The Budget

[staffordshrew]

I doubt it's going to boost the popularity of the party.

He'll say we need to keep following the plan, but it's their plan that got us into this mess.

He'll say he can't wait to cut taxes, while taxes are at their highest since the second world war.

As for what he might do in his budget, it will upset some.

He'll probably reduce National Insurance by 2p, upsetting those who pay income tax, but not NI.

He'll put the fags up, upsetting smokers.

He'll keep fuel duty at the same level, upsetting the Greens.

If he gives much away some will realise he's just trying to bribe us for our vote.

If he doesn't give much away he'll be ridiculed.

It's going to be the desperate budget of a dying government.  Please throw in the towel and get Rishi to declare an election instead.

[northwestman]

Rumour has it that Hunt will be cutting 2p off N.I. All the papers are predicting this.

This will be cheaper than taking 2p off income tax as it excludes all pensioners. However, as the over 65s is the only demographic which seems remotely interested in voting for the Tories in any numbers, this does seem to be a somewhat questionable strategy.

While a cut in national insurance would on its own save workers hundreds of pounds a year, the effect of the tax cut would be outweighed by the Treasury’s decision to freeze the salary thresholds for both national insurance and income tax in cash terms.

Calculations by the Resolution Foundation show that only those paid between £27,000 and £59,000 a year will be better off as a result of both the autumn statement and Wednesday’s budget, once the freeze in thresholds are accounted for. Those paid £16,000 will lose almost £500 a year, as will those receiving more than £60,000.

Surely the electorate will see through this squalid smoke and mirrors exercise?

[DiglisShrew]

Good to see the grants to those poor residents of Canary Wharf and The National Theatre in London !! Long live “levelling up “ !! 👍🙄

[ssshrew]

Absolutely I nearly choked. Good to see the Tories haven’t forgotten their friends.

I’m pleased with the budget - I expected nothing and that’s what I got!

[northwestman]

Jeremy Hunt has just stuck two fingers up at pensioners.

Those aged 66 and over do not pay NI, and as a result they have been left empty-handed twice now following this Budget and last year’s Autumn Statement. That’s around £900 of personal taxation giveaways that pensioners have missed out on in the past six months.

Pensioners of course benefit from the Government’s sworn commitment to the triple lock that last year handed those on the new state pension an annual increase of around £1,000, and will add another £900 next month.

This would be all well and good had pensioners not been asked to pay significantly more tax at the same time.

By increasing the tax burden on private pensions, Mr Hunt is making it clear that anyone who has prudently saved is now fair game to pick up the bill for Britain’s wasteful public spending.

It is tantamount to theft of what has already been earned and carefully invested.

Every pensioner who has been dragged into the income tax trap also has to make arrangements with HM Revenue and Customs to cover what they owe, resulting in yet more unwelcome admin in retirement.

Hunt really should have raised the personal allowance to perhaps £20,000 and raised the higher rate threshold too. Only when this is done, can we all be sure we are paying a fair rate.

Daily Telegraph.

[ssshrew]

Yep. He’s done nothing for us oldies. Still, as I say, I wasn’t expecting anything. I know I don’t count for anything any more.

I just hope the grey voters respond suitably at the ballot box and that the Penny has finally dropped with them.

[Deleted]

I wonder if Labour will be more generous to pensioners in their future budgets?

The continued freeze in the personal allowance really narks me, and I don't understand why the annual ISA allowance remains static.

[northwestman]

Mar 6, 2024 18:10:27 GMT 1 @tarporleyblue said:

I wonder if Labour will be more generous to pensioners in their future budgets?

The continued freeze in the personal allowance really narks me.

Millions are paying higher rates of tax as a result of prime minister Rishi Sunak’s decision to freeze thresholds in March 2021. Tax bands are normally increased with inflation in order to stop workers from drifting into higher income tax brackets as their wages rise.

The freeze was initially expected to raise £8bn and last until 2026. But Hunt then extended the freeze until 2028-29 and widened it to include NI contribution thresholds.

The result is that Britain will pay an extra £44.6bn because of the stealth tax raid, according to the Office for Budget Responsibility.

Workers start paying 20pc income tax once they earn over £12,570 a year. The higher rate of 40pc then kicks in at £50,270.

Both of these thresholds have been frozen until 2028-29 under the current rules. As a result, almost four million more people will start paying income tax, while three million will be dragged into the higher rate.

[Worthingshrew]

He made a big play about savings through efficiency achieved by new IT in the NHS.
All sounds great but the last 20 years have seen a multitude of IT plans, projects etc to transform the NHS which have failed to deliver the promised benefits, and only delivered bigger profits for IT consultants.

[ssshrew]

And don’t forget IT Systems are fine until they go wrong or are hacked!

I’d rather see more money paid to staff to encourage more people to work for the NHS. The last thing they need at the moment is more blooming non medical staff.

[Worthingshrew]

If you could achieve it, it would deliver great benefits, but as someone who spent nearly 20 years in NHS and primary care, sadly I'm not at all confident it will be achieved.

[northwestman]

According to the Institute for Fiscal Studies for every £1 given back to workers (including the self-employed) by the national insurance cuts, £1.30 will have been taken away due to threshold changes between 2021 and 2024, with this rising to £1.90 in 2027. (the i)

I've said this so many times now - the freezing of income tax thresholds aka fiscal drag or stealth tax is the most iniquitous tax going - not least because even now so many of the population seem to be unaware of its effect.

[staffordshrew]

Mar 6, 2024 17:59:53 GMT 1 northwestman said:

Jeremy Hunt has just stuck two fingers up at pensioners.

Those aged 66 and over do not pay NI, and as a result they have been left empty-handed twice now following this Budget and last year’s Autumn Statement. That’s around £900 of personal taxation giveaways that pensioners have missed out on in the past six months.

Pensioners of course benefit from the Government’s sworn commitment to the triple lock that last year handed those on the new state pension an annual increase of around £1,000, and will add another £900 next month.

This would be all well and good had pensioners not been asked to pay significantly more tax at the same time.

By increasing the tax burden on private pensions, Mr Hunt is making it clear that anyone who has prudently saved is now fair game to pick up the bill for Britain’s wasteful public spending.

It is tantamount to theft of what has already been earned and carefully invested.

Every pensioner who has been dragged into the income tax trap also has to make arrangements with HM Revenue and Customs to cover what they owe, resulting in yet more unwelcome admin in retirement.

Hunt really should have raised the personal allowance to perhaps £20,000 and raised the higher rate threshold too. Only when this is done, can we all be sure we are paying a fair rate.

Daily Telegraph.

Has he forgotten pensioners have a vote?

[staffordshrew]

Would a 1p cut in income tax really have cost more than a 2p cut in NI? Just asking because he did promise a 1p cut in income tax in 2024 and this would have been a great opportunity to keep a promise.

[MartinB]

How are the Tories keeping a straight face when saying they have cut taxes when lowering National Insurance?

When they put Nationa Insurance up they insisted it wasn't a tax rise so they hadn't breached their election commitment not to raise taxes.

Also hints they want to scrap National Insurance. No interviews asking how that would affect people qualifying for state pension. Suspect long term plan is to scrap state pension via back door. They are already working on it when they raise lower earning limit for National Insurance

[ssshrew]

I’m just back from having blood tests and the two machines at the local hospital that do quick checks are both out of action - not for the first time. Talking to the staff there they said they’d rather have funding for new machines than some scheme to improve admin.

The Tories just don’t have a clue about day to day problems faced by front line staff and what’s worse is that they really couldn’t care less.

[northwestman]

Keeping personal tax brackets frozen since April 2021 (instead of linking them to inflation) increased receipts by £12 billion last year, and led to 4.2 million more workers paying income tax. If nothing shifts by 2028, more than one in eight nurses and one in four teachers will be paying the 40 to 45 per cent rate. Workers on less than £30,000 are worse off overall because of this effect, known as “fiscal drag”, despite the last two cuts in national insurance.

[northwestman]

inews.co.uk/news/politics/voters-budget-wont-help-cost-living-snap-poll-2943891

Voters do not believe the Budget has not done enough to help put money back into their pockets, polling has revealed.

Jeremy Hunt delivered what could be the last fiscal statement before the next election – a campaign expected to be dominated by the cost of living.

But, according to a snap poll of voters, conducted in the hours after the statement, a vast majority do not expect his announcements to make any difference.

Almost three quarters (74 per cent) of voters do not think the measures announced are enough to help with the cost of living.

The poll, conducted by Savanta, also found there had been an 11 point increase – to 60 per cent – of people saying the government’s economic plan “is not working”.

[davycrockett]

Mar 7, 2024 12:19:16 GMT 1 northwestman said:

Keeping personal tax brackets frozen since April 2021 (instead of linking them to inflation) increased receipts by £12 billion last year, and led to 4.2 million more workers paying income tax. If nothing shifts by 2028, more than one in eight nurses and one in four teachers will be paying the 40 to 45 per cent rate. Workers on less than £30,000 are worse off overall because of this effect, known as “fiscal drag”, despite the last two cuts in national insurance.

Not to mention the reductions in Dividend tax free allowances and capital gains allowances meaning millions (estimated to be 4 million) are being bought back into Self Assesment at a time when the inland revenue can’t cope with the existing numbers. Had to close the help lines last year. The good new may be how will they enforce it when they realise 

Capital gains was £12k last year, reduced to £6k now and £3k next year. 

Dividend allowance £2000 last year, £1000 this year and £500 next. 

[davycrockett]

Mar 7, 2024 12:35:56 GMT 1 northwestman said:

inews.co.uk/news/politics/voters-budget-wont-help-cost-living-snap-poll-2943891

Voters do not believe the Budget has not done enough to help put money back into their pockets, polling has revealed.

Jeremy Hunt delivered what could be the last fiscal statement before the next election – a campaign expected to be dominated by the cost of living.

But, according to a snap poll of voters, conducted in the hours after the statement, a vast majority do not expect his announcements to make any difference.

Almost three quarters (74 per cent) of voters do not think the measures announced are enough to help with the cost of living.

The poll, conducted by Savanta, also found there had been an 11 point increase – to 60 per cent – of people saying the government’s economic plan “is not working”.

When you see broken Britain everywhere is it realistic to expect tax cuts?

Everything we complain about takes money to put right from pot holes to the NHS so hey let’s pay less. Doesn’t really add up. 

[northwestman]

Mar 7, 2024 12:58:52 GMT 1 davycrockett said:

Mar 7, 2024 12:35:56 GMT 1 northwestman said:

inews.co.uk/news/politics/voters-budget-wont-help-cost-living-snap-poll-2943891

Voters do not believe the Budget has not done enough to help put money back into their pockets, polling has revealed.

Jeremy Hunt delivered what could be the last fiscal statement before the next election – a campaign expected to be dominated by the cost of living.

But, according to a snap poll of voters, conducted in the hours after the statement, a vast majority do not expect his announcements to make any difference.

Almost three quarters (74 per cent) of voters do not think the measures announced are enough to help with the cost of living.

The poll, conducted by Savanta, also found there had been an 11 point increase – to 60 per cent – of people saying the government’s economic plan “is not working”.

When you see broken Britain everywhere is it realistic to expect tax cuts?

Everything we complain about takes money to put right from pot holes to the NHS so hey let’s pay less. Doesn’t really add up. 

Agreed. But this is why we have insufficient money to put things right:

www.bestforbritain.org/scandalous_spending_tracker

www.local.gov.uk/about/news/funding-gap-growing-councils-firmly-eye-inflationary-storm

[northwestman]

Pensioners and high earners are the biggest losers from Jeremy Hunt and Rishi Sunak’s stealth tax raids as state spending on millennials is prioritised over baby boomers.

The Resolution Foundation and the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) both said the elderly would be worse off at the end of this Parliament than they were at the start as a freeze on tax thresholds drags them into paying income tax.

In analysis published after Wednesday’s Budget, the Resolution Foundation warned that eight million retirees faced an average £1,000 hit to their incomes as a result of a six-year freeze on income tax thresholds.

Paul Johnson, director of the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS), said pensioners paying higher tax rates faced an even bigger hit of £3,000 as a result of policies announced in this Parliament. He added that “well over” 60pc of pensioners were now subject to income tax.

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/03/07/pensioners-losses-tory-tax-raid-hunt-boosts-millennials/

[staffordshrew]

We know how sneaky this government can be looking at the way various thresholds before paying all sorts of taxes are being reduced. Well, bear in mind when we finally get a General Election that they want to scrap National Insurance, but admit Income Tax will have to go up a certain amount to balance the tax take.

So, if you are approaching state pension age, whether you take your pension or continue to work, you would be taxed at the increased Income Tax rate, no more ending paying NI at state pension age as per the current rule:
'You do not pay National Insurance after you reach State Pension age - unless you’re self-employed and pay Class 4 contributions. You stop paying Class 4 contributions at the end of the tax year in which you reach State Pension age.'

[MartinB]

Mar 7, 2024 12:58:52 GMT 1 davycrockett said:

Mar 7, 2024 12:35:56 GMT 1 northwestman said:

inews.co.uk/news/politics/voters-budget-wont-help-cost-living-snap-poll-2943891

Voters do not believe the Budget has not done enough to help put money back into their pockets, polling has revealed.

Jeremy Hunt delivered what could be the last fiscal statement before the next election – a campaign expected to be dominated by the cost of living.

But, according to a snap poll of voters, conducted in the hours after the statement, a vast majority do not expect his announcements to make any difference.

Almost three quarters (74 per cent) of voters do not think the measures announced are enough to help with the cost of living.

The poll, conducted by Savanta, also found there had been an 11 point increase – to 60 per cent – of people saying the government’s economic plan “is not working”.

When you see broken Britain everywhere is it realistic to expect tax cuts?

Everything we complain about takes money to put right from pot holes to the NHS so hey let’s pay less. Doesn’t really add up. 

Hopefully after election tax money will be spent on pot holes, treating ill people etc rather than being given to Sunak's mother and father in laws companies

[northwestman]

In response to the budget, Starmer declared “the national credit card is maxed out” while Reeves opted for the old chestnut, “There’s no magic money tree.” Adopting such framing is not just economically illiterate, it fences Labour in for how a future government can raise funds and spend them. Before you know it, Reeves is announcing that – now that Hunt has taken her non-dom tax revenue policy – she intends to pay for the NHS and school breakfasts through (wait for it) “future savings to public spending”. Who needs a wealth tax when you can squeeze councils facing bankruptcy?

Under a Starmer government, the wealthy will never be asked to pay their fair share in tax. When pushed, it is those with the least – poor, sick and disabled people – who will be expected to give the most.

That Rishi Sunak has just hinted at further tax cuts for workers paid for by a squeeze on benefits makes it even more pressing for the official opposition to actually present an alternative.

If you reinforce the fear that disabled and sick people are a burden on the struggling taxpayer, there is less pressure to address real insecurity such as low wages and crumbling services once in office. If you put the responsibility for the gaps in the labour market firmly on the individual now, there will soon be less focus on the structural issues – from long NHS waiting lists to poor housing – that are actually causing them.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/mar/12/keir-starmer-labour-poor-sick-disabled-tory