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Post by venceremos on Mar 11, 2021 16:16:30 GMT 1
Im just asking for 1 racist article link, not claiming there aren’t any but I haven’t seen any and no ones produced one yet. As others have said, you're unlikely to find anything that's outright racist in the press because it would be illegal. Prejudice can be subtle though. It can, for example, reveal itself in that infamous comparison between the fawning over Kate in her pregnancy and the snide hostility to Meghan in hers. Now there might be racist undertones in that or there might not be. It might equally be snobbery or xenophobia, because Kate's an "English rose" and Meghan's foreign. It's rancid though, however you look at it. I wonder whether those who deny that racism is a factor in the hostility of the press and some members of the public towards Meghan believe there is no racism at all in the UK. Some seem quite desperate to believe that and have closed their minds to the possibility. Of course there's racism here. You only have to check into social media or that recent survey that revealed some horrifyingly large numbers of people still have overtly racist views. If there's racism in society, is it likely that there's somehow no racism in any UK institutions? The gutter press aren't exactly renowned for their moral rectitude. Isn't it just possible that some sections of it harbour racist attitudes? Perhaps even just the subconsciously racist attitudes that Naga Munchetty's documentary explored on Monday evening? I don't think we can say for certain whether racism has been a factor in the Meghan and Harry saga (although it will have been for a minority of members of the public) but, since it's been alleged by those on the receiving end, are we just to ignore the possibility that it might have been? The institution of monarchy and the tabloid press are the two institutions against whom this allegation resides. Perhaps they're entirely innocent, but wouldn't it be better for that to be demonstrated to be unarguably true, rather than just saying it is and ignoring the question entirely, so that the suspicion and resentment festers on?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2021 16:52:31 GMT 1
Problem is Nicko, you and Neil are salivating and getting all eaten up by wanting it to be about race, BS, but if you think that then crack on. The difference is, I am prepared to listen to the young people I mentor from the BAME community in how racism is received. I am also prepared to recognise that racism is propagated is different from when you and I were kids. If you actually read my posts on this thread I have asked questions and posted links. Why for example, were the baby bump pictures reported differently in the Mail? Just because she is not a very nice person doesn't cut it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2021 16:54:17 GMT 1
Im just asking for 1 racist article link, not claiming there aren’t any but I haven’t seen any and no ones produced one yet. Like I said, racism is propagated in a different way. Why report on MM differently to KM?
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 11, 2021 16:55:19 GMT 1
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9351033/Trevor-Phillips-says-Oprah-asked-Harry-Meghan-princes-past-behaviour.html"The Monarchy has been plunged into crisis following accusation of racism But a young Harry had caused a stir himself when, at just 20 years old, he dressed up for a party in a Nazi uniform, complete with swastika armband Charles Moore reveals writer and former politician Trevor Phillips contacted him 'A genuinely interesting question about race would have been to ask the couple whether they had discussed Harry's own past behaviour and remarks,' he said "
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Post by davycrockett on Mar 11, 2021 17:11:56 GMT 1
Im just asking for 1 racist article link, not claiming there aren’t any but I haven’t seen any and no ones produced one yet. As others have said, you're unlikely to find anything that's outright racist in the press because it would be illegal. Prejudice can be subtle though. It can, for example, reveal itself in that infamous comparison between the fawning over Kate in her pregnancy and the snide hostility to Meghan in hers. Now there might be racist undertones in that or there might not be. It might equally be snobbery or xenophobia, because Kate's an "English rose" and Meghan's foreign. It's rancid though, however you look at it. I wonder whether those who deny that racism is a factor in the hostility of the press and some members of the public towards Meghan believe there is no racism at all in the UK. Some seem quite desperate to believe that and have closed their minds to the possibility. Of course there's racism here. You only have to check into social media or that recent survey that revealed some horrifyingly large numbers of people still have overtly racist views. If there's racism in society, is it likely that there's somehow no racism in any UK institutions? The gutter press aren't exactly renowned for their moral rectitude. Isn't it just possible that some sections of it harbour racist attitudes? Perhaps even just the subconsciously racist attitudes that Naga Munchetty's documentary explored on Monday evening? I don't think we can say for certain whether racism has been a factor in the Meghan and Harry saga (although it will have been for a minority of members of the public) but, since it's been alleged by those on the receiving end, are we just to ignore the possibility that it might have been? The institution of monarchy and the tabloid press are the two institutions against whom this allegation resides. Perhaps they're entirely innocent, but wouldn't it be better for that to be demonstrated to be unarguably true, rather than just saying it is and ignoring the question entirely, so that the suspicion and resentment festers on? I’d agree she’s been treated differently to the wife of our future King who’s in turns been treated differently to all other royal brides (except Di) Snobbery, class, background, xenophobia and behaviour may all have led to the reporting style of the UK media BUT to Compare the headlines and come to the conclusion the media’s racist as stated by MM is touching on paranoia although both struggle with mental illness so possibly understandable but I’m no expert. The decision on how to ‘break the storey’ in my view hasn’t won them too many friends.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Mar 11, 2021 17:44:35 GMT 1
Problem is Nicko, you and Neil are salivating and getting all eaten up by wanting it to be about race, but where tabloids are, there is just not the evidence to back it up, different story about social media, but non there anywhere else. Plenty of evidence of her being not a very nice person, and all everyone else but me at fault, but not 1 shread on the basis of tabloids attacking her due to race. racisim can be subtle and does not always leap out of the page at you, just as a put down can be subtle but the person on the reciving end knows they have just been put down. for me i notice a more crtical press coverage after meghan and harry started making staments on the environment and the baby shower in the us. Its a difficult one. As that does comes across as extremely difficult to access. If there is no, for want of a better word, overt racism involved, how do then know whether racism has taken place? Do we just accept that if someone feels they have been a victim of racism, we must accept it (even if there is no evidence of racism)? So if they feel they have been the victim of racism, that is sufficient? And we know that there are plenty of people who think that way, that that is sufficient. But as I've mentioned here before, I'm a tad uncomfortable with that because I believe this involves and impacts us all. Look at this example, a very high profile incident in the USA around an incident at a college. Inside a Battle Over Race, Class and Power at Smith CollegeDespite what was claimed, despite the "sense of personal truth", do you think racism occurred in this incident? And within that, look what happened to those who got caught up in it? Being accused of racism can have devastating consequences, huge consequences. So then the question, is it really enough for someone to "feel" they were a victim of racism? Like I say difficult one.
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Post by martinshrew on Mar 11, 2021 17:53:18 GMT 1
The word "racist" has lost all real meaning now, it's banded around far, far too often for things that simply aren't racist. Maybe she's just a bit of a **** and for that reason people don't like her? Mind blowing concept but just a thought. Who decides what’s racist? The white man? The definition of the word. I don't buy all this "white man can't comment on racism" bulls**t. Racism isn't a one way street or a one race problem, anybody can be racially abused and anyone can comment on racism. I just think the word is overused to the point it distracts from helping the real cause of ending racism.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2021 18:00:54 GMT 1
Who decides what’s racist? The white man? The definition of the word. I don't buy all this "white man can't comment on racism" bulls**t. Racism isn't a one way street or a one race problem, anybody can be racially abused and anyone can comment on racism. I just think the word is overused to the point it distracts from helping the real cause of ending racism. Well of course not, you’re a white man which is kinda the point!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2021 18:26:09 GMT 1
Who decides what’s racist? The white man? The definition of the word. I don't buy all this "white man can't comment on racism" bulls**t. Racism isn't a one way street or a one race problem, anybody can be racially abused and anyone can comment on racism. I just think the word is overused to the point it distracts from helping the real cause of ending racism. It's a pretty wide definition. "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized." Like, I and others have said, racism manifests itself in many ways these days. I agree that white people can be victims of racism, but I wouldn't tell a person from another race if they've been a victim of racism or not.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 11, 2021 20:17:27 GMT 1
racisim can be subtle and does not always leap out of the page at you, just as a put down can be subtle but the person on the reciving end knows they have just been put down. for me i notice a more crtical press coverage after meghan and harry started making staments on the environment and the baby shower in the us. Its a difficult one. As that does comes across as extremely difficult to access. If there is no, for want of a better word, overt racism involved, how do then know whether racism has taken place? Do we just accept that if someone feels they have been a victim of racism, we must accept it (even if there is no evidence of racism)? So if they feel they have been the victim of racism, that is sufficient? And we know that there are plenty of people who think that way, that that is sufficient. But as I've mentioned here before, I'm a tad uncomfortable with that because I believe this involves and impacts us all. Look at this example, a very high profile incident in the USA around an incident at a college. Inside a Battle Over Race, Class and Power at Smith CollegeDespite what was claimed, despite the "sense of personal truth", do you think racism occurred in this incident? And within that, look what happened to those who got caught up in it? Being accused of racism can have devastating consequences, huge consequences. So then the question, is it really enough for someone to "feel" they were a victim of racism? Like I say difficult one. all very true and it is a minfield , the social media wichhunts conern me
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Post by armchairfan on Mar 11, 2021 20:30:11 GMT 1
Im just asking for 1 racist article link, not claiming there aren’t any but I haven’t seen any and no ones produced one yet. As others have said, you're unlikely to find anything that's outright racist in the press because it would be illegal. Prejudice can be subtle though. It can, for example, reveal itself in that infamous comparison between the fawning over Kate in her pregnancy and the snide hostility to Meghan in hers. Now there might be racist undertones in that or there might not be. It might equally be snobbery or xenophobia, because Kate's an "English rose" and Meghan's foreign. It's rancid though, however you look at it. I wonder whether those who deny that racism is a factor in the hostility of the press and some members of the public towards Meghan believe there is no racism at all in the UK. Some seem quite desperate to believe that and have closed their minds to the possibility. Of course there's racism here. You only have to check into social media or that recent survey that revealed some horrifyingly large numbers of people still have overtly racist views. If there's racism in society, is it likely that there's somehow no racism in any UK institutions? The gutter press aren't exactly renowned for their moral rectitude. Isn't it just possible that some sections of it harbour racist attitudes? Perhaps even just the subconsciously racist attitudes that Naga Munchetty's documentary explored on Monday evening? I don't think we can say for certain whether racism has been a factor in the Meghan and Harry saga (although it will have been for a minority of members of the public) but, since it's been alleged by those on the receiving end, are we just to ignore the possibility that it might have been? The institution of monarchy and the tabloid press are the two institutions against whom this allegation resides. Perhaps they're entirely innocent, but wouldn't it be better for that to be demonstrated to be unarguably true, rather than just saying it is and ignoring the question entirely, so that the suspicion and resentment festers on? Good grief! What you are effectively saying is that any denial of racism, whether it be by an individual, or a section of the media, is, in and of itself, evidence of racism. Presumably, you would deny that, or suggest that you had no intention of making such an implication, or that I have misunderstood.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Mar 11, 2021 20:57:02 GMT 1
Its a difficult one. As that does comes across as extremely difficult to access. If there is no, for want of a better word, overt racism involved, how do then know whether racism has taken place? Do we just accept that if someone feels they have been a victim of racism, we must accept it (even if there is no evidence of racism)? So if they feel they have been the victim of racism, that is sufficient? And we know that there are plenty of people who think that way, that that is sufficient. But as I've mentioned here before, I'm a tad uncomfortable with that because I believe this involves and impacts us all. Look at this example, a very high profile incident in the USA around an incident at a college. Inside a Battle Over Race, Class and Power at Smith CollegeDespite what was claimed, despite the "sense of personal truth", do you think racism occurred in this incident? And within that, look what happened to those who got caught up in it? Being accused of racism can have devastating consequences, huge consequences. So then the question, is it really enough for someone to "feel" they were a victim of racism? Like I say difficult one. all very true and it is a minfield , the social media wichhunts conern me Twitter really is something else. And you do have to remind yourself at times that thankfully Twitter is not representative of the wider public.
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Post by staffordshrew on Mar 11, 2021 21:40:25 GMT 1
Is it racist to be not too keen on the yanks. all yanks? They just aren't British, we don't understand them and their ways, they don't understand us and our ways. The United States and Great Britain, two countries separated by a common language.
God save the queen! (and the fascist regime).
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Post by armchairfan on Mar 11, 2021 21:56:14 GMT 1
Is it racist to be not too keen on the yanks. all yanks? They just aren't British, we don't understand them and their ways, they don't understand us and our ways. The United States and Great Britain, two countries separated by a common language. God save the queen! (and the fascist regime). Too clever by half..... Is the queen a Head of State of a fascist regime?
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Post by staffordshrew on Mar 11, 2021 22:01:48 GMT 1
Is it racist to be not too keen on the yanks. all yanks? They just aren't British, we don't understand them and their ways, they don't understand us and our ways. The United States and Great Britain, two countries separated by a common language. God save the queen! (and the fascist regime). Too clever by half..... Is the queen a Head of State of a fascist regime? Just meant to be an example of how the Brits, (this Brit anyway) respect the constituition, but are quite prepared to take the rise out of it, hence the brackets. That's a facet of the Brits I don't think the yanks would understand.
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Post by armchairfan on Mar 11, 2021 22:05:58 GMT 1
Too clever by half..... Is the queen a Head of State of a fascist regime? Just meant to be an example of how the Brits, (this Brit anyway) respect the constituition, but are quite prepared to take the rise out of it, hence the brackets. That's a facet of the Brits I don't think the yanks would understand. Gotcha - I agree that our American cousins don't quite grasp the concept of self-denigration👍👍
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Mar 11, 2021 22:19:54 GMT 1
Saw the news early with William and Kate having to deal with questions from the press asking them something along the lines of "are the royal family racist". I wonder if Harry and Meghan caught that, I wonder what they thought of it. Because if its neither William or Kate who they are accusing of racism, they're still having to deal with the fallout, with the accusations. Even if they have done absolutely nothing wrong, they are going to be asked again and again and again if they are racist.
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Post by armchairfan on Mar 11, 2021 22:22:29 GMT 1
Saw the news early with William and Kate having to deal with questions from the press asking them something along the lines of "are the royal family racist". I wonder if Harry and Meghan caught that, I wonder what they thought of it. Because if its neither William or Kate who they are accusing of racism, they're still having to deal with the fallout, with the accusations. Even if they have done absolutely nothing wrong, they are going to be asked again and again and again if they are racist. A bloody stupid question to ask anyway!
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Mar 12, 2021 9:00:46 GMT 1
Who decides what’s racist? The white man? I don't buy all this "white man can't comment on racism" bulls**t. And think about that, that would be people who are looking to dismiss and silence other people because of the group they belong to (their sex, their race etc.). And this is the so called equal society they seek. What equal society looks to dismiss and silence people because of whatever group they happen to belong to? Isn't that what we are supposed to be trying to move on from? And that they then call themselves "progressives". The mind boggles. Like I said before, we really have to do all we can to keep the modern left out of government (and I'm pretty sure what I mention here is very much playing a part in doing so).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2021 9:41:11 GMT 1
The difference is, I am prepared to listen to the young people I mentor from the BAME community in how racism is received. I am also prepared to recognise that racism is propagated is different from when you and I were kids. If you actually read my posts on this thread I have asked questions and posted links. Why for example, were the baby bump pictures reported differently in the Mail? Just because she is not a very nice person doesn't cut it. Being prepared to listen is one thing, but do you ever get into meaningful discussion, about weather it is actually racist, or just there perspective? I have been defriended by a friend, who is Jamaican, On Tuesday Morning, Sgt Beharry was on the news, where he categorically stated that his time in the Army, he has never felt he has been disadvantaged by his colour. The Friend , was on her facebook page slating him, and calling him a Milky Way. So i asked her why she felt that way, and pointed out that it was a term used by the black community to insult fellow black people. Her answer was that there is no way he could have been in the Army and not suffered from racism, and she defriended me as I was obviously as racist as the next white person. So if that is the attitude then we will never get away from accusations. Now i would bet my bottom dollar, the way you go on here about how s**te us white people are, and that we are all institutional bigots and racist, that you don't point out flaws in there own judgements. and indeed some factual evidence would also be helpful. Dianne Abbott is always going on about young black males (Males aged between 16 -25) being stopped and searched more than young white males. Ok, that may be a fact, but lets look at this in a wider issue, Young Black Males make up about 3% of the population of London, however i think the number is about 18%, but could be wrong (Can't find the Stats from Met Police website on statistics where i initially saw this) of all violent crimes committed in London are from that Young Black Male category. So rather than go on about the stop and search procedure of the Police, why not also tackle the Crime issue, or is that too hot to handle for Mrs Abbott. When I see Dawn Buttler take her phone out and state institutional racism when a police officer is trying to do his job, then all i thought was "what a knob" Yesterday was a shameful day for White Men in particular, It was international slate men day yesterday, apparently we should all be curfewed now from 18:00Hrs (Mind you that copper has not helped the cause) but you would think that we are all raving rapist, racist dominate species who cannot control our urges, but this is also in a week where everything has been highlighted by a meek, dominate female of colour...... Stop the world, i want to get off!!
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Post by tdk on Mar 12, 2021 10:11:52 GMT 1
Not sure what all the fuss is about? A family tiff over a (possibly imagined) slur and non acceptance of the new partner.
Happens in loads of families all the time.
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Post by staffordshrew on Mar 12, 2021 10:17:16 GMT 1
Does the media play it's part in dividing society, just for the sake of a good story? People of all races, creeds, sexs and colours are living and working together. That's what needs to be nurtured. But, for the sake of a story, journalists highlight the more outragious views. There is a problem with crime in some areas - young males, often black young males, are getting stabbed, so the police have to target the areas where the crime is. It was International women's day, so I suppose that was where the media focussed, but there are planty of crimes against males too. For example, I read about a young lad who was killed when visiting the gay village in Manchester, if gays can't feel safe in a gay village then there is bound to be more stop and search and police presence there. No doubt there will be complaints of police harassment, but problems like that need sorting. It did concern me when the original story of the poor lady in London came out. I don't know Clapham Common, but I might think twice myself about a 50 minute walk accross it at 9.30 at night when most people are inside in lockdown. We all have to be careful and we all have to expect a police force to protect us.
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Post by dachshund on Mar 12, 2021 10:24:36 GMT 1
The difference is, I am prepared to listen to the young people I mentor from the BAME community in how racism is received. I am also prepared to recognise that racism is propagated is different from when you and I were kids. If you actually read my posts on this thread I have asked questions and posted links. Why for example, were the baby bump pictures reported differently in the Mail? Just because she is not a very nice person doesn't cut it. Being prepared to listen is one thing, but do you ever get into meaningful discussion, about weather it is actually racist, or just there perspective? I have been defriended by a friend, who is Jamaican, On Tuesday Morning, Sgt Beharry was on the news, where he categorically stated that his time in the Army, he has never felt he has been disadvantaged by his colour. The Friend , was on her facebook page slating him, and calling him a Milky Way. So i asked her why she felt that way, and pointed out that it was a term used by the black community to insult fellow black people. Her answer was that there is no way he could have been in the Army and not suffered from racism, and she defriended me as I was obviously as racist as the next white person. So if that is the attitude then we will never get away from accusations. Now i would bet my bottom dollar, the way you go on here about how s**te us white people are, and that we are all institutional bigots and racist, that you don't point out flaws in there own judgements. and indeed some factual evidence would also be helpful. Dianne Abbott is always going on about young black males (Males aged between 16 -25) being stopped and searched more than young white males. Ok, that may be a fact, but lets look at this in a wider issue, Young Black Males make up about 3% of the population of London, however i think the number is about 18%, but could be wrong (Can't find the Stats from Met Police website on statistics where i initially saw this) of all violent crimes committed in London are from that Young Black Male category. So rather than go on about the stop and search procedure of the Police, why not also tackle the Crime issue, or is that too hot to handle for Mrs Abbott. When I see Dawn Buttler take her phone out and state institutional racism when a police officer is trying to do his job, then all i thought was "what a knob" Yesterday was a shameful day for White Men in particular, It was international slate men day yesterday, apparently we should all be curfewed now from 18:00Hrs (Mind you that copper has not helped the cause) but you would think that we are all raving rapist, racist dominate species who cannot control our urges, but this is also in a week where everything has been highlighted by a meek, dominate female of colour...... Stop the world, i want to get off!! Amazing what you’re willing to trivialise to push your boneheaded agenda. A woman died, snatched from a main road in the middle of a city, by a policeman. It’s rightly provoking a discussion around what needs to change, and your reaction is ‘mind you that copper has not helped the cause’ . Interesting to see again that you report that people are calling you prejudiced. You seem awfully unlucky when it comes to that.
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Post by dachshund on Mar 12, 2021 10:30:32 GMT 1
It did concern me when the original story of the poor lady in London came out. I don't know Clapham Common, but I might think twice myself about a 50 minute walk accross it at 9.30 at night when most people are inside in lockdown. We all have to be careful and we all have to expect a police force to protect us. I live between Clapham and Brixton and have done for 15 years. It’s an incredibly busy area, both in terms of traffic and footfall, and she was mostly walking down main roads, having let people know where she was and when to expect her. You wouldn’t really know it’s lockdown here - zone 1 is incredibly quiet but this area is full of joggers, dog walkers, people out for a walk, takeaways open for business.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2021 10:53:32 GMT 1
Amazing what you’re willing to trivialise to push your boneheaded agenda. A woman died, snatched from a main road in the middle of a city, by a policeman. It’s rightly provoking a discussion around what needs to change, and your reaction is ‘mind you that copper has not helped the cause’ . Interesting to see again that you report that people are calling you prejudiced. You seem awfully unlucky when it comes to that. Rather than discuss wider issue, focus on 1 bit of terminology, but can you please point out where i am saying about prejudice directed at me, i am talking about wider generalisations.
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Post by martinshrew on Mar 12, 2021 11:15:50 GMT 1
Are we taking a knee and protesting against the police for killing an innocent white British girl, or do we only do that for black American criminals?
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Post by dachshund on Mar 12, 2021 11:44:22 GMT 1
Amazing what you’re willing to trivialise to push your boneheaded agenda. A woman died, snatched from a main road in the middle of a city, by a policeman. It’s rightly provoking a discussion around what needs to change, and your reaction is ‘mind you that copper has not helped the cause’ . Interesting to see again that you report that people are calling you prejudiced. You seem awfully unlucky when it comes to that. Rather than discuss wider issue, focus on 1 bit of terminology, but can you please point out where i am saying about prejudice directed at me, i am talking about wider generalisations. You’re taking a tragedy unrelated to the topic at hand, and immediately making it about you and a ‘not all white men!!!’ agenda. Hope this helps
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Post by dachshund on Mar 12, 2021 11:45:28 GMT 1
Are we taking a knee and protesting against the police for killing an innocent white British girl, or do we only do that for black American criminals? For those asking for examples of overt racism, here is a nice clear-cut one
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Post by martinshrew on Mar 12, 2021 12:05:01 GMT 1
Are we taking a knee and protesting against the police for killing an innocent white British girl, or do we only do that for black American criminals? For those asking for examples of overt racism, here is a nice clear-cut one Care to explain?
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Post by staffordshrew on Mar 12, 2021 12:11:51 GMT 1
Are we taking a knee and protesting against the police for killing an innocent white British girl, or do we only do that for black American criminals? The innocent British white girl was not a victim of the police carrying out their duty. she was a victim of someone who, it seems, was an off duty policeman.
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