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Post by South Stand Salopian on Jun 8, 2020 18:28:36 GMT 1
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Post by northwestman on Jun 8, 2020 18:34:48 GMT 1
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Post by claphamshrew on Jun 8, 2020 18:55:23 GMT 1
Find me a nice very very quiet one in Cheshire and I'll join you  Barbridge Inn by the canal near Nantwich is one that comes to mind. Plenty of outdoor seating and you can watch the boats passing by. Tucked away off the main road so is missed by most. Regrettably I feel obliged to tell you that only this afternoon I stumbled across some posts about the Barbridge on mumsnet. |
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Post by Bob Rickerton on Jun 8, 2020 19:37:30 GMT 1
Couldn't agree more. Get that t**t removed as soon as possible. almost 2 decades, 1.5 million posts on here, including one or 2 specifically about Clive , one of which in 2004 asking where he had gone ( presumably for restoration ), literally one mention that he was a bit of a thief but today he's a t**t and you want him gone asap until someone builds a time machine lets concentrate on changing future history I haven't decided he's a t**t today, I've thought he was a w****r since I first heard about his actions many a year ago. There's quite a few opinions I've got that I haven't necessarily shared on a lower league team's football message board, weirdly. I don't think it reflects brilliantly on the town to have the image of a murdering plunderer on display is all. We can change the future history of the town by not endorsing one of the darkest figures in British history. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2020 19:45:58 GMT 1
Barbridge Inn by the canal near Nantwich is one that comes to mind. Plenty of outdoor seating and you can watch the boats passing by. Tucked away off the main road so is missed by most. Regrettably I feel obliged to tell you that only this afternoon I stumbled across some posts about the Barbridge on mumsnet. mumsnet...that's a new one on me |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2020 19:48:48 GMT 1
Find me a nice very very quiet one in Cheshire and I'll join you Barbridge Inn by the canal near Nantwich is one that comes to mind. Plenty of outdoor seating and you can watch the boats passing by. Tucked away off the main road so is missed by most. Good shout. Closer to home, the Shady Oak, also by the canal at Beeston/Tiverton has outdoor seating. |
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Post by tdk on Jun 8, 2020 20:55:43 GMT 1
Clive of India was pretty despicable by today's standards, but I don't agree with destroying statues. Right or wrong they are part of our history. I don't see a difference between destruction of statues and destruction of Palmyra by Isis because it did not fit their modern beliefs.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 8, 2020 21:12:11 GMT 1
Barbridge Inn by the canal near Nantwich is one that comes to mind. Plenty of outdoor seating and you can watch the boats passing by. Tucked away off the main road so is missed by most. Good shout. Closer to home, the Shady Oak, also by the canal at Beeston/Tiverton has outdoor seating. Yes, I've been to the Shady Oak. Another canal side pub off the beaten track. |
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Post by northwestman on Jun 8, 2020 21:15:49 GMT 1
Barbridge Inn by the canal near Nantwich is one that comes to mind. Plenty of outdoor seating and you can watch the boats passing by. Tucked away off the main road so is missed by most. Regrettably I feel obliged to tell you that only this afternoon I stumbled across some posts about the Barbridge on mumsnet. Oh no! Shady Oak at Tiverton it is then! |
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Post by Pilch on Jun 8, 2020 21:56:37 GMT 1
almost 2 decades, 1.5 million posts on here, including one or 2 specifically about Clive , one of which in 2004 asking where he had gone ( presumably for restoration ), literally one mention that he was a bit of a thief but today he's a t**t and you want him gone asap until someone builds a time machine lets concentrate on changing future history I haven't decided he's a t**t today, I've thought he was a w****r since I first heard about his actions many a year ago. There's quite a few opinions I've got that I haven't necessarily shared on a lower league team's football message board, weirdly. I don't think it reflects brilliantly on the town to have the image of a murdering plunderer on display is all. We can change the future history of the town by not endorsing one of the darkest figures in British history. didnt Darwin do the same with animals ? did your dad ever give you a clip around the ear ? do you think anything less of him for it now ? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2020 22:23:39 GMT 1
Clive of India was pretty despicable by today's standards, but I don't agree with destroying statues. Right or wrong they are part of our history. I don't see a difference between destruction of statues and destruction of Palmyra by Isis because it did not fit their modern beliefs. I think statues of questionable historical figures are fine as long as the unpleasant history around them is not ignored. That's the real problem. A good example being Churchill who let millions of Indians starve to death in Bengal in 1943. Among other unpleasant Imperialist actions. |
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Post by Bob Rickerton on Jun 8, 2020 22:45:37 GMT 1
I haven't decided he's a t**t today, I've thought he was a w****r since I first heard about his actions many a year ago. There's quite a few opinions I've got that I haven't necessarily shared on a lower league team's football message board, weirdly. I don't think it reflects brilliantly on the town to have the image of a murdering plunderer on display is all. We can change the future history of the town by not endorsing one of the darkest figures in British history. didnt Darwin do the same with animals ? did your dad ever give you a clip around the ear ? do you think anything less of him for it now ? I may be old, but I'm not old enough for my Dad to have colonised India, so it's not a great comparison. Would genuinely recommend you do some reading on him, he was a lot worse than you appear to be under the impression he was. |
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Post by martinshrew on Jun 8, 2020 23:07:55 GMT 1
Clive of India was pretty despicable by today's standards, but I don't agree with destroying statues. Right or wrong they are part of our history. I don't see a difference between destruction of statues and destruction of Palmyra by Isis because it did not fit their modern beliefs. I think statues of questionable historical figures are fine as long as the unpleasant history around them is not ignored. That's the real problem. A good example being Churchill who let millions of Indians starve to death in Bengal in 1943. Among other unpleasant Imperialist actions. The radical left just doesn't let up. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2020 23:08:53 GMT 1
This is good from Sunak. I don't agree with it all, but his response to the BLM protests puts Patel and Javid to shame.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2020 23:18:53 GMT 1
I think statues of questionable historical figures are fine as long as the unpleasant history around them is not ignored. That's the real problem. A good example being Churchill who let millions of Indians starve to death in Bengal in 1943. Among other unpleasant Imperialist actions. The radical left just doesn't let up. Quality input, well done. Of course, what you could do is meaningfully engage in the discussion and show me how Churchill didn't allow millions of Indians starve to death. And talking about being 'radical', it was you who advocated on here stringing up an elected politician. |
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Post by Pilch on Jun 9, 2020 0:23:44 GMT 1
didnt Darwin do the same with animals ? did your dad ever give you a clip around the ear ? do you think anything less of him for it now ? I may be old, but I'm not old enough for my Dad to have colonised India, so it's not a great comparison. Would genuinely recommend you do some reading on him, he was a lot worse than you appear to be under the impression he was. who was, your dad. ?  seriously though, different times, different laws, different expectations did he break any laws that we've only just found out, that to me would matter, bit like jimmy Saville how far do we go back ?, should we give Hercules a little shove into the river ?, bloody romans  we cant change history |
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 9, 2020 7:17:13 GMT 1
Clive of India was pretty despicable by today's standards, but I don't agree with destroying statues. Right or wrong they are part of our history. I don't see a difference between destruction of statues and destruction of Palmyra by Isis because it did not fit their modern beliefs. I think statues of questionable historical figures are fine as long as the unpleasant history around them is not ignored. That's the real problem. A good example being Churchill who let millions of Indians starve to death in Bengal in 1943. Among other unpleasant Imperialist actions. I think statues of questionable historical figures are fine as long as the unpleasant history around them is not ignored.however if they are that offensive then the simple thing to do is put them in a museum. i agree you have to have a balance and recognize there actions good and bad, unfortently so many protests get hijacked by rent a mob which is often the focus of the media rather than the issues that led to the protest. |
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 9, 2020 7:19:07 GMT 1
from the mail
when a pro tory paper starts turning on you then you have a problem
"Boris Johnson's Government has the lowest approval rating in the world over its handling of the coronavirus pandemic, damning new polling revealed today.
Britons rate the PM's oversight of a pandemic in which more than 40,000 people - grandparents, husbands, wives, sons and daughters - have died even lower than Americans rate Donald Trump, YouGov found.
That is despite the US death toll dwarfing even the UK's at more than 110,000.
Just 41 per cent of Britons say the government is handling the crisis well, with 56 per cent saying it is handling it badly to give a net score of -15, down from -6 the previous week."
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Post by northwestman on Jun 9, 2020 7:23:44 GMT 1
from the mail when a pro tory paper starts turning on you hten you have a problem "Boris Johnson's Government has the lowest approval rating in the world over its handling of the coronavirus pandemic, damning new polling revealed today. Britons rate the PM's oversight of a pandemic in which more than 40,000 people - grandparents, husbands, wives, sons and daughters - have died even lower than Americans rate Donald Trump, YouGov found. That is despite the US death toll dwarfing even the UK's at more than 110,000. Just 41 per cent of Britons say the government is handling the crisis well, with 56 per cent saying it is handling it badly to give a net score of -15, down from -6 the previous week." I believe we are joint bottom with Mexico. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8399799/Boris-Johnsons-government-worst-approval-rating-WORLD-handling-coronavirus.html |
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 9, 2020 8:00:53 GMT 1
from the shropshire star
sadly three more deaths
"All three were being cared for by Shrewsbury and Telford Hospital NHS Trust, which runs Royal Shrewsbury Hospital and Princess Royal Hospital in Telford, NHS England has confirmed.It means at least 299 people have now died with the virus in the county – 176 in Shropshire's hospitals and at least 123 people in the county's care homes.
At SaTH, 157 people have now died after contracting Covid-19."
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 9, 2020 8:08:25 GMT 1
Clive of India was pretty despicable by today's standards, but I don't agree with destroying statues. Right or wrong they are part of our history. I don't see a difference between destruction of statues and destruction of Palmyra by Isis because it did not fit their modern beliefs. if such statues are so offensive then just place them in a museum and avoid the kind of thng that happend in Bristol ,what should happen is that schools teach history properly and included any local figures to have a resoned discussion on the good and the bad things they may have done and equally put such actions in context of that era rather than knee jerk rections or rent a mob rule hijacking a protest. i was brought up in wales i was never taught any welsh history about welsh historical figuers like owen glyndwr or Llywelyn ap Gruffydd that last welsh prince, i learnt about them from my nan. |
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 9, 2020 8:35:32 GMT 1
the farce at airports continues an article in mail featured a swiss pasenger who was feeling unwell and was going to hospital via the tube ! you could not make it !
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Jun 9, 2020 9:40:00 GMT 1
My formal education was from the early 1950s to the mid ‘60s, during that time we were taught, more accurately indoctrinated, that the empire was a great institution and that men like Clive were heroes bringing civilisation to the savages. At the time most of the empire was intact. We had lost India and older brothers of school friends were conscripted soldiers fighting to cling on to pieces of empire like Kenya, Malaya and Cyprus. Nevertheless we were proud of what the country had done for these far off lands and felt that we were a power for good and couldn’t understand why they were so ungrateful.
I think these attitudes continue and are hard for my generation to shake off, they also continue as a sort of folk memory for many younger people and explain our attitude to foreigners generally.
It’s only in recent years reading modern histories that I have started to revise my opinions. On the subject of Clive in particular, read William Dalrymple’s history of the East India Company. Clive was a violent criminal and it’s morally wrong to celebrate him in the centre of town. Yes he’s part of our history and shouldn’t be forgotten, his statue should be in a museum where his life and actions are exposed for what they were.
It’s good to have statues of admirable people in our towns, the current crisis has shown how many of them there are in ordinary life. Let’s have a monument to the delivery drivers, bin men, posties, care home workers and NHS staff in place of Clive.
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Post by ssshrew on Jun 9, 2020 9:47:39 GMT 1
I see yet another decisive u turn by our government this morning regarding the return of primary school pupils. You honestly couldn’t make it up. They were told and told that it wasn’t practicable with social distancing right at the beginning but no anything to deflect from the DC fiasco they announced children would go back.
Now the penny has dropped and they think we have forgotten DC they can lay the blame for non return on Headteachers.
I am livid beyond words. How many more u turns will there be from this totally inadequate bunch.
They have at least proved they couldn’t run a kindergarten let alone a country and we have to trust them for the next four years - heaven help us because they won’t.
This morning I am beyond words.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 9, 2020 9:56:51 GMT 1
But how far does one go with this? There is perhaps an argument for pulling down statues of Nelson Mandela, who was once labelled a terrorist. I'd not subscribe to this, but if you want to select individuals for statue removal for something they were involved in, whilst airbrushing out the other things they did, then there wouldn't be too many statues left standing.
I think the Eric Morecambe statue should be safe enough though!
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Post by northwestman on Jun 9, 2020 10:12:17 GMT 1
I see yet another decisive u turn by our government this morning regarding the return of primary school pupils. You honestly couldn’t make it up. They were told and told that it wasn’t practicable with social distancing right at the beginning but no anything to deflect from the DC fiasco they announced children would go back. Now the penny has dropped and they think we have forgotten DC they can lay the blame for non return on Headteachers. I am livid beyond words. How many more u turns will there be from this totally inadequate bunch. They have at least proved they couldn’t run a kindergarten let alone a country and we have to trust them for the next four years - heaven help us because they won’t. This morning I am beyond words. Next U turn will obviously be Priti Patel's crazy quarantine plan (which I've heard was another Cummings idea). Even Patel is now trying to distance herself from it! 'Home Secretary Priti Patel insisted the Government's proposal to quarantine overseas visitors is 'not my plan'. I think we might therefore be able to conclude whose plan it was. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8399991/Oblivious-Swiss-tourist-says-ILL-prepares-busy-Tube.html |
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 9, 2020 10:16:23 GMT 1
My formal education was from the early 1950s to the mid ‘60s, during that time we were taught, more accurately indoctrinated, that the empire was a great institution and that men like Clive were heroes bringing civilisation to the savages. At the time most of the empire was intact. We had lost India and older brothers of school friends were conscripted soldiers fighting to cling on to pieces of empire like Kenya, Malaya and Cyprus. Nevertheless we were proud of what the country had done for these far off lands and felt that we were a power for good and couldn’t understand why they were so ungrateful. I think these attitudes continue and are hard for my generation to shake off, they also continue as a sort of folk memory for many younger people and explain our attitude to foreigners generally. It’s only in recent years reading modern histories that I have started to revise my opinions. On the subject of Clive in particular, read William Dalrymple’s history of the East India Company. Clive was a violent criminal and it’s morally wrong to celebrate him in the centre of town. Yes he’s part of our history and shouldn’t be forgotten, his statue should be in a museum where his life and actions are exposed for what they were. It’s good to have statues of admirable people in our towns, the current crisis has shown how many of them there are in ordinary life. Let’s have a monument to the delivery drivers, bin men, posties, care home workers and NHS staff in place of Clive. Says a lot about our education system, then anyway. An open enquiring mind is more important than believing everything, memororising stuff, sticking it down on the exam paper and getting a pat on the head. |
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Post by davycrockett on Jun 9, 2020 10:27:27 GMT 1
Just done a bit of research and yes perhaps we should put right this historic wrong and remove the statue. Problem is to put the wrong right we’d have to refund the £273 million he stole (£31 Billion now) to India Thoughts? |
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Post by ssshrew on Jun 9, 2020 10:37:03 GMT 1
I see yet another decisive u turn by our government this morning regarding the return of primary school pupils. You honestly couldn’t make it up. They were told and told that it wasn’t practicable with social distancing right at the beginning but no anything to deflect from the DC fiasco they announced children would go back. Now the penny has dropped and they think we have forgotten DC they can lay the blame for non return on Headteachers. I am livid beyond words. How many more u turns will there be from this totally inadequate bunch. They have at least proved they couldn’t run a kindergarten let alone a country and we have to trust them for the next four years - heaven help us because they won’t. This morning I am beyond words. Next U turn will obviously be Priti Patel's crazy quarantine plan (which I've heard was another Cummings idea). Even Patel is now trying to distance herself from it! 'Home Secretary Priti Patel insisted the Government's proposal to quarantine overseas visitors is 'not my plan'. I think we might therefore be able to conclude whose plan it was. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8399991/Oblivious-Swiss-tourist-says-ILL-prepares-busy-Tube.htmlI think we all can guess that most of this is Cummings because the rest of them don’t seem to have a brain cell between them. That’s why they didn’t have the guts to sack him even though he made a laughing stock of the rest of us. Still never mind the perfect job awaits them all - they all have the gutless and spineless qualifications to run the EFL. |
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Post by northwestman on Jun 9, 2020 10:40:07 GMT 1
Just done a bit of research and yes perhaps we should put right this historic wrong and remove the statue. Problem is to put the wrong right we’d have to refund the £273 million he stole (£31 Billion now) to India Thoughts? Interesting article on Robert Clive from the Star: www.shropshirestar.com/news/features/2020/06/08/does-robert-clive-really-deserve-pride-of-place-in-shrewsbury/'His Shrewsbury statue has suffered occasional indignities over the years, and in 2001 there was a design study which said he was "out of scale" with The Square and suggested moving him to a "more intimate and contemplative space." Nothing came of it, but if the fate of Colston proves the inspiration, that more intimate and contemplative space might prove the bottom of the River Severn'. |
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