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Post by servernaside on Mar 3, 2021 20:00:32 GMT 1
Glad to see the government are supporting a bid by the UK & Ireland to host the 2030 World Cup. Five different FA's, four of whom couldn't realistically stage this event on their own and some excellent stadia already in existence throughout the British Isles.
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Post by Pilch on Mar 3, 2021 20:25:25 GMT 1
Neil did you watch the budget ?, its hard to tell, I mean your opinion would have been the same either way, I never bothered, I'll catch the gist on tens at 10 You didn’t watch the budget but watched the leader of the oppositions response? It’s like turning up at a cinema just to watch the credits whatever I was watching ended and I caught the moment starmer stood up , watched a few minutes of what was a performance that probably lost him respect off many swing voters, as I said he resembled a thespian doing a casting for the lead role in a musical
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Post by northwestman on Mar 3, 2021 20:45:33 GMT 1
The freezing of tax allowances for 5 years is a clever ploy. Put a penny on income tax and it wouldn't be popular. Do it this way, and the tax increase slowly kicks in (especially if inflation takes off), and brings over a million who weren't formerly paying any tax into the tax system, whilst also pushing others into the higher tax band.
And once Rishi achieves his goal and becomes our next PM, then kiss goodbye to the freezing of tax on fuel and the Triple Lock for Pensioners, both of which he allegedly wanted to hit but was overruled by Boris.
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Post by frankwellshrews on Mar 3, 2021 21:02:37 GMT 1
...AKA Mr Sunak bids to become Prime Minister. We knew most of it beforehand, as always. just like football existed before the premiership its been going on for centuries, is this year any different ? In this instance, it is kind of different. There used to be a period of "purdah" before the budget, since about 2012 though it all basically gets leaked beforehand (so the tories can road test the headline policies) so it is still fairly unusual to have the level of pre budget coverage it got this year, plus Rishi's little video.
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Post by staffordshrew on Mar 3, 2021 21:04:05 GMT 1
The freezing of tax allowances for 5 years is a clever ploy. Put a penny on income tax and it wouldn't be popular. Do it this way, and the tax increase slowly kicks in (especially if inflation takes off), and brings over a million who weren't formerly paying any tax into the tax system, whilst also pushing others into the higher tax band. And once Rishi achieves his goal and becomes our next PM, then kiss goodbye to the freezing of tax on fuel and the Triple Lock for Pensioners, both of which he allegedly wanted to hit but was overruled by Boris. Pensioner vote is big. I expect promises will be required of any party on the doorsteps wanting votes before the next election. Fuel tax on cars, not so big, a reasonable proportion will be poottling about in their electric milk floats by then.
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Post by frankwellshrews on Mar 3, 2021 21:07:21 GMT 1
The freezing of tax allowances for 5 years is a clever ploy. Put a penny on income tax and it wouldn't be popular. Do it this way, and the tax increase slowly kicks in (especially if inflation takes off), and brings over a million who weren't formerly paying any tax into the tax system, whilst also pushing others into the higher tax band. And once Rishi achieves his goal and becomes our next PM, then kiss goodbye to the freezing of tax on fuel and the Triple Lock for Pensioners, both of which he allegedly wanted to hit but was overruled by Boris. The triple lock is surely on borrowed time. Good for Rishi if he does hit it, no complaints from me (and probably everyone else under the age of 40). As for the overall budget, I'd love to know where they came up with some of these grant values. Im badly supportive of economic stimuli but the way they're doing it does just reek of blunt object, throw money at the problem and ask questions later. Doubtlesdly they'll be the usual round of fraud with it, as with the furlough and bounce back schemes, because we will do zero checks "to speed up the process".. Amazing how the tory, small state, fiscal hawk, business community are cheerleading for record levels of state borrowing now when it's them with upturned palms.
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Post by northwestman on Mar 3, 2021 21:19:30 GMT 1
The freezing of tax allowances for 5 years is a clever ploy. Put a penny on income tax and it wouldn't be popular. Do it this way, and the tax increase slowly kicks in (especially if inflation takes off), and brings over a million who weren't formerly paying any tax into the tax system, whilst also pushing others into the higher tax band. And once Rishi achieves his goal and becomes our next PM, then kiss goodbye to the freezing of tax on fuel and the Triple Lock for Pensioners, both of which he allegedly wanted to hit but was overruled by Boris. The triple lock is surely on borrowed time. Good for Rishi if he does hit it, no complaints from me (and probably everyone else under the age of 40). As for the overall budget, I'd love to know where they came up with some of these grant values. Im badly supportive of economic stimuli but the way they're doing it does just reek of blunt object, throw money at the problem and ask questions later. Doubtlesdly they'll be the usual round of fraud with it, as with the furlough and bounce back schemes, because we will do zero checks "to speed up the process".. Amazing how the tory, small state, fiscal hawk, business community are cheerleading for record levels of state borrowing now when it's them with upturned palms. Yes. As soon as I saw that these grants/loans are to be set up, the issue of fraud came into my thoughts. Same applies to upping the contactless card limit to £100. They've already lost billions to fraudsters by 'speeding up the process' of grants/loans to businesses. This no doubt is likely to continue.
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Post by Pilch on Mar 3, 2021 21:51:12 GMT 1
just like football existed before the premiership its been going on for centuries, is this year any different ? In this instance, it is kind of different. There used to be a period of "purdah" before the budget, since about 2012 though it all basically gets leaked beforehand (so the tories can road test the headline policies) so it is still fairly unusual to have the level of pre budget coverage it got this year, plus Rishi's little video. what would Alan sugar say if someone didnt road test an idea before announcing it ?
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Post by Stowmarket Shrew on Mar 3, 2021 22:16:46 GMT 1
I have never, nor will I ever vote Tory, but Sunak's done a good job here. Freezing income tax thresholds and going after profitable business is a fine way to pay back some of the borrowed money we've all benefitted from. If I have to pay my fair share then good.
As for Starmer - what a tool. Luckily I don't vote Labour either cos he's a total bellend with his faux dramatics, his stilted, awkward and cringeworthy scripted response, which I think flies on the face of what most of the country are feeling right now, which is that Sunak has got the balance right here.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2021 22:22:51 GMT 1
Labour are f00ked. They are in a worse state now than they were under Corbyn.
I feel sorry for all the grassroots activists.
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Post by martinshrew on Mar 3, 2021 22:38:32 GMT 1
I have never, nor will I ever vote Tory, but Sunak's done a good job here. Freezing income tax thresholds and going after profitable business is a fine way to pay back some of the borrowed money we've all benefitted from. If I have to pay my fair share then good. As for Starmer - what a tool. Luckily I don't vote Labour either cos he's a total bellend with his faux dramatics, his stilted, awkward and cringeworthy scripted response, which I think flies on the face of what most of the country are feeling right now, which is that Sunak has got the balance right here. Really good post.
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Mar 3, 2021 22:47:25 GMT 1
The headlines from the budget all seem like sensible moves that the majority will get behind, however as everyone says the devil is in the detail.
Wasn’t it just completely out of character by Starmer though? The sort of grandstand nonsense that Johnson could get away with, but it was cringeworthy. In amongst it all he did raise a few valid points mind.
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Post by neilsalop on Mar 4, 2021 7:27:33 GMT 1
Everyone seems concerned about how we pay down the national debt. Does anyone know who this money is actually owed to?
The interest rates are currently at historic lows all over the planet and are likely to stay low for a good few years. We own the Bank of England and can therefore print our own money, we can and have done it before and used the money to buy government bonds which in turn are used to pay down the national debt.
I'm no economist, but if all this money is owed to other countries, how come even economies such as Japan, the USA, Canada and France have a higher debt to GDP ratio than we do? Even Saudi Arabia and China have a national debt, so just who is holding all the IOUs.
In answer to an earlier question, no, I didn't watch the budget, as I was at work. There are a few concerns:
Why wait until 2023 to increase the corporation tax? There have been multiple companies making huge profits on the back of the pandemic this year and they will still be paying 19% on those excess profits, whereas in 2 years time they will be back to making their regular profit margins, so won't actually end up paying all that much more than they do currently. The tax on alcohol, tobacco and fuel usually go up the very night of the budget, granted fuel and alcohol haven't gone up this year, but why give the biggest winners off Covid a two year grace period?
If nurses, healthcare workers, etc were such valuable members of society over the last 12 months, why are they not getting the pay rise they deserve? All those claps ain't going to pay the bills. Anyone going into nursing now has to take on a debt of £50k+ before they even start a job paying £22k a year. Is that all we, as country think that they're worth? Even if after 6 or 7 years experience it might rise to £28 or £30k, at that rate they will never be able to pay that debt down. Without the bursary we will see fewer people taking on the profession. Also worth noting that as many as a third of newly qualified nurses leave the profession within the first five years. The stress, the constant need to refresh the training, the hours and numerous other things are draining them physically and emotionally and then to get zero recognition in their pay packets is one kick in the teeth too many for a lot of nurses.
There are no doubt plenty more things I could find to criticise if I had the time, but I need to get to work soon.
To be fair their were some good things in the budget and for a Tory budget it was reasonably decent on the surface, but as someone else pointed out, the devil is in the detail. Let's see what the Autumn Statement brings.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Mar 4, 2021 8:37:10 GMT 1
Starmer's performance was pretty cringeworthy. That clearly is not him and he ought to avoid such things in the future as its not going to do him any favours. It was kinda embarrassing. And with reports of dissent in the ranks (I guess I mean more than the usual), his approval rating taking a dive he really could have done without that. Time will tell how this all pans out towards getting the UK back up on its feet but once again I thought Sunak looked the part.
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Post by Chief Inspector Swan on Mar 4, 2021 9:15:46 GMT 1
I'm no economist, but if all this money is owed to other countries, how come even economies such as Japan, the USA, Canada and France have a higher debt to GDP ratio than we do. Clearly. Only about a quarter of government debt is held by overseas investors. The majority of those who purchase UK government debt are institutional investors, such as pension funds and insurance companies and the Bank of England / other banks. There’s not much where you’d say “This money is owed to Bangladesh” or whatever.
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Post by neilsalop on Mar 4, 2021 9:31:47 GMT 1
I'm no economist, but if all this money is owed to other countries, how come even economies such as Japan, the USA, Canada and France have a higher debt to GDP ratio than we do. Clearly. Only about a quarter of government debt is held by overseas investors. The majority of those who purchase UK government debt are institutional investors, such as pension funds and insurance companies and the Bank of England / other banks. There’s not much where you’d say “This money is owed to Bangladesh” or whatever. Therefore we as the owners of the Bank of England could feasibly create new money through quantitative easing to pay down the debt, just as we did in 1998 during the financial crisis. I understand that creating too much money in one go would cause inflation to rise, but gradually over the next few years wouldn't be too big an issue.
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Post by staffordshrew on Mar 4, 2021 10:07:27 GMT 1
Our national debt is not too much of an issue, as you say. Problems could occur if we keep wanting to borrow - not only does inflation go up, but also interest rates. It isn't the simple balancing your books analogy - that's why a pandemic hit world could all borrow at the same time. We have effectively borrowed off ourselves by printing more money. Looking back at the budget, we seem to have slipped back to a Tory budget of the last ten years, rather than the end of austerity Boris ushered in. You have a lot of people on Universal Credit, many more probably joining them at the end of furloigh - the same time as you take away the extra £20 - you cannot just take away £20 pounds extra from people who do not have much money on UC! The only way you should be reducing UC is by scaling it down - not increasing with inflation for a while.
Then there are tax allowances - by freezing them from next year you knock the very people who lose their jobs after furloigh and are just getting back into new, probably low paid, jobs - people just trying to get back on their feet after a rough econmic time. Missing from the budget: Will there be separate announcements about how the NHS is going to be put back in shape to be able to cope in case of pandemic and to catch up with delayed operations? Will there be separate announcements about the "green economy"? Will there be separate announcements to level the playing field berween online shops and physical shops to give the High Street a chance? Will there be an all party group set up to work out how social care will work more closely with health care?
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Post by Pilch on Mar 4, 2021 11:55:02 GMT 1
Clearly. Only about a quarter of government debt is held by overseas investors. The majority of those who purchase UK government debt are institutional investors, such as pension funds and insurance companies and the Bank of England / other banks. There’s not much where you’d say “This money is owed to Bangladesh” or whatever. Therefore we as the owners of the Bank of England could feasibly create new money through quantitative easing to pay down the debt, just as we did in 1998 during the financial crisis. I understand that creating too much money in one go would cause inflation to rise, but gradually over the next few years wouldn't be too big an issue. if it was that easy they would just have the budget a week before the election and announce if still in power we will all receive £1m each in brand new notes great news, until bread becomes 10 grand a loaf
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Post by northwestman on Mar 4, 2021 12:11:25 GMT 1
and the solution to the social care problem is?
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Post by staffordshrew on Mar 4, 2021 12:17:06 GMT 1
Therefore we as the owners of the Bank of England could feasibly create new money through quantitative easing to pay down the debt, just as we did in 1998 during the financial crisis. I understand that creating too much money in one go would cause inflation to rise, but gradually over the next few years wouldn't be too big an issue. if it was that easy they would just have the budget a week before the election and announce if still in power we will all receive £1m each in brand new notes great news, until bread becomes 10 grand a loaf It is that easy, but tempered by the pound going down to being worth about 10 cents, rampant inflation as you say, the cost of imports going through the roof and record interest rates.
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Post by staffordshrew on Mar 4, 2021 12:19:06 GMT 1
and the solution to the social care problem is? A new variant of Covid?
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Post by northwestman on Mar 4, 2021 12:22:33 GMT 1
and the solution to the social care problem is? A new variant of Covid? well yes, the last one wiped out a tenth of the care home residents.
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Post by neilsalop on Mar 4, 2021 12:33:22 GMT 1
well yes, the last one wiped out a tenth of the care home residents. And also reduced the amount paid out or due to be paid out in pensions. If I recall correctly wasn't there a newspaper article by a Tory MP claiming this to be a benefit of Covid.
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Post by lenny on Mar 4, 2021 13:44:01 GMT 1
As ever, the IFS is a good place to start for an objective summary in digestible english: ifs.org.uk/budget-2021?fbclid=IwAR1sI18sHxASSnc-HJwgiqa16QWsk_Mm_9IINKoutPDHHMOVUfpY76qXFYAI think on the whole it was reasonable - I'm sceptical about the benefits of low corporation tax in general, and would argue that most of the benefits flow through to the owners of the companies getting richer rather than increasing investment. I would, however, have liked to see more focus on making the UK a more dynamic place for companies to invest - a one-off tax break for investment in new machinery is one thing, but what we really need is more widespread technological innovation and moves towards a green economy which there is little to encourage here. These have been largely ignored and freezing fuel duty (and for that matter retaining the triple lock) continues to irk me as a daft piece of policy that's done for obvious reasons rather than to actually benefit the economy. I'm not too perturbed about the prospect of fraud. Ultimately it's better for government to risk spending too much to prevent a crisis than it is not doing enough - minimising unemployment and keeping sectors alive are critical. The current cost of debt isn't a problem; although over the medium-to-longer term it may well need to be reined in a little the time to worry about that is not now. Big infrastructure investment would have gone down well but was never going to happen - and ultimately slightly longer term plans are a bit daft at the moment when there is so much uncertainty still about the future path. What I am most interested to see is how the forthcoming consultations on taxation pan out - it's a slight surprise nothing happened yet. Dividends, CGT, pensions and IHT are all ripe for reform. Unquestionably they should be simplified - the bureaucracy could be cut, system made fairer and revenues increased if a really concerted effort was made on that. Again, though, I can't see anything happen to align CGT/Dividend income with regular income taxation, sadly, given the demographic it would hit.
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Post by venceremos on Mar 4, 2021 14:05:50 GMT 1
and the solution to the social care problem is? ... not for us to find, but we shouldn't be allowing our leaders to get away with having the same attitude.
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Post by Worthingshrew on Mar 4, 2021 14:22:47 GMT 1
and the solution to the social care problem is? ... not for us to find, but we shouldn't be allowing our leaders to get away with having the same attitude. Spot on. The Dilnot Report from over 10 years ago would be a good start. Oh, and Boris said he had a plan on the day he was elected Tory leader, and as we know he always tells the truth.
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Post by davycrockett on Mar 4, 2021 14:40:16 GMT 1
The freezing of tax allowances for 5 years is a clever ploy. Put a penny on income tax and it wouldn't be popular. Do it this way, and the tax increase slowly kicks in (especially if inflation takes off), and brings over a million who weren't formerly paying any tax into the tax system, whilst also pushing others into the higher tax band. It would also go against the party manifesto No Tax, National Insurance or VAT increases promised by Boris and Sajid freezing tax allowances is a sneaky way of increasing tax after promising not to .... The promise made by Sajid sort of tied one hand behind his back. Sajid Javid, chancellor, tweeted last night: “Proud to commit to a triple tax lock. Rates will not rise on these three big taxes under a majority Conservative government: income tax, national insurance and VAT.”
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Post by venceremos on Mar 4, 2021 14:47:08 GMT 1
The freezing of tax allowances for 5 years is a clever ploy. Put a penny on income tax and it wouldn't be popular. Do it this way, and the tax increase slowly kicks in (especially if inflation takes off), and brings over a million who weren't formerly paying any tax into the tax system, whilst also pushing others into the higher tax band. It would also go against the party manifesto No Tax, National Insurance or VAT increases promised by Boris and Sajid freezing tax allowances is a sneaky way of increasing tax after promising not to .... The promise made by Sajid sort of tied one hand behind his back. Sajid Javid, chancellor, tweeted last night: “Proud to commit to a triple tax lock. Rates will not rise on these three big taxes under a majority Conservative government: income tax, national insurance and VAT.”
Well said. It's political doublespeak - the tax rate might not rise, but the tax will because of fiscal drag. Disingenuous at best, dishonest in reality.
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Post by camdenshrew on Mar 4, 2021 14:49:25 GMT 1
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Post by frankwellshrews on Mar 4, 2021 14:50:24 GMT 1
The freezing of tax allowances for 5 years is a clever ploy. Put a penny on income tax and it wouldn't be popular. Do it this way, and the tax increase slowly kicks in (especially if inflation takes off), and brings over a million who weren't formerly paying any tax into the tax system, whilst also pushing others into the higher tax band. It would also go against the party manifesto No Tax, National Insurance or VAT increases promised by Boris and Sajid freezing tax allowances is a sneaky way of increasing tax after promising not to .... The promise made by Sajid sort of tied one hand behind his back. Sajid Javid, chancellor, tweeted last night: “Proud to commit to a triple tax lock. Rates will not rise on these three big taxes under a majority Conservative government: income tax, national insurance and VAT.”
But council tax will go up every year, as will council parking charges, hospital parking and all manner of other costs which tise as public services try to plug the hole in their finances. The tax free allowance freeze is more of the same sleight of hand; it's "shrinkflation".
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