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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 6, 2020 13:59:45 GMT 1
Re testing figures. The boss had it down as a Key Performance Indicator, 100,000, then 200,000 tests per day. Like any KPI in any job, once the boss ain't bothered, nobodies bothered. The press don't ask questions either because they get bored easily and move on to the next headline.
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Post by LetchworthShrew on Jul 6, 2020 21:11:07 GMT 1
Study in Spain says only 5.2% of patients developed population has antibodies which scuppers herd immunity theory.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Jul 6, 2020 21:28:32 GMT 1
Study in Spain says only 5.2% of patients developed antibodies which scuppers herd immunity theory.
That says 5% of population not 5% of patients.
Maybe only 5% of people have them because only 5% got infected?
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Post by Pilch on Jul 7, 2020 1:38:01 GMT 1
I’m genuinely interested in two comments “The virus is airborne more than we realise” and “ not so sure its the heat associated with the warmer weather that helps lower the stats rather than the fact the wind/breeze is generally not so strong” If you could back these up with a little bit of evidence that would be lovely. Or is it perhaps just b******s? its called an opinion , instead of pretending you are far superior to us and just appearing twice a week to try an belittle exactly the same few people maybe put your own opinion forward or provide evidence to suggest I'm wrong, either that or shut up and go away, if you want to be pedantic then replace aerosol with airborne. its still in the air more than we are led to believe ( my opinion ) also my opinion that next few days due to the 'economy logistical problems with certain shops'. 1 meter distancing will suddenly become fine where are you today to question my airborne and atmosphere opinions ?
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Post by northwestman on Jul 7, 2020 9:10:20 GMT 1
'Speaking on Radio Four’s Today programme, Mark Adams, chief executive of charity Community Integrated Care, said he was “unbelievably disappointed” to hear the prime minister’s comments about the actions of care homes during the coronavirus crisis. He said:
I think this at best was clumsy and cowardly but to be honest with you, if this is genuinely his view, I think we’re almost entering an... alternative reality where the government set the rules, we follow them and they don’t like the results and they then deny setting the rules and blame the people that were trying to do their best. It is hugely frustrating.”
When asked to explain why he called Boris Johnson’s words “cowardly”, Adams added:
Because you’ve got 1.6 million social care workers who when most of us are locked away in our bunkers waiting out Covid, really trying to protect our family, we’ve got these brave people on minimum wage, often with no sickness cover at all, going into work to protect our parents, our grandparents, our children, putting their own health and potentially their own lives at risk.
And then to get the most senior man in the country turning round and blaming them on what has been an absolute travesty of leadership from the government, I just think it is appalling.”
He said the care sector had been “crying out” for weekly testing for months.
I think what we’re getting is history re-written in front of us, when you could list pages and pages of government failure which the system has had to cope with.
And to get a throwaway comment, almost glibly blaming the social care system and not holding your hand up for starting too late, doing the wrong things, making mistake after mistake, is just frankly unacceptable.”'
The Guardian.
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Post by northwestman on Jul 7, 2020 9:19:45 GMT 1
'Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past'.
George Orwell 1984.
Because the Party’s version of the past is what people believe, that past, though it has no basis in real events, has become the truth.
The Party believes it has the authority to rewrite history, because they control the present. Because the Party controls the memory of its citizens by controlling history, it also controls the present and the future.
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Post by northwestman on Jul 7, 2020 9:53:42 GMT 1
Adams said care homes had been let down on protective equipment, and “abandoned” when it came to testing.
“We’ve got a situation where the whole of the social care system has had to source 90% of its PPE since the beginning of the crisis, and that’s still the same,” he said.
“We didn’t test social care until the end of May. So us, like most social care operators, had our losses before we’d even started having any testing at all.
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Post by ssshrew on Jul 7, 2020 10:04:58 GMT 1
Of course they were let down. We have a PM who, as I’ve said before, has the attention span of a gnat. He couldn’t possible think of more than one aspect of the virus at once. Saving the NHS was the vote catching, populist mantra and anything else just went by the board. Keep on clapping on the steps of No. 10 and all will be well.
Blaming the care homes now is just another way of him thinking it will make him still look in control. He’s a fraud, a liar and not fit to govern.
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Post by northwestman on Jul 7, 2020 10:30:05 GMT 1
This is only the beginning. Expect PHE, NHS, DHSC, SAGE, Mark Sedwill and anyone else he can blame also to be in Johnson's (Cummings) sights.
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Post by venceremos on Jul 7, 2020 10:45:06 GMT 1
What's happening in this country is truly Orwellian - that quote is perfectly chosen, northwestman.
Surely it's clear to everyone that the government is attempting to rewrite the past, to avoid its responsibility? Don't let them - it's an insult to every one of the victims of Covid-19. You didn't like that moron p**sing on the memorial? That's exactly what our leaders are doing.
There have been plenty of Johnson/Cummings apologists on here throughout this disastrous period. I challenge any of them now to explain why Johnson is right and deserves our full support.
[Just to be clear, references to it being 'difficult', 'unprecedented' etc, and claims that 'they're doing their best' or better than you/Corbyn/Starmer/Uncle Tom Cobley could have done don't cut it.]
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 7, 2020 11:13:47 GMT 1
Either Bozo went off on his own moronic self on this one or Cummings is nowhere near as clever as he thinks he is. Blaming care homes, after all the hard work they have done without much help from the government just isn't going to wash with the public or the press.
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Post by ssshrew on Jul 7, 2020 11:16:39 GMT 1
The desire to be popular means that the idiot doesn’t engage his brain before he opens his mouth. He doesn’t cope with questions for which he hasn’t had sone one prepare the answers. The cricket fiasco is a prime example.
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Post by blood red shrews on Jul 7, 2020 11:45:54 GMT 1
Well they said they put a protective ring around care homes...so who are we to doubt that.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jul 7, 2020 12:38:55 GMT 1
'Speaking on Radio Four’s Today programme, Mark Adams, chief executive of charity Community Integrated Care, said he was “unbelievably disappointed” to hear the prime minister’s comments about the actions of care homes during the coronavirus crisis. He said: I think this at best was clumsy and cowardly but to be honest with you, if this is genuinely his view, I think we’re almost entering an... alternative reality where the government set the rules, we follow them and they don’t like the results and they then deny setting the rules and blame the people that were trying to do their best. It is hugely frustrating.” When asked to explain why he called Boris Johnson’s words “cowardly”, Adams added: Because you’ve got 1.6 million social care workers who when most of us are locked away in our bunkers waiting out Covid, really trying to protect our family, we’ve got these brave people on minimum wage, often with no sickness cover at all, going into work to protect our parents, our grandparents, our children, putting their own health and potentially their own lives at risk. And then to get the most senior man in the country turning round and blaming them on what has been an absolute travesty of leadership from the government, I just think it is appalling.” He said the care sector had been “crying out” for weekly testing for months. I think what we’re getting is history re-written in front of us, when you could list pages and pages of government failure which the system has had to cope with. And to get a throwaway comment, almost glibly blaming the social care system and not holding your hand up for starting too late, doing the wrong things, making mistake after mistake, is just frankly unacceptable.”' The Guardian. since so many people have the attention span of a nat and get bored easily, you can see how the goverment wont to rewrite history it also showes that Boris has no morals hardly a suprise. it is disgusting that he blames care homes and social care when the nhs placed people who were not tested in care homes and offered no testing and many care homes had no ppe, equally most care staff are on the minmum wages. the goverment are pond life and this is insulting the pond life
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jul 7, 2020 12:40:28 GMT 1
What's happening in this country is truly Orwellian - that quote is perfectly chosen, northwestman. Surely it's clear to everyone that the government is attempting to rewrite the past, to avoid its responsibility? Don't let them - it's an insult to every one of the victims of Covid-19. You didn't like that moron p**sing on the memorial? That's exactly what our leaders are doing. There have been plenty of Johnson/Cummings apologists on here throughout this disastrous period. I challenge any of them now to explain why Johnson is right and deserves our full support. [Just to be clear, references to it being 'difficult', 'unprecedented' etc, and claims that 'they're doing their best' or better than you/Corbyn/Starmer/Uncle Tom Cobley could have done don't cut it.] anyone but boris and this usless goverment
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jul 7, 2020 12:52:22 GMT 1
words fail me; whilst they refuse to reval critical information others continue to spread the virus.
"Residents in Melbourne are refusing to tell health officials who their close contacts are despite a huge surge in coronavirus cases. Those living in the west and north western suburbs have hampered contact tracing by not sharing information about where they have been and who their close contacts are. Some people have been told they could have coronavirus up to five days after they came into contact with a known case, the Herald Sun reported."
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Post by northwestman on Jul 7, 2020 14:02:31 GMT 1
I think that the psychology which Johnson and Cummings are attempting to apply in order to manipulate the general population comes under the term 'gaslighting'.
Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation in which a person or a group covertly sows seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or group, making them question their own memory, perception, or judgment, often evoking in them cognitive dissonance and other changes including low self-esteem. Using denial, misdirection, contradiction, and misinformation, gaslighting involves attempts to destabilize the victim and delegitimize the victim's beliefs.
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Post by LetchworthShrew on Jul 7, 2020 15:56:56 GMT 1
words fail me; whilst they refuse to reval critical information others continue to spread the virus. "Residents in Melbourne are refusing to tell health officials who their close contacts are despite a huge surge in coronavirus cases. Those living in the west and north western suburbs have hampered contact tracing by not sharing information about where they have been and who their close contacts are. Some people have been told they could have coronavirus up to five days after they came into contact with a known case, the Herald Sun reported." Melbourne is now in lockdown for another 6 weeks, 5m residents tols to stay at home!. The border between Victoria and both NSW and South Australia have been closed too. "Police and troops will be stationed at border crossings and patrol the vast borders with drones and other aircraft."
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2020 16:00:34 GMT 1
Does anyone think we’ll end up with a worldwide lockdown or continents being locked down?
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jul 7, 2020 18:08:19 GMT 1
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53316491"Prof Paul Edelstein from the University of Pennsylvania, who wrote the other report which examined the effectiveness of masks and other coverings, said the evidence that they protected other people was "clearer all the time", but there was also "some evidence" they protected the wearer." "In late April, only about 25% of people in the UK wore face coverings, compared to 83.4% in Italy" "There are people without symptoms going about their daily business who are unknowingly breathing out droplets that are carrying the virus," he said. "If they had their faces covered the majority of those droplets would be caught before they can infect other people. Wearing face coverings can help save lives and prevent disabling illnesses." "Prof Paul Edelstein from the University of Pennsylvania, who wrote the other report which examined the effectiveness of masks and other coverings, said the evidence that they protected other people was "clearer all the time", but there was also "some evidence" they protected the wearer. "There are people without symptoms going about their daily business who are unknowingly breathing out droplets that are carrying the virus," he said. "If they had their faces covered the majority of those droplets would be caught before they can infect other people. Wearing face coverings can help save lives and prevent disabling illnesses."
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Post by stfcfan87 on Jul 7, 2020 23:38:21 GMT 1
What's happening in this country is truly Orwellian - that quote is perfectly chosen, northwestman. Surely it's clear to everyone that the government is attempting to rewrite the past, to avoid its responsibility? Don't let them - it's an insult to every one of the victims of Covid-19. You didn't like that moron p**sing on the memorial? That's exactly what our leaders are doing. There have been plenty of Johnson/Cummings apologists on here throughout this disastrous period. I challenge any of them now to explain why Johnson is right and deserves our full support. [Just to be clear, references to it being 'difficult', 'unprecedented' etc, and claims that 'they're doing their best' or better than you/Corbyn/Starmer/Uncle Tom Cobley could have done don't cut it.] Funny enough none of the usual apologists have piped up yet.
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Post by shrewder on Jul 8, 2020 5:49:06 GMT 1
What's happening in this country is truly Orwellian - that quote is perfectly chosen, northwestman. Surely it's clear to everyone that the government is attempting to rewrite the past, to avoid its responsibility? Don't let them - it's an insult to every one of the victims of Covid-19. You didn't like that moron p**sing on the memorial? That's exactly what our leaders are doing. There have been plenty of Johnson/Cummings apologists on here throughout this disastrous period. I challenge any of them now to explain why Johnson is right and deserves our full support. [Just to be clear, references to it being 'difficult', 'unprecedented' etc, and claims that 'they're doing their best' or better than you/Corbyn/Starmer/Uncle Tom Cobley could have done don't cut it.] Exactly. This government has nobody to blame but themselves for this total disastrous handling of this crisis.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 7:33:02 GMT 1
What's happening in this country is truly Orwellian - that quote is perfectly chosen, northwestman. Surely it's clear to everyone that the government is attempting to rewrite the past, to avoid its responsibility? Don't let them - it's an insult to every one of the victims of Covid-19. You didn't like that moron p**sing on the memorial? That's exactly what our leaders are doing. There have been plenty of Johnson/Cummings apologists on here throughout this disastrous period. I challenge any of them now to explain why Johnson is right and deserves our full support. [Just to be clear, references to it being 'difficult', 'unprecedented' etc, and claims that 'they're doing their best' or better than you/Corbyn/Starmer/Uncle Tom Cobley could have done don't cut it.] This is exactly why the Government response to Covid-19 needed to be challenged at every step, on here and elsewhere. Well done those who did, particularly NWM.
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Post by sheltonsalopian on Jul 8, 2020 8:37:26 GMT 1
Does anyone think we’ll end up with a worldwide lockdown or continents being locked down? Personal opinion but if there's a second wave I can't see countries locking down again, think all the patience and good will has been used up on this first lockdown. The government are more likely to just keep carrying on so as to not risk even more economic damage imo
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Post by northwestman on Jul 8, 2020 10:15:36 GMT 1
Does anyone think we’ll end up with a worldwide lockdown or continents being locked down? Personal opinion but if there's a second wave I can't see countries locking down again, think all the patience and good will has been used up on this first lockdown. The government are more likely to just keep carrying on so as to not risk even more economic damage imo Yeah, local lockdowns with all the chaos that ensues seems to be the plan for the future.
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Post by northwestman on Jul 8, 2020 10:21:38 GMT 1
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Post by LetchworthShrew on Jul 8, 2020 10:22:07 GMT 1
Does anyone think we’ll end up with a worldwide lockdown or continents being locked down? Personal opinion but if there's a second wave I can't see countries locking down again, think all the patience and good will has been used up on this first lockdown. The government are more likely to just keep carrying on so as to not risk even more economic damage imo Protesters in Belgrade yesterday after the Serbian president announced lockdown measures would be reintroduced. Demonstrators gathered in front of the parliament and there were clashes with riot police who fired tear gas
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2020 10:28:50 GMT 1
its called an opinion , instead of pretending you are far superior to us and just appearing twice a week to try an belittle exactly the same few people maybe put your own opinion forward or provide evidence to suggest I'm wrong, either that or shut up and go away, if you want to be pedantic then replace aerosol with airborne. its still in the air more than we are led to believe ( my opinion ) also my opinion that next few days due to the 'economy logistical problems with certain shops'. 1 meter distancing will suddenly become fine where are you today to question my airborne and atmosphere opinions ? Coronavirus: Airborne transmission cannot be ruled out, WHO says www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-53329946Lets look at things like general influenza, Swine flu and Sars, of course things are spread in the 'air' the 1 meter rule is a way of getting the pubs to reopen, in which they have now closed 3 pubs with the Covid 19. Every sneeze or cough puts that into the air. influenza www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/influenza-might-spread-air-study-finds-n839166 - 2018 Swine Flu The H1N1 swine flu virus, like the seasonal flu virus, can become airborne if you cough or sneeze without covering your nose and mouth, sending germs into the air. The H1N1 swine flu virus is a human virus spread by people and not by pigs www.healthline.com/health/swine-fluSARS Is it likely that the SARS-CoV-2 virus spreads by air? Its predecessor, SARS-CoV-1, did spread in the air. This was reported in several studies and retrospectively explained the pathway of transmission in Hong Kong’s Prince of Wales Hospital (Li et al., 2005, Xiao et al., 2017;12., Yu et al., 2005), as well as in health care facilities in Toronto, Canada (Booth et al. 2005), and in aircraft (Olsen et al. 2003). These studies concluded that airborne transmission was the main transmission route in the indoor cases studied. Other examples of airborne transmission of viral infections include the spread of Norwalk-like virus between school children (Marks et al. 2003), and the transmission of influenza www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7151430/
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Post by northwestman on Jul 8, 2020 10:55:39 GMT 1
Is it too much to want to live in a country where the government doesn’t describe its own pandemic response as whack-a-mole? I mean, guys … Go to the fairground. No one wins whack-a-mole. Only people who’ve had 12 pints of scrumpy believe they can execute a precise and targeted approach to emerging outbreaks of mole. That’s how the circus folk have set it up: you’re never going to win the giant teddy, yes? You’re going to flame out below the threshold for a tiny teddy, shake your head, think about asking the carnival operator for your money back, have a look at him, think better of it, then make the same mistake all over again trying to shoot some ducks through a gun barrel with a 20-degree bend in it. Whack-a-mole? You might as well describe your contact tracing strategy as Find the Lady.
Speaking of which, no sooner have the pubs opened than the first few are forced to close again, after punters tested positive for coronavirus. A number of pubs are now beginning the process of contacting people who spent “Independence Day” with them. Please take a moment to enjoy the bathos. A few months ago, government ministers were honking daily that we were going to invent our own world-beating test and trace app, a state-of-the-art public health strategy that has now been delegated to the manager of the Fox and Hounds in Batley.
The Guardian.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Jul 8, 2020 11:11:18 GMT 1
I was astonished to hear a pub landlady saying she had to contact 90 people to advise them they needed to quarantine, what happened to the ‘world beating’ app.
Imagine telling your boss that you won’t be in work for a fortnight because your pub landlady has told you to isolate.
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