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Post by mattmw on Oct 20, 2021 19:15:02 GMT 1
After watching the Downing Street briefing I'm getting nostalgic for the heady days of Matt Hancock as Health Secretary.
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Post by Valerioch on Oct 20, 2021 19:15:31 GMT 1
Just got back from Europe and can assure anyone claiming Spain has more restrictions than us is very wrong, and has been swallowing a pack of nonsense
Just look at Atletico’s stadium yesterday too
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2021 19:24:18 GMT 1
The Bringing Badnews Corporation. They have been shocking for doom and gloom for months, not on their own mind. FFS what part of "we need to get on with it" dont they understand. 🤬 Daily Mail is even worse. Revels in producing bad news. And who can forget the Express’s annual “6foot of snow to bury britain” front pages? But oh no! Doom and gloom bbc!👍
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2021 19:25:32 GMT 1
Oh no! The media are coming! Run for your lives!!!
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Post by venceremos on Oct 20, 2021 19:30:09 GMT 1
It's funny how we excuse the thousands of dead and long Covid sufferers ("unprecedented", government doing its best etc), yet jump on the experts if their forecasts aren't as accurate as we think they should be. They're not "so called experts", they're experts - by qualification and experience. Who knows more? Certainly none of the chumps writing ignorant columns in newspapers or spewing nonsense on social media. The scientists and medics haven't faced Covid-19 before, so they haven't got the data on which to model the trend for this outbreak as accurately as we (or they) would like. But to suggest we should ignore them because the numbers aren't as high as the worst predictions is dangerous nonsense. The numbers of UK deaths and infections are much higher than anywhere else in Europe, but Europe isn't in lockdown. There are many simple measures that we could take here, that have continued to be taken in Europe, and that are far short of lockdown. Why aren't we doing that? If you insist on ignoring people who know what they're talking about and prefer to listen to wishful thinkers, you could at least compare the numbers here with the rest of Europe, and compare the lax attitude here with the precautions still being taken in Europe. Watching and hoping things can be normal isn't a policy. Another 179 dead people today, another 49,000 infections - and the weather's not even begun to get cold yet. There's a few reasons why I've said so called experts (and done so a few times), I think I've said them before on this thread so don't want to bore people again but in short, I think the press give too much attention to people who aren't experts in their field (this applies to people who are anti restrictions too) and I get frustrated by doomsday models being used to justify peoples recommendations. Let's not forget that the current figures are still below the best case scenario that was modelled as a result of restrictions being lifted. I'm not ignoring the current situation, I'm just pointing out that it's not as bad as even the Health Minister predicted it could be 3 months ago, yet somehow the situation is out of control in some peoples eyes. As for why aren't we doing what Europe are doing, I'm assuming it comes back to the gov't deciding to remove restrictions and in their view the situation is in line with what they were expecting so therefore they do not need to reverse any decision. I don't know who you have in mind when you say 'so called experts', but the best case scenarios I was reading months ago were much better than the current numbers. If you're suggesting we're now doing better than the best case scenarios were modelling, I'll have a pint of that too, please. Your second paragraph contradicts itself. You say the Health Minister predicted three months ago that we'd be doing worse than we are, but then say the situation is in line with what the government expected - which is it? But the inescapable truth remains. The UK is doing much worse than the rest of Europe; we're behind on vaccinations, our death rate is much higher and our case numbers are much higher. Yet those better performing European countries are not in lockdown. So why don't we try to emulate them instead of wasting time saying this is better than 'so called experts' predicted and settling for something this bad?
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Post by venceremos on Oct 20, 2021 19:33:47 GMT 1
Valerioch - the expert. I’ve never claimed to be an expert I have a different opinion to you and Pilch. Said opinion hasn’t changed despite the media upping the stakes in the last week The numbers are what they are and, frankly, your and my opinions don't matter. You can pretend it's the media 'upping the stakes' but, unless you're claiming - with evidence - that the numbers are wrong, the situation is much worse than it was when you were so dismissive, even if you're still as dismissive.
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Post by venceremos on Oct 20, 2021 19:36:23 GMT 1
So the press conference was just a bit of scaremongering with no new information or instruction. If health experts want restrictions imposing and the government don’t, why don’t they fight it out behind closed doors, away from the media and stop pulling the public in every direction. Because it's the media's job to report the facts - and some elements still do that very well - and some of us prefer to try to be informed citizens. If you want to bury your head in the sand, don't watch or listen.
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Post by Valerioch on Oct 20, 2021 19:37:16 GMT 1
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Post by venceremos on Oct 20, 2021 19:38:10 GMT 1
Not just the BBC who don’t understand it evidently The BBC have done a survey which reported the 48% of 20 to 35 year olds did not want to hear news they didn't agree with and resented the BBC for broadcasting it. Hmm, seems there are a few people on here pretending to be under 35.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Oct 20, 2021 19:42:11 GMT 1
The Bringing Badnews Corporation. They have been shocking for doom and gloom for months, not on their own mind. FFS what part of "we need to get on with it" dont they understand. 🤬 And don’t forget that howwible Savid Javid being all doom and gloom warning of 100,000 cases a day. Doesn’t he know we only want to hear good news about sunlit uplands and stuff?? 👍 They were talking 100,000 cases a day back in the summer. It never happened. We are still only half way there now. But then I'm a "glass half full" person.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Oct 20, 2021 19:46:01 GMT 1
So the press conference was just a bit of scaremongering with no new information or instruction. If health experts want restrictions imposing and the government don’t, why don’t they fight it out behind closed doors, away from the media and stop pulling the public in every direction. Because it's the media's job to report the facts - and some elements still do that very well - and some of us prefer to try to be informed citizens. If you want to bury your head in the sand, don't watch or listen. "Medias job to report facts". 😂😂😂 Well whatever reports you want to beleive in there will always be another part of it that reports differently.
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Post by davycrockett on Oct 20, 2021 20:04:46 GMT 1
No surprise to see the BBC website’s lead article has the headline ‘Bring back Covid rules as cases rise - NHS chiefs’. The Bringing Badnews Corporation. They have been shocking for doom and gloom for months, not on their own mind. FFS what part of "we need to get on with it" dont they understand. 🤬 Perhaps they're trying to save people's lives?
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Post by Valerioch on Oct 20, 2021 20:11:00 GMT 1
The Bringing Badnews Corporation. They have been shocking for doom and gloom for months, not on their own mind. FFS what part of "we need to get on with it" dont they understand. 🤬 Perhaps they're trying to save people's lives? I’m sorry, but there is a very easy way to save 99% of lives, and it does not include one single restriction. It involves two simple jabs www.bbc.com/news/health-58545548
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Post by davycrockett on Oct 20, 2021 20:13:11 GMT 1
And don’t forget that howwible Savid Javid being all doom and gloom warning of 100,000 cases a day. Doesn’t he know we only want to hear good news about sunlit uplands and stuff?? 👍 They were talking 100,000 cases a day back in the summer. It never happened. We are still only half way there now. But then I'm a "glass half full" person. 100000.00 a day and around 50 deaths were upto 50000 with 250 deaths whoopee
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Post by northwestman on Oct 20, 2021 20:13:53 GMT 1
'Rather than fill up, hospitals were emptying fast with 43 per cent of inpatient beds and 42 per cent of ventilator units unused at the 12 April peak of the Covid crisis'. A rather interesting statistic. Presumably, the unused beds had been earlier allocated to individuals subsequently dumped into the care homes in order to free up space.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2021 20:22:23 GMT 1
And don’t forget that howwible Savid Javid being all doom and gloom warning of 100,000 cases a day. Doesn’t he know we only want to hear good news about sunlit uplands and stuff?? 👍 They were talking 100,000 cases a day back in the summer. It never happened. We are still only half way there now. But then I'm a "glass half full" person. I’m a “don’t like putting people in body bags” kinda person👍
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2021 20:43:12 GMT 1
Funny how your scepticism about the media disappears when it suits. I'm sure The Spectator's pseudonymous 'gossip columnist' is the ultimate authority on this and is in no way pursuing the rag's right wing agenda!
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Post by Valerioch on Oct 20, 2021 20:48:20 GMT 1
Funny how your scepticism about the media disappears when it suits. I'm sure The Spectator's pseudonymous 'gossip columnist' is the ultimate authority on this and is in no way pursuing the rag's right wing agenda! Absolute drivel. All I’ve said is they are ramping up the rhetoric again this week That link is based on factual data and graphs “experts” provided
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Post by mattmw on Oct 20, 2021 21:05:39 GMT 1
'Rather than fill up, hospitals were emptying fast with 43 per cent of inpatient beds and 42 per cent of ventilator units unused at the 12 April peak of the Covid crisis'. A rather interesting statistic. Presumably, the unused beds had been earlier allocated to individuals subsequently dumped into the care homes in order to free up space. That stat is more down to the fact that the vast majority of elective surgery and none urgent appointments had been cancelled with staff resources pushed into critical care wards. This Nuffield article explains the situation pretty well. www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/hospital-bed-occupancy#backgroundThe Spectator article is a little wide of the mark to be honest as generally its considered that round about 85% bed occupacy is the safe rate at which hospitals can operate, so suggesting hospitals have 5.5% bed occupancy is actually just highlighting how under pressure the system is. From a service planning point of view is also critical care beds that are one of the key statistics for looking at how much capacity there is in the system. Its those beds that deal with the really life threatening conditions, and in some hospitals covid patients are making up about 17% of patients in those beds, which has an impact on how many other patients can be treated at any given time. once people can't access those beds thats when death rates increase rapidly. As we saw with the nightingale hospitals last year, its also not overly helpful to have beds available, if there are no staff to treat the patients in them.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2021 21:07:22 GMT 1
Funny how your scepticism about the media disappears when it suits. I'm sure The Spectator's pseudonymous 'gossip columnist' is the ultimate authority on this and is in no way pursuing the rag's right wing agenda! Absolute drivel. All I’ve said is they are ramping up the rhetoric again this week That link is based on factual data and graphs “experts” provided Maybe rhetoric is directly proportional to deaths and hospitalisations?
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Post by Valerioch on Oct 20, 2021 21:20:33 GMT 1
Absolute drivel. All I’ve said is they are ramping up the rhetoric again this week That link is based on factual data and graphs “experts” provided Maybe rhetoric is directly proportional to deaths and hospitalisations? But as the stats all show, non-vaccination is what’s directly proportional to deaths and hospitalisations, and I’m sorry (actually no I’m not) but I couldn’t give a flying fig about anyone who’s willingly turned the jab down, getting ill or worse. Those I have immense sympathy for are those who can’t have a jab/it has reduced effect for, and NHS workers and care workers, having to deal with these selfish pillocks, and the millions of livelihoods that will soon be trashed again
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2021 21:38:23 GMT 1
I’m sorry (actually no I’m not) but I couldn’t give a flying fig about anyone who’s willingly turned the jab down, getting ill or worse.
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Post by Valerioch on Oct 20, 2021 21:49:40 GMT 1
I’m sorry (actually no I’m not) but I couldn’t give a flying fig about anyone who’s willingly turned the jab down, getting ill or worse. What’s your point? They don’t care about anyone else, that much is evident. Trashing millions of livelihoods if we get restrictions back because of their inaction, trashing thousands of cancer appointments, trashing thousands of routine operations, trashing people’s mental health. The list is endless I won’t be playing the holier than thou card and you can cut out select parts of my posts to make yourself feel the better person all you like
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2021 22:00:33 GMT 1
Funny how your scepticism about the media disappears when it suits. I'm sure The Spectator's pseudonymous 'gossip columnist' is the ultimate authority on this and is in no way pursuing the rag's right wing agenda! Absolute drivel. All I’ve said is they are ramping up the rhetoric again this week That link is based on factual data and graphs “experts” provided No, it's cherry picking stats and divorcing them from the context of elective treatment and surgery being cancelled and capacity being increased. Neither does it give any specific stats for critical care. It's a purely agenda driven piece.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Oct 20, 2021 22:14:40 GMT 1
To back up the point about NHS staffing my daughters friend who is a surgeon has been redeployed to A&E and his operation list suspended.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Oct 20, 2021 22:44:42 GMT 1
Perhaps they're trying to save people's lives? I’m sorry, but there is a very easy way to save 99% of lives, and it does not include one single restriction. It involves two simple jabs www.bbc.com/news/health-58545548Totally agree. Hopefully those of us who have had the jabs have done their bit for the greater population wont have to suffer for the more stupid amongst us who wont do it. I'd be REALLY Pd off if we all have to suffer more restrictions due to the selfish element of society. Hopefully if it overcame to that there would be major recriminations. As for the BBC news item, it's far better than a lot of theirs.
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 20, 2021 23:42:48 GMT 1
Government now setting the vaccinated againsr the unvaccinated. Government resisting masks and working from home. probably until it's too late again. Of course, the Tories get a lot of donations from companies that lease out the offices and shops in those areas and want to see us commuting in to use them.
There is now another variant of concern, Delta + and winters coming, but the government will do nothing until it's too late. I don't think Boris likes Christmas...
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Post by stfcfan87 on Oct 21, 2021 0:03:54 GMT 1
Government now setting the vaccinated againsr the unvaccinated. Government resisting masks and working from home. probably until it's too late again. Of course, the Tories get a lot of donations from companies that lease out the offices and shops in those areas and want to see us commuting in to use them.
There is now another variant of concern, Delta + and winters coming, but the government will do nothing until it's too late. I don't think Boris likes Christmas...
he seems to like christmas, because he keeps trying to 'save it' at the expense of so many other days in the year!
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Post by SeanBroseley on Oct 21, 2021 1:19:34 GMT 1
An email dated 22nd March 2020 shows Dr Jenny Harries, now Head of Test and Trace, and officials in the Department for Health, discussing the fact that care homes on the ground did not want to take people from hospital without a negative test Instead of listening and implementing testing, the Government asked Dr Jenny Harries to issue statements to reassure worried care home staff ‘it’s safe to accept patients from hospital’. goodlawproject.org/news/they-let-covid-rip-through-care-homes/Murderers.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Oct 21, 2021 1:23:26 GMT 1
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