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Post by mrcricket on Mar 29, 2024 0:18:26 GMT 1
My take is that Town are a fairly well run club and the fact they announce losses of £3m+ says to me football as a whole must be in a very sorry state Likely correct.
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Post by mrcricket on Mar 29, 2024 0:24:27 GMT 1
So in short
All League One Clubs are struggling.
Roland runs a tight ship and whilst this report tells a story of a big loss. What happened from previous years big profits and also the Leahy / Hearnes Monies from the following season?
Roland has taken the club as far as he can go and it's generally in a good state.
But are Caldwell and Cotterill convenient scapegoat? People may want to look at some of the other monies wasted on various talents etc.
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Post by Pilch on Mar 29, 2024 0:27:49 GMT 1
So in short All League One Clubs are struggling. Roland runs a tight ship and whilst this report tells a story of a big loss. What happened from previous years big profits and also the Leahy / Hearnes Monies from the following season? Roland has taken the club as far as he can go and it's generally in a good state. But are Caldwell and Cotterill convenient scapegoat? People may want to look at some of the other monies wasted on various talents etc. previous seasons big profits ? also hearns Leahy are next years accounts other money wasted on various talents ? who are you on about ? obrien ?
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Mar 29, 2024 0:50:58 GMT 1
At the same time when fans were being told we had a state of the art new stadium on the way we asked why there were no toilet seats and were told "at least you don't have to p**s in the river" and that's a direct quote from Roland. When Gareth Hopkins asked why we didn't have a supporters bar at the new stadium Mal Whitrick threw a set of architects plans at him and asked him to show him where it would fit. Look back at the last twenty years for Wrexham, Hereford, Chester or Telford and I choose Shrewsbury. Look at Burton, Rotherham, or Wycombe and I choose them. It all depends on your perspective and in large parts that's shaped by the attitude of leadership, not just the success of it. re the new ground, I got hammered on here for suggesting a gate be inserted in the superblues way , equally hammered for then suggesting we need 2 gates, I suggested a fence be erected between the power bar and the west stand, moaned about silly things like real ale in smithys and on the concourse, moaned about the state of how dangerous Oteley road was and how it needed widening, how the fence climbing was highly dangerous and a path needed inserting, suggested safe standing in the south stand years before it arrived, its fair to say ive done my fair share of club bashing where I felt it was needed and fair play they listened, whether they listened to me or just common sense prevailed I dont know is some case but one thing I can say, I never needed a s**t at the ground or any other ground for that matter, ive somehow managed to control my body to avoid that problem ever arising, but I am led to believe it was sorted having used the west stand northern toilets recently I noticed the cubicles there tend to be used , not for what they are intended but for 2 guys to dart into for what I can only guess is drug related usage It's almost as though women don't attend games.
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Post by Pilch on Mar 29, 2024 1:04:30 GMT 1
re the new ground, I got hammered on here for suggesting a gate be inserted in the superblues way , equally hammered for then suggesting we need 2 gates, I suggested a fence be erected between the power bar and the west stand, moaned about silly things like real ale in smithys and on the concourse, moaned about the state of how dangerous Oteley road was and how it needed widening, how the fence climbing was highly dangerous and a path needed inserting, suggested safe standing in the south stand years before it arrived, its fair to say ive done my fair share of club bashing where I felt it was needed and fair play they listened, whether they listened to me or just common sense prevailed I dont know is some case but one thing I can say, I never needed a s**t at the ground or any other ground for that matter, ive somehow managed to control my body to avoid that problem ever arising, but I am led to believe it was sorted having used the west stand northern toilets recently I noticed the cubicles there tend to be used , not for what they are intended but for 2 guys to dart into for what I can only guess is drug related usage It's almost as though women don't attend games. I never actually been in the female toilets in any establishment , And even in a football stadium I would have presumed the ladies would have the luxury of a toilet seat , and only if they shouted out that they never would I have even known to moan on their behalf I'm wondering if if my fault for not knowing actually did female toilets have seats ? any of them, anyone know ?
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Post by shrewdshrewssupporter on Mar 29, 2024 1:40:25 GMT 1
A couple of interesting points and clarifications from a quick read of the accounts (apologies may be repeating what has been said on here already - quick lunchbreak). 1) £3m lose leaving us with 80k in the bank... After £500k of loans by the chairman. A perilous financial position. 2) On the topic of the chairman, these are interest free loans with no right to convert to shares. Clearly the chairman is not unduly benefitting from our financial situation and will see no gain upon sale from shares or the like as had previously been speculated. 3) £100k spent on a player last season - was that Shipley?! 4) Contingent fees received of £440k - add ons from previous player sales? 5) Increase in cost of sales (electricity, etc?) by £1m and increase in admin expenses of £500k (where the alleged wrongdoings lie, I suspect) 6) Decrease in debtors and increase in creditors - stretching ourselves as far as possible to cover our current predicament 7) If cost of sales remain at present levels, we will need a major player sale or cup run to keep us from collapse. Neither of which are likely this season. I am concerned for next year's accounts already. Thanks for this, some interesting readings and questions. Interesting point that I missed earlier, Directors'loans stand at £1.3m as at date of signing the accounts. Clearly things have not improved on the cash-flow side.
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Post by mrcricket on Mar 29, 2024 2:05:34 GMT 1
You can't blame the rising price of Electricity on Steve Cotterill nor AOB
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Post by davycrockett on Mar 29, 2024 8:59:34 GMT 1
Oh, that does sound a step too far, though it has to be faced up to I suppose.
If my opinion is right about RW, then he has got his will and finances arranged to cater for his family, as you should, and also to be able to look down on us if there is an after life and feel he's done right by his beloved Shrewsbury Town.
Aren't the shares held in a family trust already? Or was that the stadium? Do you remember all that discussion at the time? They were held in trust on some Caribbean Island making us foreign owned but believe that was undone as we’re no longer foreign owned.
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Post by davycrockett on Mar 29, 2024 9:06:28 GMT 1
Are you suggested the two directors that left jumped off a sinking ship and were in some way shirking their responsibilities? That's a bold claim given their good standing in both the local and the fans community. That mud doesn't stick to either of them. Have you noticed how the mud had got fired at Brian, Cotterill, the other two directors. It's a bit unlucky all these supposedly good people with good reputations all turned upside down at the same time? Or perhaps they're being flamed to distract us? Especially as they don't have the right of reply? Paul Delves spent a lot of money in sponsorship whilst a director at the club and is well respected. Whilst not in a position to buy the club in his own right he did get a consortium of swedish billionaires who would give Roland 10m to buy the club. With a loss of 3m it seems a good bid was turned down. Perhaps the fact it was identified during due diligence during the bid didn't go down well with Roland. Either way RW is at fault for these issues At best that would be one sides version of whatever went on. This is the rumour posted by ‘Paul Delves’ and quickly removed. Why?
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Post by ssshrew on Mar 29, 2024 9:06:39 GMT 1
It's almost as though women don't attend games. I never actually been in the female toilets in any establishment , And even in a football stadium I would have presumed the ladies would have the luxury of a toilet seat , and only if they shouted out that they never would I have even known to moan on their behalf I'm wondering if if my fault for not knowing actually did female toilets have seats ? any of them, anyone know ? No they blooming well didn’t. It was disgraceful. They were cold and I am sure unhygienic. Believe me I shouted out until something was done. As tbh says it was like we never existed. When,I first saw them I assumed that the building wasn’t quite finished. After a couple of games it was obvious it was just cheap skating made even worse when I went for Sunday lunch and found there were ‘proper’ toilets upstairs. It was my first realisation that fans didn’t matter to the club and whatever he has or has not done Brian did sort that which will always be a plus mark for him and a minus for the people who agreed the original plans.
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Post by cabanas2017 on Mar 29, 2024 9:07:03 GMT 1
I understand that Roland sold some land at the corner of the stadium to Morris for 500k and would receive a further 500k should when they be successful gaining planning permission. May explain where the Interest free loan has come from…..
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Post by davycrockett on Mar 29, 2024 9:23:44 GMT 1
It's almost as though women don't attend games. I never actually been in the female toilets in any establishment , And even in a football stadium I would have presumed the ladies would have the luxury of a toilet seat , and only if they shouted out that they never would I have even known to moan on their behalf I'm wondering if if my fault for not knowing actually did female toilets have seats ? any of them, anyone know ? You must have missed ssshrew and others multiple posts at the time. Not to mention many questions asked by Ian in his regular ask the CEO interviews. It was a hot topic for years until sorted 👍 It was a mistake, stadiums have one piece stainless steel toilets without seats because they’re actually more hygienic and easier maintain, no seats to harbour germs. Not very comfy mind and not in keeping with the modern football fans expectations, hence we got seats.
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Post by ssshrew on Mar 29, 2024 9:27:36 GMT 1
Easy to maintain but definitely second rate and second class for ladies.
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Post by dibblydobbly on Mar 29, 2024 9:28:20 GMT 1
I understand that Roland sold some land at the corner of the stadium to Morris for 500k and would receive a further 500k should when they be successful gaining planning permission. May explain where the Interest free loan has come from….. All the land at the stadum is owned by the club, so any sale would bring funds to club not an individual, you can look it up on Land Registry at £2 per go.
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Post by davycrockett on Mar 29, 2024 9:32:44 GMT 1
I understand that Roland sold some land at the corner of the stadium to Morris for 500k and would receive a further 500k should when they be successful gaining planning permission. May explain where the Interest free loan has come from….. Interesting, give us some more details? it was transferred into another company something like Shrewsbury Town 2017 at the time of the Lidl deal but can’t find any reference now.
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Post by davycrockett on Mar 29, 2024 9:35:37 GMT 1
I understand that Roland sold some land at the corner of the stadium to Morris for 500k and would receive a further 500k should when they be successful gaining planning permission. May explain where the Interest free loan has come from….. All the land at the stadum is owned by the club, so any sale would bring funds to club not an individual, you can look it up on Land Registry at £2 per go. As per my previous post the land with the ‘Next Game’ sign was separated from the club on legal advice when the Lidl deal was done. Is it now owned by Shrewsbury Town Football Club together with the rest of the land?
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Post by dibblydobbly on Mar 29, 2024 9:42:34 GMT 1
All the land at the stadum is owned by the club, so any sale would bring funds to club not an individual, you can look it up on Land Registry at £2 per go. As per my previous post the land with the ‘Next Game’ sign was separated from the club on legal advice when the Lidl deal was done. Is it now owned by Shrewsbury Town Football Club together with the rest of the land? Legal advice would never put an asset like that in with a liability, we would have parked the road only in a separate entity under legal advice. Check Land Registry and you will see it.
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Post by dibblydobbly on Mar 29, 2024 9:43:10 GMT 1
I never actually been in the female toilets in any establishment , And even in a football stadium I would have presumed the ladies would have the luxury of a toilet seat , and only if they shouted out that they never would I have even known to moan on their behalf I'm wondering if if my fault for not knowing actually did female toilets have seats ? any of them, anyone know ? Are you taking the p**s? The discussion of toilet seats was rife on here for a decade, you know full well it was. Ssshrew was one of the main catalysts, and rightly so! You're just being facetious. Taking the P*ss? Good one.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Mar 29, 2024 9:49:49 GMT 1
I actually feel for the chairman in part, for years we have been complaining that he is a one man board, he then goes and gives more financial control of the club to his CEO and we end up in this situation. I don't think that was the main thrust of the concerns and complaints though, they are related more to having more people within the club and at board level who would be willing and able to contribute financially. And that isn't expected of the CEO. And considering these new accounts and the situation we found ourselves in (and perhaps remain) you could argue those concerns have only heightened. As we seem to have now encountered a situation where I think a lot of us could see the benefit of having more people within the club and at board level who are willing and able to contribute financially to manage such a situation.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Mar 29, 2024 9:57:40 GMT 1
I never actually been in the female toilets in any establishment , And even in a football stadium I would have presumed the ladies would have the luxury of a toilet seat , and only if they shouted out that they never would I have even known to moan on their behalf I'm wondering if if my fault for not knowing actually did female toilets have seats ? any of them, anyone know ? Are you taking the p**s? The discussion of toilet seats was rife on here for a decade, you know full well it was. Ssshrew was one of the main catalysts, and rightly so! You're just being facetious. I agree with this, sadly. Pilch didn't you even help us all sell fanzines with free toilet seats with each issue? The seats were changed within 6 months of that. The entire fanbase knew about it for several years. It was on the list the grievances with the clipart lion and wanting to charge full price for the Port Vale game that was abandoned because of a fire. Let alone a "choose the kit" competition that was deliberately manipulated in the choices and then lied about in the results. That's why if you talk about toilet seats, clippy or kit C everyone knows what you're talking about. To pretend to not know because in your hundreds of games you've never needed a poo is one of the silliest things I've ever read on here.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Mar 29, 2024 10:11:59 GMT 1
Could that be the first utterance of the word "poo" we have seen on B&A? Even considering past Town performances throughout the years. Caught me a bit off guard that, spilt some on my coffee.
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Post by pughywasfree on Mar 29, 2024 10:36:19 GMT 1
What has toilet seats got to do with this years accounts?
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Post by davycrockett on Mar 29, 2024 10:40:27 GMT 1
What has toilet seats got to do with this years accounts? We’ve moved on. Everyone’s said their bit and now picking on anything in the last 20 years they’ve got a gripe with 😂
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Mar 29, 2024 10:44:09 GMT 1
What has toilet seats got to do with this years accounts? We’ve moved on. Everyone’s said their bit and now picking on anything in the last 20 years they’ve got a gripe with 😂 I'm not sure it's that simple. Many fans who have tried to help the club have numerous examples of when we've been mislead. Public statements from the club have been found to be false. Private briefings from the club have definitely been false and always blame the person who has just left. That's why some of this discussion seems a bit hollow. People are parroting things they've been told, on every side, and no one knows what's really true or what's gone wrong. It's definitely not that we had a bus driver staying in the team hotel, that's for sure.
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Post by Pilch on Mar 29, 2024 11:31:56 GMT 1
What has toilet seats got to do with this years accounts? yes I why didn't I do something about it,
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Post by dibblydobbly on Mar 29, 2024 11:33:08 GMT 1
What has toilet seats got to do with this years accounts? Suspect the accounts will make fine toilet paper if suitably recycled of course
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Post by davycrockett on Mar 29, 2024 11:35:39 GMT 1
We’ve moved on. Everyone’s said their bit and now picking on anything in the last 20 years they’ve got a gripe with 😂 I'm not sure it's that simple. Many fans who have tried to help the club have numerous examples of when we've been mislead. Public statements from the club have been found to be false. Private briefings from the club have definitely been false and always blame the person who has just left. That's why some of this discussion seems a bit hollow. People are parroting things they've been told, on every side, and no one knows what's really true or what's gone wrong.It's definitely not that we had a bus driver staying in the team hotel, that's for sure. I know Dave I’ve been there for 25 years but mellowed now and not quite so bitter as some……( no one particular inferred ) Some are urban myths like the kit vote. Numbers were never published the kit C debarkle was after a poll showed another as ten favourite yet kit C won. No voting figures were ever published so the vote rig was a guess.. Ive highlighted you most pertinent point
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Post by Pilch on Mar 29, 2024 11:47:23 GMT 1
Are you taking the p**s? The discussion of toilet seats was rife on here for a decade, you know full well it was. Ssshrew was one of the main catalysts, and rightly so! You're just being facetious. I agree with this, sadly. Pilch didn't you even help us all sell fanzines with free toilet seats with each issue? The seats were changed within 6 months of that. The entire fanbase knew about it for several years. It was on the list the grievances with the clipart lion and wanting to charge full price for the Port Vale game that was abandoned because of a fire. Let alone a "choose the kit" competition that was deliberately manipulated in the choices and then lied about in the results. That's why if you talk about toilet seats, clippy or kit C everyone knows what you're talking about. To pretend to not know because in your hundreds of games you've never needed a poo is one of the silliest things I've ever read on here. thanks again Dave for the accusations, having checked the fanzine forum it seems it was 2017 when you gave away a free toilet seat, not only did I stop being involved in the fanzine when I started working at Royal Mail in 2011, I didn't even manage to buy a copy since then, my Saturdays involve me rolling up at 3pm give or take 10 minutes, and my face is a rare thing in smithys theses days, I think maybe 1 pint ive had in there in the last 3 seasons and thats about an average now. by the way, there is no thread about toilet seats on this forum until months after that issue of the fanzine ( the one I totally missed and had zero input in ) hard to believe we've had a kangaroo court on this and I've had to dig for evidence to clear my name, but thats blue and amber for you "State of the Art, or Bog standard" I campaigned hard for the new stadium. Many of us did. Some of the flaws with the stadium have been discussed before, at length. The green gate, the car park, super blues way, the lack of a supporters bar, they have all been done to death. But one issue that suddenly burst out of nowhere recently was fans clamouring for, wait for it, toilet seats! So it is with this in mind we have given everyone buying a copy of this fanzine a free toilet seat cover! For me this issue crept to the surface when I started taking my little girl to games. She is five now, and I had looked forward to her being old enough to come for a while. Up came the big day last season and we went for some food in a local pub before the game, then an epic trek with a little person towards the stadium ensued. Once inside we went and waved at Lenny the Lion, joined in with a couple of songs, and generally she was just blown away by the whole thing, and loved it. That was always my dream, to take my own kids to the game like my Dad had taken me. Then it happened. She needed a wee. Now I had not really foreseen this bit, and as a father obviously her to the gents. We queued for the cubicle, and when it was our turn I opened the door for her. On entering she just grabbed my leg. Now she is normally a confident little lass but she looked up at me with this look of horror, as if to say "All this time you said you would look after me, all this time you said you would protect me, and now this!". I did not know what to do. She was never going to sit on a freezing cold metal bowl. I would not want her to because it was such a mess. I could not work out how a female could use that toilet without it being a remarkably grim experience, especially for a child. In the end, with the help of about half a toilet roll and some decent balance she did manage to have a wee but it just dawned on me that day, just what a cheap and nasty set up it is for us. Roland, do any of your grandchildren have to wee like that? Do they? Ever? What would you say if they did? What would their parents say? I remember those meetings campaigning for the new stadium. I remember us being across the table from one another, working together. But now, with one arm holding myself up against a breeze block wall and the other trying to stop my daughter falling into a metal bowl, we could not have been further apart. This stadium was not built for us plebs. It just was not. If you can't even get the toilet seats right, then what hope do we have of a safe pathway or better catering? During a recent discussion on the club's official Facebook Page it became clear that many, many others felt the same way. It was clear that women hate the toilets at the new stadium. Some men said their partners chose not to attend games and that was a clear factor. Then came men with medical conditions, and fathers taking their children. The only two solutions people came up with where to bring your own fold out toilet seat like you get for kids, or to use the disabled toilets. I guess it won't work if all women, children and men with medical issues use the disabled toilets! Brian has said he is looking for alternatives but the current design cannot have them retrospectively fitted. In a recent video he also seemed pretty dismissive of the issue, although hopefully that was just a blip and he does realise that it matters to people. I cannot think of the single place in Shrewsbury that does not have toilet seats, except maybe the police station and the prison when it was open. It seems inconceivable in this day and age for any public venue to not have them, for any place to not have them. I just don't understand.
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Post by darkshrew on Mar 29, 2024 11:48:05 GMT 1
Fair play to Roland for putting in the cash to keep it going.
Worryingly and from only a quick whiz through I think they are getting close to a going concern qualification - the club could in theory mortgage the ground to raise cash but that would not raise anywhere near even half the book value and the interest rates charged would add so much to the loss that we could be under in around 12 months.
We can all see the land around the ground being sold off - let's see how that comes through in the accounts next year and hope that Morris' have paid through the nose because I think that is the end of the low hanging fruit.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Mar 29, 2024 11:53:45 GMT 1
Oddly enough I've mellowed quite a lot too.
I'm sat here with a wry smile thinking how this thread would be on fire if Glyn was still with us, or if Gareth hasn't stopped posting.
The problem underlying it all is that "supporting" the club isn't blindly believing things that are patently untrue.
Neither is it right that people throw sticks and stones at everything and everyone to do with the club.
They're us a middle road. To praise what's good and question what isn't.
For twenty years we've been told that the club is on a sound financial footing and that's worth all the change etc. Now it's not, and that's a very real shame because it removes a key barrier to criticism.
I hate all the drama but in my experience it's the only way to create momentum for change. The club apologists will always scapegoat the fans who speak up, just like they did with the campaign for a new badge, the campaign for safe standing.
Remember the fans had to prove the club had a duty to maintain the super blues way? We were lambasted for that but over 1000 supporters a game walked up a muddy track, in pitch black for evening games. When they finally relented the path was improved by the fans themselves paying for it. It all eats away at any goodwill for when circumstances make things far worse.
I deal with it all by caring far less and going to far fewer games and not having any involvement with any fans groups at the moment. Kit C was the straw that broke this camels back because the whole thing was a sham.
Shrewsbury is a small town and I bump into burnt out and bitter ex staff & volunteers all the time. It's always the same story. Many of them don't even attend any more, or hardly ever, and that includes people who were very loyal fans and servants of the club.
But all of that is worth it because we are solvent, have a cash reserve, and are sustaining league one football...
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