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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 16, 2020 20:06:28 GMT 1
But the public seem to be easing up! At 07:30 this morning the roads were almost as busy as they used to be - people must be going back to work. Hope it doesn't lead to another spike in cases.
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Post by wakemanender on Apr 16, 2020 22:14:48 GMT 1
But the public seem to be easing up! At 07:30 this morning the roads were almost as busy as they used to be - people must be going back to work. Hope it doesn't lead to another spike in cases. There are more people about and its just not those going back to work. I think the message has got through as was proved over the Easter weekend that it is not acceptable to go to the beach or parks but even in the rural community where I live I have noticed that families are getting together more. There are lots of comings and goings. The Police are much less likely to stop you during the week so people are tending to take a chance. Very annoying and frustrating when you see it going on so close to home and these people have the cheek to do the 8pm clap for the NHS on a Thursday. |
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Post by SeanBroseley on Apr 17, 2020 1:14:49 GMT 1
I found this video quite interesting. It's a week old now but still relevant. link |
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Post by zenfootball2 on Apr 17, 2020 16:19:52 GMT 1
i fail to understand why 15,000 people are still flying into the uk and non are been screened or tested.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2020 16:28:55 GMT 1
But the public seem to be easing up! At 07:30 this morning the roads were almost as busy as they used to be - people must be going back to work. Hope it doesn't lead to another spike in cases. There are more people about and its just not those going back to work. I think the message has got through as was proved over the Easter weekend that it is not acceptable to go to the beach or parks but even in the rural community where I live I have noticed that families are getting together more. There are lots of comings and goings. The Police are much less likely to stop you during the week so people are tending to take a chance. Very annoying and frustrating when you see it going on so close to home and these people have the cheek to do the 8pm clap for the NHS on a Thursday. I've been for a walk this afternoon and to be honest I was surprised by the increased amount of traffic that was about compared to recent weeks. We normally get a peak in the local traffic from 3pm for an hour or so, and this is due to school traffic. But, the local schools are shut so what these comings and goings are about is anyone's guess. |
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Apr 17, 2020 16:44:19 GMT 1
I have to say that when i go for a cycle ride (2 or 3 times a week), a walk and a limited number of drives out for unavoidable work or to supermarket i feel the roads are significantly quieter than i expected them to be.
One of the benefits of the lockdown is just how quiet it is, cant remember being in a queue of traffic for some weeks now, its great.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Apr 17, 2020 21:18:53 GMT 1
i fail to understand why 15,000 people are still flying into the uk and non are been screened or tested. Because the government wants us to get infected - but slowly. There is no other sensible explanation. It certainly isn't oversight. And it could clearly organise two weeks in isolation for anyone coming to the country. That is what New Zealand is doing. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2020 21:45:00 GMT 1
Sean, if that were their intention - and it may be - they simply do not have the control to manage that. The stories that come out of this will be simply incredible.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Apr 17, 2020 21:45:11 GMT 1
Deaths doubling just over every three days. This has been fairly consistent. Due to break 10,000 mark in a week's time at current rates and there seems little that can prevent that. People losing it slightily on twitter that on the basis of one days tally we're diverting from Italy. But we know that a proportion of the people in that 563 are not going to represent the current situation ebcause they will have died some days ago. We are moving in step with Italy. That is bad enough. This is exponential growth for you. Then there is a possibility of a discontinuity potentially caused by the NHS having to put a larger number of cases into the palliative care " do not resusitate" category if the shortage of ventilators hits home, as I think it has now in London. Did people see the letter to patients with pre-existing conditions from their GP in Bridgend? Deaths now doubling at a much slower rate. Clearly the data is only hospital deaths, but that has been the case all the way through. So, despite the large absolute numbers things are getting worse at a slower rate. In the next seven days I think this will become even more apparent and things will be getting worse at an even slower rate. 4th April 708 5th April 621 6th April 439 7th April 786 8th April 938 9th April 881 10th April 980 11th April 917 12th April 737 13th April 717 14th April 778 15th April 761 16th April 861 17th April 847 I don't see the last seven days has significantly changed the trajectory. And given the anecdotal evidence coming from care homes it's clear that we are in severe trouble. This is a deeply disappointing performance. Shaming when you consider what other countries have shown themselves to be capable of. |
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Post by SeanBroseley on Apr 17, 2020 21:48:47 GMT 1
Sean, if that were their intention - and it may be - they simply do not have the control to manage that. The stories that come out of this will be simply incredible. No they don't. They have no control at all. If this carries on then the daily deaths are going to stay stubbornly high. We're basically relying upon the countries that these people are coming from to get on top of their own infections so we import less. And people are coming over from Romania - they won't have a period of quarantine either. It's absolutely shameful what is happening in this country. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2020 21:57:54 GMT 1
I was in a meeting yesterday afternoon with senior national figures including one of the people who make appearance at 5pm every few nights on BBC1.
It covered PPE and testing.
It was genuinely gobsmacking. Will leave it there.
Stay safe folks.
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Post by northwestman on Apr 18, 2020 10:43:20 GMT 1
Evidence from meetings of the scientific advisory group for emergencies (Sage) and the new and emerging respiratory virus threats advisory group (Nervtag) all the way up to mid-March shows clearly that the scientific evidence was, at various times, either confused or delivered to ministers with insufficient clarity. As a result those ministers then made fundamental mistakes, which meant we lost valuable time to prepare for the epidemic, in particular by locking down the country much earlier. To make matters worse, the decision announced on 12 March to abandon community testing and tracing, almost certainly because we no longer had sufficient capacity to do it, has undoubtedly cost a huge number of lives in the UK. Nearly 14,000 have died so far, compared with under 4,000 in Germany – a larger country than us, but one that never stopped testing and tracing. The reality now is that we don’t even know who all the people are who are advising the government, let alone what advice they are giving. www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/17/covid-19-lockdown-exit-strategy-how-to-find-the-safest-path |
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Post by ( you know who from b&a ) on Apr 18, 2020 11:01:21 GMT 1
I was in a meeting yesterday afternoon with senior national figures including one of the people who make appearance at 5pm every few nights on BBC1. It covered PPE and testing. It was genuinely gobsmacking. Will leave it there. Stay safe folks. not the old " I know something but not telling you" chestnut |
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Post by salop27 on Apr 18, 2020 11:19:09 GMT 1
Evidence from meetings of the scientific advisory group for emergencies (Sage) and the new and emerging respiratory virus threats advisory group (Nervtag) all the way up to mid-March shows clearly that the scientific evidence was, at various times, either confused or delivered to ministers with insufficient clarity. As a result those ministers then made fundamental mistakes, which meant we lost valuable time to prepare for the epidemic, in particular by locking down the country much earlier. To make matters worse, the decision announced on 12 March to abandon community testing and tracing, almost certainly because we no longer had sufficient capacity to do it, has undoubtedly cost a huge number of lives in the UK. Nearly 14,000 have died so far, compared with under 4,000 in Germany – a larger country than us, but one that never stopped testing and tracing. The reality now is that we don’t even know who all the people are who are advising the government, let alone what advice they are giving. www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/17/covid-19-lockdown-exit-strategy-how-to-find-the-safest-pathGermany is the pharmaceutical industry capital of the world and used this massive resource brilliantly. Sadly other countries have not had such facilities available. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 14:28:11 GMT 1
i fail to understand why 15,000 people are still flying into the uk and non are been screened or tested. Now I know why I wasn't tested on my return to the UK www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52319575 |
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Post by northwestman on Apr 18, 2020 15:42:20 GMT 1
The World Health Organisation said antibody tests may not help to ease lockdown measures because they do not guarantee immunity. WHO chiefs have warned world leaders against investing too heavily in the tests, which can show whether a person has already had coronavirus. Britain and many countries had hoped antibody tests would allow those who can prove they have had the virus – and therefore thought to be immune – to return to work and stabilise the economy. But Dr Mike Ryan, executive director of WHO's emergencies programme, said there was limited evidence that coronavirus survivors were guaranteed future immunity to the disease. This means those who have already had the virus could be at risk of being reinfected. Well, that's a bit too late for the UK, who have already p**sed away £16 million on purchasing 2 million useless Chinese antibody tests. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8229843/Britain-paid-16m-coronavirus-antibody-tests-China-DONT-WORK.html |
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Post by zenfootball2 on Apr 18, 2020 16:37:42 GMT 1
i fail to understand why 15,000 people are still flying into the uk and non are been screened or tested. Now I know why I wasn't tested on my return to the UK www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52319575i understand hte importance of cargo and of stranded people coming home or people who us the london hub to fly onto another weuropea country but i dont understand why no one gets tested. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2020 16:51:47 GMT 1
i understand hte importance of cargo and of stranded people coming home or people who us the london hub to fly onto another weuropea country but i dont understand why no one gets tested. From the article: "Public Health England says checks are not effective, because some people carrying Covid-19 do not have a temperature and some show no symptoms at all. This may not remain the case forever. Heathrow's boss says that at some point, tests might have to become the norm in airports around the world, partly so passengers are not confused by inconsistent approaches". |
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Post by zenfootball2 on Apr 18, 2020 21:04:37 GMT 1
i understand hte importance of cargo and of stranded people coming home or people who us the london hub to fly onto another weuropea country but i dont understand why no one gets tested. From the article: "Public Health England says checks are not effective, because some people carrying Covid-19 do not have a temperature and some show no symptoms at all. This may not remain the case forever. Heathrow's boss says that at some point, tests might have to become the norm in airports around the world, partly so passengers are not confused by inconsistent approaches". they do and this is why i dont agree with them the iceland research showed that nearly 50% were asymptamatic , This is why the WHO are saying to test as many people as possible, taiwan has developed a test that showes results in 12 minutes with no requirment to send samples to labs this will soon enter productions . taiwan have been testing large numbers and regularly screening citizens htey are also testing people to see if they have antibodies that show they have had the cornoavirus . so if evryone is tested at the airport you may discover many people are infectious and should go into self isolation , new Zealand enforced that all arrivals whent into monitored self isolation and they will be starting a phased reduction of there lockdown in a weeks time. taiwan had 398 cases and six death's from the cornoavirus. so you have the uk's approach and the two countrys who took a very different approach |
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Post by salop27 on Apr 18, 2020 21:22:03 GMT 1
The best corona virus test is only 70% accurate and that's if its carried out correctly.
New Zealand did well keeping people isolated for 2 weeks as its more reliable way of stopping any infections. We have to remember though New Zealand is a country bigger then ours but with 60 million less people living in it.
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 18, 2020 21:24:42 GMT 1
If testing may not be effective then surely any stranded people brought back to this country should, as in New Zealand, go into enforced monitored self isolation?
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Post by zenfootball2 on Apr 18, 2020 22:06:23 GMT 1
The best corona virus test is only 70% accurate and that's if its carried out correctly. New Zealand did well keeping people isolated for 2 weeks as its more reliable way of stopping any infections. We have to remember though New Zealand is a country bigger then ours but with 60 million less people living in it. which is why they need to test people more than once ,new zealand is roughly the size of the uk and ireland so with a small population and a large country they have done a very good job ,New Zealand stoped flights from china in early february . New Zealands population is 4.8 million , scotland 5.4 , new zealand deaths 11 scotland 893 and rising wales population 3.3 million deaths 534 and rising. in a weeks time New Zealand will start a phased reduction in there lockdown. |
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Post by northwestman on Apr 19, 2020 8:05:14 GMT 1
www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1270841/boris-johnson-coronavirus-uk-news-cobra-meetings-covid19-government-responseBoris Johnson skipped five cobra meetings on the coronavirus outbreak at the start of the year, before the World Health Organization declared COVID-19 a pandemic. The Prime Minister missed a number of emergency meetings, which is attended by leading ministers, intelligence chiefs and other experts, in January and February just as the outbreak started to worsen, the Sunday Times reports. Mr Johnson was absent from one meeting, yet found the time to join in a lunar new year dragon eyes ritual to celebrate the Chinese New Year. The other meetings were understood to have been skipped in order to prioritise his personal life and other domestic issues, such as Brexit and his cabinet reshuffle. The Prime Minister then spent two weeks of the half-term break with his pregnant fiancée, Carrie Symonds. The first cobra meeting attended by Mr Johnson was on March 2, when the outbreak had already started to grip the country.
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Post by northwestman on Apr 19, 2020 9:32:31 GMT 1
A 'herd immunity' strategy was baked into Britain's official pandemic plans, while South East Asian nations always intended to contain a new virus, analysis by the Telegraph has shown.
Britain assumed a deadly virus would cripple the NHS and kill up 750,000 people during a secret cross-government exercise held in 2016 to test preparedness for an outbreak, officials have admitted.
The assumption a new virus could not be contained is also explicitly stated in the governments pandemic strategy documents.
"We discussed the levels of herd immunity as part of that scenario," a Whitehall source said.
Meanwhile nations including Singapore and South Korea drew up detailed plans to prevent a virus spreading, with mass testing, contact tracing and huge stockpiles of protective equipment.
It comes as the government formally refused a request for the release of the findings of the 2016 pandemic drill, code-named Exercise Cygnus, under the terms of the Freedom of Information Act.
A senior Whitehall official involved in drawing up Cygnus, a major test of this country’s pandemic preparations held in October 2016, admitted lessons from other countries had been “entirely ignored”.
“Everything we planned for was based on the idea that a disease would kill lots and lots of people,” the official told the Telegraph.
“We didn’t spend a lot of time exploring how we could prevent it in the first place. Instead we looked at how we could build up mortuary space and intensive care beds after it had already spread.
“I can’t remember that we ever discussed what they were doing in South Korea and places like that. It simply wasn’t on our radar. We were sort of ploughing our own furrow.
“Given the current lack of testing capacity and PPE, you could say that was a mistake."
Daily Telegraph.
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Post by shrewder on Apr 19, 2020 10:24:50 GMT 1
A 'herd immunity' strategy was baked into Britain's official pandemic plans, while South East Asian nations always intended to contain a new virus, analysis by the Telegraph has shown. Britain assumed a deadly virus would cripple the NHS and kill up 750,000 people during a secret cross-government exercise held in 2016 to test preparedness for an outbreak, officials have admitted. The assumption a new virus could not be contained is also explicitly stated in the governments pandemic strategy documents. "We discussed the levels of herd immunity as part of that scenario," a Whitehall source said. Meanwhile nations including Singapore and South Korea drew up detailed plans to prevent a virus spreading, with mass testing, contact tracing and huge stockpiles of protective equipment. It comes as the government formally refused a request for the release of the findings of the 2016 pandemic drill, code-named Exercise Cygnus, under the terms of the Freedom of Information Act. A senior Whitehall official involved in drawing up Cygnus, a major test of this country’s pandemic preparations held in October 2016, admitted lessons from other countries had been “entirely ignored”. “Everything we planned for was based on the idea that a disease would kill lots and lots of people,” the official told the Telegraph. “We didn’t spend a lot of time exploring how we could prevent it in the first place. Instead we looked at how we could build up mortuary space and intensive care beds after it had already spread. “I can’t remember that we ever discussed what they were doing in South Korea and places like that. It simply wasn’t on our radar. We were sort of ploughing our own furrow. “Given the current lack of testing capacity and PPE, you could say that was a mistake." Daily Telegraph. Presumably this is confirmed by how quickly the Nightingale hospitals have been constructed. Clearly as lockdown is relaxed it appears that these hospitals are there ready for any increase in cases. |
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Post by northwestman on Apr 19, 2020 10:49:24 GMT 1
www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/19/michael-gove-fails-to-deny-pm-missed-five-coronavirus-cobra-meetingsMichael Gove has declined to deny that Boris Johnson missed five consecutive emergency meetings in the build-up to the coronavirus crisis, or that the UK shipped protective equipment to China in February, as the government faced intense pressure over its response to the pandemic. Pressed on a series of allegations about delays and failings as the virus started to spread from China, detailed in the Sunday Times, Gove said that some elements of the story were “slightly off-beam”, but repeatedly declined to say which. Speaking after Gove on Sky’s Sophy Ridge on Sunday show, Labour’s Jonathan Ashworth, the shadow health secretary, said he had given “possibly the weakest rebuttal of a detailed expose in British political history”. Ridge asked Gove, who holds the cabinet role of chancellor of the duchy of Lancaster, three times whether it was true the UK sent hundreds of thousands of items of personal protective equipment (PPE) to China during February. A shortage of PPE for NHS and care home staff has been a repeated criticism of the UK response to coronavirus, with the Guardian revealing on Friday that NHS staff had been told to wear plastic aprons if stocks of protective gowns ran out. Asked about this, Gove said: “There are one or two aspects of the Sunday Times report that are slightly off-beam, but the most important thing to stress is that the fight against the coronavirus is an international effort.” Asked what was incorrect about the story, Gove said: “I won’t go through, here, a point-by-point rebuttal of all the things in the Sunday Times story that are a little bit off-beam, but that will be done later.” Gove was also asked about the claim in the Sunday Times that Johnson missed five meetings of the government’s Cobra emergency committee during a period in February where he spent an entire parliamentary recess out of sight at his official country retreat of Chequers. Prime ministers do not always chair Cobra meetings, but generally do during a crisis. The Sunday Times quoted one unnamed senior adviser as saying Johnson “didn’t work weekends”, and “there was a real sense that he didn’t do urgent crisis planning”. Gove rejected the charge of a lack of leadership, but did not explicitly deny that Johnson had missed the Cobra meetings.
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Post by camdenshrew on Apr 19, 2020 11:16:01 GMT 1
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Post by staffordshrew on Apr 19, 2020 13:18:55 GMT 1
So far, not so good. But there is a long way to go and we have a returning PM who has had some time to think about the legacy he will leave behind. It could be good, I am sure he will want to be thought of well.
Less power for Cummings, kick Gove into some obscure job, reassess if Hancock is any good, see if there might be room to bring back heavyweights like Phillip Hammond. Get his party, and the country, working as one. Can he do it?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2020 13:21:48 GMT 1
For those that are taking the Times article as fact should listen to Javid Nawaz on LBC who brings up some very good points.
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Post by shrewder on Apr 19, 2020 13:31:00 GMT 1
All these questions about who did what etc pale into insignificance when you consider the fact pointed out by scientist working on finding a vaccine. He was interviewed on Sky News this morning and cautioned us, that yes they are working on a vaccine but that no one has as yet ever managed to produce a vaccine for a covid type virus.
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