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Post by gtismygod on Aug 30, 2024 15:19:05 GMT 1
Caveat: this thread involves a lot of guesswork, and should be taken with a pinch of salt, but...
I've been watching on in amazement/despair/disbelief with everyone else, as PH has more or less confirmed that there won't be any more signings made today, despite the fact that we are desperate for centre-halves, as well as cover at right-back. Where has the playing budget been spent? The squad is cheap, threadbare, and full of loanees. Take out the goalkeepers and loan players, and incredibly, we only have NINE outfield first-team players contracted to the club...
Below is a comparison of weekly salaries between PH's squad for the second half of last season, and his squad for this season, which I've put together using a combination of common sense, online research and B&A rumours. Although I am interested to hear if anybody does think I'm well out on any of these?
There have been whispers that Marosi was actually on upwards of £6k, which I can't believe. I've assumed he was the top earner on c.£5k.
I've generously assumed that we were paying Sraha, Sobowale and Idowu next to nothing last season as " development players".
As Moore confirmed loan players cost us "barely anything", I've assumed a £200 contribution for the young loan players from Premier League clubs who simply don't need salary contributions from the likes of us. I've also assumed that we'd have agreed to contribute far more towards the salaries of the likes of Anderson, Kenneh and Kayode.
There have been whispers that none of this season's signings have been offered anything upwards of £3k, which seems believable. I've assumed that Marquis is the highest earner amongst the new signings.
Players who remain on the same contract (and presumably the same salary) as last year have been struck through.
Players on loan are highlighted blue.
Players offered new contracts (and presumably increased salaries) are highlighted green.
Price is highlighted red, as I have absolutely no idea what the financial arrangement would have been.
My rough figures suggest that we're currently spending around a third less than last season.
2023/24
Marosi £5,000.00
Burgoyne £1,400.00
Feeney £2,600.00
Pierre £1,000.00
Dunkley £4,700.00
Sraha £1,000.00
Flanagan £3,800.00
Anderson £1,900.00
Benning £1,300.00
Nurse £1,200.00
Bennett £1,600.00
Sobowale £900.00
Winchester £3,300.00
Perry £1,400.00
Price £1,500.00
Bayliss £3,900.00
Idowu £800.00
Kenneh £2,100.00
Hinchy £200.00
Shipley £4,200.00
Bloxham £1,100.00
Tulloch £700.00
Udoh £2,100.00
Bowman £2,400.00
O'Brien £3,900.00
£54,000.00
2024/25
Savin £2,500.00
Young £1,500.00
Feeney £2,600.00
Pierre £1,400.00
Feeney £200.00
Nsiala £1,100.00
Benning £2,000.00
Nurse £1,200.00
Hoole £2,200.00
Winchester £3,300.00
Perry £1,400.00
Rossiter £2,700.00
Biggins £1,800.00
Castledine £200.00
Shipley £4,200.00
Bloxham £1,100.00
O'Reilly £200.00
Sagoe Jr £200.00
Marquis £3,000.00
Kayode £2,000.00
Lloyd £1,400.00
£36,200.00
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2024 15:29:19 GMT 1
How have you got those figures?
Do remember in the final results everything is Steve Cotterills and Brian Caldwells fault :-)
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Post by gtismygod on Aug 30, 2024 15:40:16 GMT 1
How have you got those figures? Do remember in the final results everything is Steve Cotterills and Brian Caldwells fault :-) All guesstimates really. But does make me think that the club’s financial position really is worse than we all think. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2024 15:51:40 GMT 1
The Club has likely offered more for people like Savin, Lloyd, Biggins, Marquis and Hoole than other clubs - so there must be something available.
I'm not saying its all rosy at all,
How much would Micky Moore be on and the other CEO hangers onners.
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Post by Pilch on Aug 30, 2024 16:08:21 GMT 1
How have you got those figures? Do remember in the final results everything is Steve Cotterills and Brian Caldwells fault :-) All guesstimates really. But does make me think that the club’s financial position really is worse than we all think. The original budget(s) isn't the issue , it was the manipulation to included add ons into contracts that were hidden from those who pay the wages , they got through after blatant lies were told and trust broken , call it what you like , blame who you like but that's what happened That's why for getting of for 2 years after the clubs cash had been depleted the chairman has had to write a £100k cheque each month to pay staff and prevent us having a points deduction , all those cries for just give him a bigger budget must haunt the club at the moment Im guessing he's no longer writing that cheque each month which means we are back to where we were before sc arrived , a manager having to work with a budget that is sustainable and nothing more , wouldnt have been so bad had the guy got us promoted but the best he could manage was 3 places higher than Sam's 15th , and that with dull boring backs to the wall crazy gang style football ( is it really a few days since we've done this debate ) 😝😝😝 I didnt even mention the off the field spending, SC treating the players like top premier stars, and Brian treating himself like a rock star thats why we are where we are now, decades of hard work p**sed up the wall |
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Post by Pilch on Aug 30, 2024 17:05:16 GMT 1
Caveat: this thread involves a lot of guesswork, and should be taken with a pinch of salt, but...I've been watching on in amazement/despair/disbelief with everyone else, as PH has more or less confirmed that there won't be any more signings made today, despite the fact that we are desperate for centre-halves, as well as cover at right-back. Where has the playing budget been spent? The squad is cheap, threadbare, and full of loanees. Take out the goalkeepers and loan players, and incredibly, we only have NINE outfield first-team players contracted to the club... Below is a comparison of weekly salaries between PH's squad for the second half of last season, and his squad for this season, which I've put together using a combination of common sense, online research and B&A rumours. Although I am interested to hear if anybody does think I'm well out on any of these? There have been whispers that Marosi was actually on upwards of £6k, which I can't believe. I've assumed he was the top earner on c.£5k. I've generously assumed that we were paying Sraha, Sobowale and Idowu next to nothing last season as " development players". As Moore confirmed loan players cost us "barely anything", I've assumed a £200 contribution for the young loan players from Premier League clubs who simply don't need salary contributions from the likes of us. I've also assumed that we'd have agreed to contribute far more towards the salaries of the likes of Anderson, Kenneh and Kayode. There have been whispers that none of this season's signings have been offered anything upwards of £3k, which seems believable. I've assumed that Marquis is the highest earner amongst the new signings. Players who remain on the same contract (and presumably the same salary) as last year have been struck through.
Players on loan are highlighted blue.
Players offered new contracts (and presumably increased salaries) are highlighted green.
Price is highlighted red, as I have absolutely no idea what the financial arrangement would have been.
My rough figures suggest that we're currently spending around a third less than last season. 2023/24
Marosi £5,000.00 Burgoyne £1,400.00 Feeney £2,600.00
Pierre £1,000.00 Dunkley £4,700.00 Sraha £1,000.00 Flanagan £3,800.00 Anderson £1,900.00
Benning £1,300.00 Nurse £1,200.00
Bennett £1,600.00 Sobowale £900.00 Winchester £3,300.00
Perry £1,400.00
Price £1,500.00
Bayliss £3,900.00 Idowu £800.00 Kenneh £2,100.00
Hinchy £200.00
Shipley £4,200.00
Bloxham £1,100.00
Tulloch £700.00 Udoh £2,100.00 Bowman £2,400.00 O'Brien £3,900.00 £54,000.00
2024/25
Savin £2,500.00 Young £1,500.00 Feeney £2,600.00
Pierre £1,400.00
Feeney £200.00
Nsiala £1,100.00 Benning £2,000.00
Nurse £1,200.00
Hoole £2,200.00 Winchester £3,300.00
Perry £1,400.00
Rossiter £2,700.00 Biggins £1,800.00 Castledine £200.00 Shipley £4,200.00
Bloxham £1,100.00
O'Reilly £200.00
Sagoe Jr £200.00
Marquis £3,000.00 Kayode £2,000.00
Lloyd £1,400.00 £36,200.00 I know you are guessing, but to suggest we pay one loanee £2k, a guy who is our own £1.4k and others just 200 quid I dont get it, nice to see pierre got a pay rise of 40% this season too ;-0 |
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Post by gtismygod on Aug 30, 2024 17:21:14 GMT 1
Caveat: this thread involves a lot of guesswork, and should be taken with a pinch of salt, but...I've been watching on in amazement/despair/disbelief with everyone else, as PH has more or less confirmed that there won't be any more signings made today, despite the fact that we are desperate for centre-halves, as well as cover at right-back. Where has the playing budget been spent? The squad is cheap, threadbare, and full of loanees. Take out the goalkeepers and loan players, and incredibly, we only have NINE outfield first-team players contracted to the club... Below is a comparison of weekly salaries between PH's squad for the second half of last season, and his squad for this season, which I've put together using a combination of common sense, online research and B&A rumours. Although I am interested to hear if anybody does think I'm well out on any of these? There have been whispers that Marosi was actually on upwards of £6k, which I can't believe. I've assumed he was the top earner on c.£5k. I've generously assumed that we were paying Sraha, Sobowale and Idowu next to nothing last season as " development players". As Moore confirmed loan players cost us "barely anything", I've assumed a £200 contribution for the young loan players from Premier League clubs who simply don't need salary contributions from the likes of us. I've also assumed that we'd have agreed to contribute far more towards the salaries of the likes of Anderson, Kenneh and Kayode. There have been whispers that none of this season's signings have been offered anything upwards of £3k, which seems believable. I've assumed that Marquis is the highest earner amongst the new signings. Players who remain on the same contract (and presumably the same salary) as last year have been struck through.
Players on loan are highlighted blue.
Players offered new contracts (and presumably increased salaries) are highlighted green.
Price is highlighted red, as I have absolutely no idea what the financial arrangement would have been.
My rough figures suggest that we're currently spending around a third less than last season. 2023/24
Marosi £5,000.00 Burgoyne £1,400.00 Feeney £2,600.00
Pierre £1,000.00 Dunkley £4,700.00 Sraha £1,000.00 Flanagan £3,800.00 Anderson £1,900.00
Benning £1,300.00 Nurse £1,200.00
Bennett £1,600.00 Sobowale £900.00 Winchester £3,300.00
Perry £1,400.00
Price £1,500.00
Bayliss £3,900.00 Idowu £800.00 Kenneh £2,100.00
Hinchy £200.00
Shipley £4,200.00
Bloxham £1,100.00
Tulloch £700.00 Udoh £2,100.00 Bowman £2,400.00 O'Brien £3,900.00 £54,000.00
2024/25
Savin £2,500.00 Young £1,500.00 Feeney £2,600.00
Pierre £1,400.00
Feeney £200.00
Nsiala £1,100.00 Benning £2,000.00
Nurse £1,200.00
Hoole £2,200.00 Winchester £3,300.00
Perry £1,400.00
Rossiter £2,700.00 Biggins £1,800.00 Castledine £200.00 Shipley £4,200.00
Bloxham £1,100.00
O'Reilly £200.00
Sagoe Jr £200.00
Marquis £3,000.00 Kayode £2,000.00
Lloyd £1,400.00 £36,200.00 I know you are guessing, but to suggest we pay one loanee £2k, a guy who is our own £1.4k and others just 200 quid I dont get it, nice to see pierre got a pay rise of 40% this season too ;-0 Don’t think any of those will be far wrong. £2k/week towards Kayode, as I imagine Rotherham would have demanded some sort of decent contribution. It’s not the same as loaning kids from Prem sides. How much do you think Lloyd is on? Released by relegated Cheltenham after scoring two goals all season. Taylor signed Pierre as a free agent, and he was probably considered emergency cover. Became a bit of a regular when he was fit in the second half of last season, so I imagine his new contract would’ve allowed for a pay rise of some description. The loanees from Prem sides are £200/week as Moore confirmed they cost “barely anything”. All about game time. |
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Post by Pilch on Aug 30, 2024 17:31:48 GMT 1
I know you are guessing, but to suggest we pay one loanee £2k, a guy who is our own £1.4k and others just 200 quid I dont get it, nice to see pierre got a pay rise of 40% this season too ;-0 Don’t think any of those will be far wrong. £2k/week towards Kayode, as I imagine Rotherham would have demanded some sort of decent contribution. It’s not the same as loaning kids from Prem sides. How much do you think Lloyd is on? Released by relegated Cheltenham after scoring two goals all season. Taylor signed Pierre as a free agent, and he was probably considered emergency cover. Became a bit of a regular when he was fit in the second half of last season, so I imagine his new contract would’ve allowed for a pay rise of some description. The loanees from Prem sides are £200/week as Moore confirmed they cost “barely anything”. All about game time. well I think you have convinced yourself at least ;-) |
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Post by mattmw on Aug 30, 2024 18:12:35 GMT 1
Think another factor in considering the budget is that inflation elsewhere in the league means if our budget is still the same as 2 seasons ago, we've lost a fair bit of ground on the other sides whose spending is rocketing despite all the fears about finances. Where a player was on £2000 a week two seasons ago thats probably nearer £2500 to £3000 a week to secure the player now.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2024 20:31:55 GMT 1
There is also the tried and tested logic that you get what you pay for.
Marosi played better than a 5k a week goalkeeper most weeks last season.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2024 20:55:01 GMT 1
Good attempt at trying to quantify the level of reduction, obviously guesswork but the logic is sound.
Simply put, we’re clearly a lot of high earners down this year, and even a conservative effort of a £10k reduction per week translates as over half a million pound saved on the years wage bill. But at what cost?
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Post by Pilch on Aug 30, 2024 23:16:04 GMT 1
Good attempt at trying to quantify the level of reduction, obviously guesswork but the logic is sound. Simply put, we’re clearly a lot of high earners down this year, and even a conservative effort of a £10k reduction per week translates as over half a million pound saved on the years wage bill. But at what cost? You need to go back just a little further and ask questions about the overspending at what cost At what cost is last season , this season , next season , how's that for starters ( we are already in , at what cost ) |
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Post by greeny on Aug 31, 2024 0:35:03 GMT 1
Hey Google, show me an example of “Pie in the sky”.
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Post by Rusholme Ruffian on Aug 31, 2024 7:33:30 GMT 1
As you say it's guesswork, but I agree that it very much looks like there has been a cut to wage budget, which as we know was already small for this league shows why most predictions put down town as 24th.
Also worth recognising at this team last year there was Fleming, Finnigan, Phillips and Thorpe. Who were all got sent back in Jan (although I wonder if they didn't get off completely financially).
Just looking at Port Vales squad as Ojo wasn't even getting a game there, and I'm struggling to see any real difference. The only difference I can see is the quality of towns loans are better. The permanent players look of the same quality, if not better than town. And this is a team who have won 1 out of 3 games in league two so far
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Post by Pilch on Aug 31, 2024 7:55:11 GMT 1
As you say it's guesswork, but I agree that it very much looks like there has been a cut to wage budget, which as we know was already small for this league shows why most predictions put down town as 24th. Also worth recognising at this team last year there was Fleming, Finnigan, Phillips and Thorpe. Who were all got sent back in Jan (although I wonder if they didn't get off completely financially). Just looking at Port Vales squad as Ojo wasn't even getting a game there, and I'm struggling to see any real difference. The only difference I can see is the quality of towns loans are better. The permanent players look of the same quality, if not better than town. And this is a team who have won 1 out of 3 games in league two so far This is the kind of budget that all of our managers have had to deal with , one exception being a guy who ignored the rules and warnings and cheated the system to give himself a much larger budget , and when he got found out and was told to play by the rules he point blank refused and was sacked the real strange thing is some fans still like him 😐 |
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Post by Stowmarket Shrew on Aug 31, 2024 9:41:12 GMT 1
Good attempt at trying to quantify the level of reduction, obviously guesswork but the logic is sound. Simply put, we’re clearly a lot of high earners down this year, and even a conservative effort of a £10k reduction per week translates as over half a million pound saved on the years wage bill. But at what cost? Well, what cost if we didn't? Possibly no club to support. We have no right to be anything other than playing at whatever level we can afford. Some blame Cotterill and Caldwell, I blame Roland as the guy at the top, but whatever the reason for the position we're in, we can't run an unsustainable football club. I blame Roland for the fact that over the last few years we clearly have done that, and now we're paying the price. Everything works in cycles in football, we all know that. We're at the end of the current cycle. We have a budget that, compared to many other clubs, probably places us in the lower mid table of league 2. For many of us, that's a pretty familiar place but you get what you pay for, and Roland's overspend over the past few years is having consequential effects. Bluntly, and frustratingly, but that's where we'll be, next season, at our level, barely competitive team in league 2 but at least we'll have a team to support. |
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Post by Valerioch on Aug 31, 2024 9:45:52 GMT 1
As you say it's guesswork, but I agree that it very much looks like there has been a cut to wage budget, which as we know was already small for this league shows why most predictions put down town as 24th. Also worth recognising at this team last year there was Fleming, Finnigan, Phillips and Thorpe. Who were all got sent back in Jan (although I wonder if they didn't get off completely financially). Just looking at Port Vales squad as Ojo wasn't even getting a game there, and I'm struggling to see any real difference. The only difference I can see is the quality of towns loans are better. The permanent players look of the same quality, if not better than town. And this is a team who have won 1 out of 3 games in league two so far This is the kind of budget that all of our managers have had to deal with , one exception being a guy who ignored the rules and warnings and cheated the system to give himself a much larger budget , and when he got found out and was told to play by the rules he point blank refused and was sacked the real strange thing is some fans still like him 😐 If you think our real terms, inflationary adjusted budget this season is the same as what Turner had 2010-2012 and Mellon 2014-2016, to pick just two examples, then I don't know where to start. We literally have 9 senior outfield players signed on permanently, gross mismanagement and the buck stops at the top On your final point, bar the 17/18 season he brought us our best season by some distance in 30 years (excluding the grossly and laughably artificially inflated Covid season), big away wins like 0-3 Rotherham, 0-4 Burton, cup runs to Anfield, not to mention performing a miracle to keep us up during his Covid battle. Charismatic, straight talking, no nonsense and passionate - doubt we'll be get another like that any time soon sadly |
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Post by Pilch on Aug 31, 2024 9:52:15 GMT 1
There is also the tried and tested logic that you get what you pay for. Marosi played better than a 5k a week goalkeeper most weeks last season. did he ? he might have been above average on 1 on 1 saves for league 1 but his distribution was non league, and coming out from crosses he was like a mummy strapped in bandages ;-) my hunch is he's not had a better off this season than what we offered him and his stubbornness to accept thats all he is really worth has left him in no mans land |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2024 11:02:23 GMT 1
There is also the tried and tested logic that you get what you pay for. Marosi played better than a 5k a week goalkeeper most weeks last season. did he ? he might have been above average on 1 on 1 saves for league 1 but his distribution was non league, and coming out from crosses he was like a mummy strapped in bandages ;-) my hunch is he's not had a better off this season than what we offered him and his stubbornness to accept thats all he is really worth has left him in no mans land I wonder if he has been badly advised by his agent or did he believe his own hype? Whatever it is he's ended up siting on the sidelines with no earnings coming in. |
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Post by Pilch on Aug 31, 2024 11:18:13 GMT 1
This is the kind of budget that all of our managers have had to deal with , one exception being a guy who ignored the rules and warnings and cheated the system to give himself a much larger budget , and when he got found out and was told to play by the rules he point blank refused and was sacked the real strange thing is some fans still like him 😐 If you think our real terms, inflationary adjusted budget this season is the same as what Turner had 2010-2012 and Mellon 2014-2016, to pick just two examples, then I don't know where to start. We literally have 9 senior outfield players signed on permanently, gross mismanagement and the buck stops at the top On your final point, bar the 17/18 season he brought us our best season by some distance in 30 years (excluding the grossly and laughably artificially inflated Covid season), big away wins like 0-3 Rotherham, 0-4 Burton, cup runs to Anfield, not to mention performing a miracle to keep us up during his Covid battle. Charismatic, straight talking, no nonsense and passionate - doubt we'll be get another like that any time soon sadly just to amuse you and bore everyone else how could I forget the cup run to Anfield , what an amazing run to get there which was coming from behind to a beat a national league north side and then shocking relegation threatened league 2 Carlisle I also remember big home defeats like 0-3 to Ipswich, 0-4 to port vale, 0-3 to Fleetwood 0-3 to Sheffield weds, 0-3 to p'boro 1-4 to Lincoln, 0-3 to Plymouth , oh and the 6-0 chastening away to Charlton |
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