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Post by ssshrew on Dec 4, 2022 12:20:15 GMT 1
Here's Conservative Party chairman Nadim Zahawi speaking to Laura Kuenssberg earlier on the show.
Quizzed on what the government is doing about planned strikes, he said that demands from unions for a 19% pay rise for nurses would cost the NHS £10bn.
"That it is money which should be put on the NHS front line," he added.
Could someone please explain to him that nurses are the front line or at least that’s what we were lead to believe when an ex PM encouraged us all to stand and clap them once a week!
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Post by zenfootball2 on Dec 4, 2022 13:04:50 GMT 1
Another in a long line of conservative hypocrites
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Post by kenwood on Dec 4, 2022 13:36:39 GMT 1
I get tremendously annoyed when I realise that , as legions of nurses leave the profession because they cannot afford to live on their present salaries , their shifts are being covered by agency staff , themselves nurses , costing the nhs millions.
What sort of confused thinking allows this to happen .
So yes, in my opinion pay nurses more, give them a decent pay rise and by so doing save the nhs a considerable sum.
I don’t know this for certain but are 12 hour shifts still the norm.
Surely this isn’t right , staff must be knackered trying to do their job to a high standard when shift patterns mean that they are out on their feet .
My opinion obviously , please feel free to correct my thinking and show me that my understanding of the situation is far off the mark.
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Post by ssshrew on Dec 4, 2022 14:10:52 GMT 1
I can’t contradict a single word. What a sorry state we are in for them to be necessary.
The comments in this interview certainly do not inspire confidence for the future that’s for sure.
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Post by northwestman on Dec 4, 2022 17:22:30 GMT 1
Nadhim Zahawi has urged nurses to accept a lower pay rise to send a “very clear message” to Vladimir Putin, the Russian president.
Up to 100,000 nurses plan to walk out on Dec 15 and 20 as the Royal College of Nursing (RCN) demands an above-inflation pay rise of 19 per cent for its workers.
Mr Zahawi, the Conservative Party chairman, confirmed that the Government has contingency plans in place to minimise disruption across the public sector.
But he told unions it was time to “try and negotiate” and insisted soaring costs facing Britons this winter were predominantly because of the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
“We have to come together, this is not a time to be divided,” he told Sky’s Sophie Ridge.
“I hope to send a very clear message to Mr Putin that he cannot use energy as a weapon in this way.
Daily Telegraph.
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Post by ssshrew on Dec 4, 2022 18:37:14 GMT 1
Nurses have been underpaid and undervalued for years before Putin.
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Post by martinshrew on Dec 4, 2022 19:35:39 GMT 1
What's your average nurses salary a year after qualifying/practicing? £30k+ basic?
Most do a 3 day week, get evening/weekend/night enhancements, plentiful amounts of overtime, full sick and holiday pay, union representation, a good pension.
If you want to look at a truly underpaid profession it's the carers.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Dec 4, 2022 19:42:00 GMT 1
I get tremendously annoyed when I realise that , as legions of nurses leave the profession because they cannot afford to live on their present salaries , their shifts are being covered by agency staff , themselves nurses , costing the nhs millions. What sort of confused thinking allows this to happen . So yes, in my opinion pay nurses more, give them a decent pay rise and by so doing save the nhs a considerable sum. I don’t know this for certain but are 12 hour shifts still the norm. Surely this isn’t right , staff must be knackered trying to do their job to a high standard when shift patterns mean that they are out on their feet . My opinion obviously , please feel free to correct my thinking and show me that my understanding of the situation is far off the mark. i dont know about Nurses but 12 hour shifts are the norm for paramedics my daughter is one and often ends up doing a 14 hour shift. due to a call out just before the end of her shift, i do know some nurses work for agencys because they can get a decent wage . |
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Post by zenfootball2 on Dec 4, 2022 19:47:57 GMT 1
What's your average nurses salary a year after qualifying/practicing? £30k+ basic? Most do a 3 day week, get evening/weekend/night enhancements, plentiful amounts of overtime, full sick and holiday pay, union representation, a good pension. If you want to look at a truly underpaid profession it's the carers. carers are underpaid and that needs sorting out but Nurses do a three year degree course , most nurses are band 5 that is £27.055 www.nhsemployers.org/articles/pay-scales-202223 Entry step point Years until eligible for pay progression Intermediate step point Years until eligible for pay progression Band 5 £27,055 2 £29,180 2 Top step point £32,934 |
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Post by kenwood on Dec 4, 2022 19:55:56 GMT 1
What's your average nurses salary a year after qualifying/practicing? £30k+ basic?do Most do a 3 day week, get evening/weekend/night enhancements, plentiful amounts of overtime, full sick and holiday pay, union representation, a good pension. If you want to look at a truly underpaid profession it's the carers. I do think nurses deserve a good pay rise but totally agree with your comment re carers . Not only staff working in residential homes but also those working for private concerns or the local authority , who look after people in their own homes , in other words domicillary care . In the main they do a truly excellent job . Unfortunately I cannot see things improving for them and if our carers disappear then we really are in trouble . Local authorities really need a increase in their designated social care budgets by some margin just to maintain the level we are at now. |
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Post by zenfootball2 on Dec 4, 2022 21:02:14 GMT 1
What's your average nurses salary a year after qualifying/practicing? £30k+ basic?do Most do a 3 day week, get evening/weekend/night enhancements, plentiful amounts of overtime, full sick and holiday pay, union representation, a good pension. If you want to look at a truly underpaid profession it's the carers. I do think nurses deserve a good pay rise but totally agree with your comment re carers . Not only staff working in residential homes but also those working for private concerns or the local authority , who look after people in their own homes , in other words domicillary care . In the main they do a truly excellent job . Unfortunately I cannot see things improving for them and if our carers disappear then we really are in trouble . Local authorities really need a increase in their designated social care budgets by some margin just to maintain the level we are at now. with councils now able to increase rates by more than a fixed level it could give them an option to put more money into social care, but with so much demands on the council who knows how they will use the extra money. |
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Post by wookeywombat on Dec 4, 2022 22:10:49 GMT 1
As a privileged recipient of the re-instatement of the triple lock on the pension, I would find it hypercritical to argue against any pay rise which off sets the rate of inflation.
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Post by ssshrew on Dec 4, 2022 22:14:11 GMT 1
Me too.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2022 7:15:21 GMT 1
The question is, how valued are our nurses? Ask someone who has ever needed hospital treatment and there is one only one answer. Ask a Tory politician and you'll get the opposite answer.
The last decade has seen their wages drop in real terms by 8%. Inflation is currently running at over 10%. To get them back to a similar position to where they were in 2010, prior to austerity, requires a pay rise of at least 18%. I am sure that if the government were to offer somewhere in the region of 13-14% the nurses and other NHS staff would be willing to accept, but they can't even come close to that, with the latest offer being around 9.3% for the lowest earners and less than 6% for most.
The loss of the bursary and university debts of over £40,000 means that there are now fewer people applying to join the profession, the pathetic £5,000 a year training grant barely makes a dent for many, as they only qualify for that grant if they choose to specialise in certain areas, where there are only limited places.
There are somehow still more applicants for nursing courses than there are places available. In 2011 the government reduced the number of new nursing courses in the UK to deliberately 'prevent an oversupply of nurses', then in 2017 they lifted that cap and dumped the bursary in what can only be called a parallel universe moment. Of course telling everyone that we need more nurses and then making them pay for the privilege is going to work. Typical Tory genius moment that one.
We need to make the profession attractive again, stop hemorrhaging experienced nurses, bring back full bursaries, or at least make the £5,000 grant available to all, bring in more flexible working patterns to bring back some of those that have left the profession and most importantly pay them what they are bloody well worth. Nursing is a profession, pay them professional wages.
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Post by martinshrew on Dec 5, 2022 10:06:47 GMT 1
I still see £30k as an ok wage, but it's going to end up being £33k+ after this. Plus your evening/weekend/night enhancement and the odd overtime shift you're talking well over £36k. Most will smash the £3,000 a month if they're doing shifts which 99% do.
Carers on the other hand, which I'd argue is still a profession will be on near minimum wage, driving their own car from house to house, wear and tear, periods of not being paid between jobs and struggling to get anywhere near £2,000 a month.
If those in the NHS on £50k+ took a 5% rise to give those on under £25k a 15% rise with those in the middle taking 10% it would even things up a little, but it won't happen in that organisation.
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Post by kenwood on Dec 5, 2022 16:02:58 GMT 1
I still see £30k as an ok wage, but it's going to end up being £33k+ after this. Plus your evening/weekend/night enhancement and the odd overtime shift you're talking well over £36k. Most will smash the £3,000 a month if they're doing shifts which 99% do. Carers on the other hand, which I'd argue is still a profession will be on near minimum wage, driving their own car from house to house, wear and tear, periods of not being paid between jobs and struggling to get anywhere near £2,000 a month. If those in the NHS on £50k+ took a 5% rise to give those on under £25k a 15% rise with those in the middle taking 10% it would even things up a little, but it won't happen in that organisation. The other issue with domicillary care is that carers often visit homes by themselves and although it may seem ridiculous to some they are at risk going out at night and early morning . Support the nursing profession but let’s not forget the carers , they are equally deserving of a better wage . |
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Post by frankwellshrews on Dec 5, 2022 16:14:30 GMT 1
I get tremendously annoyed when I realise that , as legions of nurses leave the profession because they cannot afford to live on their present salaries , their shifts are being covered by agency staff , themselves nurses , costing the nhs millions. What sort of confused thinking allows this to happen . So yes, in my opinion pay nurses more, give them a decent pay rise and by so doing save the nhs a considerable sum. I don’t know this for certain but are 12 hour shifts still the norm. Surely this isn’t right , staff must be knackered trying to do their job to a high standard when shift patterns mean that they are out on their feet . My opinion obviously , please feel free to correct my thinking and show me that my understanding of the situation is far off the mark. It's the same thinking that thinks handing over billions to hotels is a better solution than a properly funded UK border force and facilities. What it all boils down to is the private sector getting a cut; use of employment agencies allows parasitic middlemen to get in and take a slice of the pie for doing feck all. In tory world this is an "efficient market", all the while failing to realise that artificially holding down wages at one end makes it anything but. And this is the party we're supposed to believe supports aspiration (by overseeing a huge real terms paycut for people who've actually bothered to go out and get degrees and qualifications, supposedly the kind of hardworking people conservatism represents, over their last decade in office) and understands the economy. Absolute farce, just a shame it takes a catastrophe for people to come to their senses and see the tories for what they are. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2022 16:21:03 GMT 1
When I worked in the NHS, (up until 2019) we were subject to a pay freeze and non-consolidated pay increases for a number of years. Little wonder therefore that the nurses are now seeking a 19% increase in their pay to make up for years of being undervalued by successive Governments.
Those at the top of their pay scale don't have annual increments to look forward to either.
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Post by davycrockett on Dec 5, 2022 17:22:35 GMT 1
I get tremendously annoyed when I realise that , as legions of nurses leave the profession because they cannot afford to live on their present salaries , their shifts are being covered by agency staff , themselves nurses , costing the nhs millions. What sort of confused thinking allows this to happen . So yes, in my opinion pay nurses more, give them a decent pay rise and by so doing save the nhs a considerable sum. I don’t know this for certain but are 12 hour shifts still the norm. Surely this isn’t right , staff must be knackered trying to do their job to a high standard when shift patterns mean that they are out on their feet . My opinion obviously , please feel free to correct my thinking and show me that my understanding of the situation is far off the mark. i dont know about Nurses but 12 hour shifts are the norm for paramedics my daughter is one and often ends up doing a 14 hour shift. due to a call out just before the end of her shift, i do know some nurses work for agencys because they can get a decent wage . And that’s the problem. A shortage of nurses employed by the NHS but partly because they choose to work for agencies where they can earn a weeks wage for working 2/3 shifts. Nurses are valued but there’s something wrong with the system because those that work for agencies can pick and choose shifts to suit knowing they’ll get paid more as the NHS have to cover the shortages. They won’t apply for job vacancies because working for an agency is better paid and more flexible leaving a worse position for the NHS meaning they have to pay agencies more. It’s a mess. (I don’t blame them it just costs the NHS lads more) (One of the biggest benefits of being an agency nurse is that agency work often pays better. Hourly rates are lucrative in comparison to permanent bank staff members. This can increase by as much as 66% more than bank staff – which is considerably higher. uk.indeed.com/career/agency-nurse/salaries ) When I was in hospital a nurse came down from Southport to do her two night shifts a week earning more than if she worked full time for the NHS. The solutions stopping so many agency nurses. First thing to do is remove the need for a degree and have a pathway for Health Care Workers to progress to nursing without attending Uni. |
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Post by staffordshrew on Dec 5, 2022 19:29:16 GMT 1
The Tories trying everything to set the public against all the strikers. Well, I hope they have misjudged the mood of the country, why should hard working people continue to settle for, what amounts to, pay cuts.
Sunak said last week that he had done something to sort out social care. Whatever it was it wasn't enough, care workers continue to be even worse off, 10% of hospital beds are blocked by people who could move to care, people in care continue to lose their house to pay for care. An absolute disgrace which Boris told us he was fixing.
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Post by martinshrew on Dec 5, 2022 19:40:01 GMT 1
The Tories trying everything to set the public against all the strikers. Well, I hope they have misjudged the mood of the country, why should hard working people continue to settle for, what amounts to, pay cuts. Sunak said last week that he had done something to sort out social care. Whatever it was it wasn't enough, care workers continue to be even worse off, 10% of hospital beds are blocked by people who could move to care, people in care continue to ose their house to pay for care. An absolute disgrace which Boris told us he was fixing. In the same way people shouldn't settle for inflation pay rises when inflation is sub 2%, then also shouldn't just expect inflation based pay rises when it's higher. 19% is a ridiculous, ridiculous demand; then again if it was 19% for those under £20k, inflation for those £20-35k and 5% for those above £35k capped at £50k I'd tolerate that, the greedy middle management would never though. |
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Post by zenfootball2 on Dec 5, 2022 20:53:13 GMT 1
i dont know about Nurses but 12 hour shifts are the norm for paramedics my daughter is one and often ends up doing a 14 hour shift. due to a call out just before the end of her shift, i do know some nurses work for agencys because they can get a decent wage . And that’s the problem. A shortage of nurses employed by the NHS but partly because they choose to work for agencies where they can earn a weeks wage for working 2/3 shifts. Nurses are valued but there’s something wrong with the system because those that work for agencies can pick and choose shifts to suit knowing they’ll get paid more as the NHS have to cover the shortages. They won’t apply for job vacancies because working for an agency is better paid and more flexible leaving a worse position for the NHS meaning they have to pay agencies more. It’s a mess. (I don’t blame them it just costs the NHS lads more) (One of the biggest benefits of being an agency nurse is that agency work often pays better. Hourly rates are lucrative in comparison to permanent bank staff members. This can increase by as much as 66% more than bank staff – which is considerably higher. uk.indeed.com/career/agency-nurse/salaries ) When I was in hospital a nurse came down from Southport to do her two night shifts a week earning more than if she worked full time for the NHS. The solutions stopping so many agency nurses. First thing to do is remove the need for a degree and have a pathway for Health Care Workers to progress to nursing without attending Uni. the big mistake the NHS did was to stop training enrolled nurses as many nurisn auxilarys did that training( which is what i did then a conversation course to RMN). the big issue we have now is they dont train enough nurses and the drop out rate during training and in the first two years of been qualified is very high. |
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Post by zenfootball2 on Dec 5, 2022 20:54:55 GMT 1
i dont know about Nurses but 12 hour shifts are the norm for paramedics my daughter is one and often ends up doing a 14 hour shift. due to a call out just before the end of her shift, i do know some nurses work for agencys because they can get a decent wage . And that’s the problem. A shortage of nurses employed by the NHS but partly because they choose to work for agencies where they can earn a weeks wage for working 2/3 shifts. Nurses are valued but there’s something wrong with the system because those that work for agencies can pick and choose shifts to suit knowing they’ll get paid more as the NHS have to cover the shortages. They won’t apply for job vacancies because working for an agency is better paid and more flexible leaving a worse position for the NHS meaning they have to pay agencies more. It’s a mess. (I don’t blame them it just costs the NHS lads more) (One of the biggest benefits of being an agency nurse is that agency work often pays better. Hourly rates are lucrative in comparison to permanent bank staff members. This can increase by as much as 66% more than bank staff – which is considerably higher. uk.indeed.com/career/agency-nurse/salaries ) When I was in hospital a nurse came down from Southport to do her two night shifts a week earning more than if she worked full time for the NHS. The solutions stopping so many agency nurses. First thing to do is remove the need for a degree and have a pathway for Health Care Workers to progress to nursing without attending Uni.  |
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