Outdoor smoking ban.

[northwestman]

Fine by me. I had to wait far too long before they finally banned it in sports stadiums.

I used to dread who was likely to be sitting in front of me when watching Test Cricket from a designated seat. I've had pipe smokers and cigarette chain smokers in front of me and they ruined my day. The smoke almost invariably blew back in my face.

www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/aug/29/starmer-faces-pushback-from-pubs-over-bonkers-outdoor-smoking-curbs

The proposals, not denied by the prime minister, would potentially prohibit tobacco use outside pubs and restaurants, including on pavements. The restrictions would come on top of existing plans to gradually outlaw smoking year by year.

[GrizzlyShrew]

Hmmm so Starmer reduces the tax a little from the smoking fraternity. Wonder where else he is going to make up the revenue from the taxation.

He has clobbered the pensioners already, now this.

I'm a non smoker but smoking outside has never really been an issue with anyone close to where I am.

Never wanted the clown to be in charge of the country, but now he is he is showing just what an idiot he is.

[Valerioch]

Another stupid policy, things work fine as they do now

[The Shropshire Tenor]

A continuation of the policy of the previous government isn’t it?

Over the past few years I have somehow become allergic to cigarette smoke, so I’ll be very happy to be able to sit outside a pub without the danger of being sent into coughing fits.

[pughywasfree]

ITS OUTSIDE!

Complete madness.

I get it in stadiums as you are forced to be close to people but in beer gardens etc its completely optional how close you are to a smoker.

[Deleted]

Aug 29, 2024 22:16:21 GMT 1 The Shropshire Tenor said:

A continuation of the policy of the previous government isn’t it?

Over the past few years I have somehow become allergic to cigarette smoke, so I’ll be very happy to be able to sit outside a pub without the danger of being sent into coughing fits.

... Don't get too comfortable as sitting outside a pub drinking alcohol will be banned within a generation.

[Pilch]

I'm convinced I have a bad chest from years of passive smoking , used to cough terrible the morning after a smoky night in a pub , never have once since it was banned , Don't have a problem with those smoking cigs outside , however I kind of get annoyed at times having to share someone's smelly vape whether I like it or not

[GrizzlyShrew]

Aug 29, 2024 22:23:58 GMT 1 pughywasfree said:

ITS OUTSIDE!

Complete madness.

I get it in stadiums as you are forced to be close to people but in beer gardens etc its completely optional how close you are to a smoker.

I agree. And as a non smoker myself I dont see that it's an issue when you are outside.

Absolutely bonkers.

[Pilch]

I asked A.I. to compose a limerick about a man called starmer who wanted to ban smoking outside

There once was a man named Starmer,
Who thought smoking outdoors caused drama,
He pushed for a ban,
Across all the land,
But folks said, "That’s going too far, sir!"

[northwestman]

Aug 29, 2024 22:33:24 GMT 1 Pilch said:

I'm convinced I have a bad chest from years of passive smoking , used to cough terrible the morning after a smoky night in a pub , never have once since it was banned , Don't have a problem with those smoking cigs outside , however I kind of get annoyed at times having to share someone's smelly vape whether I like it or not

I've now got COPD even though I've never smoked a cigarette in my life.

I put that down to passive smoking.

[GrizzlyShrew]

Aug 29, 2024 23:12:12 GMT 1 northwestman said:

Aug 29, 2024 22:33:24 GMT 1 Pilch said:

I'm convinced I have a bad chest from years of passive smoking , used to cough terrible the morning after a smoky night in a pub , never have once since it was banned , Don't have a problem with those smoking cigs outside , however I kind of get annoyed at times having to share someone's smelly vape whether I like it or not

I've now got COPD even though I've never smoked a cigarette in my life.

I put that down to passive smoking.

A friend of my wifes has COPD too.
She has never smoked either nor spent any significant time in pubs or clubs.

[ProudSalopian]

I've never smoked but this seems ridiculous to me. I know the argument is about people's health and how much smokers cost the NHS but based on that why don't we ban alcohol or fast food?

[Pilch]

Aug 29, 2024 23:12:12 GMT 1 northwestman said:

Aug 29, 2024 22:33:24 GMT 1 Pilch said:

I'm convinced I have a bad chest from years of passive smoking , used to cough terrible the morning after a smoky night in a pub , never have once since it was banned , Don't have a problem with those smoking cigs outside , however I kind of get annoyed at times having to share someone's smelly vape whether I like it or not

I've now got COPD even though I've never smoked a cigarette in my life.

I put that down to passive smoking.

I'm not sure what that is but I'll look it up later and probably diagnose myself with it 🙃 , seriously I've never even taken a puff on a cig in my life , I guess it's the only reason I'm still here but I'm of the age where smoking was the norm at home when I was a kid , same at work , inside transport , cinemas just about anywhere , anyone of the generations after me will benefit enormously and live longer on average because of the various bans on all those mentioned

[Deleted]

I have two or three cigarettes a day, down from 20+ and I vape most of the time. I will be away this weekend so I won't smoke at all.

I think that this is a bad idea for several reasons.

No-one is forcing anyone to sit outside in the smoking area of a beer garden if they don't want to, there are plenty of seats inside most pubs and restaurants and many beer gardens have non-smoking areas. Even 'spoons have none smoking areas outside most of their pubs. Make pubs and restaurants have separate areas in their beer gardens by all means, but how many smokers and vapers are just not going to bother going to the pub if they can't smoke or vape whilst enjoying a drink? How many non-smokers that don't already go to the pub are going to think 'oh I'll go for a pint tonight because I won't have to breathe in the smoke in the beer garden'? Not bloody many.

How much money do you think the pubs will lose due to this? 240 pubs in the UK already closed in the first 3 months of this year. How many people sit in beer gardens in the middle of winter? Many smokers enjoy a pint with their mates and how many won't go if they can't smoke? How many of the non-smoking mates won't bother any more?

The hospitality sector is already on its knees, the last thing it needs is for the government to kick them while they're down.

As far as hospitals are concerned there should be rules in place to prevent people smoking or vaping at entrances or outside windows, but in the vast majority of cases this is due to there being minimal (at best) facilities for smokers. If you're lucky you get a repurposed bus shelter with no seats. Give people a decent place to sit and talk and enjoy a smoke with their visitors and they will use it, just don't put it on the far side of the car park, make it easily accessible.

One last thing. I've lost count of the times I've engaged in conversation with people in the smoking areas of pubs or hospitals. Smoking/vaping is actually quite a sociable habit

[Valerioch]

Aug 29, 2024 22:33:24 GMT 1 Pilch said:

I'm convinced I have a bad chest from years of passive smoking , used to cough terrible the morning after a smoky night in a pub , never have once since it was banned , Don't have a problem with those smoking cigs outside , however I kind of get annoyed at times having to share someone's smelly vape whether I like it or not

Getting a face full of second hand 'vape' is a massive bug bearer of mine, the cloud is usually massive, stinks, and demonstrates a complete lack of awareness and consideration from said vaper. But vaping is a whole other problem topic, it's an epidemic in this country now

[northwestman]

Aug 30, 2024 6:54:12 GMT 1 ProudSalopian said:

I've never smoked but this seems ridiculous to me. I know the argument is about people's health and how much smokers cost the NHS but based on that why don't we ban alcohol or fast food?

Give them time.

Pressure groups have already submitted papers to the Government.

[armchairfan]

How DARE Mr Starmer accuse so many citizens of right-wing fascism....I am all in favour of giving any new Government a fair chance, but there are early signs of this one slipping into infantile authoritarianism!

[Pilch]

Aug 30, 2024 8:51:25 GMT 1 @neilsalop said:

I have two or three cigarettes a day, down from 20+ and I vape most of the time. I will be away this weekend so I won't smoke at all.

I think that this is a bad idea for several reasons.

No-one is forcing anyone to sit outside in the smoking area of a beer garden if they don't want to, there are plenty of seats inside most pubs and restaurants and many beer gardens have non-smoking areas. Even 'spoons have none smoking areas outside most of their pubs. Make pubs and restaurants have separate areas in their beer gardens by all means, but how many smokers and vapers are just not going to bother going to the pub if they can't smoke or vape whilst enjoying a drink? How many non-smokers that don't already go to the pub are going to think 'oh I'll go for a pint tonight because I won't have to breathe in the smoke in the beer garden'? Not bloody many.

How much money do you think the pubs will lose due to this? 240 pubs in the UK already closed in the first 3 months of this year. How many people sit in beer gardens in the middle of winter? Many smokers enjoy a pint with their mates and how many won't go if they can't smoke? How many of the non-smoking mates won't bother any more?

The hospitality sector is already on its knees, the last thing it needs is for the government to kick them while they're down.

As far as hospitals are concerned there should be rules in place to prevent people smoking or vaping at entrances or outside windows, but in the vast majority of cases this is due to there being minimal (at best) facilities for smokers. If you're lucky you get a repurposed bus shelter with no seats. Give people a decent place to sit and talk and enjoy a smoke with their visitors and they will use it, just don't put it on the far side of the car park, make it easily accessible.

One last thing. I've lost count of the times I've engaged in conversation with people in the smoking areas of pubs or hospitals. Smoking/vaping is actually quite a sociable habit

When you are out with non smoking friends or family have you ever unconsciously inconvenienced them by suggesting you sit at a table outside when maybe they might have preferred a table inside , perhaps it's a bit nippy whatever , all because you know there you can smoke outside ? Don't take that personally as it's an example from my own experience of being the one who would have rather sat inside but has had to do what the smoker wants to do , the smoker who thinks they are doing us non smokers a big favour , or when outside is out of the question it's great being the one who sits on their own for 15 minutes at a time whilst their partner makes new friends in the doorway of the establishment with random other smokers

whoever introduced tobacco to us needs to give their head a wobble 🙃

( sorry meta shrew , it's the first and last time I'll ever use that phrase you hate 😝 )

[davycrockett]

Aug 30, 2024 10:27:10 GMT 1 Pilch said:

Aug 30, 2024 8:51:25 GMT 1 @neilsalop said:

I have two or three cigarettes a day, down from 20+ and I vape most of the time. I will be away this weekend so I won't smoke at all.

I think that this is a bad idea for several reasons.

No-one is forcing anyone to sit outside in the smoking area of a beer garden if they don't want to, there are plenty of seats inside most pubs and restaurants and many beer gardens have non-smoking areas. Even 'spoons have none smoking areas outside most of their pubs. Make pubs and restaurants have separate areas in their beer gardens by all means, but how many smokers and vapers are just not going to bother going to the pub if they can't smoke or vape whilst enjoying a drink? How many non-smokers that don't already go to the pub are going to think 'oh I'll go for a pint tonight because I won't have to breathe in the smoke in the beer garden'? Not bloody many.

How much money do you think the pubs will lose due to this? 240 pubs in the UK already closed in the first 3 months of this year. How many people sit in beer gardens in the middle of winter? Many smokers enjoy a pint with their mates and how many won't go if they can't smoke? How many of the non-smoking mates won't bother any more?

The hospitality sector is already on its knees, the last thing it needs is for the government to kick them while they're down.

As far as hospitals are concerned there should be rules in place to prevent people smoking or vaping at entrances or outside windows, but in the vast majority of cases this is due to there being minimal (at best) facilities for smokers. If you're lucky you get a repurposed bus shelter with no seats. Give people a decent place to sit and talk and enjoy a smoke with their visitors and they will use it, just don't put it on the far side of the car park, make it easily accessible.

One last thing. I've lost count of the times I've engaged in conversation with people in the smoking areas of pubs or hospitals. Smoking/vaping is actually quite a sociable habit

When you are out with non smoking friends or family have you ever unconsciously inconvenienced them by suggesting you sit at a table outside when maybe they might have preferred a table inside , perhaps it's a bit nippy whatever , all because you know there you can smoke outside ? Don't take that personally as it's an example from my own experience of being the one who would have rather sat inside but has had to do what the smoker wants to do , the smoker who thinks they are doing us non smokers a big favour , or when outside is out of the question it's great being the one who sits on their own for 15 minutes at a time whilst their partner makes new friends in the doorway of the establishment with random other smokers

whoever introduced tobacco to us needs to give their head a wobble 🙃

( sorry meta shrew , it's the first and last time I'll ever use that phrase you hate 😝 )

The most common date given for the arrival of tobacco in England is 27th July 1586, when it is said Sir Walter Raleigh brought it to England from Virginia.

His head did wobble off but some years later…

[salop18]

Comrade Starmer is easily the worst PM this country has had and he’s not even been in power 6 months yet.

From silencing free speech, cutting the winter fuel payment for the elderly, to rising taxes… and now taking even more enjoyment off people in the form of smoking not just in beer garden, but in publicly accessible places.

I’m pretty sure that the 20% that did vote for him didn’t vote for communism. It won’t end well for the dictator.

[Deleted]

Aug 30, 2024 10:27:10 GMT 1 Pilch said:

Aug 30, 2024 8:51:25 GMT 1 @neilsalop said:

I have two or three cigarettes a day, down from 20+ and I vape most of the time. I will be away this weekend so I won't smoke at all.

I think that this is a bad idea for several reasons.

No-one is forcing anyone to sit outside in the smoking area of a beer garden if they don't want to, there are plenty of seats inside most pubs and restaurants and many beer gardens have non-smoking areas. Even 'spoons have none smoking areas outside most of their pubs. Make pubs and restaurants have separate areas in their beer gardens by all means, but how many smokers and vapers are just not going to bother going to the pub if they can't smoke or vape whilst enjoying a drink? How many non-smokers that don't already go to the pub are going to think 'oh I'll go for a pint tonight because I won't have to breathe in the smoke in the beer garden'? Not bloody many.

How much money do you think the pubs will lose due to this? 240 pubs in the UK already closed in the first 3 months of this year. How many people sit in beer gardens in the middle of winter? Many smokers enjoy a pint with their mates and how many won't go if they can't smoke? How many of the non-smoking mates won't bother any more?

The hospitality sector is already on its knees, the last thing it needs is for the government to kick them while they're down.

As far as hospitals are concerned there should be rules in place to prevent people smoking or vaping at entrances or outside windows, but in the vast majority of cases this is due to there being minimal (at best) facilities for smokers. If you're lucky you get a repurposed bus shelter with no seats. Give people a decent place to sit and talk and enjoy a smoke with their visitors and they will use it, just don't put it on the far side of the car park, make it easily accessible.

One last thing. I've lost count of the times I've engaged in conversation with people in the smoking areas of pubs or hospitals. Smoking/vaping is actually quite a sociable habit

When you are out with non smoking friends or family have you ever unconsciously inconvenienced them by suggesting you sit at a table outside when maybe they might have preferred a table inside , perhaps it's a bit nippy whatever , all because you know there you can smoke outside ? Don't take that personally as it's an example from my own experience of being the one who would have rather sat inside but has had to do what the smoker wants to do , the smoker who thinks they are doing us non smokers a big favour , or when outside is out of the question it's great being the one who sits on their own for 15 minutes at a time whilst their partner makes new friends in the doorway of the establishment with random other smokers

whoever introduced tobacco to us needs to give their head a wobble 🙃

( sorry meta shrew , it's the first and last time I'll ever use that phrase you hate 😝 )

I would never impose my habits on anyone else I was out with. If I am out with the missus and friends, any of whom doesn't smoke, we go out in shifts, so the non-smoker is never deserted.

I agree with you that if tobacco were discovered today it would immediately be banned and that would be great. If it was banned today however it would leave an £8.8billion hole in the UK tax receipts. Tobacco related illness costs the NHS £2.6billion.

Alcohol taxation raises around £12.6billion, but costs the NHS £3.5billion. The total cost to the economy is nearer to £21billion a year.

[Pilch]

Aug 30, 2024 11:17:10 GMT 1 davycrockett said:

Aug 30, 2024 10:27:10 GMT 1 Pilch said:

When you are out with non smoking friends or family have you ever unconsciously inconvenienced them by suggesting you sit at a table outside when maybe they might have preferred a table inside , perhaps it's a bit nippy whatever , all because you know there you can smoke outside ? Don't take that personally as it's an example from my own experience of being the one who would have rather sat inside but has had to do what the smoker wants to do , the smoker who thinks they are doing us non smokers a big favour , or when outside is out of the question it's great being the one who sits on their own for 15 minutes at a time whilst their partner makes new friends in the doorway of the establishment with random other smokers

whoever introduced tobacco to us needs to give their head a wobble 🙃

( sorry meta shrew , it's the first and last time I'll ever use that phrase you hate 😝 )

The most common date given for the arrival of tobacco in England is 27th July 1586, when it is said Sir Walter Raleigh brought it to England from Virginia.

His head did wobble off but some years later…

Glad you got it 🙃

[venceremos]

Aug 30, 2024 6:54:12 GMT 1 ProudSalopian said:

I've never smoked but this seems ridiculous to me. I know the argument is about people's health and how much smokers cost the NHS but based on that why don't we ban alcohol or fast food?

If this, why not that isn't much of an argument and falls down quickly in this case.  Passive alcohol and passive fast food have never been an issue, passive smoking is.  Being in the open air is obviously better than in an enclosed environment but you still breathe in the toxins before they disperse in the atmosphere.

When I was a child most of the adults in my family smoked.  Later I socialised and worked in smoky environments.  Passive smoking wasn't really thought about and you expected to stink of smoke after a night out.  Now I can tell my neighbour's in their garden by the smell of his smoking, even though I can't see him and he's 10 metres or more away.

[zenfootball2]

Aug 30, 2024 9:26:19 GMT 1 Valerioch said:

Aug 29, 2024 22:33:24 GMT 1 Pilch said:

I'm convinced I have a bad chest from years of passive smoking , used to cough terrible the morning after a smoky night in a pub , never have once since it was banned , Don't have a problem with those smoking cigs outside , however I kind of get annoyed at times having to share someone's smelly vape whether I like it or not

Getting a face full of second hand 'vape' is a massive bug bearer of mine, the cloud is usually massive, stinks, and demonstrates a complete lack of awareness and consideration from said vaper. But vaping is a whole other problem topic, it's an epidemic in this country now

Min too I'm my opinion it's worse than cigarette smoke, it seems to stay in the air more, when I'm walking up the high street I get second hand vape usually smelling of fruits which is very unpleasant.

The hospitality sector has really struggled between COVID and the cost of living si I think you will just see more pubs shutting

[venceremos]

Aug 30, 2024 11:31:31 GMT 1 salop18 said:

Comrade Starmer is easily the worst PM this country has had and he’s not even been in power 6 months yet.

From silencing free speech, cutting the winter fuel payment for the elderly, to rising taxes… and now taking even more enjoyment off people in the form of smoking not just in beer garden, but in publicly accessible places.

I’m pretty sure that the 20% that did vote for him didn’t vote for communism. It won’t end well for the dictator.

Yeah, that's sooooooo communist.    There won't be a funnier post this week, well done. 

[venceremos]

Aug 30, 2024 8:51:25 GMT 1 @neilsalop said:

How much money do you think the pubs will lose due to this? 240 pubs in the UK already closed in the first 3 months of this year. How many people sit in beer gardens in the middle of winter? Many smokers enjoy a pint with their mates and how many won't go if they can't smoke? How many of the non-smoking mates won't bother any more?


As far as hospitals are concerned there should be rules in place to prevent people smoking or vaping at entrances or outside windows, but in the vast majority of cases this is due to there being minimal (at best) facilities for smokers. If you're lucky you get a repurposed bus shelter with no seats. Give people a decent place to sit and talk and enjoy a smoke with their visitors and they will use it, just don't put it on the far side of the car park, make it easily accessible.

A pub that goes out of business because of an outdoor smoking ban was always going out of business anyway.

And hospitals are places where sick people go for treatment, so a smoking ban there is long overdue. 

[zenfootball2]

Aug 29, 2024 20:33:31 GMT 1 GrizzlyShrew said:

Hmmm so Starmer reduces the tax a little from the smoking fraternity. Wonder where else he is going to make up the revenue from the taxation.

He has clobbered the pensioners already, now this.

I'm a non smoker but smoking outside has never really been an issue with anyone close to where I am.

Never wanted the clown to be in charge of the country, but now he is he is showing just what an idiot he is.

There think tank has suggested increasing the number of property bands to target the rich but it has suggested a progressive property tax, this will mean all properties been revalued and you pay tax on the value of your property, when we bought the house we now live in, it was a struggle but we don't have a mortgage and like many other people the property has increased in value, if introduced this progressive property tax will really hit pensioners, who live on a there pensions and we all could face a significant increase in our council tax. They have something like this in Vancouver which resulted in senior citizens downsizing or leaving the city.

[The Shropshire Tenor]

I have been alarmed to read that the business plan of pubs is based on people smoking outside.

[northwestman]

Aug 30, 2024 11:17:10 GMT 1 davycrockett said:

Aug 30, 2024 10:27:10 GMT 1 Pilch said:

When you are out with non smoking friends or family have you ever unconsciously inconvenienced them by suggesting you sit at a table outside when maybe they might have preferred a table inside , perhaps it's a bit nippy whatever , all because you know there you can smoke outside ? Don't take that personally as it's an example from my own experience of being the one who would have rather sat inside but has had to do what the smoker wants to do , the smoker who thinks they are doing us non smokers a big favour , or when outside is out of the question it's great being the one who sits on their own for 15 minutes at a time whilst their partner makes new friends in the doorway of the establishment with random other smokers

whoever introduced tobacco to us needs to give their head a wobble 🙃

( sorry meta shrew , it's the first and last time I'll ever use that phrase you hate 😝 )

The most common date given for the arrival of tobacco in England is 27th July 1586, when it is said Sir Walter Raleigh brought it to England from Virginia.

His head did wobble off but some years later…

[Deleted]

Aug 30, 2024 14:21:06 GMT 1 venceremos said:

Aug 30, 2024 8:51:25 GMT 1 @neilsalop said:

How much money do you think the pubs will lose due to this? 240 pubs in the UK already closed in the first 3 months of this year. How many people sit in beer gardens in the middle of winter? Many smokers enjoy a pint with their mates and how many won't go if they can't smoke? How many of the non-smoking mates won't bother any more?


As far as hospitals are concerned there should be rules in place to prevent people smoking or vaping at entrances or outside windows, but in the vast majority of cases this is due to there being minimal (at best) facilities for smokers. If you're lucky you get a repurposed bus shelter with no seats. Give people a decent place to sit and talk and enjoy a smoke with their visitors and they will use it, just don't put it on the far side of the car park, make it easily accessible.

A pub that goes out of business because of an outdoor smoking ban was always going out of business anyway.

And hospitals are places where sick people go for treatment, so a smoking ban there is long overdue. 

And people that smoke get injured or ill and require hospital treatment. Are they supposed to just quit when they get to hospital?