|
|
Post by mattmw on Jun 28, 2024 13:46:57 GMT 1
Purely anecdotal I know but everyone I know and speak to are in favour of it and just want it done I'm in North Shropshire and I'm not convinced it's worth the money. I'm not wholly against it either but new roads destroy environments and attract more traffic. I can appreciate it would be better for Shrewsbury town centre if the traffic volume there was reduced but, apart from having my doubts that it would make as big a difference there as some claim, increased traffic volumes and speeds north of the town don't appeal to me. The idea has been around for so long now that I'd want to see a current cost/benefit and environmental analysis. Is there one? You can find all the documents on the NWRR on this page, and the link to the Committee report on the planning application via this page www.shropshire.gov.uk/roads-and-highways/shrewsbury-north-west-relief-road/overview/I'd say from my eperience of consulting the public on this is that views are very much split on the project. People living in the north of the town and rural areas to the north tend to be in favour of it to reduce journey time getting round Shrewsbury and reducing rat running through the countryside. Town Centre residents also tend to like the idea to reduce town centre traffic and allow more walking and cycling routes to be introduced in the town centre. On the otherhand there is certainly opposition to the scheme due to its environmental impacts, costs etc. Those outside Shrewsbury also point to that level funding could be better spent across the whole county not just shrewsbury. Statatory organisations like the Environment Agency have also expressed concerns about aspects of the project, but don't formally object. For me the key issue is funding. Even if the exisiting government grant of £54 million is maintained - and there is no guarentee a future Government would maintain it - that still leaves at least £30 million to be found locally, even if build costs don't rise. Thats a big ask to make of local tax payers at a time when the Council budget is already under massive pressure. Against all that if road isn't built all traffic data suggests more and more vehicles will be using the existing network, which already under strain |
|
|
|
Post by venceremos on Jun 28, 2024 14:19:44 GMT 1
I'm in North Shropshire and I'm not convinced it's worth the money. I'm not wholly against it either but new roads destroy environments and attract more traffic. I can appreciate it would be better for Shrewsbury town centre if the traffic volume there was reduced but, apart from having my doubts that it would make as big a difference there as some claim, increased traffic volumes and speeds north of the town don't appeal to me. The idea has been around for so long now that I'd want to see a current cost/benefit and environmental analysis. Is there one? You can find all the documents on the NWRR on this page, and the link to the Committee report on the planning application via this page www.shropshire.gov.uk/roads-and-highways/shrewsbury-north-west-relief-road/overview/I'd say from my eperience of consulting the public on this is that views are very much split on the project. People living in the north of the town and rural areas to the north tend to be in favour of it to reduce journey time getting round Shrewsbury and reducing rat running through the countryside. Town Centre residents also tend to like the idea to reduce town centre traffic and allow more walking and cycling routes to be introduced in the town centre. On the otherhand there is certainly opposition to the scheme due to its environmental impacts, costs etc. Those outside Shrewsbury also point to that level funding could be better spent across the whole county not just shrewsbury. Statatory organisations like the Environment Agency have also expressed concerns about aspects of the project, but don't formally object. For me the key issue is funding. Even if the exisiting government grant of £54 million is maintained - and there is no guarentee a future Government would maintain it - that still leaves at least £30 million to be found locally, even if build costs don't rise. Thats a big ask to make of local tax payers at a time when the Council budget is already under massive pressure. Against all that if road isn't built all traffic data suggests more and more vehicles will be using the existing network, which already under strain Thanks, Matt, I'll have another look at this. It's interesting you say people in the north tend to be in favour. That's where we live and I very rarely need to go in the direction the NWRR would take me. It would probably make it quicker to go to North Wales via Welshpool but I think I'd still go via Oswestry/Llangollen, rather than head south. That's just me, I appreciate, but I'm struggling to think of where I'd be going that would see me using the NWRR. It seems sensible for A5 traffic to continue on that road to the west and south of town, rather than increase traffic on the A49 to get to or from the NWRR, although I can see how it would benefit those travelling east/west on the A53. Is £84m the current estimated cost? Guaranteed to mean £120m+ in reality! |
|
|
|
Post by mattmw on Jun 28, 2024 14:32:41 GMT 1
You can find all the documents on the NWRR on this page, and the link to the Committee report on the planning application via this page www.shropshire.gov.uk/roads-and-highways/shrewsbury-north-west-relief-road/overview/I'd say from my eperience of consulting the public on this is that views are very much split on the project. People living in the north of the town and rural areas to the north tend to be in favour of it to reduce journey time getting round Shrewsbury and reducing rat running through the countryside. Town Centre residents also tend to like the idea to reduce town centre traffic and allow more walking and cycling routes to be introduced in the town centre. On the otherhand there is certainly opposition to the scheme due to its environmental impacts, costs etc. Those outside Shrewsbury also point to that level funding could be better spent across the whole county not just shrewsbury. Statatory organisations like the Environment Agency have also expressed concerns about aspects of the project, but don't formally object. For me the key issue is funding. Even if the exisiting government grant of £54 million is maintained - and there is no guarentee a future Government would maintain it - that still leaves at least £30 million to be found locally, even if build costs don't rise. Thats a big ask to make of local tax payers at a time when the Council budget is already under massive pressure. Against all that if road isn't built all traffic data suggests more and more vehicles will be using the existing network, which already under strain Thanks, Matt, I'll have another look at this. It's interesting you say people in the north tend to be in favour. That's where we live and I very rarely need to go in the direction the NWRR would take me. It would probably make it quicker to go to North Wales via Welshpool but I think I'd still go via Oswestry/Llangollen, rather than head south. That's just me, I appreciate, but I'm struggling to think of where I'd be going that would see me using the NWRR. It seems sensible for A5 traffic to continue on that road to the west and south of town, rather than increase traffic on the A49 to get to or from the NWRR, although I can see how it would benefit those travelling east/west on the A53. Is £84m the current estimated cost? Guaranteed to mean £120m+ in reality! Yes I appreciate that I’ve made some generalisations about people in the north, and not everyone feels the same or would make use of the road if built. But at the planning committee when it was discussed parish councils like Baschuch did support the application On costs you are right cost would almost certainly be more now than when they were agreed. It’s one of the issues with government funding of infrastructure that Councils have to spend significant levels of funding building a project to a fully costed business case before government approves the funds. It leaves them really vulnerable to change at a national level if government priorities change or if policy changes with a change in government. The risk sits very much with Councils rather than central government |
|
|
|
Post by davycrockett on Jun 28, 2024 14:54:15 GMT 1
Thanks, Matt, I'll have another look at this. It's interesting you say people in the north tend to be in favour. That's where we live and I very rarely need to go in the direction the NWRR would take me. It would probably make it quicker to go to North Wales via Welshpool but I think I'd still go via Oswestry/Llangollen, rather than head south. That's just me, I appreciate, but I'm struggling to think of where I'd be going that would see me using the NWRR. It seems sensible for A5 traffic to continue on that road to the west and south of town, rather than increase traffic on the A49 to get to or from the NWRR, although I can see how it would benefit those travelling east/west on the A53. Is £84m the current estimated cost? Guaranteed to mean £120m+ in reality! Yes I appreciate that I’ve made some generalisations about people in the north, and not everyone feels the same or would make use of the road if built. But at the planning committee when it was discussed parish councils like Baschuch did support the application On costs you are right cost would almost certainly be more now than when they were agreed. It’s one of the issues with government funding of infrastructure that Councils have to spend significant levels of funding building a project to a fully costed business case before government approves the funds. It leaves them really vulnerable to change at a national level if government priorities change or if policy changes with a change in government. The risk sits very much with Councils rather than central government Places like Baschurch would support it even if they never use it to alleviate the rat runs through Leighton then either Fitz and Montford Bridge or Walford Baschurch Ryton XI Town to Shotterton …. My son works in Battlefields but goes home via Leighton /Fitz to Longden Road, it’s the quickest way at 5.30. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2024 15:04:51 GMT 1
Thanks, Matt, I'll have another look at this. It's interesting you say people in the north tend to be in favour. That's where we live and I very rarely need to go in the direction the NWRR would take me. It would probably make it quicker to go to North Wales via Welshpool but I think I'd still go via Oswestry/Llangollen, rather than head south. That's just me, I appreciate, but I'm struggling to think of where I'd be going that would see me using the NWRR. It seems sensible for A5 traffic to continue on that road to the west and south of town, rather than increase traffic on the A49 to get to or from the NWRR, although I can see how it would benefit those travelling east/west on the A53. Is £84m the current estimated cost? Guaranteed to mean £120m+ in reality! Yes I appreciate that I’ve made some generalisations about people in the north, and not everyone feels the same or would make use of the road if built. But at the planning committee when it was discussed parish councils like Baschuch did support the application On costs you are right cost would almost certainly be more now than when they were agreed. It’s one of the issues with government funding of infrastructure that Councils have to spend significant levels of funding building a project to a fully costed business case before government approves the funds. It leaves them really vulnerable to change at a national level if government priorities change or if policy changes with a change in government. The risk sits very much with Councils rather than central government It’s interesting at a local level as Kier Starmer has said he wants to end the process of local councils having to waste time and money bidding for various pots of money, hopefully giving more council’s freedom to invest where they want and on what will most benefit their regions. |
|
|
|
Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 28, 2024 16:32:39 GMT 1
As this plan is fully implemented and town becomes a no go area for cars,the missing element is increased funding for a bus service that meets the needs of the public, we need a service that meets the needs for all ages groups and ability.
|
|
|
|
Post by venceremos on Jun 28, 2024 16:54:00 GMT 1
As this plan is fully implemented and town becomes a no go area for cars,the missing element is increased funding for a bus service that meets the needs of the public, we need a service that meets the needs for all ages groups and ability. I'd add to that the advantages that a parkway railway station on the edge of town could bring. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2024 17:20:45 GMT 1
As this plan is fully implemented and town becomes a no go area for cars,the missing element is increased funding for a bus service that meets the needs of the public, we need a service that meets the needs for all ages groups and ability. From what I read within The Big Town Plan there is financial provisions for electric busses to run through the town centre which will terminate and depart from the car parks around the town. Interestingly I'm sure the document stated that the council will run the buses,not Arriva. This falls in with a groundswell around the country of councils looking to take back their local bus services and undo the policy of the loathsome Thatcher |
|
|
|
Post by servernaside on Jun 29, 2024 9:49:59 GMT 1
Cart before the horse idea, I'm afraid. Good job you're not in charge. Explain ?.. not that it matters as this is nothing more than a hyperthetical discussion Blocking off vehicle access before the NWRR is built would cause chaos....and what about emergency services vehicles? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2024 10:46:58 GMT 1
Explain ?.. not that it matters as this is nothing more than a hyperthetical discussion Blocking off vehicle access before the NWRR is built would cause chaos....and what about emergency services vehicles? My hypothetical solution was for rising bollards,like they have in Chester.These allow access for permitted vehicles and a barrier against through traffic. Adequate early warning would divert people away.Drivers learn quickly,ie ATM warning signs by Morrisons are diverting cars away from St Michaels St etc and are working as the area is generally quiet. Two months ago the signs were ignored by drivers with inbound queues back as far as the flaxmill |
|
|
|
Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Jun 29, 2024 11:03:31 GMT 1
It’s many decades since I left Shrewsbury and I now visit as a tourist, I often think that the local population don’t appreciate what a lovely town it is. Superior to Chester and Stratford in my opinion.
But why is traffic allowed inside the loop of the river? Heavy traffic on High Street and Wyle Cop for example is a turn off.
Motorised traffic should be restricted to the electric buses mentioned earlier, taxis, emergency vehicles and deliveries-the latter at designated times.
|
|
|
|
Post by ar**chairfan on Jun 29, 2024 20:36:44 GMT 1
I take your point about the volume of traffic within the loop, but surely, as things stand at present, it would have to be diverted along Beeches Lane/Town Walls, which in turn risks damage to the longest remaining stretch of the ancient walls, which would be not only environmentally disastrous and arguably impossible to rectify, but would be very costly.
The simple fact is that there are no solutions which will satisfy everyone, and the Authorities must consult as widely as possible to come up with the least bad option; that is the way that messy democracy and compromise works.
On a related issue, I have travelled into town by bus from Meole three times this week (not at rush hour) and on each occasion traffic was almost stationary from the bottom of Wyleat Cop, and at a standstill along High Street/Mardol Head.
The bus drivers alleged that the Council have changed the traffic light phasing at Bridge Street to lessen the impact of the station roadworks, but in doing so, caused a wiring fault. Needless to say, Arrival are not happy as it results in timetable problems and more customer dissatisfaction.
|
|
|
|
Post by Pilch on Jun 29, 2024 21:38:44 GMT 1
Popped down today to castle Foregate to say au revoir to the slave drivers , the traffic was less than usual and normally is when roadworks are about , forget castle forgate I say Smithfield road is usually the worst road In town , as for as town walls go there are actually some now buried in Smithfield road , and also for those interested in town wall , meadow place still has an amazing example of them , ( at the rear of the alb ) Estimated from around 1300
Saw this on a fantastic you tube doc from the Shropshire archives
|
|
|
|
Post by capitalsalopian on Jun 30, 2024 7:30:10 GMT 1
I'm in North Shropshire and the sheer volume of traffic that head south along the A49 to turn east towards Wales is high. In my humble opinion the NWRR doesn't go far enough but I've not seen the traffic modelling. I'd say you need to look at battlefield to the Ellesmere road roundabout as well as sundorne to Preston boats roundabouts. Dual in between them and make NWRR dual too. That's the only way it would be truly future proofed. Again only my opinion without any data. Cost would be massive and you'd probably need to widen an existing bridge or 3.
|
|
|
|
Post by servernaside on Jul 1, 2024 11:03:25 GMT 1
Blocking off vehicle access before the NWRR is built would cause chaos....and what about emergency services vehicles? My hypothetical solution was for rising bollards,like they have in Chester.These allow access for permitted vehicles and a barrier against through traffic. Adequate early warning would divert people away.Drivers learn quickly,ie ATM warning signs by Morrisons are diverting cars away from St Michaels St etc and are working as the area is generally quiet. Two months ago the signs were ignored by drivers with inbound queues back as far as the flaxmill Which ever way you cut it, it's still putting the cart before the horse. And where exactly do you think the traffic will go? Just disappear? |
|
|
|
Post by ProudSalopian on Jul 1, 2024 11:21:34 GMT 1
Purely anecdotal I know but everyone I know and speak to are in favour of it and just want it done I'm in North Shropshire and I'm not convinced it's worth the money. I'm not wholly against it either but new roads destroy environments and attract more traffic. I can appreciate it would be better for Shrewsbury town centre if the traffic volume there was reduced but, apart from having my doubts that it would make as big a difference there as some claim, increased traffic volumes and speeds north of the town don't appeal to me. I can understand the challenge because of the cost & environmental impact, to be honest I think the 'get it done' is less about the benefits it will bring, but more about the frustration at something being debated yet again when it's been going on for years (a bit like Maltings). I appreciate it's not the best justification for proceeding with it but until it happens, the subject will never go away. I suspect it will happen eventually, less so about the benefits it will bring from a traffic perspective, more about the opportunities it will bring to develop that part of the town. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2024 11:37:30 GMT 1
My hypothetical solution was for rising bollards,like they have in Chester.These allow access for permitted vehicles and a barrier against through traffic. Adequate early warning would divert people away.Drivers learn quickly,ie ATM warning signs by Morrisons are diverting cars away from St Michaels St etc and are working as the area is generally quiet. Two months ago the signs were ignored by drivers with inbound queues back as far as the flaxmill Which ever way you cut it, it's still putting the cart before the horse. And where exactly do you think the traffic will go? Just disappear? As I stated earlier drivers quickly learn. ATM they are taking note of the electronic sign opposite Morrisons and diverting along Telford Way rather than Ditherington and St Michaels Street.How do I know?..I live on the edge of the loop so its on my route home. I've given you my thoughts so rather than constantly moan and criticise what's your solution?..or don't you have one and just want everything to remain as it is |
|
|
|
Post by servernaside on Jul 1, 2024 11:56:25 GMT 1
Which ever way you cut it, it's still putting the cart before the horse. And where exactly do you think the traffic will go? Just disappear? As I stated earlier drivers quickly learn. ATM they are taking note of the electronic sign opposite Morrisons and diverting along Telford Way rather than Ditherington and St Michaels Street.How do I know?..I live on the edge of the loop so its on my route home. I've given you my thoughts so rather than constantly moan and criticise what's your solution?..or don't you have one and just want everything to remain as it is Indeed. Remain as it is until they build this damned NWRR. |
|
|
|
Post by iestywfc on Jul 1, 2024 12:06:31 GMT 1
As this plan is fully implemented and town becomes a no go area for cars,the missing element is increased funding for a bus service that meets the needs of the public, we need a service that meets the needs for all ages groups and ability. I'd add to that the advantages that a parkway railway station on the edge of town could bring. and this is something the Council have earmarked in their current 10 year plan |
|
|
|
Post by iestywfc on Jul 1, 2024 12:10:03 GMT 1
|
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Jul 1, 2024 12:24:34 GMT 1
As someone who either wants to park and ride for Shrewsbury shopping (very rarely these days, 'cos the shops aren't special any more - I'd probably just go to Tanners wines from the Abbey and leave it at that). Or I want to get around Shrewsbury to get to Wales. So I'd settle for no NWRR, just upgrade the road that links Battlefield roundabout to the A5 (filter lane at the roundabout to get to the sports village?) and the A5 to be upgraded to near motorway standard. If you know it, like the A500 D road around Stoke or the A442 past Telford Centre.
Don't know the plan, but I'm concerned that the NWRR will have potential traffic congestion point roundabouts and eventually new housing and business parks will spring up along the route to slow down the NWRR to the sort of pace you get on the A5 at peak times or during incidents.
|
|
