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Post by block12massive on Dec 1, 2022 10:41:11 GMT 1
I lived in Leicester in 2012 when the census was published which I believe 'officially' made the city a non-white majority city - the first for a major city in the UK.
I remember the usual fawning by the mayor and MPs in the local press at how diversity should be 'celebrated' is 'our strength' and the usual copy and paste guff.
People will have their opinions of Nigel Farage and the 'Great Replacement' theorists, but many would find the response by the Home Secretary to be tone deaf, myself included.
I think significant population changes and behaviours do matters and should be discussed openly as such. The heavily increasing numbers of foreign-born British nationals also doesn't reflect entirely well on a terminally ill Conservative government who's votership strongly favours cuts to immigration.
I've always found the publishing of the census to be an intriguing thing. Intrusive, self-fulfilling or both, depending on your point of view.
What does everyone else think?
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Post by staffordshrew on Dec 1, 2022 12:16:22 GMT 1
On Christianity, People used to just put that because they were baptized as such. Doubt there is any real change, except people are saying what they actually do now, plus getting married is now just as good as church, the location, etc. in a civil ceremony.
On race, so what! Britain needs young people to take over the jobs of an aging "boomer" generation. Britain has thrived on Irish immigrants, etc. for centuries.
Allow those Albanians to work while waiting a decision, get the decisions done, get those that are allowed to stay integrated into our society. The Germans, I understand, do recognise that they need immigration - learn from them.
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Post by davycrockett on Dec 1, 2022 12:33:36 GMT 1
I agree with the So What. By definition The British Isles is a melting pot of races and continually changing as it always has.
Get a DNA test and you’ll find out.
So what’s the problem?
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Post by frankwellshrews on Dec 1, 2022 13:14:54 GMT 1
I think the "So What?" is a reference to the constant dog whistling, nudge nudge wink wink of all this. Nigel and Co often stop short of actually explaining what they mean beyond some vagaries around "we need to discuss this".
If you're uncomfortable with having minority white cities and think steps should be taken to change it just come out and say so. Otherwise what are you expecting the rest of us to do about it?
I saw some analysis which suggested he was wrong about London and Manchester this morning but regardless, what does the crossing of an arbitrary numerical boundary change? Areas like Birmingham's "inner circle", the East End etc have been overwhelmingly populated by British Asian people for decades now. This isn't new. Why does Nigel feel the census is a particular trigger for debate?
Sounds an awful lot like s**t stirring to me.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Dec 1, 2022 13:18:28 GMT 1
I think its a poor response from Javid. I think he would be better off completely ignoring Farage but if he does see a need to engage then perhaps he ought to do so a little more than he has done here (perhaps he has done elsewhere, not sure). And I say that because there are many people in the UK who are concerned about the levels, rate and makeup of immigration to the UK and I'm sure to many he appears to dismiss those concerns out of hand. And I would have thought politicians would have learnt from the past. I mean we have been here before and that led to Farage, UKIP and Brexit. If Farage has any plans to get back into politics I'm sure this sort of thing will be music to his ears.
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Post by frankwellshrews on Dec 1, 2022 13:58:11 GMT 1
I think its a poor response from Javid. I think he would be better off completely ignoring Farage but if he does see a need to engage then perhaps he ought to do so a little more than he has done here (perhaps he has done elsewhere, not sure). And I say that because there are many people in the UK who are concerned about the levels, rate and makeup of immigration to the UK and I'm sure to many he appears to dismiss those concerns out of hand. And I would have thought politicians would have learnt from the past. I mean we have been here before and that led to Farage, UKIP and Brexit. If Farage has any plans to get back into politics I'm sure this sort of thing will be music to his ears. The concerns are poorly articulated though. It seems like yet more use of "immigration" as a catch all term for people to hang various woes on. I agree, I think the smart move would be to ignore, not engage and amplify. I thought Nige was involved with Reform UK? Maybe electoral reform is not as easy a "hook" issue as immigration so he's back to doing this again. |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Dec 1, 2022 14:26:59 GMT 1
I think its a poor response from Javid. I think he would be better off completely ignoring Farage but if he does see a need to engage then perhaps he ought to do so a little more than he has done here (perhaps he has done elsewhere, not sure). And I say that because there are many people in the UK who are concerned about the levels, rate and makeup of immigration to the UK and I'm sure to many he appears to dismiss those concerns out of hand. And I would have thought politicians would have learnt from the past. I mean we have been here before and that led to Farage, UKIP and Brexit. If Farage has any plans to get back into politics I'm sure this sort of thing will be music to his ears. The concerns are poorly articulated though. It seems like yet more use of "immigration" as a catch all term for people to hang various woes on. I agree, I think the smart move would be to ignore, not engage and amplify. I thought Nige was involved with Reform UK? Maybe electoral reform is not as easy a "hook" issue as immigration so he's back to doing this again. But those concerns are held by many people in the UK so not sure what you are getting at. And that may be concern about the pressure the current rate of immigration puts on services and infrastructure or concern about the social fabric of communities. And I would say its not the best approach to simply ignore or dismiss those concerns (as Javi appears to be doing here). If he is to get involved I think he ought to do better than that. And no idea what Farage is up to these days but if he looking to get back into politics then seeing the two main parties looking to ignore or dismiss voters concerns will be more than welcome I'm sure. As it was in the past. |
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Post by ssshrew on Dec 1, 2022 14:58:49 GMT 1
Certainly a more professional and dignified approach would have been so much better. A curt so what just adds fuel to the fire. It’s a fine comment to make amongst trusted friends and family but if you are going to go public then a reasoned response would have been better particularly when replying to someone as media savvy as Farage.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Dec 1, 2022 15:03:40 GMT 1
Sunak was right so what but he lives a life of wealth and privelage;
unless you have a open discussion about this issue , it leaves the door open to extremists to exploit. such a responce from Sunak was unwise and ill thought out. there are many posatives to having a multicultrual country but the sheer volume is somthing that does cause concern for a number of reason, the strain on the infastructure, the lack of intergration ( if you wont to see how it is done better look at Canda ,( they have a mixture of immigrants high skill or key skills the country needs and a smaller % from low skilled immigrants who would not normally meet canada entry requirmenty such as been able to speak english and french inclusivity classes are offered to all imigrants to be aware of Canada culture and also language classes for thoughs who need it) .
i have no idea what skill elements are of the people who cross the channel and therfore i have no idea if they would meet the entry recuirments if they tried to come to the country legally.
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Post by ssshrew on Dec 1, 2022 15:09:58 GMT 1
Just a gentle point out that it’s Javid who said so what but the principle is exactly the same.
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Post by block12massive on Dec 1, 2022 15:11:50 GMT 1
I think its a poor response from Javid. I think he would be better off completely ignoring Farage but if he does see a need to engage then perhaps he ought to do so a little more than he has done here (perhaps he has done elsewhere, not sure). And I say that because there are many people in the UK who are concerned about the levels, rate and makeup of immigration to the UK and I'm sure to many he appears to dismiss those concerns out of hand. And I would have thought politicians would have learnt from the past. I mean we have been here before and that led to Farage, UKIP and Brexit. If Farage has any plans to get back into politics I'm sure this sort of thing will be music to his ears. The concerns are poorly articulated though. I agree with this but then neither are the benefits of a growing population, demographic changes and - inevitably - the immigration debate discussed with any rationality. Javid obviously stops short of giving an opinion, which of course leaves it open to interpretation but as already mentioned, the inability to discuss social changes in any nuanced way without the endless vomit-inducing celebration of diversity and 'cultural enrichment' as though it can only be unilaterally positive, gives oxygen and space for someone like Farage to exist. Like Stutty says, Javid would have been better not giving Farage the time of day. It will only reaffirm to some that they are a party not to be taken seriously on immigration and for Farage - all of a sudden a right-leaning political party opposed to mass immigration has found another calling. |
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Post by davycrockett on Dec 1, 2022 15:57:25 GMT 1
Having read it now (you only have to read the reply’s to see Farage’s audience) it’s a question not a statement and it’s on social media not in a debating chamber.
So what? Means so what’s problem with that….expecting a reply from Farage.
So what! is a dismissive statement……
Probably best to keep away from social media but maybe he’s just trying to be trendy like Boris and Trump 😩
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Post by ssshrew on Dec 1, 2022 16:15:28 GMT 1
And look where that got them!
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Post by block12massive on Dec 1, 2022 16:54:39 GMT 1
Having read it now (you only have to read the reply’s to see Farage’s audience) it’s a question not a statement and it’s on social media not in a debating chamber. So what? Means so what’s problem with that….expecting a reply from Farage. So what! is a dismissive statement…… Probably best to keep away from social media but maybe he’s just trying to be trendy like Boris and Trump 😩 'So what' 'Swarm' The pronounciation of Jeffery Epstein by a former Labour leader. It's funny how things that seemingly sound or read so innocuously can either be totally ignored or jumped on in the latest media storm depending on your political take. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2022 20:11:38 GMT 1
The concerns are poorly articulated though. I agree with this but then neither are the benefits of a growing population, demographic changes and - inevitably - the immigration debate discussed with any rationality. Javid obviously stops short of giving an opinion, which of course leaves it open to interpretation but as already mentioned, the inability to discuss social changes in any nuanced way without the endless vomit-inducing celebration of diversity and 'cultural enrichment' as though it can only be unilaterally positive, gives oxygen and space for someone like Farage to exist. Like Stutty says, Javid would have been better not giving Farage the time of day. It will only reaffirm to some that they are a party not to be taken seriously on immigration and for Farage - all of a sudden a right-leaning political party opposed to mass immigration has found another calling. On the growing population point it's worth considering that currently there are 4 working people to every pensioner in the UK, by 2050 it is forecast to drop to 2 to 1. Perhaps stopping immigration of predominantly young, white, Christian people from the continent wasn't such a great idea, but what do I know?
I have to agree with Javid's point, but making it on such a public medium as Twitter is only going to give more oxygen to the biggest oxygen thief in the country.
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Post by staffordshrew on Dec 1, 2022 21:25:30 GMT 1
Surely nobody still takes any notice of Farage?
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Post by block12massive on Dec 2, 2022 12:54:07 GMT 1
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Post by sheltonsalopian on Dec 2, 2022 13:02:39 GMT 1
As always it isn't black and white but shades of grey. It's clear our economy is built on immigration and I have no doubt immigration in itself provides a net plus to the economy rather than a net negative.
But there are valid concerns about the speed of the change, and I don't think the results of the census are going to calm anyone who has it as their top concern.
Does baffle me though that people essentially voted to replace European immigration (who are culturally like us) with immigration from further afield.
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Post by staffordshrew on Dec 2, 2022 14:26:11 GMT 1
Now maybe we know why he's a "so what", he's not standing next time.
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