his shareholding by 10 %, surely that isn't going to benefit him that well financially?
A failing and probably soon to be relegated league one club with a limited fanbase surely isn't worth more than a few million, but RW has put £2m in just recently and possibly will carry on doing so to keep it solvent.
How is he making any genuine money from this?
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Post by darkshrew on Oct 2, 2024 17:05:12 GMT 1
I think that it would be a bit disingenuous to say that the club does not need to repay the loans - if he wanted to gift the money he could have done exactly that and he would have just written off the loan. Roland has used this cash to increase his holding in the club - I cannot think of any share purchase for one's own benefit that has been, or could ever be, a truly philanthropic action.
If Roland believes that the club's shares are worth more than £2.50 a piece then this is some way away from charity and could be seen as a gamble as it does represent a fair degree of risk. If this is the case then I take my hat off to him for supporting the club financially through tricky times and having big enough balls to bet £2m on being able to sell the club.
However, if Roland knows that the club's shares are worth more than £2.50 a piece because he has knowledge of an offer made to buy the club that values the shares in excess of £2.50; then that is a whole different situation and not one that I'd be comfortable explaining to the minority shareholders if I were him.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Oct 2, 2024 17:54:17 GMT 1
Do you mean he's bought them at face value and will sell them above that in his valuation of the whole club?
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Post by Pilch on Oct 2, 2024 18:18:29 GMT 1
Do you mean he's bought them at face value and will sell them above that in his valuation of the whole club? do shareholders still get a 5% discount on their season tickets ? |
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 2, 2024 18:30:10 GMT 1
Seems he put up 2mollion, seems he wont get anything back, not even interest, until the club is sold. Thank you Mr Wycherley. I hope the next owner loves the club enough to do that.
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Post by gtismygod on Oct 2, 2024 18:38:00 GMT 1
Why are people praising the Chairman?
The cash that he loaned to the club has just been converted to shares so that it doesn’t show as a liability on the balance sheet. He hasn’t lost out in any way.
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Post by Pilch on Oct 2, 2024 18:43:01 GMT 1
Why are people praising the Chairman? The cash that he loaned to the club has just been converted to shares so that it doesn’t show as a liability on the balance sheet. He hasn’t lost out in any way. I think maybe we should all invest our life savings in return for these special "guaranteed no loss shares" it would help the club too no brainer |
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Post by DiglisShrew on Oct 2, 2024 18:48:59 GMT 1
Why are people praising the Chairman? The cash that he loaned to the club has just been converted to shares so that it doesn’t show as a liability on the balance sheet. He hasn’t lost out in any way. I think maybe we should all invest our life savings in return for these special "guaranteed no loss shares" it would help the club too no brainer The club could have done a share issue open to all shareholders at any time but were told “it would be difficult “ 🤔 |
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Post by Pilch on Oct 2, 2024 19:13:07 GMT 1
Do you mean he's bought them at face value and will sell them above that in his valuation of the whole club? do shareholders still get a 5% discount on their season tickets ? anyone ? |
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Post by dachshund on Oct 2, 2024 19:48:05 GMT 1
When it comes to converting these ‘loans’ to shares (which somehow the Star seem to think is a magnificent act of philanthropy) is it not also fairly obvious that this whole exercise protects the value of the asset, and therefore his cash-out?
Letting the club go bust (under his own stewardship) was the alternative. The view that this is a very generous sequence of events seems to ignore the enormous losses he’d incur by doing that.
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Post by dibblydobbly on Oct 2, 2024 19:54:37 GMT 1
When it comes to converting these ‘loans’ to shares (which somehow the Star seem to think is a magnificent act of philanthropy) is it not also fairly obvious that this whole exercise protects the value of the asset, and therefore his cash-out? Letting the club go bust (under his own stewardship) was the alternative. The view that this is a very generous sequence of events seems to ignore the enormous losses he’d incur by doing that. By converting loans to shares it means he has put it at risk as part of the capital of the club. Keeping it as a loan means it ranks in front of shareholders if anything goes wrong. It also strengthens the balance sheet and means that on audit the club do not have to count the loan as part of a going concern calculation. The going concern calculation will take in to accounts debt and debt servicing costs, and probablity of repayment. We all know the club cannot repay 2.1million in the short term, so the act protects the club from Audit issues, and further safeguards the club by reducing creditors. |
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Post by DiglisShrew on Oct 2, 2024 20:04:48 GMT 1
do shareholders still get a 5% discount on their season tickets ? anyone ? Do the Board get 100% discount on theirs ? 🤔😉 I assume they will be paid up members of the Sovereign Club though ? |
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Post by Pilch on Oct 2, 2024 20:10:07 GMT 1
Do the Board get 100% discount on theirs ? 🤔😉 not bad £20+ off a season ticket , good little investment that every year for 28 years, far better than a dividend ;-) you save more money than the board, who get zero off their ticket price  |
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Post by DiglisShrew on Oct 2, 2024 20:17:45 GMT 1
Do the Board get 100% discount on theirs ? 🤔😉 not bad £20+ off a season ticket , good little investment that every year for 28 years, far better than a dividend ;-) you save more money than the board, who get zero off their ticket price Sorry , missed the point of your question - shareholders get NO discount on anything and never have !! Only perk is a cup of coffee and a couple of biscuits 🍪 at the AGM . |
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Post by Pilch on Oct 2, 2024 20:20:04 GMT 1
not bad £20+ off a season ticket , good little investment that every year for 28 years, far better than a dividend ;-) you save more money than the board, who get zero off their ticket price Sorry , missed the point of your question - shareholders get NO discount on anything and never have !! Only perk is a cup of coffee and a couple of biscuits 🍪 at the AGM . oh , I must have dreamt that then , imagine if it was a thing and you hadn't realised though ;-) |
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Post by DiglisShrew on Oct 2, 2024 20:20:25 GMT 1
not bad £20+ off a season ticket , good little investment that every year for 28 years, far better than a dividend ;-) you save more money than the board, who get zero off their ticket price Sorry , missed the point of your question - shareholders get NO discount on anything and never have !! Only perk is a cup of coffee and a couple of biscuits 🍪 at the AGM . When was the last time the Board paid for tickets and hospitality both home and away ? I suspect on very few occasions 🤔 |
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Post by Pilch on Oct 2, 2024 20:28:58 GMT 1
Sorry , missed the point of your question - shareholders get NO discount on anything and never have !! Only perk is a cup of coffee and a couple of biscuits 🍪 at the AGM . When was the last time the Board paid for tickets and hospitality both home and away ? I suspect on very few occasions 🤔 just had a look and found this Attachments:
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 2, 2024 20:39:39 GMT 1
Why are people praising the Chairman? The cash that he loaned to the club has just been converted to shares so that it doesn’t show as a liability on the balance sheet. He hasn’t lost out in any way. Average yearly increase on the stock market - around 7% Interest on savings around 4 or 5 % a year. So on £2Million, that's a sizeable sum he's losing each month, even after any tax is paid. Depending on the price he sells for, he could lose some, he could break even, or he could make money on his new shares, but no gaurantee.
How much interest is he saving the club by them not having to service a £2 million pound loan?
Well done Roland.
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Post by darkshrew on Oct 2, 2024 21:56:29 GMT 1
Do you mean he's bought them at face value and will sell them above that in his valuation of the whole club? The value of the club based on £2.50 per share is £4.6m. If the club were to be sold in January for £5.6m then Roland would be getting £3 per share and so will have made a very nice return of 20%. If the rumour of his £8m valuation is correct, and that is what he ends up getting for the club, then he would be getting £4.32 per share and a whopping 73% return. Of course if he cannot sell the club and we go into liquidation then he will only get the value of the assets less liabilities - whilst the accounts show that at £10.8m I don't think that the realisable value of the ground is really £14m so who knows what he'd get in the worst case scenario. |
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Post by ssshrew on Oct 2, 2024 22:01:49 GMT 1
Well I’ve never had a discount because I have some shares nor have I ever been notified that I was entitled to.
Still I don’t have a huge number so perhaps it doesn’t count!
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Post by dibblydobbly on Oct 2, 2024 22:06:17 GMT 1
Do you mean he's bought them at face value and will sell them above that in his valuation of the whole club? The value of the club based on £2.50 per share is £4.6m. If the club were to be sold in January for £5.6m then Roland would be getting £3 per share and so will have made a very nice return of 20%. If the rumour of his £8m valuation is correct, and that is what he ends up getting for the club, then he would be getting £4.32 per share and a whopping 73% return. Of course if he cannot sell the club and we go into liquidation then he will only get the value of the assets less liabilities - whilst the accounts show that at £10.8m I don't think that the realisable value of the ground is really £14m so who knows what he'd get in the worst case scenario. Close but: In a normal deal there is a working capital adjustment so if there is 2.1m of debt it comes off the price, as the company will have to repay it,as part of the deal, but by converting to shares the shareholder would be paid for shares whereas in the alternative the price per share would be less BUT the holder of the loan gets that repaid also. So it nets to the same thing - Loan repaid plus old shares or new shares plus old shares, normally |
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Post by DiglisShrew on Oct 2, 2024 22:11:41 GMT 1
When was the last time the Board paid for tickets and hospitality both home and away ? I suspect on very few occasions 🤔 just had a look and found this Thanks Pilch - I’ll check the latest Articles of Association 👍 I suspect the Chairman won’t be too pleased with you when I start the Class Action for compensation on behalf of all shareholders !! 👍😉 |
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Post by darkshrew on Oct 2, 2024 22:17:04 GMT 1
The value of the club based on £2.50 per share is £4.6m. If the club were to be sold in January for £5.6m then Roland would be getting £3 per share and so will have made a very nice return of 20%. If the rumour of his £8m valuation is correct, and that is what he ends up getting for the club, then he would be getting £4.32 per share and a whopping 73% return. Of course if he cannot sell the club and we go into liquidation then he will only get the value of the assets less liabilities - whilst the accounts show that at £10.8m I don't think that the realisable value of the ground is really £14m so who knows what he'd get in the worst case scenario. Close but: In a normal deal there is a working capital adjustment so if there is 2.1m of debt it comes off the price, as the company will have to repay it,as part of the deal, but by converting to shares the shareholder would be paid for shares whereas in the alternative the price per share would be less BUT the holder of the loan gets that repaid also. So it nets to the same thing - Loan repaid plus old shares or new shares plus old shares, normally Mmm; have worked in M&A for more than 30 years - there is nothing that can be considered normal in a deal with regard to the valuation of assets and liabilities that is why you have a DD and two usually completely different valuations. The only certainties that you have in a deal are the price paid per share and the number of shares acquired. |
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