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Post by Pilch on Nov 25, 2021 13:55:04 GMT 1
How does any of that have a bearing on STFC this season. I'm not bothered about past seasons, they don't effect our current plight. And I'm certainly not bothered about other clubs. And just for clarity, how would you rate the squads that those players mentioned were playing in?? Stronger than the current one?? Weaker?? Balanced?? Imbalanced?? Short on options?? Plenty to choose from?? You can't just disregard a counter argument because it's not stfc this season. You seem to be against having players play in different positions. So the alternative would be to have 22 first team ready players at least in the squad which would be too expensive and plain stupidity. A squad of 22 with cover for every position That would indeed be plain stupidity Actually , wait , isn’t that what all clubs aim to do at the bare minimum ?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2021 14:02:33 GMT 1
There's a difference between having a player who can play in a variety of positions to playing someone in a position because we have no other options. Yes you can say we are unfortunate with injuries/suspensions but there in denying that there is a shortage of cover in key positions, I'd also argue that we are missing quality in some positions when compared to last season, notably the losses of Norburn & Chapman
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Post by Pilch on Nov 25, 2021 14:15:12 GMT 1
There's a difference between having a player who can play in a variety of positions to playing someone in a position because we have no other options. Yes you can say we are unfortunate with injuries/suspensions but there in denying that there is a shortage of cover in key positions, I'd also argue that we are missing quality in some positions when compared to last season, notably the losses of Norburn & Chapman We’ve had nowhere near as many injuries as by this time last season either
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Post by venceremos on Nov 25, 2021 14:31:20 GMT 1
It was makeshift because we had five players missing out of an already small squad. That meant we had to use some players in unfamiliar positions (Pyke & Udoh). I'm not questioning that. I do dispute the rigid insistence that every player has one "natural" position and any player is out of position if they're ever used in a different way. Leahy has proved himself to be a more than capable midfielder, Nurse and Ogbeta weren't only considered tp be left backs when they were signed. Was Jermaine Grandison out of position when he played as a right back or was he in the wrong position as a centre back? How about Mat Sadler? Were Norwich and Everton wrong to play Ben Godfrey as a centre back when we used him as a midfielder, or did we play him out of position all season? Do you know that Cotterill didn't see Leahy as a midfielder? Not unlikely, given his goal scoring record. How does any of that have a bearing on STFC this season. The principle is the same.
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Post by venceremos on Nov 25, 2021 14:33:47 GMT 1
You can't just disregard a counter argument because it's not stfc this season. You seem to be against having players play in different positions. So the alternative would be to have 22 first team ready players at least in the squad which would be too expensive and plain stupidity. A squad of 22 with cover for every position That would indeed be plain stupidity Actually , wait , isn’t that what all clubs aim to do at the bare minimum ? At this level I don't think they do in the post-Covid financial climate.
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Post by venceremos on Nov 25, 2021 14:38:39 GMT 1
There's a difference between having a player who can play in a variety of positions to playing someone in a position because we have no other options. Yes you can say we are unfortunate with injuries/suspensions but there in denying that there is a shortage of cover in key positions, I'd also argue that we are missing quality in some positions when compared to last season, notably the losses of Norburn & Chapman That's not in serious dispute, although I'd argue Chapman's was more of an occasional brilliance than a sustained injection of quality. If you take playing Pyke at right wing back on Tuesday, for example, we have Bennett, Daniels, Whalley and Pennington who would probably play there ahead of him. Three of those were unavailable and Pennington was needed at centre back because we had two missing there as well. That's the sort of thing that happens sometimes in any season. I don't think it would have justified, say, keeping Ryan Sears hanging around because 4 people might one night not be enough to cover the right back slot.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2021 14:41:10 GMT 1
You are stretching the argument a bit. Football is football, defending is defending. If SC thinks a player has the attributes to play in a position then so be it. It turned out it works with them players playing in another role. I remember a certain Mat Sadler being a left back originally and then become a great CB (at this level). There is also many more examples of players moving positions and them being as if not more effective. I am no pro footballer but I do not believe there would be much difference in playing full back or CB in terms of ability. Players are asked to play different roles in the same position all the time which imo is just as much of a challenge. Vela for example has player every midfield role imaginable this season. Like I said football is football. If you can track and tackle you should be able to play defence, if you can dribble, pass and shoot you should be an attacker/winger. Just because a player has a position they prefer (or a position that a previous manager chose for them) does not mean they will become less skillful in another position. I would even go as far as to say that Leahy is more effective at CM, Ogbeta is definitely more effective in an advanced role and Nurse is as good a CB as he is a LB. Imo the same can be said for Bennett who has impressed me more when he has played in CM rather than his preferred position of RB. Those of us who are slightly older will remember centre back Alf Wood being moved to centre forward with great success and Dean Spink going in the opposite direction to become an accomplished central defender. Gary Stevens as well.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Nov 25, 2021 14:58:14 GMT 1
These chaps get paid for playing because they are very good at football. They will have been coached and playing at a good standard since they were children and will have a range of skills that are applicable in various situations.
They tend to specialise in a role once they turn pro, but I’m rarely surprised when they turn out to be competent in more than one position.
Incidentally, what a good story it would be if Pyke’s career is saved by the accidental discovery that he’s a decent wing back.
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Post by champagneprince on Nov 25, 2021 15:35:43 GMT 1
These chaps get paid for playing because they are very good at football. They will have been coached and playing at a good standard since they were children and will have a range of skills that are applicable in various situations. They tend to specialise in a role once they turn pro, but I’m rarely surprised when they turn out to be competent in more than one position. Incidentally, what a good story it would be if Pyke’s career is saved by the accidental discovery that he’s a decent wing back. Yep, but everything is relative to the opposition. If you have eleven players playing in their preferred 'best' position where they have plenty of match experience then they surely have an advantage over a team where half of the side are playing in a position that they are still getting used to. But yeah, good sportsmen are good sportsmen and can adapt for sure. But the other side still holds the advantage.
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Post by Pilch on Nov 25, 2021 15:47:51 GMT 1
A squad of 22 with cover for every position That would indeed be plain stupidity Actually , wait , isn’t that what all clubs aim to do at the bare minimum ? At this level I don't think they do in the post-Covid financial climate. Did I see you on the prom at Blackpool , in the north pier filling in for Barry chuckle
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Nov 25, 2021 15:54:11 GMT 1
2 players in every position, don’t know if anyone checked but we have 2 right wing backs in the squad. Can’t be helped they both missed the same match.
We’re criminally short in central midfield which is the main problem.
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Post by venceremos on Nov 25, 2021 16:21:30 GMT 1
At this level I don't think they do in the post-Covid financial climate. Did I see you on the prom at Blackpool , in the north pier filling in for Barry chuckle You ok?
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Post by pughywasfree on Nov 25, 2021 16:48:07 GMT 1
You can't just disregard a counter argument because it's not stfc this season. You seem to be against having players play in different positions. So the alternative would be to have 22 first team ready players at least in the squad which would be too expensive and plain stupidity. A squad of 22 with cover for every position That would indeed be plain stupidity Actually , wait , isn’t that what all clubs aim to do at the bare minimum ? "22 first team ready players" No, most clubs don't have 22 of them. If we had 22 league one standard players we would either be spending beyond our means or the standard of player would be very low. we have a decent enough starting 11, its cover and players to bring on from the bench that is our issue.
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Post by Pilch on Nov 25, 2021 17:11:28 GMT 1
A squad of 22 with cover for every position That would indeed be plain stupidity Actually , wait , isn’t that what all clubs aim to do at the bare minimum ? "22 first team ready players" No, most clubs don't have 22 of them. If we had 22 league one standard players we would either be spending beyond our means or the standard of player would be very low. we have a decent enough starting 11, its cover and players to bring on from the bench that is our issue. If we use your argument we have about 6 such players
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Post by Mortgagehound on Nov 26, 2021 14:56:15 GMT 1
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Post by Pilch on Nov 26, 2021 15:08:42 GMT 1
Maybe something to do with us being sat in a relegation spot
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Nov 26, 2021 16:01:01 GMT 1
Big club (well there were once upon a time). Now level 3 for several years and cant do much to change that.
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Post by AlisonS on Nov 26, 2021 17:07:31 GMT 1
These chaps get paid for playing because they are very good at football. They will have been coached and playing at a good standard since they were children and will have a range of skills that are applicable in various situations. They tend to specialise in a role once they turn pro, but I’m rarely surprised when they turn out to be competent in more than one position. Incidentally, what a good story it would be if Pyke’s career is saved by the accidental discovery that he’s a decent wing back. Spot on! I just want to see players giving their all for their teammates, manager and fans, wherever they are asked to play. It wasn’t happening at the start of the season, but appears to have changed for the better in recent weeks.
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